Rowing Machine Strength or Cardio?

It's a cardio exercise (of course requires some strength, but strength that you can develop by just rowing if you want).  Clearly, changing your hand positions is going to work different muscles on that portion of the stroke.  But a rowing machine, used properly, will mostly target your legs and your lats (while, of course, engaging your core to transfer everything to the 'oar').  If you are using a lot of arm pull, you are likely not enaging your core and lats properly.  Doing too much of that can lead to back injuries.

I agree. Really anything over 20 or so reps is conditioning more than strength training. For cardio I guess you need to do it at a high enough heart rate for an extended period (15 or 20 min minimum).

So true.

And might I ask: 
Do you typically utilize more of the arm pull after the legs are almost fully extended? (As if it was emphasized as the last motion..?)

- hope that makes sense.

I started to type it out, but realized you'd be better off reading this description:

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/sprack.htm

It's more focused for on-the-water where form becomes much more important than on a machine, but the power application principles are the same.

Neither the rowing machine is a torture device LOL! 

I have a C2 and love it.  I feel it is more cardio than strength if compared to straight up weight lifting.  In 2000 I was in a car accident that injured my upper back between the sholder blades and on long runs it will get sore.  If I row a couple times a week it really helps with this. 

I look at it like this,  biking is endurance but most bikers have Strong legs so why wouldn't Rowing do the same for the upper body.

We need to send Nebz a PM get his input on this he is a big rower and a rowing coach. 

oh man, here we go!

Ok, first, rowing is an aerobic activity! There is a small strength component to it but by and far what you need you get through actually doing it (think swimming).

It is one of the most insanely painful things you can do if you do it right and push yourself, but is also great in that it A- gets pretty much a total body workout, and B- has so many diff types of workouts, high and low stroke ratings, short intervals and longer intervals on long and short rest, steady state, explosive starts, etc.

Its really like a huge mix of swimming and cycling training.

For those of you that have the tech side down a bit, if you want to see what rowing really feels like, go set your erg (rowing machine) for 2000m, and see what you can do.

just for ref some middle of the line times (most coaches pay attention to ave 500m split, this is like your 100m pace swimming).

Girls:
High school novice: 2:00
High school varisty: 1:55
College lightweight (under 130lbs) 1:54-58
College Open weight: 1:42-148
Elite Lightweight: (under 130)1:47ish
Elite open weight: 1:38-1:42

Guys:
High school novice: 1:52
High school varsity: 1:40-45
College lightweight (under 150) 1:37-1:40ish
College open weight: 1:32-35
Elite lightweight (under 150) 1:30-35
Elite open weight: 1:25-1:30

All I can say is Damn!   I did a steady state row Tuesday for 30 minutes and covered 6200 M.  Rowing at a pace below 2:00 is insane hard.  when I was paying attention I think my average pace was around the 2:21 range. So I got novice high school girls whoopin me LOL!!

Any tips Newbz? I have a C-2 machine and I row with it set between 3 & 4 like the instructions suggest. 

Not sure where my text went the first time?  Anyway:

It's just like training for any other sport if you want to improve.  Do it more.  Sometimes, do it hard--make it hurt.  There's no magic to it.

Oh, and back in my day (can't belive I can use that phrase now), we had to do 2500m pieces.  None of this 'soft' 2000m. 

I think my best was right around 7:40.

Edited by JohnnyKay 2010-03-26 9:36 AM

First question: Is it a Concept 2 or 2e, or some other brand?

Some things to think about....

1. There should a fluid transition between legs, torso, and back (and then reverse).

2. Is you chain going straight back and forth? (Versus having to bounce up and down to avoid your knees, an easy way to see someone doing it wrong.)

3. If you pull hard, can you feel your butt starting to get light in the seat --- like a waterskier about to stand?

You may not want to try out for a Crew anytime soon, but you also don't want to get injured either.

Yes it is a Concept 2

1. I'm pretty smooth I don't get all crazy I try and hold form over the entire workout.

2. Chain is smooth no bounce.

3. My azz is firmly planted on the seat at all times(probably cause it is big).  You would have to yank the hell out of it to get out to the seat I'm guessing.

