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Suicide by Sugar (Page 2)
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 2012-02-28 6:59 AM in reply to: #4069528 |
Runner |  Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugarsynthetic - 2012-02-27 7:44 PM Scout7 - 2012-02-27 12:27 PM synthetic - 2012-02-27 11:41 AM let me chime in sugar / carbs is not necessary for energy production - fat can be used, and per gram more calorie dense, so you can carry less weight if you fuel by fat (important that it has vit C) , for intance the same amount of a gel pack giving 100 cals a pack of butter would give 180. Um, no. You still need some level of carbohydrate intake.
prove me wrong. When you run out of carbs the body uses fat for fuel. This is the principle of all keto diets. Even lew hollander is all about fat for fuel. All carbs are nice for is if you didnt plan out your nutrition well, their potential energy will be more available due to faster GI So you're saying that all the recommendations for athletes to get in a mix of protein, fat, and carbohydrate are effectively wrong then? Even the ketogenic diet (which is not really recommended for use by athletes) includes some amount of carbohydrates. Fat is a fuel; I never said otherwise. However, your body still requires some amount of carbohydrate intake. |
| 2012-02-28 7:08 AM in reply to: #4069528 |
Champion  9407    Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar synthetic - 2012-02-27 8:44 PM prove me wrong. When you run out of carbs the body uses fat for fuel. This is the principle of all keto diets. Even lew hollander is all about fat for fuel. All carbs are nice for is if you didnt plan out your nutrition well, their potential energy will be more available due to faster GI How about you prove you right? Do you have anything that suggests taking exogenous fat as fuel is optimal during endurance exercise? Shane |
| 2012-02-28 10:53 AM in reply to: #4069970 |
Extreme Veteran 389 | Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar gsmacleod - 2012-02-28 7:08 AM synthetic - 2012-02-27 8:44 PM prove me wrong. When you run out of carbs the body uses fat for fuel. This is the principle of all keto diets. Even lew hollander is all about fat for fuel. All carbs are nice for is if you didnt plan out your nutrition well, their potential energy will be more available due to faster GI How about you prove you right? Do you have anything that suggests taking exogenous fat as fuel is optimal during endurance exercise? ShaneIt is only optimal because there is less food you need to carry. but in the citric acid cycle the converted fuel is ATP regardless be carb or fat, thats what they break down into.
and to previous poster - there are many books out there being written by top level athletes , etc on paleo and keto diets. The carb mentality is a 1970s mumbo jumbo fueled by gatorade funded research |
| 2012-02-28 11:39 AM in reply to: #4070547 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar synthetic - 2012-02-28 12:53 PM It is only optimal because there is less food you need to carry. but in the citric acid cycle the converted fuel is ATP regardless be carb or fat, thats what they break down into. Three questions: 1) What happens when the body runs low on carbs even if it has lots of fat? 2) What is more quickly passed from the gut to the blood stream to be used as fuel? 3) At what intensity is this going to allow an athlete to race? Shane |
| 2012-02-28 12:41 PM in reply to: #4070547 |
Runner | Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar synthetic - 2012-02-28 11:53 AM gsmacleod - 2012-02-28 7:08 AM synthetic - 2012-02-27 8:44 PM prove me wrong. When you run out of carbs the body uses fat for fuel. This is the principle of all keto diets. Even lew hollander is all about fat for fuel. All carbs are nice for is if you didnt plan out your nutrition well, their potential energy will be more available due to faster GI How about you prove you right? Do you have anything that suggests taking exogenous fat as fuel is optimal during endurance exercise? ShaneIt is only optimal because there is less food you need to carry. but in the citric acid cycle the converted fuel is ATP regardless be carb or fat, thats what they break down into.
