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First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels
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 2010-10-25 8:07 AM |
 1 |  Subject: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero WheelsI am doing IMWA 5 Dec. My first and aiming for 11-12 hours, I have been doing 5.30 on half IMs and training solidly. Basically a 5.40 - 6.00 ride. I have a Felt B12 bike from last year that came with Felt's own alloy slightly aero wheels. I have never used deeper carbon wheels before and want to know if it is worth me renting or buying these. Factors that seem worth considering: The course is pancake flat with some wind in the afternoon. My estimated average speed will be 30-33Km/hr - does aero work at this speed?. I guess I can borrow or rent so money not an issue. I have only changed clinchers before, so will need to learn tubulars. Your thoughts welcome thank you |
| 2010-10-25 8:13 AM in reply to: #3169902 |
| Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels Yes, you will be faster for the same energy put out. The deeper the better as long as you can handle the squirreliness of the front wheel. The more you weigh the deeper the front wheel you can handle in some wind. The wheels will help you out if you go over about 1 MPH. You actually save more time if you're a slower rider than if you're faster. No, you don't need to learn tubulars. Clinchers have gotten to the point where it's a toss up as to which is better and if you're used to clinchers there's no real need to switch. |
| 2010-10-25 8:49 AM in reply to: #3169902 |
Elite 4235    Spring, TX | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels Just to reiterate, aero applies at ALL speeds. There is no minimum speed threshold at which you need to ride in order to benefit from aerodynamics. |
| 2010-10-25 8:55 AM in reply to: #3169902 |
Elite 3060 N Carolina | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels My 2 cents: Rent clinchers. |
| 2010-10-25 10:10 AM in reply to: #3169902 |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels What people often overlook and the reason why I enjoy deep carbon wheels is how stiff they are. I have Zipp 808's (about 81mm deep) for IMWI and yes while they are aero they are also very stiff. You can really feel the difference from the rear wheel when every pedal stroke you take you get so much more out of. I don't know the exact numbers but you can save about 10 watts I believe using 808's which is more power created with the same power output which in turn is energy saved and time saved. So yes they can be faster. |
| 2010-10-26 7:59 AM in reply to: #3170281 |
Member 45 | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels For sure get them...I run 808's with a rear disc cover and they make it feel like whole new bike (in a good way) |
| 2010-10-26 9:09 AM in reply to: #3169902 |
Master 2021 Alpharetta, GA | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels As everyone else has stated, get them, rent them, etc. They will definitely help out. - If you are comfortable with clinchers, I would rent those - Definitely ride them before race day to get used to how that front wheel handles. Well, not just the front wheel but how "they" ride. There is a difference. I have three wheel sets, and each rides different from the others. - Stock wheels - 808/1080 - 808/900 disc |
| 2010-10-26 10:01 AM in reply to: #3169902 |
Champion 11989  Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels Just don't wear an aero helmet unless you can average over 20mph |
| 2010-10-26 12:25 PM in reply to: #3172545 |
Master 2021 Alpharetta, GA | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels mrbbrad - 2010-10-26 11:01 AM Just don't wear an aero helmet unless you can average over 30mph Let me help you with that.  |
| 2010-10-26 5:11 PM in reply to: #3169918 |
Veteran 185 San Diego, Discovered by the Germans in 1904 | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels DanielG - 2010-10-25 6:13 AM .....The wheels will help you out if you go over about 1 MPH. That made me laugh for a few minutes....great way to break it down.  |
| 2010-10-26 6:04 PM in reply to: #3169902 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels They will help but for $xx is saving 5 minutes worth it? Zipp 404s should net me about that much time based on Zipp's website. I own the wheels so I will use them. It is all cost benefit thing for you personally. |
| 2010-10-26 8:34 PM in reply to: #3172545 |
Expert 792 Leicester | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels mrbbrad - 2010-10-26 10:01 AM Just don't wear an aero helmet unless you can average over 20mph If you break this rule will the aero police or the fashion police be after you? |
| 2010-10-27 9:41 AM in reply to: #3174024 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels alex jb - 2010-10-26 9:34 PM mrbbrad - 2010-10-26 10:01 AM Just don't wear an aero helmet unless you can average over 20mph If you break this rule will the aero police or the fashion police be after you? Yes, they will. The fashion police will also be after any man wearing 3/4 length running tights. |
