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2011-03-13 4:14 PM

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Thief River Falls, MN
Subject: Tires make a difference?

I have a question...Do expensive tires make a difference?  Right now I have Continental Ultra Sport's (what came on my bike) clinchers.  Will you be able to tell the difference with a set of higher end tires (GP4000, etc...)?  How much faster? 

Thanks



2011-03-13 6:18 PM
in reply to: #3395812

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?
ryanbike - 2011-03-13 5:14 PM

I have a question...Do expensive tires make a difference?  Right now I have Continental Ultra Sport's (what came on my bike) clinchers.  Will you be able to tell the difference with a set of higher end tires (GP4000, etc...)?  How much faster? 

Thanks

Yes

See this chart http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_old/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev9.pdf

tubes also, latex tubes will roll faster than butyl.

2011-03-13 7:21 PM
in reply to: #3395812

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Casa Grande, Az.
Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?
I don't know what the terrain is like where you live,but, my bike came with the exact same tires and I went out the 1st 2 rides and got flats. I went with the kevlar Gatorskins with some tube liners. As far as speed goes, IMO, a fast tire is worthless if it's flat!
2011-03-14 1:54 AM
in reply to: #3395812


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Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?

I had a bike that came with Conti Ultra Sports and it would have been cheaper upgrading them the day of purchase versus leaving them on.  Never flatted so much as I did on those tires. 

2011-03-14 6:54 AM
in reply to: #3395812

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Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?
ryanbike - 2011-03-13 6:14 PM

I have a question...Do expensive tires make a difference?  Right now I have Continental Ultra Sport's (what came on my bike) clinchers.



A high quality tire will definitely make a difference and the link provided early is a great starting place to find the best tire.

I use Ultrasports on my commuter and have for years but would never use them on a race bike.

Will you be able to tell the difference with a set of higher end tires (GP4000, etc...)?  How much faster? 

Thanks



You probably won't be able to tell the difference on the road although faster tires tend to feel "better."

As for how much faster, an Ultrasport with a butyl tube and Specialized Mondo with latex tube would be about 15W difference; which would mean a difference of about 1.5km/h for a typical triathlete or a savings of about 3 minutes.

Shane
2011-03-22 3:56 PM
in reply to: #3395812

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Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?

I ride Continental GP 4000s and those are the only tires I will ride on.  (Other than my race tubulars) Whether it is mental or not, these tires make a difference in my ride (especially in corners).  So, I believe tires absolutely make a difference.

They are just like car tires.  You get what you pay for.  They are the only thing touching the road, so they better be good.



2011-03-22 4:26 PM
in reply to: #3395812

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Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?
Couldn't justify race wheelset. So, I bought a pair of those Continental GP 4000s everyone's raving about and latex tubes as a consolation.
2011-03-22 6:48 PM
in reply to: #3395812

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Pro
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Bellingham, WA
Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?
I picked up a set of the Specialized S-works Mondo's and latex tubes. I don't put out enough watts to light a bulb so I need all the help I can get.
2011-03-22 10:08 PM
in reply to: #3395812

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Austin, TX
Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?

You have gotten good responses so far. The AFM tire chart is a godsend. Its good data that has been verified in field testing out on the road too. Don't let anyone tell you its no good because its just on rollers.

 

Faster tires are faster because they require less energy to deform as the wheel rolls along the ground. Its got nothing to do with weight or anything else. Latex tubes help a bit for the same reason. Less energy to deform than Butyl.

 

A great side effect of fast tires is extra comfort too. The downside is less puncture resistance. However if you use a fast tire like the Vittoria EVO CX 320tpi, and ONLY use it for racing, and don't wear it down with too many miles, you will be pretty safe.

The GP4000S is a good compromise tire.

 

The difference between a BAD tire, like many of the Tufo tubulars, or gatorskins, and a good tire, can be bigger than the difference between a cheap training wheel and a zipp  808.  Many a triathlete has put on zipps with tufo tubulars and wondered why they were slower.

 

a great tragedy imho

2011-03-23 12:50 AM
in reply to: #3395812

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Sugar Land
Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?

What's the difference between the different models of the Specialized Mondo tires? I noticed there were 5 models. There's a significant difference in the price points in the 5 models and I don't want to pay more than I need to. I struggle on the bike so 15 watts by replacing a tire is great news (if that's indeed the case). 

How about wheel sets? Do they really make a difference? I see a lot of posts referencing Zipp wheelsets.

Also, how do I know when it's time to change my tires?

I don't have the luxury of a separate wheelset and tires for racing. Is it silly to use the faster tires for training?

