2nd odd rule I've encountered this year: No breaststroke allowed (Page 4)

furiousferret - 2010-06-09 11:24 PM The problem with this argument here is breastrokers aren't thinking critically about it, since they're being singled out.  Its like illegal immigration, if you have relatives in the country illegally, you really don't have a good opinion on the matter, since there is a lot of bias.  I don't want to get into an argument about immigration, unless you are an illegal immigrant who does the breastroke in tri's 

Its a dangerous stroke, prone to kicking people in the face, slower than the freestyle, and less efficient than freestyle.  99% of the triathlon community who posts sub 2:00/100 times does it in freestyle.  Just learn the stroke, it will help you in the long run.

I'm not being elitist, this is coming from a guy who couldn't swim 12 months ago, and over a 2:30/100 OWS pace.  If I can learn the crawl, anyone can.

 

triswimmer8 - 2010-06-09 3:27 PM

 i love that you said that because that was me... an NCAA div 1 breastroker... and i have seen some of your posting about doing 100s free and happy about your time and i sit here thinking what.. really? i used to train that in breast stroke.  although i was only a 59.7 for the 100 breast in yards

blairrob - 2010-06-09 7:58 PM

You are being elitist. I can't do much of the crawl anymore, but I deserve to be there just as much as you do. Should RD's enforce a rule that low cadence riders aren't allowed because they are slower, or tribikes only? No walkers? You are not thinking critically because singling out folks that don't fit your tight set of parameters is the problem. Get rid of them and next you will want to get rid of another group that you are also are not a part of that might interfere with your perspective of what a race should look like.
   As long as you are being exclusionary the excluded will be in dissent. Your logic is ridiculous in that it assumes the excluded are always biased and therefore their opinions are irrelevant and the majority or the included are always unbiased; e.g. it is the majority that matters. Uh, you wouldn't have voted for Abe than, right?           

blairrob - 2010-06-09 10:58 PM

You are being elitist. I can't do much of the crawl anymore, but I deserve to be there just as much as you do. Should RD's enforce a rule that low cadence riders aren't allowed because they are slower, or tribikes only? No walkers? You are not thinking critically because singling out folks that don't fit your tight set of parameters is the problem. Get rid of them and next you will want to get rid of another group that you are also are not a part of that might interfere with your perspective of what a race should look like.
   As long as you are being exclusionary the excluded will be in dissent. Your logic is ridiculous in that it assumes the excluded are always biased and therefore their opinions are irrelevant and the majority or the included are always unbiased; e.g. it is the majority that matters. Uh, you wouldn't have voted for Abe than, right?           

furiousferret - 2
  
The excluded (breaststrokers) are almost always biased, the other swimmers are too, but not nearly as much.  I'm sure if we gave a non swimmer both sides he probably would understand why breast stroke is not allowed.  No one is out to get you and your plight is nothing like that of the slaves in the 1800's.  We just don't want to get kicked in the face, that's all.  

The fact is people are coming to the conclusion that it is banned because it is perceived that the stroke is dangerous; they are not doing it segregate a group out of spite.  There is a safety reason behind it. The same thing happens with tribikes and some group rides.  You can argue its unfair, but they are not as safe in a pack than a road bike is.
 

pschriver - 2010-06-10 12:44 AM

I think you are totally missing the point of the rule. Slow cyclist and walkers are not dangerous to other participants but someone flailing around with wild kicking in the middle of a group of swimmers half a mile into the middle of a lake or ocean could be dangerous. At least in the RD's opinion. His goal is to put on a safe race for all participants. If they see someone potentially hurting others he has reserved the right to pull them from the race.

blairrob - 2010-06-09 10:06 PM

   As mentioned above, the nature of a competitive event such as triathlon inherently carries some risk, and the risk of a serious injury due to a frogkick is not much more, if any more, significant than that from a scissorkick. In my opinion, I think you're expecting a race to be more safe than is practical, but I also see that in our life in general, eg I believe North Americans in general have gone overboard in their expectation of safety. I guess that makes it a philosophical discussion in the end.        

gerald12 - 2010-06-10 1:26 AM

I would rather be kicked in the face with a scissorkick more so than I would with a frogkick. That frogkick packs a lot more power, at least mine does.  

KCD1974 - 2010-06-10 1:37 AM What if the RD simply asked "slower swimmers" with various strokes to stay out of the "fast lane" and start in the back?  You wouldn't get kicked then....

ron brownlow - 2010-06-08 3:15 PM



Seriously?...You breaststroked?...Just so you could look around?...During Escape From Alcatraz?...

Honestly - get a day boat, maybe take a camera, but not during Escape...

PS - Fight for the 'Ban Breaststroke Appeal'

chayes - 2010-06-08 11:55 PM


I really like this idea.  And not to punish the breaststrokers with other breaststrokers- just because it would make for a smoother race.
Where I live, they allow you to bring a buoy or noodle or whatever you want but you'll be in the last wave.   

AdventureBear - 2010-06-10 3:26 AM Excellent...the NOODLE WAVE

blairrob - 2010-06-09 4:57 PM

That goes just as much for freestylers as it does for  breaststrokers and I see more of the former doing stupid and inconsiderate things in the swim as I do the latter. You're showing a lack of consideration for those of us who do use it. It's a swim, not a crawl. We can do as we choose and we all need to be aware. All of us.

