PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st
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2013-11-06 11:19 AM |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st The goal of this challenge is to help you tackle some kind of bike project with the goal of improving your wrenching skills. You could decide to just do some simple maintenance on one of your bikes. You could try a bigger project on a current bike. You could try taking apart a bike you already own, or even building a bike from new or salvaged parts. You choose what level of craziness you want to take on, and, hopefully, at the end of six weeks, you will have more skills than you started with! For this challenge we will be using There is also a Zinn and the Art of Tri Bike Maintenance, which my be more applicable given your project. You can also elect, of course, to not use a book, and to use you tube videos and online resources instead. Or all of the above :) It would be COMPLETELY AWESOME if some BTers with wrenching skills wanted to help field questions and trouble shoot. If you're interested in helping in this capacity, please, please do. PM me if you want. I think moondawg14 (Ryan) is in to offer some help, though he warned me there could be some time delay as he lives in China. If you are thinking about doing this Challenge, you may want to think about a stand and some tools. They could make great stocking stuffers :) Post up if you're interested.
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2013-11-06 11:44 AM in reply to: switch |
Master 6595 Rio Rancho, NM | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st I really like this idea. Mostly because it drives me crazy to go to the LBS when my bike won't shift. I found the downloads for the tri bike and mountain bike so maybe i'll get both and use my MTB as the guinea pig... |
2013-11-06 11:57 AM in reply to: switch |
Champion 16151 Checkin' out the podium girls | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st I do t have the want or need to build or overhaul any of my stable, but will happily offer advice as mentorship. I'm a pretty adept mechanic. |
2013-11-06 12:06 PM in reply to: switch |
Master 6595 Rio Rancho, NM | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st Ok, I lied, kinda. I do have the MTB book electronically but can't find the TT bike electronically yet. Maybe I'll start with the MTB and as I gain confidence I'll tri the TRI |
2013-11-06 1:59 PM in reply to: rrrunner |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st Originally posted by rrrunner You're a brave soul! I am going to play with a bike I don't care about :)Ok, I lied, kinda. I do have the MTB book electronically but can't find the TT bike electronically yet. Maybe I'll start with the MTB and as I gain confidence I'll tri the TRI |
2013-11-06 1:59 PM in reply to: pitt83 |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st Originally posted by pitt83 I do t have the want or need to build or overhaul any of my stable, but will happily offer advice as mentorship. I'm a pretty adept mechanic. Great! Thanks Dave:) |
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2013-11-06 2:07 PM in reply to: switch |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st I suggest this for anyone. I honestly believe there almost no reasons to take a bike to your LBS. They are very simple mechanical devices and just about anything can be fixed with some basic tools and some courage/knowhow. In MOST cases, fixing a part is worthless, so learn how to swap parts out and making small adjustments can save TONS of money. Also, you can always give it a try and if you don't get it? Take it to the LBS anyway. It's not like you can mess things up SO bad that you would cost yourself more money. (like doing a bad job on your own home electrical or plumbing) Enjoy the experience. |
2013-11-06 2:10 PM in reply to: switch |
Master 6595 Rio Rancho, NM | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st Originally posted by switch Originally posted by rrrunner You're a brave soul! I am going to play with a bike I don't care about Ok, I lied, kinda. I do have the MTB book electronically but can't find the TT bike electronically yet. Maybe I'll start with the MTB and as I gain confidence I'll tri the TRI Yeah.... this is the MTB. The one that throws me at any given opportunity |