2011-03-23 12:58 AM
in reply to: #3409810

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Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?
NewbieTri100 - 2011-03-23 12:50 AM

What's the difference between the different models of the Specialized Mondo tires? I noticed there were 5 models. There's a significant difference in the price points in the 5 models and I don't want to pay more than I need to. I struggle on the bike so 15 watts by replacing a tire is great news (if that's indeed the case). 

How about wheel sets? Do they really make a difference? I see a lot of posts referencing Zipp wheelsets.

Also, how do I know when it's time to change my tires?

I don't have the luxury of a separate wheelset and tires for racing. Is it silly to use the faster tires for training?

I forgot to mention, I'm riding a road bike not a TT. I don't know if that impacts the answer to my questions.



2011-03-23 7:41 AM
in reply to: #3409810

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Austin, TX
Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?

Most tires have some sort of wear indicator, like the Contientals have little dimples, once you can't see those any more, its worn out. Also if you notice the wheel is very flat on top instead of round, might be time to go, and once you get flats really easy, time to go!

 

Yes wheel sets do make a difference. It sounds like you are on a budget, so you can just go with a wheelbuilder wheel cover on the rear, and some good tires, and you won't be giving up too much time to anyone.

 

I don't like using the same tires to race on as I train on. The fast tires are expensive, don't last as long, and puncture easier. Better to save them for racing so they are in good shape and will be robust for the race.  Should only take a couple minutes to change tires right? =)

I've got some more details on some of your questions in my article on aerodynamic tricks:

http://austintriathlonstore.blogspot.com/2011/02/aerodynamics-victory-by-thousand-cuts.html

NewbieTri100 - 2011-03-23 12:50 AM

What's the difference between the different models of the Specialized Mondo tires? I noticed there were 5 models. There's a significant difference in the price points in the 5 models and I don't want to pay more than I need to. I struggle on the bike so 15 watts by replacing a tire is great news (if that's indeed the case). 

How about wheel sets? Do they really make a difference? I see a lot of posts referencing Zipp wheelsets.

Also, how do I know when it's time to change my tires?

I don't have the luxury of a separate wheelset and tires for racing. Is it silly to use the faster tires for training?

2011-03-23 8:07 AM
in reply to: #3395812

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Elite
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Romeoville, Il
Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?
I spent last season riding a set of gatorskins on my roadie and a set of ultra sports on my tt bike. It painfully obvious that guys putting out similar power levels than me were pulling from me constantly. I didn't bother changing the gatorskins because I was afraid to flat. However, on my tt bike I ran the ultrasports. Those tires get constant complaints of flats and are just as slow as gatorskins. I never flatted on either tire and I ride roads in Illinois, probably the worst roads in the country. I don't understand how people flat all the time. I just found GP4000s tires on sale for $42 on Amazon.com. I ordered 5 of them and will be putting them on my tt and roadie, along with some latex tubes. If I start flatting I'll just run butyl tubes unless I'm racing. I'll probably pick up a set of Vittoria Evo or Specialized Mondo's for racing too. I'm hoping what everyone says is true and they make a difference. I already had some good avg speeds in races with the cheap tires and regular rims. I'll be running Jet 9's or Jet 6/9 this season along with the tires. So I better be fast!!!
2011-03-23 8:34 AM
in reply to: #3410076

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Austin, TX
Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?

Latex tubes don't flat any easier that butyl ones.  The only trick is you MUST!!!!! pull the bead back around the entire perimeter of the wheel, both sides, and be SURE the tube isn't sticking out after installing them. and massage it into place if it is.  You really should always check this with Butyl tubes too but I find that when I'm putting latex tubes in, there is a bit sticking out almost every time.

 

the latex tubes are kind of 'sticky' so installing them requires more care. if it is installed right, no more flats that butyl. 

 

2011-03-23 10:04 AM
in reply to: #3410128

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Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?
jackmott - 2011-03-23 9:34 AM

the latex tubes are kind of 'sticky' so installing them requires more care. if it is installed right, no more flats that butyl. 

 



Corn starch all over the tube. Not enough to have it puddle but enough to make sure it's not sticky. Still have to check to make sure you're not pinching it but it does go in easier.

2011-03-23 10:23 PM
in reply to: #3410015

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Sugar Land
Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?
jackmott - 2011-03-23 7:41 AM

Most tires have some sort of wear indicator, like the Contientals have little dimples, once you can't see those any more, its worn out. Also if you notice the wheel is very flat on top instead of round, might be time to go, and once you get flats really easy, time to go!

 

Yes wheel sets do make a difference. It sounds like you are on a budget, so you can just go with a wheelbuilder wheel cover on the rear, and some good tires, and you won't be giving up too much time to anyone.

