Best ways to increase biking speed (Page 6)
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2013-04-25 6:48 PM in reply to: #4715336 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed gsmacleod - 2013-04-25 5:47 PM FranzZemen - 2013-04-25 6:09 PM And I'm being persistent because people are really confusing the physics on the low end - anytime you have a mathematical accelerator like a polynomial formula it is important to understand scale. I assure you, I am not confusing the physics. Please feel free to run the numbers. Shane This made me laugh. Shane is one of the last people I'd want to debate physics with.
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2013-04-25 7:24 PM in reply to: #4715456 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed TriMyBest - 2013-04-25 8:42 PM Yes, you are making the wrong conclusion, but not the one that you're questioning. Strength training will improve your 15 second and 1 minute sprints significantly, plus it will have an impact on your 5 minute effort, because the shorter the effort, the more dependent it is on anaerobic energy pathways. Efforts under 2 minutes are almost completely anaerobic. Even at 5 minutes, anaerobic fitness has a large impact on performance capabilities. The longer the effort, the less anaerobic fitness is a factor, and the more aerobic energy pathways are relied upon. Strength training primarily utilizes anaerobic energy pathways. Stop thinking in terms of training muscles, and instead understand that focusing on energy systems and specificity of training are what is important. Great post. Shane |
2013-04-26 7:40 AM in reply to: #4715294 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed FranzZemen - 2013-04-25 5:09 PM And I'm being persistent because people are really confusing the physics on the low end - anytime you have a mathematical accelerator like a polynomial formula it is important to understand scale. This made me laugh. |
2013-04-26 8:51 AM in reply to: #4715495 |
Elite 3140 | Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed gsmacleod - 2013-04-25 8:24 PM TriMyBest - 2013-04-25 8:42 PM Yes, you are making the wrong conclusion, but not the one that you're questioning. Great post. Shane Strength training will improve your 15 second and 1 minute sprints significantly, plus it will have an impact on your 5 minute effort, because the shorter the effort, the more dependent it is on anaerobic energy pathways. Efforts under 2 minutes are almost completely anaerobic. Even at 5 minutes, anaerobic fitness has a large impact on performance capabilities. The longer the effort, the less anaerobic fitness is a factor, and the more aerobic energy pathways are relied upon. Strength training primarily utilizes anaerobic energy pathways. Stop thinking in terms of training muscles, and instead understand that focusing on energy systems and specificity of training are what is important.
this is not entirely correct, yes those are anaerobic exercises that ustilize the phospagen system and anaerobic glycolysis but to say strength training/fast explosive exercises cannot help endurance athletes is just plain wrong and ignores a lot of good research out there As I said in an earlier post there is a ton of research promoting the postitive effects of strength training on endurance performance , I am just linking one of many that i found in a 5 second search..feel free to search yourself....I have an ex. phys background and I wish I had some of my old articles handy, but as I said you can search for yourself........granted there is some that goes against it, but an overwhelming majority support it...again this all falls into the endurance strength continuum Edited by FELTGood 2013-04-26 8:53 AM |
2013-04-26 9:04 AM in reply to: #4715351 |
Veteran 403 Maryland | Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed tomspharmacy - 2013-04-25 5:00 PM Wow, look at the can of worms that I opened up... I feel like forest gump now... "I'm not a smart man, but...." or Erkle, "did I do that?" You guys are operating at several pay grades above me... LOL. My anedotal evidence of the influence of gym work is this: After my HIM race in late Oct. my season was done, I cut back on volume and intensity... then I had to do the El Tour de Tucson... my longest ride ever for the year was about 80 miles done once back in Aug., I did one long ride about 70 miles about 2 weeks before the El Tour. Had a good race... then off season and in late Nov. I went to the gym and worked on leg strength and muscular weeknesses. I cut back on biking by 50%, and upped my running a little bit in Dec.... absolutely no swimming. I did the gym about 3 x a week.... Then in Jan, I started with an online coach and brand new plan... during the first couple weeks, I had to do the FTP tests and run tests... Well the evidence was this... my 15 second sprint (and I don't practice sprinting hardly ever) went from 800w to 1250w, my 1 minute went from 350w to 500w and my 5 minute went up to about 360w, my 20' and 60' as well... how am I not supposed to think that the weight training had nothing to do with this? Am I making the wrong conclusion? But I'll also say this, I cut back on the gym stuff in late Jan. and a new plan from a coach had me do more lsd at 70% than I've done before and then when retested before Leadman, my 60' FTP went up from 295/300 to the new 325. So I'll give credit to that... lsd sucks, it's boring and like chinese water torture, but it also seems to have worked. I'd also give credit to riding more on my road bike, that has definately made me better too, all of the lsd were on the road bike. My running hasn't changed that much either... the only thing that I'm able to do better at running is stay a threshold a little bit longer, but my pace hasn't improved dramatically.
