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2012-02-26 9:43 PM

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Master
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Subject: Suicide by Sugar

Has anyone read this book "Suicide by Sugar" by Dr. Nancy Appleton ?

It's on the Hammer Nutrition site.

I am curious to why sugar is considered such an issue ?

I surely consume a lot of it when training and racing. Gatorade, Gels, Bloks, etc..

To me it seems to be a necessary component of energy production...especially for us !

 



2012-02-26 10:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar
metafizx - 2012-02-26 9:43 PM

Has anyone read this book "Suicide by Sugar" by Dr. Nancy Appleton ?

It's on the Hammer Nutrition site.

I am curious to why sugar is considered such an issue ?

I surely consume a lot of it when training and racing. Gatorade, Gels, Bloks, etc..

To me it seems to be a necessary component of energy production...especially for us !

 

 

I haven't read the book, but just remember the simple fact that most people aren't actively training triathletes! I don't know if the book says sugar is bad for athletes...because I agree with you that it's necessary for energy production...but it is the kiss of death for sedentary videogame addicts and such. If you don't burn it up, it is converted to fat, in very oversimplified terms. 

2012-02-26 10:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar

It also depends on type of sugar. 

High Fructose Corn Syrup = Suicide (and also delicious)

2012-02-26 10:29 PM
in reply to: #4067712

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Master
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar

Sugar consumption started spiking in the 1800's. We eat more sugar than in the 1960 but the increase between 1960 and today is much gentler than between 1800 and 1960. Sugar is only part of the problem. 

 

 

IMHO the health epidemic we're seeing in some western nations is not driven by any one causal factor but by a basket-full of factors that act as 

The increase in Polyunsaturated Fat use, increase in NaCl consumption, and dramatically increased sedimentary lifestyle. How many of us walk our kids to school or walk to grocery store vs. drive? Most trips over 500m are now in a car, whereas when I was a kid in Europe during the 1970's we didn't wear out the car on piddly trips under 2km.



Edited by mgalanter 2012-02-26 10:35 PM
2012-02-26 10:40 PM
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Houston
Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar
Can it be suicide if the death takes 30 to 50 years to come to fruition?
2012-02-26 10:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar
indianacyclist - 2012-02-26 11:21 PM

It also depends on type of sugar. 

High Fructose Corn Syrup = Suicide (and also delicious)

To add, fructose isn't absorbed very well in the gut, can't really be absorbed by cells very well once in the blood stream, and tends to be shunted to make glycerol -> triacylglycerol -> fat.  Offhand I don't remember if frutose can act as an osmol in your gut so that might not be an issue (in short, some sugars that can't be absorbed very well sit in your gut and can osmotically 'suck' water into your gut.  Glucose could even cause this if you weren't taking in any sodium with it.  Gels can cause this with some people).  

Also on the note of sugar, if one is eating a lot of sugary foods constantly, loading your body with (ultimately) glucose, your pancreas is on overdrive trying to pump out insulin to deal with the huge demand.  Eventually, it can't meet the demand, and likewise cells will also become less sensitive to insulin.  What I just described is essentially how one could develop Type 2 Diabetes.  

Now, all that sugar you eat on the bike? Likely not a problem.  Unless you're diabetic to begin with, all that sugar is more or less going off to be used by your muscles and not accumulating in your blood stream at high levels for long periods (weeks, months, years).  I suspect your primary worry about eating all that sugar would be the dentist, but I'll defer that question to someone else!



2012-02-26 10:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar

I'm never reading anything regarding eating.  I eat food.  Fruits, vegetables, fish, chicken, beef, beans, whole grains.....and beer.  That's it.  I don't add salt or sugar, and the only thing I drink besides beer is water and black coffee. 

Oh yeah, it's almost Morel mushroom season.....I'll eat nearly 1000 of them if I can find them.  Laughing

2012-02-26 11:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar
metafizx - 2012-02-26 9:43 PM

Has anyone read this book "Suicide by Sugar" by Dr. Nancy Appleton ?

It's on the Hammer Nutrition site.

I am curious to why sugar is considered such an issue ?