 

I don't like using the same tires to race on as I train on. The fast tires are expensive, don't last as long, and puncture easier. Better to save them for racing so they are in good shape and will be robust for the race.  Should only take a couple minutes to change tires right? =)

I've got some more details on some of your questions in my article on aerodynamic tricks:

http://austintriathlonstore.blogspot.com/2011/02/aerodynamics-victory-by-thousand-cuts.html

NewbieTri100 - 2011-03-23 12:50 AM

What's the difference between the different models of the Specialized Mondo tires? I noticed there were 5 models. There's a significant difference in the price points in the 5 models and I don't want to pay more than I need to. I struggle on the bike so 15 watts by replacing a tire is great news (if that's indeed the case). 

How about wheel sets? Do they really make a difference? I see a lot of posts referencing Zipp wheelsets.

Also, how do I know when it's time to change my tires?

I don't have the luxury of a separate wheelset and tires for racing. Is it silly to use the faster tires for training?

Thank you for your input.



2011-03-24 8:17 AM
in reply to: #3410015

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Elite
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Spring, TX
Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?
jackmott - 2011-03-23 7:41 AM

I don't like using the same tires to race on as I train on. The fast tires are expensive, don't last as long, and puncture easier. Better to save them for racing so they are in good shape and will be robust for the race.  Should only take a couple minutes to change tires right? =)

 

Definitely agree with this.  I have a pair of S-Works Mondo Open Tubulars for racing, but use the GP4000s' for every day riding.  They're about middle of the pack for rolling resistance but seem to be very puncture resistant.  I've only had one flat in the past 3 years, and that was installation error with latex tubes. 

Tires make a significant difference.  For wheels, keep an eye on the classifieds here and on Slowtwitch.  You can pick up almost new aero wheels for a fraction of the cost. 

2011-03-24 10:34 AM
in reply to: #3395812

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Dallas, TX
Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?
Mounted the Continental GP 4000s last night, and now the rear tire rubs against the frame. I looked at the tire closely and saw that there's a slight flap of rubber down the center about 8 inches long. Should I try to cut/sand/rip it off or just let normal wear and tear handle it?
2011-03-24 11:03 AM
in reply to: #3412268

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Austin, TX
Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?

do you have a bike with horizontal dropouts?

 

you can either adjust the set screws to move the wheel a touch further out, or just do it by hand and make sure the skewer is tight. the tire will wear down after a while then you won't have to bother with that.

2011-03-24 12:58 PM
in reply to: #3412321

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Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?
jackmott - 2011-03-24 11:03 AM

do you have a bike with horizontal dropouts?

 

you can either adjust the set screws to move the wheel a touch further out, or just do it by hand and make sure the skewer is tight. the tire will wear down after a while then you won't have to bother with that.

 

I'll adjust the set screws. I didn't know if that was something that needed to be left alone like the derailleur stops. Thanks!

2011-03-24 2:08 PM
in reply to: #3395812

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Master
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Rural Ontario
Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?

Tires do make a difference.  On my last bike I experimented with a set of 20mm  Vitoria Comp CX 320tpi, latex tubes, pumped to 135psi. On smooth roads the ride was noticebly faster than on my old 23mm Conti GP Triathlon tires & old tubes.  On rough roads its a judgement call between comfort &  speed.



2011-03-24 2:41 PM
in reply to: #3412717

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Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?
mgalanter - 2011-03-24 2:08 PM

  On rough roads its a judgement call between comfort &  speed.

 

 just don't pump them up soo high. the faster tire is the faster tire on any road. The ideal pressure may change (and for what its worth even on smooth roads, 135psi is probably too high). If a tire is inflated to high that comfort is noticeably affect, then it is also probably slower.  Shaking your body takes energy, that is energy wasted.



Edited by jackmott 2011-03-24 2:42 PM
2011-03-24 9:09 PM
in reply to: #3395812

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St. Louis
Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?

Anyone know where I can buy some S-Mondo clinchers on line?  Everywhere I've looked they are sold out.

 

Thanks,

2011-03-24 11:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?
This may be a stupid question but........What are clinchers? How do the compare to tubulars? What's the pros and cons of each?
2011-03-25 7:16 AM
in reply to: #3413387

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Subject: RE: Tires make a difference?

NewbieTri100 - 2011-03-24 11:06 PM This may be a stupid question but........What are clinchers? How do the compare to tubulars? What's the pros and cons of each?

 

It's not a stupid question, we've all asked it.  If you have a tube and a tire, that is a clincher.  Most of us have this setup.  With a tubular, the tube and tire are all one piece.

Here is an article explaining it in more detail. http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=979

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