Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time (Page 2)
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2012-10-19 2:38 PM in reply to: #4460327 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time Reading the ST thread, clearly this guy has been a rule violator for many years in Tris. Many on ST have had many encounters with him. If you read the pdf, section 5.4 they talk about how he took T inconsistently to the chagrin of his Doctor, but he did take it regularly. I just finished reading Tyler Hamilton's book and am saddened about the extent of doping in pro cycling. Why AGers that are doping, makes no sense to me. But I have desire to try to win or qualify for Kona. I wonder what % of triathletes in an IM or HIM dope? |
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2012-10-19 2:51 PM in reply to: #4460327 |
Pro 4578 Vancouver, BC | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time There was a Canadian cyclist this year who got sanctioned for taking Testosterone. There a forum on the canadiancyclist site that discusses the difficulty of getting a TUE for testosterone if anyone is interested. |
2012-10-19 4:32 PM in reply to: #4460327 |
Expert 1233 | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time Here is what sucks for me. I'm in the 50+ group and have been a body builder since the age of 16. No doubt people will wonder (heck, I'm starting to think that about all the cyclists who beat me)!
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2012-10-21 5:54 AM in reply to: #4460327 |
Elite 3495 SE | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time KathyG , I wonder that too. I think the % of using T is higher than we all suspect. It really bothers many of us and many have lost Kona or Vegas slots to these jokers. |
2012-10-21 9:31 AM in reply to: #4460327 |
Veteran 307 Liberty Lake, WA | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time Pretty clear that the testosterone was prescribed by a doctor's and the defendant was using it inconsistently, but legally. The defendant merely failed to correctly follow the red-tape involved in getting a TUE. I personally wouldn't call this a doping violation, but who knows. |
2012-10-21 10:02 AM in reply to: #4462262 |
Expert 1233 | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time xine2kgts - 2012-10-21 10:31 AM Pretty clear that the testosterone was prescribed by a doctor's and the defendant was using it inconsistently, but legally. The defendant merely failed to correctly follow the red-tape involved in getting a TUE. I personally wouldn't call this a doping violation, but who knows.
KM is that you? Take a look at the thread on ST for a very detailed analysis of this situation. Who knows: well it appears that the governing bodies do.
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2012-10-21 11:37 AM in reply to: #4460327 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time Just because a doctor prescribed testosterone doesn't mean they will get a tue. |
2012-10-21 11:41 AM in reply to: #4460758 |
Science Nerd 28760 Redwood City, California | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time gsmacleod - 2012-10-19 12:51 PM Left Brain - 2012-10-19 1:40 PM This AG'er simply didn't have a note from his doctor.....or we'd never hear about it. Much ado about nothing in this particular case. This is incorrect; every athlete needs to have a TUE in place for testosterone or they are in violation. While for most meds, simply having a prescription from a doctor would be sufficient to obtain a retroactive TUE, the rules are different for some drugs, such as testosterone. ShaneOut of curiosity, is there a list of drugs that require a TUE? I've always wondered if that is required because I use albuterol for my asthma. |
2012-10-21 4:51 PM in reply to: #4462315 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time Artemis - 2012-10-21 1:41 PM Out of curiosity, is there a list of drugs that require a TUE? I've always wondered if that is required because I use albuterol for my asthma. You can check any medication at http://www.globaldro.orgto learn its status both in and out of competition. Shane |
2012-10-21 6:46 PM in reply to: #4462187 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time phatknot - 2012-10-21 5:54 AM KathyG , I wonder that too. I think the % of using T is higher than we all suspect. It really bothers many of us and many have lost Kona or Vegas slots to these jokers.