2013-11-06 2:20 PM in reply to: Kido |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st Originally posted by Kido I suggest this for anyone. I honestly believe there almost no reasons to take a bike to your LBS. They are very simple mechanical devices and just about anything can be fixed with some basic tools and some courage/knowhow. In MOST cases, fixing a part is worthless, so learn how to swap parts out and making small adjustments can save TONS of money. Also, you can always give it a try and if you don't get it? Take it to the LBS anyway. It's not like you can mess things up SO bad that you would cost yourself more money. (like doing a bad job on your own home electrical or plumbing) Enjoy the experience. x2 About the only things I would consider taking my bike to the LBS for would be for bottom bracket or headset work, and only because I don't (yet) have the proper tools. I'm planning on doing pretty much a complete tear down and inspection of my bike over the holidays. Mark |
2013-11-06 2:24 PM in reply to: switch |
Champion 10668 Tacoma, Washington | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st I'll put this out there: * Have my torch skills honed enough to braze up my wife's 1x10 "all-road" bike frame. It'll be built on 24" wheels (507's, for those that speak ERTRTO), disc brakes, a fairly upright position, and loads of front-center and trail. |
2013-11-06 2:28 PM in reply to: RedCorvette |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st Originally posted by RedCorvette Cool. Thanks for the words of encouragement guys :) Originally posted by Kido I suggest this for anyone. I honestly believe there almost no reasons to take a bike to your LBS. They are very simple mechanical devices and just about anything can be fixed with some basic tools and some courage/knowhow. In MOST cases, fixing a part is worthless, so learn how to swap parts out and making small adjustments can save TONS of money. Also, you can always give it a try and if you don't get it? Take it to the LBS anyway. It's not like you can mess things up SO bad that you would cost yourself more money. (like doing a bad job on your own home electrical or plumbing) Enjoy the experience. x2 About the only things I would consider taking my bike to the LBS for would be for bottom bracket or headset work, and only because I don't (yet) have the proper tools. I'm planning on doing pretty much a complete tear down and inspection of my bike over the holidays. Mark |
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2013-11-06 2:29 PM in reply to: briderdt |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st Originally posted by briderdt I'll put this out there: * Have my torch skills honed enough to braze up my wife's 1x10 "all-road" bike frame. It'll be built on 24" wheels (507's, for those that speak ERTRTO), disc brakes, a fairly upright position, and loads of front-center and trail. Dude, are you trying to intimidate me? It's working :) BTW, does this mean you're offering to field questions for the group? |
2013-11-06 2:58 PM in reply to: switch |
Champion 10668 Tacoma, Washington | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st Originally posted by switch Originally posted by briderdt I'll put this out there: * Have my torch skills honed enough to braze up my wife's 1x10 "all-road" bike frame. It'll be built on 24" wheels (507's, for those that speak ERTRTO), disc brakes, a fairly upright position, and loads of front-center and trail. Dude, are you trying to intimidate me? It's working BTW, does this mean you're offering to field questions for the group? You can ALWAYS ask. Doesn't mean you'll get an appropriate answer.... |
2013-11-06 3:00 PM in reply to: switch |
Expert 1215 Austin, TX | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st I just rebuilt my front shock. I had to convert it from oil to air as the model was discontinued and my shock was not rebounding. This was my first big attempt at wrenching and it went well. Plus I saved $130 by doing it myself. It was a great feeling to fix it myself. Next up is tuning up shifters and disc brakes. As a kid I took apart a radio and put it back together just to see if I could. Somehow as an adult I lost that curiosity but it is back now! |
2013-11-06 3:43 PM in reply to: Hugh in TX |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st Originally posted by Hugh in TX I just rebuilt my front shock. I had to convert it from oil to air as the model was discontinued and my shock was not rebounding. This was my first big attempt at wrenching and it went well. Plus I saved $130 by doing it myself. It was a great feeling to fix it myself. Next up is tuning up shifters and disc brakes. As a kid I took apart a radio and put it back together just to see if I could. Somehow as an adult I lost that curiosity but it is back now! Strong work! I used to love to tinker with stuff when I was a kid too. My husband and I just took apart our washing machine. It was a front loader that had a horrific smell we couldn't get rid of, and it was making all of the clothes unwearable. Ryan, moondawg14, totally had our back. We got it apart, thoroughly cleaned it, put it back together, and voila! No more smell, and it totally boosted our confidence. I like home projects and DIY building, but anything mechanical has made me nervous in the past. It really was a thread in COJ with Ryan that made me think I just needed to get over it, and try fixing stuff, or (his suggestion) taking apart broken stuff. My plan for the bike project is to try to build one from salvaged parts. We'll see. I bet, if nothing else, it will be entertaining :) |