I surely consume a lot of it when training and racing. Gatorade, Gels, Bloks, etc..

To me it seems to be a necessary component of energy production...especially for us !

I haven't read that book, but I have read other materials. The main problem is that our body is not well evolved to process a lot of sugar in concentrated form. So the main problem with it? It has, via industrial food production, become insanely cheap. HFCS is no worse at all (biochemically), except in one important way: it is even more insanely cheap. The net result? As the big chart above shows, our collective consumption of all processed sugars (so sucrose, HFCS, etc.) has simply gone through the roof. And in those quantities in concentrated form, it wreaks havoc in the body. It does it for sedentary folks and it does it for athletes.



Edited by DarkSpeedWorks 2012-02-26 11:26 PM
2012-02-27 6:23 AM
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

This is a pretty interesting presentation about the dangers of Sugar and Fructose specifically.  He does make the point that sucrose(50% glucose, 50% fructose) is for all intents and purposes the same as HFCS(47% glucose, 53% fructose) Its a long presentation, 1:30ish.  Interesting listening though.  He also makes the point that fructose is beneficial in restoring glycogen levels quickly in endurance athletes like elite marathon runners.  He also makes the point that no one really knows anyone who exercises that much and the people drinking Gatorade are fat kids who all want to be like Mike!

Seriously if your interested give it a watch.  It is pretty interesting.

2012-02-27 9:46 AM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar
metafizx - 2012-02-26 7:43 PM

Has anyone read this book "Suicide by Sugar" by Dr. Nancy Appleton ?

It's on the Hammer Nutrition site.

I am curious to why sugar is considered such an issue ?

I surely consume a lot of it when training and racing. Gatorade, Gels, Bloks, etc..

To me it seems to be a necessary component of energy production...especially for us !

 

Because Hammer wants to make it one of their selling points.

2012-02-27 9:59 AM
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar

Well, I'm not sure what hammer uses instead of sugar, but there is lots more info out there (totally independent of hammer) that is all starting to point in the same direction. Here's a recent (2011) NY Times article. It's a pretty compelling read:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all



2012-02-27 10:01 AM
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Runner
Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar
If sugar is so bad, nobody has told the Kenyans.

Calories aren't "good" or "bad". They just are. We perceive them as being "good" or "bad" based on our goals and knowledge.

Water, carbs, fat, vitamins, all of these are necessary for life, but too much or too little of any of them can have negative consequences.

Yes, the current diet of most people has too much of certain things, sugar possibly being one of them. However, considering the size of our country, and the amount of time and cost required to move foods around, we will continue to see stuff like HFCS in significant quantities. We either need to consume less, or pay more.
2012-02-27 10:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar

Sugar needs to be divided in the two main and very different problems.

Fructose will cause a rise in Triglyceride levels which is now related to heart disease. Not such a great problem when training and burning lots of calories, since all that fructose gets used and is not floating around your system. Should stay away on days when not burning lots of calories.

Glucose on the other end has been proven through several researches since the 70's to slow down your immune system as well as causing many other problems most link to insulin resistance and inflammation. Slowing down your immune system with glucose is not good news for people who hate sitting around waiting for a cold to pass. 

The suicide part might have to do with the fact that latest research or describing sugar as "Fertilizer for Cancer"

Luc

2012-02-27 10:41 AM
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar
let me chime in sugar / carbs is not necessary for energy production - fat can be used, and per gram more calorie dense, so you can carry less weight if you fuel by fat (important that it has vit C)  , for intance the same amount of a gel pack giving 100 cals a pack of butter would give 180.
2012-02-27 11:35 AM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar

my curiosity peaked from this particular book being available on the Hammer Nutrition site.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Hammer stuff...but figured there must be a reason why.

From a quick analysis of their products, the top ingredient is MaltoDextrin. Then there is a mix of fruit sugar and dextrins.