I promise you the % is WAY higher than you suspect. As I've already posted on another thread, I've had numerous conversations with guys in my AG (50-54) about it. As far as I know, all of the guys who say they take it have a script from their doctor. After Shane's post I have been doing some research.....I bet a TUE is harder to get than most believe. I was under the mistaken impression that a Doctor's prescription would suffice. I wouldn't take it....just don't care to....but now I'm curious. I may try to get a TUE just to see if I could. Make no mistake, I still wouldn't take it....I'm good with where I am....but there is only one way to skin this cat, and that's to see if it can be done. |
2012-10-21 6:51 PM in reply to: #4462187 |
Expert 1233 | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time phatknot - 2012-10-21 6:54 AM KathyG , I wonder that too. I think the % of using T is higher than we all suspect. It really bothers many of us and many have lost Kona or Vegas slots to these jokers.
The gentleman who placed 4th at IMFL (the age group doper placed first) posted on ST. Only three slots available, so this guy didn't get to go to Kona.
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2012-10-21 7:00 PM in reply to: #4460327 |
Expert 1233 | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time What really confuses me is that many studies show the link between taking testosterone and a greatly increase risk of cancer, prostrate in particular. Now with Low-T therapy a money maker for the medical community, that link seems to be minimized. I'm in triathlons for my health, love the podium, but given the choice between FOP and increasing my risk for cancer, or just being there....not even a close decision. (heck, in some races I can only wish for MOP)!
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2012-10-22 6:04 PM in reply to: #4462639 |
Regular 173 | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time I would suspect that lots of us are dopers and don't even realize it. The list of prohibited or regulated substances is extensive mind boggling. Who knows what is really in the protien powder I purchased at GNC. For example, I take a 12 hour pseudophed (pseudoephedrine hydrocholoride) before events... have allergies and it helps keep my nose clear so I can breathe. BUT... I recently discovered that this common cold medicine is prohibited in competition at levels over ?150 micrograms/ml. Most of us have no idea what that means.. would I have to take a dozen cold tablets to be in violation or just one? The WADA warns that taking the correct theraputic daily dosage of this over the coutner medication within 24hrs of competition can result in a positive (a failed drug test). I suspect that if we all were subjected to the same level of scrutiny that professionals are that we would have age group doping scandals left and right.
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2012-10-22 6:17 PM in reply to: #4464282 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time bluebike - 2012-10-22 8:04 PM I would suspect that lots of us are dopers and don't even realize it. The list of prohibited or regulated substances is extensive mind boggling. Actually, in the internet age, it is very easy: http://www.globaldro.org Who knows what is really in the protien powder I purchased at GNC. A great reason not to spend money on supplements. Shane |
2012-10-22 6:36 PM in reply to: #4464314 |
Regular 173 | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time gsmacleod - 2012-10-22 4:17 PM bluebike - 2012-10-22 8:04 PM Actually, in the internet age, it is very easy: http://www.globaldro.orgI would suspect that lots of us are dopers and don't even realize it. The list of prohibited or regulated substances is extensive mind boggling. Who knows what is really in the protien powder I purchased at GNC. A great reason not to spend money on supplements. ShaneA bit of a glib response.... so you think that all age groupers should be online searching ALL the ingredients in everything you eat and everything that might be in things you eat that you are unaware of and ALL the otc medications and perscriptions you take are WADA Ok just to participate as an AG in a local tri or crit or century? Seems a bit unrealistic. If Contador can make a convincing case that he ate tainted beef despite having a cadre of doctors and coaches supervising his training, it is not unreasonalbe to think that many age groupers with no ill intent are on the wrong side of the doping line. |
2012-10-22 6:48 PM in reply to: #4460327 |
Elite 4547 | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time A one year ban is a joke. It should be a minimum of 10 years. As for folks taking testosterone supplements, sorry, I just don't think they deserve to podium over folks that are not supplementing. That's just my uneducated opinion...there aren't enough of those on the internet already. |
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2012-10-22 7:16 PM in reply to: #4460327 |
Extreme Veteran 556 | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time I think she's doping. Any other reason she can do IMs year after year?
