Emilio's Statement on WTC's recent ban of the T1 Water Rover starting Sept 1, 2010

True, however it will be interesting to see if the ban does effect peoples decision to purchase the WR. Would an athlete show up at a non-WTC race with equipment which is non-WTC legal and feel comfortable using it? Would he or she be "that guy using the band wet suit'? I think we'll see how far the influence and perception of WTC stretches across the triathlon racing community.

I agree - it will be interesting to watch if the WTC ban has broad influence or what.

I think regardless of the WTC, the Water Rover is destined for the category of Equipment Only That Guy Would Use, where a certain set of triathletes frown upon its use. Newton running shoes are currently the most obvious equipment in that category, followed by Speedfil water bottles.

Edited by brucemorgan 2010-04-18 11:05 AM

I don't think Newton's have that perception at this point and Newton's never claimed to be the fastest running shoe in the world. The WR is actually marketed as the fastest wet suit in the world.

Is Potts "that guy" cause he uses a Triathlon Bike in non-draft WTC racing but a road bike when ITU racing? of course not.....

What about Speedfil water bottles makes their user "That Guy."

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Edited by PennState 2010-04-18 12:52 PM

On what grounds?

In my completely uninformed opinion, yes, the WR will take a hit ... but will still prove to be ultimately profitable. You know how many newbies are THRILLED with 8mm worth of buoyancy and insulation?

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Edited by PennState 2010-04-18 1:16 PM

Sounds to me that means appeals to the WTC ... not a court system.

x2. A rule appeal perhaps, but that language has nothing to do with legal action. I don't see DS suing WTC over this (nor would DS even have a case, WTC is a private corp and is free to make its own rules)

At any rate, in So Cal I can't imagine that any other racers would be standing on the beach waiting to swim and ridiculing anyone for being "that guy" for wearing a WR.

Bryan does have a point, however. Lots of triathletes out here have goals of doing HIM/IM, if they do not already do them, even if they do more USAT races during the year. Unlikely most folks have the coin to buy two wetsuits for two sets of rules

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*confused look*

What are we talking about here?

I thought I was that guy?

As I see it (and you're welcome to disagree), in a lot of people's opinions (unattributed baseless "fact") both Newtons and Speedfil bottles are way too expensive for the benefit supposedly delivered. When the ROI is crap and people still spend their money, they become That Guy. BTW, I have raced three IMs in Newtons. Which makes me That Guy too.

The list goes on... next up, ceramic bearings.

Speaking as an attorney, I'd first like to say that it is a bit sad that people think that everything can be solved by a lawsuit, and believe it or not, frivolous lawsuits do get thrown out and the plaintiffs that bring them do get sanctioned. However, as Pennstate has graciously admitted, he was not sure what Emilio meant by the term "appeal."

As for whether a lawsuit is likely, I think not. Unless the De Soto company can argue that the existing rules somehow created a "contract" of sorts that the rules regarding equipment would not be changed, and I seriously doubt such argument could be made, there is no case**. I know of no case that has prohibited a private sports organization from changing its rules. The best way for triathletes to voice their objections, should they wish to do so, is to boycott WTC races.

**This is especially true since the rule change was implemented fairly quickly in response to the WR and, in addition, the De Soto company was aware that it was taking somewhat of a risk when it introduced the WR wetsuit. If, for example, every triathlon organization that had a non-draft rule suddenly banned tri bikes, you'd have a very different situation given that tri bikes have been legal for many years and triathletes and manufacturers have come to rely on the fact that tri bikes have been legal for many years.

NOTE: I have nothing against the De Soto company or the WR suit for that matter. In a way I applaud Emilio for taking the time to actually read and understand the rules as opposed to just agreeing with the prevailing belief that wetsuits were limited to 5mm when there was no basis for this in the rules. As someone who was once interested in getting into powerlifting, the advantages of the WR seem relatively minor when compared to the ridiculous bench shirts and squat suits that certain powerlifting federations allow.

Those Newtons are definitely pricey and you're right about the ROI. The benefits of Newtons - encouraging a forefoot strike - can be learned for virtually no cost at all. The benefits of the WR are tougher to get on your own. Sure, a person can get added buoyancy by gaining fat, but that's not exactly going to help on the bike and run.

Sorry to hear about the ban Emilio.  Sadly, I think this will probably be the end of the Water Rover, or it should be as I don't think it will be profitable. 

Seems like you did all the research, checked with all the right people, and they banned it once popular opinion came out.  Sometimes you do all the right things for product research and things still go wrong.  I think some of the negativity about it being too much help and the FINA swimsuit ban probably swayed the decision.

Also I'm not sure what's wrong with Speedfil bottles; they may be sacriledge in a peloton but in triathlon I don't see the functional difference between them and the aerobar mouted bottles.

Desoto is a relatively small company as well (in the big scheme of things).  I would surmise that it wouldn't be in Emilio's best interest to go after the WTC with legal action either.  And like he said, there are thousands of other tris out there that are not WTC run/owned.

I love Desoto equipment and will continue to use their stuff as much as I can.  My old T1 BlackPearl is getting on in years and when I replace it I will definitely be sticking with their product.  But I'll just get what I can afford.  It is not like an extra mm or two of neoprene is going to help ME much in the water.  I'd perhaps be able to move from the bottom 1/5th to the bottom 2/5ths.

And they don't have that stupid meshy thing at the top and don't splash you in the face - nor do they have a "hard" tube sticking out that can get caught on something/poke somebody.  It also holds 40 oz. 

Good points!

The thing I"m curious about is what the individual Race Directors will do.. They could easily say that the are also follow the WTC on the ban for thier racesalso.   maybe only a few follow along this year, then a few more next year, (see where I'm going).  

Example--There is one local RD, who runs a great races, that states he will never have a wetsuit swim, doesn't matter if the temps allow it, He doesn't allow them for his races.   Whether you agree with him or not, It's his race and he is allowed to make the rules for his races.