| 2010-10-27 10:52 AM in reply to: #3170281 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels chasingkona - 2010-10-25 11:10 AM What people often overlook and the reason why I enjoy deep carbon wheels is how stiff they are. I have Zipp 808's (about 81mm deep) for IMWI and yes while they are aero they are also very stiff. You can really feel the difference from the rear wheel when every pedal stroke you take you get so much more out of. I don't know the exact numbers but you can save about 10 watts I believe using 808's which is more power created with the same power output which in turn is energy saved and time saved. So yes they can be faster. This is a new one. I don't think it has any basis in fact, but it is a new one. |
| 2010-10-27 11:11 AM in reply to: #3169902 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels I believe it all matters if the carbon aero wheels are red in color.  |
| 2010-10-27 11:17 AM in reply to: #3175121 |
Elite 4235 Spring, TX | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels JohnnyKay - 2010-10-27 10:52 AM chasingkona - 2010-10-25 11:10 AM What people often overlook and the reason why I enjoy deep carbon wheels is how stiff they are. I have Zipp 808's (about 81mm deep) for IMWI and yes while they are aero they are also very stiff. You can really feel the difference from the rear wheel when every pedal stroke you take you get so much more out of. I don't know the exact numbers but you can save about 10 watts I believe using 808's which is more power created with the same power output which in turn is energy saved and time saved. So yes they can be faster. This is a new one. I don't think it has any basis in fact, but it is a new one. Pffft....facts, who needs them? I chuckled when I read that paragraph. I was so thoroughly confused that I couldn't come up with a response. |
| 2010-10-27 11:22 AM in reply to: #3175253 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels AndrewMT - 2010-10-27 12:17 PM JohnnyKay - 2010-10-27 10:52 AM chasingkona - 2010-10-25 11:10 AM What people often overlook and the reason why I enjoy deep carbon wheels is how stiff they are. I have Zipp 808's (about 81mm deep) for IMWI and yes while they are aero they are also very stiff. You can really feel the difference from the rear wheel when every pedal stroke you take you get so much more out of. I don't know the exact numbers but you can save about 10 watts I believe using 808's which is more power created with the same power output which in turn is energy saved and time saved. So yes they can be faster. This is a new one. I don't think it has any basis in fact, but it is a new one. Pffft....facts, who needs them? I chuckled when I read that paragraph. I was so thoroughly confused that I couldn't come up with a response. I believe that you can't get the full benefit of deep carbon aero wheels unless you do flip turns while wearing Vibram Five Fingers. |
| 2010-10-27 3:44 PM in reply to: #3175121 |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels JohnnyKay - 2010-10-27 10:52 AM chasingkona - 2010-10-25 11:10 AM What people often overlook and the reason why I enjoy deep carbon wheels is how stiff they are. I have Zipp 808's (about 81mm deep) for IMWI and yes while they are aero they are also very stiff. You can really feel the difference from the rear wheel when every pedal stroke you take you get so much more out of. I don't know the exact numbers but you can save about 10 watts I believe using 808's which is more power created with the same power output which in turn is energy saved and time saved. So yes they can be faster. This is a new one. I don't think it has any basis in fact, but it is a new one. Let me reword this one...you can save x amount of watts using a deep dish wheel over a stock training wheel. This is done in part by a shorter spoke length...the longer the spoke the more the spoke is vulnerable to bending, and the shorter the spoke is the less bending there is thus more power is transferred per pedal stroke. Hence why disc wheels are so fast |
| 2010-10-28 9:08 AM in reply to: #3176634 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels chasingkona - 2010-10-27 4:44 PM JohnnyKay - 2010-10-27 10:52 AM chasingkona - 2010-10-25 11:10 AM What people often overlook and the reason why I enjoy deep carbon wheels is how stiff they are. I have Zipp 808's (about 81mm deep) for IMWI and yes while they are aero they are also very stiff. You can really feel the difference from the rear wheel when every pedal stroke you take you get so much more out of. I don't know the exact numbers but you can save about 10 watts I believe using 808's which is more power created with the same power output which in turn is energy saved and time saved. So yes they can be faster. This is a new one. I don't think it has any basis in fact, but it is a new one. Let me reword this one...you can save x amount of watts using a deep dish wheel over a stock training wheel. This is done in part by a shorter spoke length...the longer the spoke the more the spoke is vulnerable to bending, and the shorter the spoke is the less bending there is thus more power is transferred per pedal stroke. Hence why disc wheels are so fast Disc wheel are so fast because of their aerodynamics. I understand what you are attempting to imply. I just don't believe that it's true. |
