Improving my running speed (Page 2)

Originally posted by PsyTri I'm still in disbelief. You just have to run slowly for increasing distances for years and hope you get faster. That does not make much sense. Are you sure this is not just some conspiratorial hazing of the new runner?!?!?!?! What about what I've read about tempo runs? Z4 runs? Sprints? Hills? And re: cadence. I don't get how you run comfortably slow and keep up a 180 cadence? I went for a 5 minute cool down run after my AM bike ride and counted steps for the first time. Think I was at 82 or 84. I was trying to run good form. Not long strides. Actually shorter than usual trying to keep a "high" cadence. Not pushing it. Only went about .6 miles. 7'53"/mile pace. If I were to run slower, as has been suggested, won't my cadence be slower too? If not, it would feel almost like running in place.

I think about it this way.  You are ALREADY have the ability to run fast enough to set a world record at a marathon.  You could run faster than a Kenyon RIGHT NOW - for about 100 yards...  Then you get tired.  You can't keep up the pace for an extended period of time - but you have the ability to run at that pace.

So how do you work on endurance?  LOTS of long continuous runs.  How do you keep from getting injured/over trained doing lots of long continuous runs?  Go slow.  It really is that easy.

For some anecdotal evidence.  When I decided to move up to the IM distance I completely changed my training over to LOTS of long Z2 work which is required for that distance.  No longer tried to get a lot of interval or tempo work in.  Meanwhile, I was still racing by shorter "B" races and just KILLING them (for my standards).  I was surprised how fast I could run a 10k without specifically training for it.  I guess I felt that running 3 hours at 10:00/mile made running 10k at sub 8:00/mile seems easy.

I'm 5'7 and weigh 150-155.  My aim is to get closer to 145 come race time next season.  

I used to be one of those "BMI doesn't matter" guys back when I weighed 160+.  Yes you can have a higher than normal weight BMI and be healthy for everyday life, but if your goal is to be as fast as you can be, then having a BMI over 25 isn't going to get you there.

Oh....the weight issue.  I watch kids run 15:XX - 16:XX 5K's all the time..... my son is 6'4" 160.  He's running second on his team, for now, to an 18 year old who is 6'3" 155.  They'll both lose to a kid who is 5'10" 135 with a crazy turnover rate.

In FAST running from 5K on up.....if you are 5'10 and 160 you are fat.....deal with it.

Roughly, 1lb = 2 sec/mi.  soooo- 1lb = 1min for a marathon.  Not that the OP looks like he's got much to lose.

I wish I had read this thread 3 years ago.  eh, I probably wouldn't have believed it anyway.  now- I'm a convert.  

And there is. The majority of us don't and never will reach that point, though.

Somewhere in the single-digits of body-fat percentage... maybe.   If you can lose muscle-mass without losing endurance, then in theory it will make you even faster (over a given distance.)  Of course, following that course to its conclusion would be insanity.  Since your muscles are also your glycogen storage devices the trade-off would turn negative pretty quickly, I imagine.

A 150 pound guy with 10% body fat could reasonably safely lose another 6-8 pounds of fat... which could translate into more than a few seconds off of a 5k... an eternity in a tight race.

^^^ this is just a thought experiment.  I'm not advocating this as a race strategy... especially for growing CC runners!

Wait.....so you think that you did your longest run ever slower than ever and 7 weeks from now you will be faster?  Nobody is saying tat will happen.......NOBODY.  In fact, that's ridiculous.

Run much more often and much slower for two years.....then check back in.  You'll be faster....probably a lot faster.

Your "slow" pace should be whatever allows you to run more and more without getting hurt.  If you can crank out 40 miles a week at 8:00/mile... GREAT.

Generally you "get hurt" when you:

1. Just overuse your muscles/joints.

2. Get too tired.

 "Getting Tired" leads to all sorts of things, like making bad choices about what workouts to do, or getting burnt out, or having bad form, or changing your eating habits, whatever.

There is no "right answer" for finding your slow pace.  You'll have to experiment to see what's  sustainable.    Because that's the key:  Running more and more for long periods of time.

And my point is that running adaptations take a looong time....think 2 or 3 years.  One long slow run is just not part of the discussion.  Run more, mostly slow, and you will get faster.

The other thing is...... are you sure you did a 50K?  That's 30 miles.  You said your long run was 20.....I'm just saying.