General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Swim the race distance (practice) Rss Feed  
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2012-08-13 3:18 PM

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Subject: Swim the race distance (practice)

I'm sure there's a thread addressing this, BUUT, should one have swam the race distance (1500m in this case) before the race in it's entirety before the race?  Do the race distance as a total of swim practice consisting of drills??Do a %age of the total distance??? 

Thoughts and plans appreciated.



2012-08-13 3:26 PM
in reply to: #4361190

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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)
I would not recommend any athlete start any triathlon unless they are able to swim at least 1000m more than the race distance in a workout. IMO, a regular swim workout for an olympic distance athlete should be at least in the 2500m range and, if possible, hitting 3000m regularly.

Remember, that not only do you need to be able to swim the distance but you must be able to swim the distance and then exit the water to ride and run. Therefore, the swim distance should be something that you can do with ease.

Shane
2012-08-13 3:36 PM
in reply to: #4361190

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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)
I'm using Fitzgerald's HIM level 6 plan for my race in September. It's 20 weeks long and I believe every swim workout from week 7 on is as long or longer then the 2112 yds on race day. Just an n=1 example.
2012-08-13 3:43 PM
in reply to: #4361190

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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)

I'd definitely recommend being able to swim your race distance non-stop in practice prior to attempting the race. 
If nothing else it's good psychologically knowing that you can comfortably complete the distance, plus you get a feel for the pacing.

Assuming your logs are accurate, I'd say you are woefully underprepared for your swim.  You haven't been swimming much more than 1500m/month, let alone continuously.  The longest set I saw was only 500m.

An old rule of thumb is that you should be swimming a total of three times your race distance per week in training.

Could you do it on less?  Sure, but I don't think it's a very good idea. 

Mark

 

 

 

2012-08-13 3:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)
Pool time is one thing but I would also think you would want race distance plus at least once in open water before the race too.  Maybe even see if there is an OWS only race that's comparable to the race distance.
2012-08-13 4:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)
I will also concur with the others on training beyond the race distance and add a reason - that the swim course may run long. My first Olympic tri, the swim had to have been at least 150-200m long. 


2012-08-13 5:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)
RedCorvette - 2012-08-13 1:43 PM

An old rule of thumb is that you should be swimming a total of three times your race distance per week in training.

Mark

Yup!  Or at the very least, be able to do this much at peak before race day.

2012-08-14 9:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)
While over-swimming in preparation has its place for first timers, I generally recommend that you break the swim down to repeat 100s with 5 seconds rest. You do these at race pace. 5 secs gives you only enough time to turn around, get a couple of deep breaths and push off. Check the clock. Each one should be within a 2 to 3 second range at whatever speed your race pace is.
2012-08-15 7:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)

if your swim is in open water, there is a good chance you will have to swim a good bit more than the distance --- currents, sighting issues, getting around crowds.  i know i like to swim outside to create an empty lane, which i also know gives me a longer swim course.

and like pointed out before, that swim is followed up by a lot more work!

2012-08-15 7:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)
I strongly agree with all of the above . Keep in mind that in an ow race environment you will find yourself.expending more energy than just swimming in the pool or ows practice by yourself due to direction changes, swim ming around people, etc
2012-08-15 1:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)

gsmacleod - 2012-08-13 4:26 PM I would not recommend any athlete start any triathlon unless they are able to swim at least 1000m more than the race distance in a workout. IMO, a regular swim workout for an olympic distance athlete should be at least in the 2500m range and, if possible, hitting 3000m regularly. Remember, that not only do you need to be able to swim the distance but you must be able to swim the distance and then exit the water to ride and run. Therefore, the swim distance should be something that you can do with ease. Shane

E=H2O - 2012-08-14 10:14 PM While over-swimming in preparation has its place for first timers, I generally recommend that you break the swim down to repeat 100s with 5 seconds rest. You do these at race pace. 5 secs gives you only enough time to turn around, get a couple of deep breaths and push off. Check the clock. Each one should be within a 2 to 3 second range at whatever speed your race pace is.

I agree with both the above.  The "standard" session that I shoot to have my athletes doing prior to an oly is a main set of 20 x 100's at an interval of their T1000 pace + 5 seconds.  For example, if they swim a 1,000 TT in 17:30, that's 1:45 per 100, so their main set would be 20 x 100 @ 1:50.  Combined with the warmup, drills, and cool down, the entire training session will be about 3,000 yds.  Of course, this is in addition to adequate ows training.