From their Gel blurb '.. There's only a trace of sugar, so Hammer Gel doesn't set off wild insulin spikes causing "sugar high" and "sugar crash." You won't find our products saturated with cheap, ineffective, commercial-grade sugars, which can ruin health and performance...."

hmmmm....I drink a lot of Gatorade

Also found a web page from Dr. Nancy Appleton...146 reasons why sugar is poison! here



Edited by metafizx 2012-02-27 11:41 AM
2012-02-27 12:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar
synthetic - 2012-02-27 11:41 AM

let me chime in sugar / carbs is not necessary for energy production - fat can be used, and per gram more calorie dense, so you can carry less weight if you fuel by fat (important that it has vit C)  , for intance the same amount of a gel pack giving 100 cals a pack of butter would give 180.


Um, no. You still need some level of carbohydrate intake.


2012-02-27 12:32 PM
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Champion
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar
I am quite dubious when a company who is in the business of selling sugar makes or endorses claims that sugar is evil.

Shane
2012-02-27 12:49 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar

gsmacleod - 2012-02-28 7:32 AM I am quite dubious when a company who is in the business of selling sugar makes or endorses claims that sugar is evil. Shane

sure. but it seems to me that they are trying to say their products have components like Maltodextrin, suggesting that it is a preferred alternative to just plain sugar...

2012-02-27 1:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar
metafizx - 2012-02-28 1:35 AM

my curiosity peaked from this particular book being available on the Hammer Nutrition site.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Hammer stuff...but figured there must be a reason why.

From a quick analysis of their products, the top ingredient is MaltoDextrin. Then there is a mix of fruit sugar and dextrins.

From their Gel blurb '.. There's only a trace of sugar, so Hammer Gel doesn't set off wild insulin spikes causing "sugar high" and "sugar crash." You won't find our products saturated with cheap, ineffective, commercial-grade sugars, which can ruin health and performance...."

hmmmm....I drink a lot of Gatorade

Also found a web page from Dr. Nancy Appleton...146 reasons why sugar is poison! here

Someone correct me if my biochemistry is wrong, but IIRC maltodextrin has sufficiently similar ratings on the glycemic index (and therefore blood sugar and RATE of raising) as well as insulin spiking as glucose/dextrose to be indistinguishable in terms of use.

2012-02-27 1:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar
metafizx - 2012-02-27 2:49 PM

sure. but it seems to me that they are trying to say their products have components like Maltodextrin, suggesting that it is a preferred alternative to just plain sugar...



Yeah, I know that's what they are claiming but I haven't seen anything compelling to make me think it is much more than marketing.

Shane
2012-02-27 1:07 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar
TriAya - 2012-02-27 11:01 AM
metafizx - 2012-02-28 1:35 AM

my curiosity peaked from this particular book being available on the Hammer Nutrition site.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Hammer stuff...but figured there must be a reason why.

From a quick analysis of their products, the top ingredient is MaltoDextrin. Then there is a mix of fruit sugar and dextrins.

From their Gel blurb '.. There's only a trace of sugar, so Hammer Gel doesn't set off wild insulin spikes causing "sugar high" and "sugar crash." You won't find our products saturated with cheap, ineffective, commercial-grade sugars, which can ruin health and performance...."

hmmmm....I drink a lot of Gatorade

Also found a web page from Dr. Nancy Appleton...146 reasons why sugar is poison! here

Someone correct me if my biochemistry is wrong, but IIRC maltodextrin has sufficiently similar ratings on the glycemic index (and therefore blood sugar and RATE of raising) as well as insulin spiking as glucose/dextrose to be indistinguishable in terms of use.

Maltodextrin falls into the starch category.  Which can still have a very high glycemic index (think of a potato) but isn't a simple sugar.



2012-02-27 1:16 PM
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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar
spudone - 2012-02-28 3:07 AM
TriAya - 2012-02-27 11:01 AM
metafizx - 2012-02-28 1:35 AM

my curiosity peaked from this particular book being available on the Hammer Nutrition site.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Hammer stuff...but figured there must be a reason why.

From a quick analysis of their products, the top ingredient is MaltoDextrin. Then there is a mix of fruit sugar and dextrins.