No worries, this is a great thread, that for someone who does not average 20+mph on bike, is learning a ton from. That I can still benefit from a $100 disc cover and aero helmet, and work on building my engine to get the endurance needed to push the pedals at max effort. I recently had a tri helmet on order, that I ended up getting a refund for because of combinations of budget issues/feelings of "I am not fast enough for this". But after reading this thread, as soon as my other limiters come through, I will be back on the market for my aero helmet/disc cover for the future, but until then will stick with what I have, and continue to build my engine!! |
2013-04-26 9:11 AM in reply to: #4715969 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
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2013-04-26 9:21 AM in reply to: #4715984 |
Veteran 403 Maryland | Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed Fred D - 2013-04-26 9:11 AM bgeyeguy - 2013-04-26 10:04 AM] . Excellent! Yes, the main reason I get involved in threads like this is for people like yourself. Just because you are not averaging 20mph does NOT mean you shouldn't care about aero. There is plenty of cheap aero to buy, not just Zipp wheels and $8k bikes etc. get the helmet and also keep working of the engine. They are not mutually exclusive concepts by any means. I am very much against the elitism that aero seems to generate, and this coming from a guy that rides a very expensive bike and has a reasonably good engine (24.5mph in a HIM). Pretty much everyone going over 10-12mph benefits from aero, not just very, very fast people. The disc cover I would recommend is from Wheelbuilder.com. I've had great experiences with them, and I believe they were sub $100. No worries, this is a great thread, that for someone who does not average 20+mph on bike, is learning a ton from. That I can still benefit from a $100 disc cover and aero helmet, and work on building my engine to get the endurance needed to push the pedals at max effort. I recently had a tri helmet on order, that I ended up getting a refund for because of combinations of budget issues/feelings of "I am not fast enough for this". But after reading this thread, as soon as my other limiters come through, I will be back on the market for my aero helmet/disc cover for the future, but until then will stick with what I have, and continue to build my engine!! Yes, greatly appreciated Fred. I meant to thank you from your previous post also! They say that the helmet wud get more bang for the buck compared to some of the pricey stuff like a real disc, but the disc cover is much more in my budget right now. At what speeds do you think i would "feel" the benefit of the disc cover. I avg mid 18 at B2B half last year and was hoping to get both before going back again this year to attempt a PR. So what about bang for buck of disc cover vs. aero helmet (usually around $250-300?). If I could only get one now... Edited by bgeyeguy 2013-04-26 9:22 AM |
2013-04-26 9:23 AM in reply to: #4715941 |
Member 192 | Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed What you are citing were cyclists that got better cycling by cycling and jumping?
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2013-04-26 9:25 AM in reply to: #4716013 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed bgeyeguy - 2013-04-26 9:21 AM Fred D - 2013-04-26 9:11 AM bgeyeguy - 2013-04-26 10:04 AM] . Excellent! Yes, the main reason I get involved in threads like this is for people like yourself. Just because you are not averaging 20mph does NOT mean you shouldn't care about aero. There is plenty of cheap aero to buy, not just Zipp wheels and $8k bikes etc. get the helmet and also keep working of the engine. They are not mutually exclusive concepts by any means. I am very much against the elitism that aero seems to generate, and this coming from a guy that rides a very expensive bike and has a reasonably good engine (24.5mph in a HIM). Pretty much everyone going over 10-12mph benefits from aero, not just very, very fast people. The disc cover I would recommend is from Wheelbuilder.com. I've had great experiences with them, and I believe they were sub $100. No worries, this is a great thread, that for someone who does not average 20+mph on bike, is learning a ton from. That I can still benefit from a $100 disc cover and aero helmet, and work on building my engine to get the endurance needed to push the pedals at max effort. I recently had a tri helmet on order, that I ended up getting a refund for because of combinations of budget issues/feelings of "I am not fast enough for this". But after reading this thread, as soon as my other limiters come through, I will be back on the market for my aero helmet/disc cover for the future, but until then will stick with what I have, and continue to build my engine!! Yes, greatly appreciated Fred. I meant to thank you from your previous post also! They say that the helmet wud get more bang for the buck compared to some of the pricey stuff like a real disc, but the disc cover is much more in my budget right now. At what speeds do you think i would "feel" the benefit of the disc cover. I avg mid 18 at B2B half last year and was hoping to get both before going back again this year to attempt a PR. So what about bang for buck of disc cover vs. aero helmet (usually around $250-300?). If I could only get one now... You can find an aero helmet for $100 if you check out the BT classifieds and/or bargain hunt! I got my Rudy Project Wingspan for $155. |
