Sub :20 MIle Swim (Page 2)

Big improvements can be made relatively quickly assuming 1) your current level of swimming fitness is not great, or 2) your technique is not great.  Since you said you are not doing flip turns should we assume that your stroke technique is not perfect?

As an example, I just got back in the pool at the beginning of May after not swimming for years.  I have been running since January so my aerobic fitness was there.  However, my stroke was a little rusty and my swimming fitness needed improvement.  My pool workouts have been primarily: 200y warmup, 1650y TT, 200y cool down.  I can accomplish all this in less than 45 minutes.

The first time in the pool I swam 27 minutes and some change for the 1650y.  The last time I went hard I went 22:29.

Your goal may be possible, especially if we're talking 1500m not a mile.

These have all been said in various ways, but here are my thoughts if you're serious.

1. 2-3x A DAY. If you really can't do 3, sub one for swim cords and the exercises Shane recommended.

2. Warm up on land. Intensely plan out your 45-minute sessions and do them intensely.

3. Get a few coaching sessions (not like you'll have own personal full-time coach ... ) for where you're at, there are probably still some dead spots, form adjustments, etc. that can benefit you greatly. Heck, post video here the sharks will circle.

If you can do all of the above, consistently, for 2 years--and that means doing as much OWS as you can when you can--I think you can get there.

Masters is great, but in my experience there's a lot of down time during workouts (which is a perfectly good structure, but not for your needs) and they're at least an hour long.

I am far from an okay swimmer but I've dropped my times down about :25 for my 100's the past few weeks.  How did I do it?  The key is to be really bad at swimming   My goal is to drop 40 minutes off my IM swim (1:49) and I'll Norman Stadler my goggles if I don't do it! (the secret goal is to go sub hour but you're doing a great job of taking the grenades on this one )

Our situation is similar (at least until next month).  Since my gym has noodle class at 6 pm I'm limited to an hour swim after work.  So basically what I do is 5 days of swimming at 2000 yards.  Some will tell you its not enough but my lats and tri's are constantly sore so I think its working.  I do a lot of very slow form work, drills and hard 100-300y tt's.  Not much in between.  Of course you can swim well already so I would just go hard with little rest and do drills and warmups on land.  Go 7 days a week at 45 minutes would probably be your best tactic.

The OPs goal is surely aggressive, and is going to take a multi YEAR commitment, but him stating he wants to swim 20 at the mile is not even remotely close to you stating you want to win Kona....as a pro....which is what a 4:20/2:30 would allow you to do.

To the OP, you either have to swim every day, or 2 swims per day 3-4 times per week, one in the AM one in the PM since you have a 45 min time limit.

got it... 10k/day for a few years, also need that bromine pool thingy...  Anyone want to sponsor my effort?  

What bryan is missing is the fact that i dont even shave my legs/chest/back, just doing that might get me there.

That made me smile, but alas... shaving doesn't help swimmers when wearing a full lenght wetsuit Unless of course you have very hairy hands and feet

There are roughly 1600 meters in a mile....

~1:34 minutes per 100m = 25 minutes for that mile.

~1:15 mintues per 100m = 20 minutes for that mile.

Now, looking at Olympic distance of 1500m....

~ 1:40 minutes per 100m = 25 minutes for that 1500m

~ 1:20 minutes pr 100m = 20 minutes for that 1500m

I don't see that as being impossible... i would say it's moderatly hard to very hard for the Olympic Distance and Very Hard to Extreamly hard for the true 1600m of a true mile.

With good form and a resonable amount to time and effort in the pool, and some natureal skill... very doable.  It will take a 6 day a week effort IMO, but if you set your workouts correctly and work 100 intervals and speed work then move to a period of distance work, back to speed (remember to add some recovery in)... I think you could come close. 

Now, that's considering pool work.... OWS are and can be very different from race to race.  Currents, waves, Crowds of people... sighting and course layout can all play a drastic role in time.  I find in actully race OWS it's better to look at what % you exit the water in your AG than look at your time.  You're goal for Triathlon race should be the same (% in AG)... measured with your goal in the pool under a controlled condition.

Good luck and stay focused....

totally agree with everything you have said... moreover, the time spent swimming, if applied to the bike would result in more time savings overall.  However, swimming is the only discipline I have any hope of being FOFOP in.  FOFOP in most olys is around 20 minutes.