2013-11-06 4:46 PM in reply to: switch |
Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st Slowly I'm starting to do more and more of my own wrenching. The key is to start with a good workstand. This will make everything 100x easier. Right now my toolbox contains the following. Full set of allen wrenches Ratchet with full set of allen key sockets Torque wrench Cassette removal key and chain whip Adjustable wrench Philips and flat head screw drivers Masterlink breaker Pedal Wrench BB removal tool (for external BBs) Electrical tape Plumbers tape Tire lever Various valve extenders, spare master links, and removeable cores Needle nose pliers Wire cutters Rubber mallet Zip ties Grease Chain lube I also just added a chain breaker (to adjust the length of a brand new chain) and a BB30 bearing removal tool. The two things I had to take my bike in for last season that seemed like an easy step was replacing my chain and swapping out my BB bearings. Something I'll have to do on a regular basis as I ride a lot more next year so the adding those tools to my collection was a no brainer. Eventually I'd like to learn how to recable my bike myself. Doesn't seem that complicated, but something I'd like to do with an experienced person watching over. Last thing I want is to apply my brakes going downhill and they don't work properly because of my cabling job. |
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2013-11-06 6:13 PM in reply to: 0 |
Elite 4344 | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st I may have something that may be interesting to this group. I am working on a Wheel Truing Algorithm. It may be ready by January for beta testing. The idea is that the user measures the difference from round in a truing stand using dial indicators for radial and lateral displacement, measures the spoke tension using a meter of some sort (I like the iPhone Spoke Tension Meter app.), and inputs the data into a computer. The truing algorithm calculates the number of turns of each spoke to bring the wheel to true and equally tensioned. The algorithm is based on a structural model the wheel that simultaneously solve bending equations for the the rim laterally and radial and a model of stretching the spokes. It is some very cool math and physics. I think this model will help beginning professional wheel builders and do-it-yourselfer get a feel for how much to turn a spoke to get the wheel truer each time rather that out in a different direction. It lowers the skill level required to produce a really well-built wheel. The model works and I have tried it on one wheel. The first sample was a wheel that was bent in an accident so it was not a great candidate. The algorithm told me that the tension in the spokes would be too high to get the wheel true. This was exactly what happened. I need to set up to do some more wheels. Here are some pictures of my setup. The top picture is a cardboard protractor that I slip over the spoke with a pointer attached to the spoke wrench. I also clip a paper clip to the spoke so I can see how much the spoke twists. The middle picture is the Spoke Tension Meter app. It works by detecting the frequency of the plucked spoke and converting the frequency to tension. It works pretty well. By that I mean that the measurement is reproducible. I don't have any way to calibrate against a standard. Reproducible is probably most important for building wheels. It reads about 10% higher consistently than a Park Tension Meter. The bottom picture is my truing stand with digital dial indictors replacing the Park mechanical dial indictors. I can read down to .01 mm. Having the digital readings rather than a big dial and one or two small dials to combine is much easier. I have a very lengthy paper on the mathematical method for the truing algorithm for anyone who is interested. 70 pages mostly equations. The computer program currently runs under a freeware program called Scilab that is very similar to Matlab. It is only 3 pages.