2013-04-26 9:27 AM in reply to: #4716013 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. Edited by Fred D 2013-04-26 9:27 AM |
2013-04-26 9:27 AM in reply to: #4716025 |
Veteran 403 Maryland | Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed dmiller5 - 2013-04-26 9:25 AM bgeyeguy - 2013-04-26 9:21 AM Fred D - 2013-04-26 9:11 AM bgeyeguy - 2013-04-26 10:04 AM] . Excellent! Yes, the main reason I get involved in threads like this is for people like yourself. Just because you are not averaging 20mph does NOT mean you shouldn't care about aero. There is plenty of cheap aero to buy, not just Zipp wheels and $8k bikes etc. get the helmet and also keep working of the engine. They are not mutually exclusive concepts by any means. I am very much against the elitism that aero seems to generate, and this coming from a guy that rides a very expensive bike and has a reasonably good engine (24.5mph in a HIM). Pretty much everyone going over 10-12mph benefits from aero, not just very, very fast people. The disc cover I would recommend is from Wheelbuilder.com. I've had great experiences with them, and I believe they were sub $100. No worries, this is a great thread, that for someone who does not average 20+mph on bike, is learning a ton from. That I can still benefit from a $100 disc cover and aero helmet, and work on building my engine to get the endurance needed to push the pedals at max effort. I recently had a tri helmet on order, that I ended up getting a refund for because of combinations of budget issues/feelings of "I am not fast enough for this". But after reading this thread, as soon as my other limiters come through, I will be back on the market for my aero helmet/disc cover for the future, but until then will stick with what I have, and continue to build my engine!! Yes, greatly appreciated Fred. I meant to thank you from your previous post also! They say that the helmet wud get more bang for the buck compared to some of the pricey stuff like a real disc, but the disc cover is much more in my budget right now. At what speeds do you think i would "feel" the benefit of the disc cover. I avg mid 18 at B2B half last year and was hoping to get both before going back again this year to attempt a PR. So what about bang for buck of disc cover vs. aero helmet (usually around $250-300?). If I could only get one now... You can find an aero helmet for $100 if you check out the BT classifieds and/or bargain hunt! I got my Rudy Project Wingspan for $155. Nice, so which one would you get first? aero jacket or wingspan for $155? Of course, all this is to develop a power point presentation to justify to boss... happy wife=happy life |
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2013-04-26 9:29 AM in reply to: #4716025 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2013-04-26 9:35 AM in reply to: #4712761 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed agreed on the tubes/tires, you never know what has happened to them before you got them. I just got a pair of GP4000S tires for like $40 each on one of the sales that someone posted here. My last year of purchases. Rudy Project Wingspan-$155
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2013-04-26 10:04 AM in reply to: #4715941 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed FELTGood - 2013-04-26 9:51 AM gsmacleod - 2013-04-25 8:24 PM TriMyBest - 2013-04-25 8:42 PM Yes, you are making the wrong conclusion, but not the one that you're questioning. Great post. Shane Strength training will improve your 15 second and 1 minute sprints significantly, plus it will have an impact on your 5 minute effort, because the shorter the effort, the more dependent it is on anaerobic energy pathways. Efforts under 2 minutes are almost completely anaerobic. Even at 5 minutes, anaerobic fitness has a large impact on performance capabilities. The longer the effort, the less anaerobic fitness is a factor, and the more aerobic energy pathways are relied upon. Strength training primarily utilizes anaerobic energy pathways. Stop thinking in terms of training muscles, and instead understand that focusing on energy systems and specificity of training are what is important.