2012-08-15 2:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)

gsmacleod - 2012-08-13 4:26 PM I would not recommend any athlete start any triathlon unless they are able to swim at least 1000m more than the race distance in a workout.

x2 on this. Its a phychological necessity for me to know that I can comfortably to this. But I only do it once. For subsequent races at that distance I rarely swim more than 1000m in any set.

 

2012-08-15 2:22 PM
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2012-08-15 7:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)

gsmacleod - 2012-08-13 1:26 PM I would not recommend any athlete start any triathlon unless they are able to swim at least 1000m more than the race distance in a workout. IMO, a regular swim workout for an olympic distance athlete should be at least in the 2500m range and, if possible, hitting 3000m regularly. Remember, that not only do you need to be able to swim the distance but you must be able to swim the distance and then exit the water to ride and run. Therefore, the swim distance should be something that you can do with ease. Shane

That seems kind of extreme for shorter distances like a 500M swim race O_o



Edited by ayabrea 2012-08-15 7:14 PM
2012-08-15 8:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)
ayabrea - 2012-08-15 9:13 PM

That seems kind of extreme for shorter distances like a 500M swim race O_o



I would suggest that being able to do a 1500m workout is far from extreme. Even supposing 4:00/100m, that's only an hour in the pool and likely around the time the race will take them.

Shane

2012-08-15 9:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)

gsmacleod - 2012-08-15 6:11 PM
ayabrea - 2012-08-15 9:13 PM That seems kind of extreme for shorter distances like a 500M swim race O_o
I would suggest that being able to do a 1500m workout is far from extreme. Even supposing 4:00/100m, that's only an hour in the pool and likely around the time the race will take them. Shane

If so, by the same logic, would someone training for an Ironman stick in 16 hours of swimming as part of their regular workout? (I don't know, I haven't done an Ironman, is that something you do for training? O_o  You're freaking me out here...)

I'm not saying I can't actually have a combo workout for an hour or two to train for a sprint, and really for the bike and the run it's not a problem, but having regular workouts that load the entire estimated time of finish on just just the swim as a cutoff to even start considering to sign up for an sprint still seems overkill on the safe side to me.  



2012-08-15 11:39 PM
in reply to: #4365490

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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)
ayabrea - 2012-08-15 9:47 PM

gsmacleod - 2012-08-15 6:11 PM
ayabrea - 2012-08-15 9:13 PM That seems kind of extreme for shorter distances like a 500M swim race O_o
I would suggest that being able to do a 1500m workout is far from extreme. Even supposing 4:00/100m, that's only an hour in the pool and likely around the time the race will take them. Shane

If so, by the same logic, would someone training for an Ironman stick in 16 hours of swimming as part of their regular workout? (I don't know, I haven't done an Ironman, is that something you do for training? O_o  You're freaking me out here...)

I'm not saying I can't actually have a combo workout for an hour or two to train for a sprint, and really for the bike and the run it's not a problem, but having regular workouts that load the entire estimated time of finish on just just the swim as a cutoff to even start considering to sign up for an sprint still seems overkill on the safe side to me.  

No, not to sign up. 

But swimming for an hour by the time you get to the race is a very good idea.  Way too many people think they did 25 yards they are good to go for a race.

I'm not an advocate of any sort of mandatory swim check.  But if you come to BT and ask if you should have ever swum the distance before the race then the answer Shane gave is right on.

 

2012-08-16 12:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)

gsmacleod - 2012-08-13 6:26 PM I would not recommend any athlete start any triathlon unless they are able to swim at least 1000m more than the race distance in a workout. IMO, a regular swim workout for an olympic distance athlete should be at least in the 2500m range and, if possible, hitting 3000m regularly. Remember, that not only do you need to be able to swim the distance but you must be able to swim the distance and then exit the water to ride and run. Therefore, the swim distance should be something that you can do with ease. Shane

 

Shane,

Just to be clear, you are saying the swim workout duration for an Oly should regularly be in the 2500-3000 meter range.   You are not saying that someone doing an Oly should regularly swim 2500-3000 meters continuous, right?  

2012-08-16 6:44 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)
ayabrea - 2012-08-15 11:47 PM

If so, by the same logic, would someone training for an Ironman stick in 16 hours of swimming as part of their regular workout? (I don't know, I haven't done an Ironman, is that something you do for training? O_o  You're freaking me out here...)