and to previous poster - there are many books out there being written by top level athletes , etc on paleo and keto diets. The carb mentality is a 1970s mumbo jumbo fueled by gatorade funded research This amuses me. Keto diets were developed to help children with epilepsy. They were not intended to be used by athletes training for endurance events. Paleo is fine, but it is not necessarily high fat low carb. In fact, I'd argue that there's plenty of carbohydrates in a good Paleo diet; all those fruits and other foods contain carbohydrates. I'm not advocating loading up on pasta and surviving on sports drink. In fact, if you read through other threads, I generally advocate using less than what most people take in. However, to state that a person doesn't need carbohydrates (how that would even happen I haven't figured out yet) at all is unfounded by everything I've come across. |
| 2012-02-28 12:47 PM in reply to: #4070815 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar I am moving my my race nutrition plan to olive oil and Vit C pills. |
| 2012-02-28 12:50 PM in reply to: #4070667 |
Extreme Veteran 389 | Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar gsmacleod - 2012-02-28 11:39 AM synthetic - 2012-02-28 12:53 PM It is only optimal because there is less food you need to carry. but in the citric acid cycle the converted fuel is ATP regardless be carb or fat, thats what they break down into. Three questions: 1) What happens when the body runs low on carbs even if it has lots of fat? 2) What is more quickly passed from the gut to the blood stream to be used as fuel? 3) At what intensity is this going to allow an athlete to race? Shane
1) you have the potential to bonk if your body is not adapted for using fat as fuel. 2) yes sugar enters quicker, that is why I mentioned Gi index and using fat as fuel must be more carefully planned. 3) Intensity will be a matter of conditioning. |
| 2012-02-28 12:54 PM in reply to: #4070835 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar synthetic - 2012-02-28 1:50 PM 3) Intensity will be a matter of conditioning. Let's just say I want to finish the race as fast as possible. |
| 2012-02-28 2:56 PM in reply to: #4070835 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar synthetic - 2012-02-28 2:50 PM 1) you have the potential to bonk if your body is not adapted for using fat as fuel. 2) yes sugar enters quicker, that is why I mentioned Gi index and using fat as fuel must be more carefully planned. 3) Intensity will be a matter of conditioning. To point 1 - how does one adapt to burning fat as fuel. Everyone is able to burn fat as fuel and the overwhelming conclusion that I have seen is that substrate utilization is based primarily on intensity and then on diet. It is possible to burn lots of fat as fuel, but it requires exercising at a lower intensity and eating a higher fat diet. Beyond that, I have seen nothing that would indicate a bonk can be delayed by anything other than consuming carbs or slowing down. For point 2 - since fat supplies, even in the leanest athlete, is basically unlimited by carbs are quite limited, wouldn't exogenoic carbohydrate make more sense than exogenic fat? Finally, to point 3 - intensity is always a matter of conditioning but at high intensity, the body has about 90 minutes of carbs stored. If one wants to race at this intensity, they will need to supplement with carbs. Otherwise, they need to go slower. While one can improve fat oxidation through a few different means, it doesn't appear that burning fat preferentially leads to improved performance or that exogenic fat would be beneficial or advisable during exercise. If you have sources that contradict this, I would love to see them. Shane |
| 2012-02-28 6:03 PM in reply to: #4067653 |
Extreme Veteran 635 Georgia | Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar Fwiw, Glycemic index Maltodextrin 105, fructose 19, glucose 100, sucrose -granulated table sugar 68, honey 55. Edited by mxr746 2012-02-28 6:04 PM |
| 2012-02-28 6:15 PM in reply to: #4067653 |
| Member 796 Malvern, PA | Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar I don't have much to add...but I am confident that HFCS is no better/worse than "regular" sugar, or even honey for that matter. It is subsidized by the gov't and that may be an issue. I agree it's best to consume simple sugars (mono and/or di-saccharides) during a workout that is longer than say 2 hours, as your liver has approx 2000 calories of glycogen stored in it. I also agree it's not wise for people to be consuming more calories than they burn, and sugar/hfcs has become a large part of the typical american's dietary intake. |
| 2012-02-28 11:18 PM in reply to: #4071146 |
Extreme Veteran 389 | Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar gsmacleod - 2012-02-28 2:56 PM synthetic - 2012-02-28 2:50 PM 1) you have the potential to bonk if your body is not adapted for using fat as fuel. To point 1 - how does one adapt to burning fat as fuel. Everyone is able to burn fat as fuel and the overwhelming conclusion that I have seen is that substrate utilization is based primarily on intensity and then on diet. It is possible to burn lots of fat as fuel, but it requires exercising at a lower intensity and eating a higher fat diet. Beyond that, I have seen nothing that would indicate a bonk can be delayed by anything other than consuming carbs or slowing down. For point 2 - since fat supplies, even in the leanest athlete, is basically unlimited by carbs are quite limited, wouldn't exogenoic carbohydrate make more sense than exogenic fat? Finally, to point 3 - intensity is always a matter of conditioning but at high intensity, the body has about 90 minutes of carbs stored. If one wants to race at this intensity, they will need to supplement with carbs. Otherwise, they need to go slower. While one can improve fat oxidation through a few different means, it doesn't appear that burning fat preferentially leads to improved performance or that exogenic fat would be beneficial or advisable during exercise. If you have sources that contradict this, I would love to see them. Shane2) yes sugar enters quicker, that is why I mentioned Gi index and using fat as fuel must be more carefully planned. 3) Intensity will be a matter of conditioning.
there are just not enough well thought out studies to prove it yet...
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/sports-nutrition-should-athletes-use-fat-or-carbohydrate-as-fuel-631 |
| 2012-02-29 9:45 AM in reply to: #4071953 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar So, you're saying you have no sources? Maybe I will cancel my bulk olive oil order... |
| 2012-02-29 10:34 AM in reply to: #4072568 |
Extreme Veteran 389 | Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar did you bother reading the article? recent studies shown fat is better but there are many criticisms to the studies, as the same with carbo studies |
| 2012-02-29 10:52 AM in reply to: #4072729 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Suicide by Sugar synthetic - 2012-02-29 11:34 AM did you bother reading the article? recent studies shown fat is better but there are many criticisms to the studies, as the same with carbo studies Yes. I read the article, thanks. |
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