I have no desire to join a crew just do it for Cross training and variety But you are correct I don't want to get hurt either.  I suspect Mr K is correct that like all sports it takes time to build up. When we first got it a month or so ago I rowed about 5000 M in 30 minuits now I can do 6200 in that same time. 

hahahahaha. I am coaching my first scholastic team this year (single high school vs club high school), and they actually race 1500. I used to joke about how thats a wimp race compared to 2000 (or 2500), but after trying one, they all suck hardcore.

Thats a solid 2500m time! I luckily missed 2500m races by a bit, and got to stick with 2k, best time there was 6:18.


as i said before, rowing is sort of between swimming and cycling in the training style. intervals most days, but not as much as swimming, and including a bit more distance than swimming.

The two things you can change about the actual interval (outside of time/distance), is the power output, and stroke rating. If you are never going to race, i would say there is really no need to go over 26 strokes per min. working in the 20-26 range will get your more than enough cross training without getting you into the range of really worrying about hurting yourself.

Splits are normally based off a % of 2k pace, or a longer distance test pace (4/5/6k). If you have both splits to work from that makes it even easier to nail it down.

If you are just using it for fitness, things like 2x20 min, 2-4x10 min, 30 min steady, 5x1000m so on and so forth. changing the stroke rate and rest will help determine how hard you can push, or how its going to hurt.

Who are you coaching? 

I raced 1500 in HS as well.  Even then our tests were equivalent to 2500m.  The actual measurement was in miles (5, I think) as we just had an analog odometer and a spedometer dial.  The fun part was trying to 'pin' the dial at the maximum readable speed during sprint efforts. 

Sacred Heart in philly right now, was with the university of Notre Dame last year.
Interviewed to coach with the UPenn ltwts but was not able to move here in time for that to work.

I've been coaching seriously for about 3 years now and am having a blast thus far. top boats have been winning every single race i have entered them in and the tri coaching/racing stuff + what i learned rowing has carried over VERY well.



To get this back on track, you really should not feel like you are coming off the seat, you *CAN* push yourself up that way but you should not feel like you are coming off the seat. even during starts (which as a non-rower you really should not be doing anyway) you never really come close to leavinf the seat.

You want a harder workout, pull harder, and let the stroke rating come up with the pressure.
You'll soon find one of hte single most painful sporting events out there.

Fair enough, I was thinking more of the drill we used to get that feeling so that we were using our body as one unit.

The way it reads as I wrote it, I am saying to do that regularly.

My bad.

i agree, we used to use the standup drill a lot to show novices how much the legs are put into it. on a rowing machine though that can cause, um, a pitch change is ones voice if you miss the seat?!

We used to do it static on an old C2 (OK, they were not THAT old when I rowed) where you could put a screwdriver to stop the fly wheel at the catch and 3 other spots in your pull.

We would then pull against the resistance until our butts started to lift.

When we would train for real, we were just to re-create the sensation... not really lift off the seat.

oh man, in the 10 years i have been involved in the sport i have not seen an erg you could do that too;-)

guess that shows how young i am!

x 2 on SawFish's quote "Rowing at a pace below 2:00 is insane hard". I warmed up on a C2 in my local gym today and finished in just over 8 mins.  I started out trying to average 1:50 /500M pace and I thought my heart was going to explode. I'm not even close to newbz's charts. Back in my school days I always heard the rowers were the fittest athletes in the school. Now I believe it!  I'll definitely encorporate rowing as part of my cardio training and hope it strengthens my swimming muscles a bit too.

Oh...the wonderful erg machine. I saw enough of those things during winter training during my years of college rowing to never see one every again.

It pains me nearly every time I see someone on one at the gym, as 95% of people erg the wrong way. The recovery phase of the stroke should be longer than the drive with 'hands away' before the legs engage, but most people rush up the slide and have to yank their hands over their knees. Done correctly, it's a great low-impact workout. I'm sure you can find some good youtube videos that show the correct way to 'stroke.'

As a 'tween' weight - rowed at around 165-170 lbs in a heavyweight boat, but could have gone lightweight - my best 2K was a 6:33. I remember having trash cans next to the ergs for erg tests - I never had to use one, but teammates definitely did.

Edited by natethomas2000 2010-05-15 7:22 PM

hahaha its a nasty sport!!!

I just had a 16 year old girl pull 2:01 for 25 min.

Thanks for the encouragement Nebz!!!  NOT,,,,  LOL!!!! 

i do waht i can;-)

dont worry, they row a LOT more than you do.

That's weird, our coach has us doing rows without using our legs which makes them MUCH harder.