TW
Edited by tech_geezer 2013-11-06 6:25 PM (Spoke protractor.jpg) (Spoke tension meter.jpg) (Dial indicators and truing stand.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Spoke protractor.jpg (420KB - 0 downloads) Spoke tension meter.jpg (364KB - 0 downloads) Dial indicators and truing stand.jpg (507KB - 0 downloads) |
2013-11-06 6:17 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st Originally posted by Jason N Slowly I'm starting to do more and more of my own wrenching. The key is to start with a good workstand. This will make everything 100x easier. Right now my toolbox contains the following. Full set of allen wrenches Ratchet with full set of allen key sockets Torque wrench Cassette removal key and chain whip Adjustable wrench Philips and flat head screw drivers Masterlink breaker Pedal Wrench BB removal tool (for external BBs) Electrical tape Plumbers tape Tire lever Various valve extenders, spare master links, and removeable cores Needle nose pliers Wire cutters Rubber mallet Zip ties Grease Chain lube I also just added a chain breaker (to adjust the length of a brand new chain) and a BB30 bearing removal tool. The two things I had to take my bike in for last season that seemed like an easy step was replacing my chain and swapping out my BB bearings. Something I'll have to do on a regular basis as I ride a lot more next year so the adding those tools to my collection was a no brainer. Eventually I'd like to learn how to recable my bike myself. Doesn't seem that complicated, but something I'd like to do with an experienced person watching over. Last thing I want is to apply my brakes going downhill and they don't work properly because of my cabling job. Funny you mention all that and one of the few things I have done myself is re-cable my bike. Shifter cables that is, not the brakes. Maybe the brakes will be my project. |
2013-11-06 6:25 PM in reply to: tech_geezer |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st Originally posted by tech_geezer I may have something that may be interesting to this group. I am working on a Wheel Truing Algorithm. It may be ready by January for beta testing. The idea is that the user measures the difference from round in a truing stand using dial indicators for radial and lateral displacement, measures the spoke tension using a meter of some sort (I like the iPhone Spoke Tension Meter app.), and inputs the data into a computer. The truing algorithm calculates the number of turns of each spoke to bring the wheel to true and equally tensioned. The algorithm is based on a structural model the wheel that simultaneously solve bending equations for the the rim laterally and radial and a model of stretching the spokes. It is some very cool math and physics. I think this model will help beginning professional wheel builders and do-it-yourselfer get a feel for how much to turn a spoke to get the wheel truer each time rather that out in a different direction. It lowers the skill level required to produce a really well-built wheel. The model works and I have tried it on one wheel. The first sample was a wheel that was bent in an accident so it was not a great candidate. The algorithm told me that the tension in the spokes would be too high to get the wheel true. This was exactly what happened. I need to set up to do some more wheels. Here are some pictures of my setup.
That's impressive and ambitious. It's also one thing I have not tried and just buy my wheels built for me. If I ever got into the fixie or single speed for recreation, I would try it just for the ability to come up with some really cool lacing patterns. |
2013-11-06 6:36 PM in reply to: axteraa |
Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st Originally posted by axteraa Funny you mention all that and one of the few things I have done myself is re-cable my bike. Shifter cables that is, not the brakes. Maybe the brakes will be my project. Yeah, it doesn't seem that difficult at all. I think the biggest hurdle for me is that I don't have cables or housings on hand. I have to go to my LBS to get them, so it's just easier if I drop it off (they usually do it for me for free). But if I can buy a bunch of cables and housing to store at home, then it should be something I can do myself. The tricky thing for me seems to be trimming the housings to the right length. I know you can just measure based off the existing housings, but what if you're swapping out your cockpit and your cables run differently? I'd at least like to know what the typical protocol is for knowing if your housing is too long/short or just right. I know once I had my cables changed and they made the cable/housing too short for the front derailleur. When I packed my bike in my car and turned the handlebars 90 degrees, the cable would pull and shift the FD. |
2013-11-06 6:43 PM in reply to: Kido |
Elite 4344 | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st Originally posted by Kido Originally posted by tech_geezer I may have something that may be interesting to this group. I am working on a Wheel Truing Algorithm. It may be ready by January for beta testing. The idea is that the user measures the difference from round in a truing stand using dial indicators for radial and lateral displacement, measures the spoke tension using a meter of some sort (I like the iPhone Spoke Tension Meter app.), and inputs the data into a computer. The truing algorithm calculates the number of turns of each spoke to bring the wheel to true and equally tensioned. The algorithm is based on a structural model the wheel that simultaneously solve bending equations for the the rim laterally and radial and a model of stretching the spokes. It is some very cool math and physics. I think this model will help beginning professional wheel builders and do-it-yourselfer get a feel for how much to turn a spoke to get the wheel truer each time rather that out in a different direction. It lowers the skill level required to produce a really well-built wheel. The model works and I have tried it on one wheel. The first sample was a wheel that was bent in an accident so it was not a great candidate. The algorithm told me that the tension in the spokes would be too high to get the wheel true. This was exactly what happened. I need to set up to do some more wheels. Here are some pictures of my setup.