KCD1974 - 2010-06-09 8:52 PM I'm not a strong swimmer (in OWS) and use LOTS of strokes to "make it through" HOWEVER, I'm very careful about where I swim...I stay to the outside of the "fast lane" and look back to make sure no one will swim into me....and I start at the back and outside of the AG group to avoid issues...

I think if more people did that....no one would mind as much...just my two cents.... 

blairrob - 2010-06-10 1:30 AM I did the noodle wave once and spent the next 6 months in the joint.

AdventureBear - 2010-06-10 2:16 AM If you're interested (probably not), here is my swim report from the race. You can think whatever you like of my strategy... ---- Jump from the Hornblower into the moving current of San Francisco Bay right in front of Alcatraz Island. I looked out the back windows of the boat at the island and it was magical. Steep rocky outcrops, seagulls and trees clinging to the cliffside made me feel like it was a scene out of a movie...except it was my own life!!! I was about to escape from Alcatraz! The number of kayak support boats was unbelievable, they were everywhere, but once in the water, you were lucky if you could see one or two at any given time. The course headed to St. Francis Yacht club. Sighting was initially towards some tower that I never found, so I sighted left of Fort Mason. As I got closer, and the current took me out towards the Golden Gate bridge, I had to adjust my sighting to just left of the Palace of Fine Arts, an enormous Golden Dome about 1/4 off the shoreline. My line was pretty decent and it got crowded at the exit as well. The swim itself was marvelous. I had a great time, never got freaked out, the water wasn't too cold, no sharks bit me, no seals investigated, but a flock of pelicans swooped overhead pretty close. There really aren't any words to describe the swim, it was the most amazing thing in the world. I tried to roll over on my back several times to look back at the island, over to the golden gate bridge and to the San Francisco skyline. My sighting was going well, and the only time I really had to sit up/breaststroke was to let other swimmers by who were headed on a different course than I was. Otherwise I was very pleased with my sighting and staying on a fairly straight course while swimming. The water was a nice greenish color and visibility about 5 feet, just enough to see feet in front of me and bodies to eh side so I could avoid getting kicked. Suddenly, the beautiful green color turned into a dark murkey gray...I looked up and fog had enveloped the skyline. I looked for my landmarks again, and even the palace of fine arts had become shrouded in fog. I rolled over onto my back one more time to get a last look at the island, and it was not visible anymore. How cool this was! To be swimming in the bay, totally enveloped in fog, but not so much that I couldn't see the shoreline. Finally the finish was in sight, and the speed of the current was obvious as I cruised past the yacht club at several miles per hour. The feeling of seeing and hearing the crowd as I climbed up onto the sand and the mossy steps was just amazing. I felt like I had finished a marathon. It was truley the pinnacle of my atheletic career up to this point! But...there was more to come...26 more miles of adventure ahead! ----

AdventureBear - 2010-06-09 11:16 PM



If you're interested (probably not), here is my swim report from the race. You can think whatever you like of my strategy...

----
Jump from the Hornblower into the moving current of San Francisco Bay right in front of Alcatraz Island. I looked out the back windows of the boat at the island and it was magical. Steep rocky outcrops, seagulls and trees clinging to the cliffside made me feel like it was a scene out of a movie...except it was my own life!!! I was about to escape from Alcatraz! The number of kayak support boats was unbelievable, they were everywhere, but once in the water, you were lucky if you could see one or two at any given time.

The course headed to St. Francis Yacht club. Sighting was initially towards some tower that I never found, so I sighted left of Fort Mason. As I got closer, and the current took me out towards the Golden Gate bridge, I had to adjust my sighting to just left of the Palace of Fine Arts, an enormous Golden Dome about 1/4 off the shoreline. My line was pretty decent and it got crowded at the exit as well.

The swim itself was marvelous. I had a great time, never got freaked out, the water wasn't too cold, no sharks bit me, no seals investigated, but a flock of pelicans swooped overhead pretty close. There really aren't any words to describe the swim, it was the most amazing thing in the world. I tried to roll over on my back several times to look back at the island, over to the golden gate bridge and to the San Francisco skyline.

My sighting was going well, and the only time I really had to sit up/breaststroke was to let other swimmers by who were headed on a different course than I was. Otherwise I was very pleased with my sighting and staying on a fairly straight course while swimming.

The water was a nice greenish color and visibility about 5 feet, just enough to see feet in front of me and bodies to eh side so I could avoid getting kicked.

Suddenly, the beautiful green color turned into a dark murkey gray...I looked up and fog had enveloped the skyline. I looked for my landmarks again, and even the palace of fine arts had become shrouded in fog. I rolled over onto my back one more time to get a last look at the island, and it was not visible anymore. How cool this was! To be swimming in the bay, totally enveloped in fog, but not so much that I couldn't see the shoreline. Finally the finish was in sight, and the speed of the current was obvious as I cruised past the yacht club at several miles per hour.

The feeling of seeing and hearing the crowd as I climbed up onto the sand and the mossy steps was just amazing. I felt like I had finished a marathon. It was truley the pinnacle of my atheletic career up to this point!

But...there was more to come...26 more miles of adventure ahead!
----