this is not entirely correct, yes those are anaerobic exercises that ustilize the phospagen system and anaerobic glycolysis but to say strength training/fast explosive exercises cannot help endurance athletes is just plain wrong and ignores a lot of good research out there As I said in an earlier post there is a ton of research promoting the postitive effects of strength training on endurance performance , I am just linking one of many that i found in a 5 second search..feel free to search yourself....I have an ex. phys background and I wish I had some of my old articles handy, but as I said you can search for yourself........granted there is some that goes against it, but an overwhelming majority support it...again this all falls into the endurance strength continuum Where exactly did I say that strength training/fast explosive exercises cannot help endurance athletes? I receive a hard copy of the JSCR monthly, and consider it to be an excellent resource, but there isn't anything in that study that contradicts what I posted. There are plenty of reasons to do strength training, and there is evidence that it can contribute to endurance performance, but that doesn't make it the right answer to the OP's question. I only pointed out that substrate utilization varies based in part on the length of the effort, and that strength training can have a greater impact on shorter efforts than it can longer ones. I didn't say it has no impact on longer efforts. The issue for the average age grouper with limited training hours is that they will see more improvement by focusing their training on the primary energy systems utilized for their target event while observing the specificity principle rather than targeting the energy systems utilized to a lessor extent through non-specific exercise modes. Edited by TriMyBest 2013-04-26 10:06 AM |
2013-04-26 10:26 AM in reply to: #4715941 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed FELTGood - 2013-04-26 10:51 AM this is not entirely correct, yes those are anaerobic exercises that ustilize the phospagen system and anaerobic glycolysis but to say strength training/fast explosive exercises cannot help endurance athletes is just plain wrong and ignores a lot of good research out there As I said in an earlier post there is a ton of research promoting the postitive effects of strength training on endurance performance , I am just linking one of many that i found in a 5 second search..feel free to search yourself....I have an ex. phys background and I wish I had some of my old articles handy, but as I said you can search for yourself........granted there is some that goes against it, but an overwhelming majority support it...again this all falls into the endurance strength continuum Strength-endurance is absolutely a continuum and while there are many reasons to strength train (including that it may improve endurance performance), it is important to keep in mind that as an event gets longer, the importance of the endurance end of the spectrum becomes more and more important while the strength end of the specturm becomes less and less important. I agree that there is a fair amount of research that either shows the strength training improves or may improve endurance performance but, many of these are focused on shorter endurance efforts (like the link you posted) where the anaerobic work capacity would play a larger role than it would in a triathlon. Since the shortest events we are usually concerned with last at least an hour, then the impact of strength on FTP would be an important one to consider: As I've said many times, there are many good reasons to strength train, but if one is trying to get faster on the bike in triathlons, increasing training load on the bike as opposed to the gym is the way to go. Shane |
2013-04-26 11:18 AM in reply to: #4716055 |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed dmiller5 - 2013-04-26 9:35 AM agreed on the tubes/tires, you never know what has happened to them before you got them. Wouldn't that thinking apply to helmets as well? Damage can't always be seen. |
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2013-04-26 11:51 AM in reply to: #4716055 |
Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed dmiller5 - 2013-04-26 7:35 AM agreed on the tubes/tires, you never know what has happened to them before you got them. I just got a pair of GP4000S tires for like $40 each on one of the sales that someone posted here. My last year of purchases. Rudy Project Wingspan-$155
That's about what I did, but over time. had the HED 3 since 2008. Last year bought an aero helmet for $150-ish, 'net closeout. This year bought a wheel cover (granted, on top of a DT swiss PT wheel) and GP4000 for 50% off. Bought the latex tubes last sesaon as well but destroyed one putting it on and haven't gone back to try it again yet. Add to this some hard work and coaching. Edited by ChrisM 2013-04-26 11:52 AM |
2013-04-26 11:55 AM in reply to: #4716324 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed ChrisM - 2013-04-26 11:51 AM dmiller5 - 2013-04-26 7:35 AM agreed on the tubes/tires, you never know what has happened to them before you got them. I just got a pair of GP4000S tires for like $40 each on one of the sales that someone posted here. My last year of purchases. Rudy Project Wingspan-$155
That's about what I did, but over time. had the HED 3 since 2008. Last year bought an aero helmet for $150-ish, 'net closeout. This year bought a wheel cover (granted, on top of a DT swiss PT wheel) and GP4000 for 50% off. Bought the latex tubes last sesaon as well but destroyed one putting it on and haven't gone back to try it again yet. Add to this some hard work and coaching. well i've been putting in the hard work, but coaching is $$$ and I haven't decided that it is worth it to me yet. |
2013-04-26 11:57 AM in reply to: #4716330 |
Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed dmiller5 - 2013-04-26 9:55 AM ChrisM - 2013-04-26 11:51 AM dmiller5 - 2013-04-26 7:35 AM agreed on the tubes/tires, you never know what has happened to them before you got them. I just got a pair of GP4000S tires for like $40 each on one of the sales that someone posted here. My last year of purchases. Rudy Project Wingspan-$155
That's about what I did, but over time. had the HED 3 since 2008. Last year bought an aero helmet for $150-ish, 'net closeout. This year bought a wheel cover (granted, on top of a DT swiss PT wheel) and GP4000 for 50% off. Bought the latex tubes last sesaon as well but destroyed one putting it on and haven't gone back to try it again yet. Add to this some hard work and coaching. well i've been putting in the hard work, but coaching is $$$ and I haven't decided that it is worth it to me yet. I don't think the coaching is necessary, I did Jorge's winter program a couple years ago and that helped. Have to be disciplined. Coach is mainly because I signed up for an IM this year, and tend to overdo it. I need a rational perspective looking over my plan |
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