| 2010-10-28 9:14 AM in reply to: #3178481 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels JohnnyKay - 2010-10-28 8:08 AM Disc wheel are so fast because of their aerodynamics. I understand what you are attempting to imply. I just don't believe that it's true. X2, I can't for the life of me recall any wheel manufacturer ever make that specific claim carbon deep rim or disc wheels being stiffer and providing improved power transfer. |
| 2010-10-28 11:35 AM in reply to: #3178526 |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels bryancd - 2010-10-28 7:14 AM JohnnyKay - 2010-10-28 8:08 AM Disc wheel are so fast because of their aerodynamics. X2, I can't for the life of me recall any wheel manufacturer ever make that specific claim carbon deep rim or disc wheels being stiffer and providing improved power transfer.I understand what you are attempting to imply. I just don't believe that it's true. Zipp actually warns (in their gentle way) of the opposite problem. Using the Sub-9 with narrow chainstay bikes can cause it to rub because heavier riders cause enough deflection in the wheel: http://www.zipp.com/wheels/sub-9-disc-tubular Edited by spudone 2010-10-28 11:35 AM |
| 2010-10-28 11:58 AM in reply to: #3178481 |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels JohnnyKay - 2010-10-28 9:08 AM chasingkona - 2010-10-27 4:44 PM JohnnyKay - 2010-10-27 10:52 AM chasingkona - 2010-10-25 11:10 AM What people often overlook and the reason why I enjoy deep carbon wheels is how stiff they are. I have Zipp 808's (about 81mm deep) for IMWI and yes while they are aero they are also very stiff. You can really feel the difference from the rear wheel when every pedal stroke you take you get so much more out of. I don't know the exact numbers but you can save about 10 watts I believe using 808's which is more power created with the same power output which in turn is energy saved and time saved. So yes they can be faster. This is a new one. I don't think it has any basis in fact, but it is a new one. Let me reword this one...you can save x amount of watts using a deep dish wheel over a stock training wheel. This is done in part by a shorter spoke length...the longer the spoke the more the spoke is vulnerable to bending, and the shorter the spoke is the less bending there is thus more power is transferred per pedal stroke. Hence why disc wheels are so fast Disc wheel are so fast because of their aerodynamics. I understand what you are attempting to imply. I just don't believe that it's true. and what I am implying is stated here "...he latest 808 Tubular shows improved lateral stiffness for efficient power transfer and crisp acceleration.". Maybe I am misinterpreting this or explaining it incorrectly with my words, but this is straight from Zipp's website http://www.zipp.com/wheels/808-tubular |
| 2010-10-28 1:23 PM in reply to: #3179764 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels chasingkona - 2010-10-28 12:58 PM JohnnyKay - 2010-10-28 9:08 AM chasingkona - 2010-10-27 4:44 PM JohnnyKay - 2010-10-27 10:52 AM chasingkona - 2010-10-25 11:10 AM What people often overlook and the reason why I enjoy deep carbon wheels is how stiff they are. I have Zipp 808's (about 81mm deep) for IMWI and yes while they are aero they are also very stiff. You can really feel the difference from the rear wheel when every pedal stroke you take you get so much more out of. I don't know the exact numbers but you can save about 10 watts I believe using 808's which is more power created with the same power output which in turn is energy saved and time saved. So yes they can be faster. This is a new one. I don't think it has any basis in fact, but it is a new one. Let me reword this one...you can save x amount of watts using a deep dish wheel over a stock training wheel. This is done in part by a shorter spoke length...the longer the spoke the more the spoke is vulnerable to bending, and the shorter the spoke is the less bending there is thus more power is transferred per pedal stroke. Hence why disc wheels are so fast Disc wheel are so fast because of their aerodynamics. I understand what you are attempting to imply. I just don't believe that it's true. and what I am implying is stated here "...he latest 808 Tubular shows improved lateral stiffness for efficient power transfer and crisp acceleration.". Maybe I am misinterpreting this or explaining it incorrectly with my words, but this is straight from Zipp's website http://www.zipp.com/wheels/808-tubular Cool. Thx. |
| 2010-10-28 1:47 PM in reply to: #3169902 |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels and what I am implying is stated here "...he latest 808 Tubular shows improved lateral stiffness for efficient power transfer and crisp acceleration.". Maybe I am misinterpreting this or explaining it incorrectly with my words, but this is straight from Zipp's website Improved stiffness compared to the previous version of the 808. |
| 2010-10-29 2:19 PM in reply to: #3180373 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: First IM: Will I benefit from Carbon Aero Wheels spudone - 2010-10-28 2:47 PM and what I am implying is stated here "...he latest 808 Tubular shows improved lateral stiffness for efficient power transfer and crisp acceleration.". Maybe I am misinterpreting this or explaining it incorrectly with my words, but this is straight from Zipp's website Improved stiffness compared to the previous version of the 808. Bid they use the carbon equivalent of Viagra? |
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