No, that's why I said I would typically expect an athlete to be able to swim at least 1000m more than there race distance in a swim workout. Generally I don't like seeing an athlete do a swim workout for less than 2500m regardless of what distance they are racing; part of this is because of the time a swim workout takes beyond just time in the pool and part of it is about swim fitness. For most, swimming 500m a couple of times a week just isn't enough time to build solid swim fitness.

I'm not saying I can't actually have a combo workout for an hour or two to train for a sprint, and really for the bike and the run it's not a problem, but having regular workouts that load the entire estimated time of finish on just just the swim as a cutoff to even start considering to sign up for an sprint still seems overkill on the safe side to me.


I didn't say sign up, I said that before racing, I would like to see an athlete able to swim 1000m than their race distance in a workout prior to their race, especially their first.

Shane
2012-08-16 6:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)
dcon - 2012-08-16 2:30 AM

Shane,

Just to be clear, you are saying the swim workout duration for an Oly should regularly be in the 2500-3000 meter range.   You are not saying that someone doing an Oly should regularly swim 2500-3000 meters continuous, right?  



Correct; beyond pyschological benefits, I see little reason for an athlete to do a continuous swims of more than 500m on a regular basis. Longer swims and test sets can have an occasional place in a swim training program but when I say 2500-3000m, I mean entire workout, broken up into wu, drills/band/pull, mainset, cd.

Shane
2012-08-16 11:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)
TriMyBest - 2012-08-15 2:36 PM

I agree with both the above.  The "standard" session that I shoot to have my athletes doing prior to an oly is a main set of 20 x 100's at an interval of their T1000 pace + 5 seconds.  For example, if they swim a 1,000 TT in 17:30, that's 1:45 per 100, so their main set would be 20 x 100 @ 1:50.  Combined with the warmup, drills, and cool down, the entire training session will be about 3,000 yds.  Of course, this is in addition to adequate ows training.

 

Don

What type of rest are you doing on the above set?



2012-08-16 12:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)
qrkid - 2012-08-16 11:58 AM
TriMyBest - 2012-08-15 2:36 PM

I agree with both the above.  The "standard" session that I shoot to have my athletes doing prior to an oly is a main set of 20 x 100's at an interval of their T1000 pace + 5 seconds.  For example, if they swim a 1,000 TT in 17:30, that's 1:45 per 100, so their main set would be 20 x 100 @ 1:50.  Combined with the warmup, drills, and cool down, the entire training session will be about 3,000 yds.  Of course, this is in addition to adequate ows training.

 Don

What type of rest are you doing on the above set?

The 1:50 is a send-off interval, so the "rest period" is whatever is left over from swimming the 100. If he swims it in 1:45, then 5 sec rest. 1:49 means 1 sec.

2012-08-16 12:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)

I started swimming a few months ago and after I became somewhat comfortable with my understanding of "how" to swim (still far from perfect/expert) I started the 0-1650 program.  One thing I learned is that whatever your initial pace is when you start swimming (you usually try to go faster because you think you need to in order to stay afloat) you need to slow it down.  Once I slowed my pace down my endurance and form improved dramatically.  

To directly answer your question and from the perspective of someone who was in your shoes I would recommend definitely being able to swim the distance and add a margin for error to it.  The psychological benefits are huge, in addition to the physical.  

2012-08-16 1:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)

Everyone listen to Shane, not me.  But, as an anecdote, before my last sprint (750m swim), my Masters coach had the people doing the race put in a 15 min continuous swim as part of the 1 hour workout.  Her logic was to get us reassociated with the boredom from the continuous OWS and to focus on holding form for that amount to time.  While we never do that sort of swim otherwise, I really liked it a few days before the race for the reasons she stated.

ETA: This group could swim the distance no problem, so it was unrelated to that sort of test.

 



Edited by Goosedog 2012-08-16 1:29 PM
2012-08-16 1:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim the race distance (practice)

Goosedog - 2012-08-16 11:26

 as an anecdote, before my last sprint (750m swim), my Masters coach had the people doing the race put in a 15 min continuous swim as part of the 1 hour workout.  Her logic was to get us reassociated with the boredom from the continuous OWS and to focus on holding form for that amount to time.  .

 

I always start my workout with a 1,000 yard warmup swim. It seems to me that if you can't focus on swimming that period of time already, you should stick to 50 sprints (and even those swimmers do a warmup nearly that long)

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