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2013-01-05 1:47 PM

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Subject: Maffetone method
I have read and heard of training by HR and/or associated zones, but have always trained by RPE. Due to repetitive injuries, i think i want to incorporate Maffetone Method into my training....maybe. Anyone train with this method? Adusting for cycling swimming? Thoughts? Thanks.


2013-01-05 2:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Maffetone method

Here is an article that explains the most common methods:  http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=405

A better method is to perform lactate threshold testing to determine heart rate zones for training.  Here's a thread that discusses testing protocols for both bike and run:  http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25733&start=1

Your zones will be different for the bike and running.

 

2013-01-05 3:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Maffetone method
My coach has me running using the Maffetone method.  It was really frustrating at first to run so slowly (about 15 bpm lower than my "normal" Zone 2 running pace, but I am seeing the benefits.  I'm coming off of a broken heel injury and this way of running is really easy on the body.  I think the main benefit is that over time, I'll be running faster but at a lower overall HR.
2013-01-06 10:24 AM
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Subject: RE: Maffetone method
mountain_erin - 2013-01-05 4:10 PMMy coach has me running using the Maffetone method.  It was really frustrating at first to run so slowly (about 15 bpm lower than my "normal" Zone 2 running pace, but I am seeing the benefits.  I'm coming off of a broken heel injury and this way of running is really easy on the body.  I think the main benefit is that over time, I'll be running faster but at a lower overall HR.
Good quick summary of the benefits. I think many people get hung up on his targeted HR based on your age. I think the overall theme is that in the beginning you need to run slower than you think. This allows you to build frequency and then volume. He does prescribe some speed work. I've been following the run easy advice for a few months as I recovered from a stress fracture. I am running longer and more frequent than ever and my HR levels during runs have never been lower. I've started adding in speed as I'm following a Hansons HM plan, but I think Maffetone is more than directionally correct.
2013-01-06 3:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Maffetone method
Mark Allen's triathlon training business is based upon the Maffetone method.   It might be the way to go for some of us.   It might be good for the long term.   Other methods have been used with  success.  George Sheenhan may have stated it best; "you are an experiement of one". 
2013-01-06 4:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Maffetone method

I started doing the Maffetone Training Method in November and so far I'm a believer.  I've been very faithful to staying below the aerobic threshold (even clocked my slowest 1/2 marathon time in the process), but I'm seeing the payoff.  Today I did my second "MAF" test and I'm averaging about 35 seconds faster per mile.  I'm somewhat of a "data nerd" so I've written the results up in my blog here (look for the Maffetone #2 post):

http://trited.blogspot.com/2013/01/maffetone-2.html



2013-01-06 6:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Maffetone method
Today, i ran 5 miles with HR monitor for the first time. I averaged 160 bpm and thought i was crawling. According to Maff, i should have been at 140(upper limit). Slow downmore?
2013-01-06 7:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Maffetone method

Yes,

If you are doing the Maffetone method you will need to slow down to within about 10 beats or your range.  This will drive you absolutely crazy at first, because you will be moving slowly (maybe even walking at some points).  My understanding is that you can train above your threshold for some of your workouts, but you will gain efficiency more quickly by doing as many or all of your workouts at close to threshold.

2013-01-07 8:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Maffetone method
Thanks Ted. Do you use this with your cycling?
2013-01-07 9:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Maffetone method
I've used it with great success.
2013-01-07 11:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Maffetone method

If you have a Garmin, set the alarm for your MAF HR limit.

On a weekly basis, my coach has me doing my long runs as MAF runs, one recovery (shorter) run lower than my MAF limit (probably to ensure I go very easy), and I have one interval run.  It is really frustrating at first because turtles will be moving faster than you.  It was not uncommon to see paces of 13:00 min/miles for me in the beginning.  Slow down or walk as needed.  I'd also suggest reading the book Chi Running, as his relaxation and breathing techniques REALLY helped me in keeping my HR down during my runs.

For cycling, my coach isn't having me do MAF based workouts.  Right now I'm doing mostly interval training for strength.



2013-01-07 12:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Maffetone method

mad-dog - 2013-01-06 7:15 PM Today, i ran 5 miles with HR monitor for the first time. I averaged 160 bpm and thought i was crawling. According to Maff, i should have been at 140(upper limit). Slow down more?

Now do the LT test (linked) and see what your zones are.  I know someone with a run LT of 188, mine is 176, we are about the same age.  Here's how the zones look and why LT makes more sense to use if you want to do HR based training:

LT 188, Zone 1 124-159, Zone 2 160-171, per MAF method ~135. 

LT 176, Zone 1 116-149, Zone 2 150-160, per MAF method 132.

He also is one that when he runs his HR immediately jumps up.  I'm on the other side, my HR climb is very slow in comparison.

LT is based on your physiology, and what is nice with HR training is that you'll quickly learn to correlate RPE (pace) to the zones and you won't be slave to HR zones other than guidance and seeing effects of creep, hydration, impending illness, etc.



Edited by Donto 2013-01-07 12:04 PM
2013-01-07 1:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Maffetone method
Thanks for replies. Donto your MAF is 132, but you use,via your LT Z1, hr of 149 as maximum if you wish to stay aerobic during running? Is this correct?
2013-01-07 1:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Maffetone method
Donto - 2013-01-07 1:02 PM

mad-dog - 2013-01-06 7:15 PM Today, i ran 5 miles with HR monitor for the first time. I averaged 160 bpm and thought i was crawling. According to Maff, i should have been at 140(upper limit). Slow down more?

Now do the LT test (linked) and see what your zones are.  I know someone with a run LT of 188, mine is 176, we are about the same age.  Here's how the zones look and why LT makes more sense to use if you want to do HR based training:

LT 188, Zone 1 124-159, Zone 2 160-171, per MAF method ~135. 

LT 176, Zone 1 116-149, Zone 2 150-160, per MAF method 132.

He also is one that when he runs his HR immediately jumps up.  I'm on the other side, my HR climb is very slow in comparison.

LT is based on your physiology, and what is nice with HR training is that you'll quickly learn to correlate RPE (pace) to the zones and you won't be slave to HR zones other than guidance and seeing effects of creep, hydration, impending illness, etc.

I agree with what you wrote - and actually think Phil Mafetone would agree.  His argument is that to do an accurate test is very difficult.  He ascertained that for a large majority his simple equation was close enough.  I am one who would argue that my "MAF Target" is higher than my age would suggest.  That is why I haven't followed his philosophy too religously.  I have followed it to the extent that for quite awhile most of my runs were upper zone 1.  I think that is the benefit of his philosophy.  If you are not inclined to do a threshold test then his formula gets you close enough.

2013-01-07 2:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Maffetone method

mad-dog - 2013-01-07 2:24 PM Thanks for replies. Donto your MAF is 132, but you use,via your LT Z1, hr of 149 as maximum if you wish to stay aerobic during running? Is this correct?

Zone 1 & Zone 2, depends on the training focus for the day.

Read this article from Coach Mike (Zone 1 and Zone 2 Training Explained)

2013-01-07 7:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Maffetone method
Yeah, and I keep the heart rate the same for both.  My experience is that bike effort is more intense at that low rate than a run.  That said, I'm a much stronger runner than cyclist.


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