From their Gel blurb '.. There's only a trace of sugar, so Hammer Gel doesn't set off wild insulin spikes causing "sugar high" and "sugar crash." You won't find our products saturated with cheap, ineffective, commercial-grade sugars, which can ruin health and performance...."

hmmmm....I drink a lot of Gatorade

Also found a web page from Dr. Nancy Appleton...146 reasons why sugar is poison! here

Someone correct me if my biochemistry is wrong, but IIRC maltodextrin has sufficiently similar ratings on the glycemic index (and therefore blood sugar and RATE of raising) as well as insulin spiking as glucose/dextrose to be indistinguishable in terms of use.

Maltodextrin falls into the starch category.  Which can still have a very high glycemic index (think of a potato) but isn't a simple sugar.

Indeed. I think I have a pretty good idea (still, admittedly it's been many years) of what maltodextrin looks and acts like, biochemically, and what I'm saying is it really acts like a simple sugar, even if biochemically its common form is a branched-chain glucose polymer.

I know bodybuilders use it post workout for the very purpose of instigating sugar and insulin spikes.

In other words, maltodextrin isn't going to act that differently in terms of training and race nutrition. The time it takes to break the additional bonds it contains that make it a polymer (and according to Hammer, therefore not a sugar, sorry, but blah blah blah) is negligible.

2012-02-27 1:21 PM
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Runner
Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar
TriAya - 2012-02-27 2:16 PM

spudone - 2012-02-28 3:07 AM
TriAya - 2012-02-27 11:01 AM
metafizx - 2012-02-28 1:35 AM

my curiosity peaked from this particular book being available on the Hammer Nutrition site.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Hammer stuff...but figured there must be a reason why.

From a quick analysis of their products, the top ingredient is MaltoDextrin. Then there is a mix of fruit sugar and dextrins.

From their Gel blurb '.. There's only a trace of sugar, so Hammer Gel doesn't set off wild insulin spikes causing "sugar high" and "sugar crash." You won't find our products saturated with cheap, ineffective, commercial-grade sugars, which can ruin health and performance...."

hmmmm....I drink a lot of Gatorade

Also found a web page from Dr. Nancy Appleton...146 reasons why sugar is poison! here

Someone correct me if my biochemistry is wrong, but IIRC maltodextrin has sufficiently similar ratings on the glycemic index (and therefore blood sugar and RATE of raising) as well as insulin spiking as glucose/dextrose to be indistinguishable in terms of use.

Maltodextrin falls into the starch category.  Which can still have a very high glycemic index (think of a potato) but isn't a simple sugar.

Indeed. I think I have a pretty good idea (still, admittedly it's been many years) of what maltodextrin looks and acts like, biochemically, and what I'm saying is it really acts like a simple sugar, even if biochemically its common form is a branched-chain glucose polymer.

I know bodybuilders use it post workout for the very purpose of instigating sugar and insulin spikes.

In other words, maltodextrin isn't going to act that differently in terms of training and race nutrition. The time it takes to break the additional bonds it contains that make it a polymer (and according to Hammer, therefore not a sugar, sorry, but blah blah blah) is negligible.



From my reading and understanding, yes this is correct.

It breaks down very quickly and easily into the simple sugars used by the body, so while there is a chemical difference, the reality is that most people won't notice any difference whatsoever.

However.... Products with maltodextrin generally won't taste as sweet as something with sucrose in it (sucrose binds to taste receptors more readily). So there may be a perception there.
2012-02-27 1:27 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar
FWIW, I still hate the taste of most of the Hammer products
2012-02-27 6:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar

Scout7 - 2012-02-27 12:27 PM
synthetic - 2012-02-27 11:41 AM let me chime in sugar / carbs is not necessary for energy production - fat can be used, and per gram more calorie dense, so you can carry less weight if you fuel by fat (important that it has vit C)  , for intance the same amount of a gel pack giving 100 cals a pack of butter would give 180.
Um, no. You still need some level of carbohydrate intake.

 

prove me wrong. When you run out of carbs the body uses fat for fuel. This is the principle of all keto diets. Even lew hollander is all about fat for fuel.  All carbs are nice for is if you didnt plan out your nutrition well, their potential energy will be more available due to faster GI

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