Little lessons learned the hard way.....

You story reminded me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ycoXiEDBZk

Hang in there mom!

Oh my gosh yes! Exactly! Except why is it funny when I'm watching someone elses kid?

I have the same age, well he's 19 months now, smart little SOB too, but we started using timeouts and being consistent with it and he turned the corner really well.  If he touches something he's not supposed to or throws something out of anger we pick him up and put him on the bottom stair for 30 seconds.  He's totally testing us, he'll put his finger right up to the TV cable box power button, look at me, I'll say no, then he'll touch it and before he can even attempt to run away his a$$ is on that bottom stair.  We're actually to the point now where we can pick him up and put him near the stair and tell him to sit down and he'll stay there until we tell him to get up.  It's a constant battle.  Best of luck.

To the OP, I admire you sticking to your guns with your daughter.  I hope I can do that when my son gets old enough to really push my buttons.

See, not my child - this is just cute and funny .

Yes, I've had to stop brother from doing whatever it is she is screaming about just because he wants her to be quiet!

That quote is a good idea!

We've started to do the timeout thing by putting him in his crib (I don't have anywhere else to actually contain him in my house and no way he'd stay in one spot, I can't even get him to sit in my lap for 5 seconds). I'll have to be more consistent with it I guess.

It's worth the effort. If he leaves the timeout space, just pick him up and put him back. Might take an hour the first time but it's an investment - he has to do the time willingly not just because he can't escape. (Using sleeping space as punishment space has issues too)

I did the head-to-head battle with my first toddler only once - never again, ugh. 

That's never an issue. My son is the most adorable little kid I've ever seen.

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30 minutes? It's none of my business, but since your posted it....

Why in the world would you spend 30 minutes dealing with this?

Tell her to do it herself. She refuses, tell her again.
She refuses again. Give her one more chance; do it or x will happen.
She doesn't do it, then x happens.

I'm all about giving kids the opportunity to be independent, but they also must learn about consequences for their actions. It's not giving up or giving in if you do it for her with consequences. It may take a few times, but if you are consistent with follow through, she'll get the message. She'll learn to do what you ask her to do because she'll learn that if she doesn't she will have to deal with consequences that are at least less pleasant than doing the thing you wanted her to do.

First, I don't have kids but we are considering in it the next 5 years.

But I must say this was my thought as well. You were punished for 30 minutes until she just wore herself out. She didn't have anywhere to be or anything more important to do so what was her consequence? Unless she just really hates being in the van...

I would like to hear some more input from actual parents but I have to think that a warning should be issued, if not obeyed a swift consequence should follow and the matter should be over in far less than 30 minutes. 

But as I said I am not a parent, I am just here to learn.

What is your suggestion of X? I'm not challenging you or being snarky. I actual welcome other suggestions.

I'm not surprised at questioning the time and that is not something I typically have time for myself. It's hard to explain without living in the house but sometimes my daughter brings us to a crossroads and I have to stand firm.

I know my daughter and I know the only way for us to move past this obstacle that we encounter several times a day (buckling herself) is to help her realize she can do it herself. And if it takes 5 min or 30 is irrelevant to me - that choice is hers.

To me this was the appropriate consequence - Mommy is not doing it for you. What she wanted more than anything was for me to do it and then guess where we are again tomorrow? So if I say buckle your seat belt or I'm going to start taking your toys away when we get home (as a different example of consequences not suggesting this is what you had in mind) then how is that relevant to overcoming this obstacle in the future? This was the day to face this issue and take it down. 

Since the fit she has buckled her own seat belt every time we go somewhere with no screaming and yesterday told me I don't need help, I can do it myself. Her overall behavior during other day to day tasks has also improved. So what is 30 min in the grand scheme of things?

Sounds OH SO familiar. I've a whole section of my blog dedicated to tantrums.

ETA:  I think you did well, Mama.

My wife and I love kids. I teach high school, and she used to work at a school for the deaf. we have 16 nieces and nephews between us. We have also done foster care and plan on doing it again. we also know that we are much better at being the temporary parents and the "fun" aunt and uncle.

Again, the choice was hers. I did not punish her, she punished herself. She had other choices of how to handle the problem but she chose to have tantrum. Her consequence was not getting me to do the task for her. And she was far from wore out as she proceeded to sing and dance in the living room all evening when we got home.

As I said, she is a strong willed child. She does not care if you take her toys away or give her a time out. If she has a tantrum and I conform to exactly what she has the tantrum about then what is the consequence? You get a time out when you get home? Home is 20 min away so by then she won't even care.  Tomorrow when we get in the van we will face the exact same issue.

My son would be a totally different story. You can tell him your going to take away a Webkinz and he's over it. It's not worth it to him.

Now we are done with it, she buckles herself and we can move on.

Good deal, glad it worked for you. I suppose every child and situation is different. Seemed like your consequence was much worse than hers but if it stopped the bad behavior sounds like it worked fine.

I have no idea what you are talking about:

http://youtu.be/NjYAF_HY7HY

My youngest is 4 also.  There were 15 minutes of "It's too hard, I can't do it" prior to the start of the video.  Some fairly entertaining theatrics too, which is why I started filming.  However the theatrics ran out pretty much when I started filming.  In all fairness, the only reason he was acting this way is because he doesn't want to learn to put away his own laundry.  And that's typically when we see fits like this, when it's something he doesn't want to do, like chores.  On virtually everything else he can't stand it if you help him.  He  wants to do it all by himself.  He gets so mad when I do something for him because I'm in a hurry.

Please don't take any of this as critical of you as a parent, but this is an easy fix.  It takes time and patience, but it is easy.

First off, you have to realize that your child is acting this way because you are letting her act this way.  I know you're rolling your eyes at me now, but hear me out.  Children from the earliest ages push our boundaries and they train us to act a certain way.  For example, when infant baby is in the crib, baby cries, mom comes in.  aha, if I cry mom will show up so I'm going to cry a lot more.  Next thing you know mom is complaining because baby cry's all night long and she can't figure out why. 

It's no different as they get older.  If I don't want to do something I'm going to throw a tantrum, and it gets me what I want.  When it starts to not get me what I want I will just throw a bigger tantrum until I do get what I want.  What you've described sounds like this behavior.

Kids will continue to test you no matter how old they are and depending on how you react to the test determines how they will act and treat you in the future.  If you buckle at the little test, then the next test is a little harsher, and so on and so on.

OK, now how to fix this.  As Dr. Phil would say you have to know your child's currency.  There is something that is important to her.  TV, dolls, McDonalds, whatever that is.  You have to inform her that their behavior is unacceptable and if they don't stop they lose X for a period of time.  Then when they don't stop you HAVE to follow through with zero exceptions and it has to be something that is painful to them.  You have to be 100% consistent on this so don't make the punishment unrealistic such as no TV for a year because you're not going to follow through with that.

Personally we believed in corporal punishment which is admittedly a much easier approach.  You stop screaming or you're gonna get a spanking.  Count to three and whammo.  OK, keep freaking out and you'll get another spanking.  Count to three and whammo.  Sooner or later this approach works very well.  I'm not saying you have to spank your child, but you have to come up with consequences that are unpleasant and they have to be consistent so they know you mean it.

My kids are 18, 16, and 14 now and have pretty much given up on testing us because they know our kung fu is strong and they will lose every time.

There's good stuff there - though, I thought she already showed that she understood her childrens' currency in her previous post - her daughter doesn't respond to having things taken away while that would have worked for her son - so here the best course was patience and making her do it herself which was the goal. So, it took some time?