Isn't this part being overlooked here?  You don't have a swimming background and have never been coached...isn't there probably a lot of room for improvement in stroke technique?  You might immediately get a minute of the 5 you're looking for with just a few tips from a stroke guru.  As for the other 4 minutes....work your off like everyone else suggested I guess.

Since we're talking Oly swims now, I think it's possible.  But not with the limitations you have on your swimming.  My two Olys this year were 20 minutes, and while it's front of the tri pack, it's a mediocre swim time (actually one was an international distance, and swim courses, as mentioned, are never spot on). 

If you really want to do it, and your technique is relatively good, IMO you just need to pound out the yardage, preferably with a masters class or group that will push you, and you have push yourself beyond your comfort zone.  Doesn't need to be long intervals.  I rarely swim longer than 400 yds in the pool.  But lots of threshold intervals (IMO, a set of 10-15 100s at threshold pace translates well to an Oly or HIM swim distance)

To get to a sub :20 requires the following, IMO:

1.  4-6X days a week in the pool.  There is no substitute for yardage when training distance.  

2. Heavy aerobic work at first which means high reps, low intervals. For instance 20 X 100 @ 1:20, hold :10s or better.

3. Race pace towards the end of your training cycle on very tight intervals. For instance 20 X 100 @ 1:15, holding :06s or better.

Oh I see...now we aren't talking about a mile....we're talking about 1500M....LOL....

Just an FYI people....the pace the OP is talking about for 1 MILE would have gotten him out of the water squarely in the middle of the pack at the last Men's ITU race in London. Mid pack was ~18:40 for 1500m (1:14/100M)

Andy Potts swam a 1:15/100m pace exactly in the last Kona....and a 1:11/100m pace at Oceanside this year

So in Tri world, the OP is asking how to get to the absolute worlds best while being allergic to chlorine....good luck.

I don't consider 20min for 1500m to be the absolute worlds best in Tri... just saying..

Now I do agree that 20 minutes is going to be near front if not top 3 in MOST tri's on the local level, but at the national level it won't be.  So, I would say his goal is going to be hard to do, but not unbelievable...

Obviously his standalone pool swim is going to be faster....but that's not what we are talking about. We are talking about triathlons in open water. His Oceanside swim was 1:11/100M and he is the best long course tri swimmer around save a few.

What about my ITU example? That is a DIRECT comparison of what the OP is talking about and they are generally accepted to be the best swimmers in triathlon as a group....

It would also depend on your goal.  I'm sure Andy could and can go faster if he watned.  It comes to a point of energy expended and return on time.... if I wanted to swim with the pro's in any race I could do it... but I'd be working hard and they wouldn't be... I would pay for it on the bike and run.  If someone wants to train and be able to get out of the water in the top 3 or even win the swim... they can do it.  I do it all the time, but that's my only moment of "fame" as they blow by me on the bike and lap me on the runs... I am a front of pack (top 3 as a goal) on the swim and middle of the pack by the race end...

As for the ITU example... the OP is talking olympc distance of 1500m mile (it's the mile in swimming not in reality).  That's 1:20 pace, which wouldn't do to well at ITU... IMO.

When someone ask for advice, I thnk it's always good to ask some questions to find a reference for the goal they want to accomplish... Do they want to swim a true mile in that time?  In a pool?  In an openwater?  In race or practice?  There are a lot of things that "could" be.  The statement that was made by the OP wasn't clear...  I think since the 1st post we've been able to figure out what he's looking to do and I don't feel what he wants to do is impossible for him.

Personally, I don't feel that "time" in a race is a good measure of perfomance... each course is going to be different.. heck even the same swim course will be different the next year depending on layout and currents.  It's better to look at % of AG finish and then measue performance in the pool under more conrolled distance.  YMMV.

First off....it's 1:15/100m pace....that's what we are talking about....NOT 1:20/100m

The OP said 1 mile in 20 minutes....NOT 1500m

1:15/100m is Men's ITU level in open water. That is world class in triathlon. If you think that is ho-hum...awesome.

The OP made references to swimming in a triathlon....not standalone. That means triathlon pacing. Not standalone pacing.