That's impressive and ambitious. It's also one thing I have not tried and just buy my wheels built for me. If I ever got into the fixie or single speed for recreation, I would try it just for the ability to come up with some really cool lacing patterns. The algorithm is basically done. I have run a lot of numerical tests that all work. Now, I am just in the first phase of experimental testing the algorithm on real wheels. The hardest part is measuring the amount I turn the spoke nipple into the thread as opposed to twisting the spoke with the spoke nipple fixed on the thread. My paper clip on the spoke and pointer on the spoke wrench technique works but is easy to flub up and mess up the measurement. I have done a lot of reading on the modeling subject. I think my model is something new because it is analytical (not a finite element solution) and a nice addition to the engineering mechanics. I have been working on applying the model to buckling limits for spoke tension and max spoke tension for various road loads. These would be useful calculations to use the model for wheel design. t The method treats the rim as a circular beam with point loads representing each spoke. The rim bending is uses Euler-Bernoulli assumptions applied to the circular beam in the lateral and radial directions of bending. The most complicated thing is the set of formulas for the geometry of the spokes. The are a lot of spoke patterns to represent even if I limit it to wheels I own. The data are pretty simple to get. Right now the only fuzzy data parameter in the model is the bending stiffness coefficient. I don't have a good way of estimating the second moment of area for the rim cross sectional area. I hope I can get some help from wheel manufacturers or from academics who have the money to cut up some rims and measure their cross-sectional areas. It has been a fun project. |
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2013-11-06 8:33 PM in reply to: 0 |
Master 1970 Somewhere on the Tennessee River | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st With my current bike that I ride I started with a Quintana Roo frame and built up from there. I did all work except for running the cables. Since then I have swapped handlebars and that required me to change out the brake and shifter cable housings, along with the cables. I have also built my current set of wheels. Laced the spokes to the hub and rim and trued them up myself. I built a jig to get tight tolerances. Have wrench, can do. It has to do with that improvise, adapt, overcome attitude that was instilled in me long ago. Edited by MadMathemagician 2013-11-06 8:35 PM |
2013-11-06 8:58 PM in reply to: switch |
156 | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st For me one of the most gratifying parts of the sport besides the races is the bike maintenance. I built my bike up from scratch and it was very rewarding. I ended up with a bike that was in my budget and had all the components I wanted. I use and still reference the Zinn tri bike book. I encourage everyone to give it a shot and if you hit a road block or have questions, there is plenty of experienced wrenchers here. Dave (20131106_215040.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 20131106_215040.jpg (902KB - 0 downloads) |
2013-11-07 5:48 AM in reply to: switch |
Pro 5892 , New Hampshire | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st I'm working on 3 bikes right now… My wife has an Orbea Orca Dama that is being built up with Campy Record (10 speed stuff), this was a warranty replacement for a frame that broke. She also having her dream bike built up, a Parlee Z5SLi that I'm building up with all kinds of goodies and Campy Super Record EPS. The third bike will be a Parlee TT. I had lots of injuries last year and decided to sell my tri bike (just couldn't ride it enough) and then I got a great opportunity to get a Parlee TT (medium tall) with full Di2, that's slowly being assembled. I've built up every single bike we have/had (total of 18 bikes…) so I do have the skills and tools to do it. The only thing I have not been working on in the past is Campy EPS, but now I have all the tools for that as well. |
2013-11-07 6:52 AM in reply to: switch |
Master 6834 Englewood, Florida | Subject: RE: PSA: Wrenching Skills Challenge Jan 15- March 1st Good Golly woman, are you trying to poke the bear?!? Your timing on this is perfect, as I am nearly done with the tear down on what will be a SS/Fixie with a flip-flop hub. My tool collection is slowly building and a stand is on the list for soon. I can't see the pic, but I have the Big, Blue Book from Park as my guide and I've gotten a lot out of it already. |
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