Edited by mattramirez 2012-10-22 7:37 PM |
2012-10-22 8:12 PM in reply to: #4464340 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time bluebike - 2012-10-22 7:36 PM gsmacleod - 2012-10-22 4:17 PM bluebike - 2012-10-22 8:04 PM Actually, in the internet age, it is very easy: http://www.globaldro.orgI would suspect that lots of us are dopers and don't even realize it. The list of prohibited or regulated substances is extensive mind boggling. Who knows what is really in the protien powder I purchased at GNC. A great reason not to spend money on supplements. ShaneA bit of a glib response.... so you think that all age groupers should be online searching ALL the ingredients in everything you eat and everything that might be in things you eat that you are unaware of and ALL the otc medications and perscriptions you take are WADA Ok just to participate as an AG in a local tri or crit or century? Seems a bit unrealistic. Well, as long as we're being realistic:
If Contador can make a convincing case that he ate tainted beef despite having a cadre of doctors and coaches supervising his training, it is not unreasonalbe to think that many age groupers with no ill intent are on the wrong side of the doping line. Contador's case was not convincing. No ill intent is certainly better than ill intent, but it is not an excuse. Edited by Experior 2012-10-22 8:24 PM |
2012-10-22 8:30 PM in reply to: #4464340 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time bluebike - 2012-10-22 8:36 PM A bit of a glib response.... so you think that all age groupers should be online searching ALL the ingredients in everything you eat and everything that might be in things you eat that you are unaware of and ALL the otc medications and perscriptions you take are WADA Ok just to participate as an AG in a local tri or crit or century? Seems a bit unrealistic. If Contador can make a convincing case that he ate tainted beef despite having a cadre of doctors and coaches supervising his training, it is not unreasonalbe to think that many age groupers with no ill intent are on the wrong side of the doping line. Not glib at all; I teach my youth and juniors how to use the Global DRO and encourage them to use it for any medication they take, prescription or OTC. Try the DRO, it's easy to use and will give you some piece of mind should you ever get selected for a doping control test (very unlikely). Shane |
2012-10-22 8:33 PM in reply to: #4460327 |
Champion 7704 Williamston, Michigan | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time Here is USADAs list http://www.usada.org/prohibited-list/ I don't know how this crosses over to WTC. Pseudafed is banned because in shooting they get some advantage from it. A romanian gymnast was stripped of her gold all around medal for testing positive for pseudafed her team doc gave her for a cold not knowing it was banned (STUPID). Tragic because it did not enhance her performance and actually hurt her performance. Unfortunately if its bad X sport its banned for all weather or not it would give you an edge at least at an olympic level which is really all I can speak to. Being a BOPPER go ahead and test me. What are they going to do? Strip me of 2000th place for taking pseudofed when I raced am IM with a cold? that would be a total joke. Even if I took a true performance enhaner; which I would not do, I would still not win or place. Cheaters suck. I'd rather be 2000th place honestly thankyouverymuch |
2012-10-22 9:14 PM in reply to: #4460327 |
New user 347 | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time what's sad is that I could take the stuff and still not podium .... |
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2012-10-23 7:54 AM in reply to: #4460327 |
Extreme Veteran 668 , Minnesota | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time I'll weigh in and please know this is merely my opinion. I lost 110 pounds a few years ago and my endocrine system crashed. My Test levels were down in the low 200s and I felt like crap. I was tired and getting injured often. I saw a specialist, he ran tests and after research put me on HRT (test gel). My levels in the last 2 years are in the mid 500 range (normal is 280 to about 800). I feel like a normal person now. I am a MOP athlete and may never podium. I would love to do an Ironman in a couple years but can envision being the "lucky" one to get snagged. Do I think I'm "doping"? No. Do some? Yes. That being said, I think there s a HUGE difference between someone like myself vs. someone who is getting their levels way above the normal range say 1500, doing HGH, and so on and making money off doing so. I'd LOVE to not have to do this and have even considered stopping (heavily leaning that way) but I also don't want to go back to feeling like crap all day either. I've looked into natural alternatives like D-Aspartic Acid. I've contemplated trying to get a TUE but it sounds like I would more than likely not be granted one anyway. I'm mentally caught between a rock and a hard place because I want and have every intention of doing an IM but would be crushed if I got snagged and even banned over something that is completely legit on the medical end. Edited by lakelandsledder 2012-10-23 7:56 AM |
2012-10-23 8:07 AM in reply to: #4464874 |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time lakelandsledder - 2012-10-23 8:54 AM I've contemplated trying to get a TUE but it sounds like I would more than likely not be granted one anyway. I'm mentally caught between a rock and a hard place because I want and have every intention of doing an IM but would be crushed if I got snagged and even banned over something that is completely legit on the medical end. First, congrats on the weight loss and I'm glad you're feeling better. It's really pretty simple, get a TUE or you are breaking the rules. I understand your dilemma, but don't kid yourself. Rules are rules. I would try to get the TUE. At that point, if you're denied and still race, you know exactly what risk you are running. If it were me, I don't think I would sacrifice feeling good all the time in exchange for a race. There are plenty of options to push yourself athletically that don't involve breaking the rules.
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2012-10-23 1:38 PM in reply to: #4464886 |
Master 1484 Sedona, AZ | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time Goosedog - 2012-10-23 6:07 AM lakelandsledder - 2012-10-23 8:54 AM I've contemplated trying to get a TUE but it sounds like I would more than likely not be granted one anyway. I'm mentally caught between a rock and a hard place because I want and have every intention of doing an IM but would be crushed if I got snagged and even banned over something that is completely legit on the medical end. First, congrats on the weight loss and I'm glad you're feeling better. It's really pretty simple, get a TUE or you are breaking the rules. I understand your dilemma, but don't kid yourself. Rules are rules. I would try to get the TUE. At that point, if you're denied and still race, you know exactly what risk you are running. If it were me, I don't think I would sacrifice feeling good all the time in exchange for a race. There are plenty of options to push yourself athletically that don't involve breaking the rules. I'm in agreement. Taking a testosterone supplement is doping. Try to get a TUE if you can. You can keep racing, but if you podium or get kona slots or anything I think DQ'ing yourself is the appropriate thing to do. You my also be able to get permission from WTC or Rev3 to race in their events without a TUE with the understanding that you won't take any prizes/slots/etc. Laying all your cards on the table is your best bet. |
2012-10-23 1:58 PM in reply to: #4465683 |
Extreme Veteran 668 , Minnesota | Subject: RE: Another Age Grouper Doping Case - Tri This Time MonkeyClaw - 2012-10-23 1:38 PM Goosedog - 2012-10-23 6:07 AM lakelandsledder - 2012-10-23 8:54 AM I've contemplated trying to get a TUE but it sounds like I would more than likely not be granted one anyway. I'm mentally caught between a rock and a hard place because I want and have every intention of doing an IM but would be crushed if I got snagged and even banned over something that is completely legit on the medical end. First, congrats on the weight loss and I'm glad you're feeling better. It's really pretty simple, get a TUE or you are breaking the rules. I understand your dilemma, but don't kid yourself. Rules are rules. I would try to get the TUE. At that point, if you're denied and still race, you know exactly what risk you are running. If it were me, I don't think I would sacrifice feeling good all the time in exchange for a race. There are plenty of options to push yourself athletically that don't involve breaking the rules. I'm in agreement. Taking a testosterone supplement is doping. Try to get a TUE if you can. You can keep racing, but if you podium or get kona slots or anything I think DQ'ing yourself is the appropriate thing to do. You my also be able to get permission from WTC or Rev3 to race in their events without a TUE with the understanding that you won't take any prizes/slots/etc. Laying all your cards on the table is your best bet. Overall I agree. I just think there is a slight difference between people trying to stack the cards in their favor vs. people doing it for legit medical reasons and I think the WTC and other bodies need to recognize this. If I stay on the HRT I'll attempt to get a TUE. One things for sure, I don't believe anyone will have to worry about me taking their Kona slot.....I'll be thrilled to make it under 15 hrs! LOL! |
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