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Effect of bike cleat position?
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 2014-01-19 3:31 AM |
Master  8247      Eugene, Oregon Bronze member |  Subject: Effect of bike cleat position?Okay, I admit I'm a bike idiot! But wondering....... Ever since I started riding a road bike with bike shoes, and especially since training for longer races (above Oly length), I've had periodic issues with soreness and occasional numbness in the big toe and second toe on one foot during/after long rides. This seems to contribute to a weird cramp on the top of my foot and front of my shins that happens only when the long bike is followed by a long run (HIM or "international" 12K distance) at race intensity. Somehow it never occurred to me it might be related to pedal/cleat stuff. This has been going on for over two years... This past fall I did little riding as was really focused on HM training. But somehow I aggravated the toe issue (my guess is some kind of neuroma or tendinitis) with ill-fitting running shoes. It still comes and goes but seems to be improving gradually now that I have proper running shoes again. But the bike shoes clearly aggravate it, although they seem to fit well and have plenty of room in the toe box. Today I had the bike shop guy switch the cleats on both shoes back to the other possible position (away from my toes). I think it might take the pressure off of what seems to be an unhappy nerve and/or tendon. But wondering what the effect of this is..... Is the position of your cleats just a matter of personal preference, is one "better" than the other, or does it depend on something like bike type, fit, body build, etc? I train and race on a road bike (Trek 1.2 here) with aerobars; pedals/cleats in question are SPD's. Is one supposed to move cleats back if riding in aero or on a tri bike, or is it just a matter of what's most comfortable? Is one more "powerful" than the other or does it really make any difference? Should they necessarily be in the same position for each foot? Apologize for the idiocy of these questions. The guy who did my bike fit (we did it with the bars but oddly never got into the matter of cleats/pedals) is no longer regularly in the Saigon shop and no one there can answer these, at least in English! |
| 2014-01-19 7:30 AM in reply to: Hot Runner |
| 189 , Alabama | Subject: RE: Effect of bike cleat position? Hi yesterday I posted about pain in my calves and today I have just worked out it is due to the position of my cleats on my bike shoes. I had been getting pain on the outside ball of my foot after a while on the bike so was deliberately putting my weight on the inside by pressing down. When I put my feet on the floor today and do the same movement the pain shoots up the inside of my calve where the tendon meets my shin bone. On speaking to my son he said it was my cleat position which needs adjusted so not caused by running at all. His housemate also had a real problem with his knee and a physio told him it was cleat position, which he then adjusted and no pain since. So it seems to be important and not just about personal preference. |
| 2014-01-19 7:46 AM in reply to: Hot Runner |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Effect of bike cleat position? Changing your cleat position will change your bike fit. Did he change other aspects of your fit when he moved cleats back? Here is a good article that covers cleat position and bike fit. |
| 2014-01-19 8:19 AM in reply to: Hot Runner |
Pro 5892 , New Hampshire | Subject: RE: Effect of bike cleat position? This will yield a general, good starting position of the cleat. Put on your cycling shoes and on the side side of your foot, mark the center of the ball of the foot. On the outside of your foot, mark the corresponding joint (the outside ball by your pinkie toe). That line should correspond to the center of your cleat. There's always a little movement back and forth to find the most comfortable and efficient position (very few end up moving forward from this line, but it's a little more common that you end up slightly behind this line… most end up right on the line). |
| 2014-01-19 11:46 AM in reply to: audiojan |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: Effect of bike cleat position? I have my cleats moved as far back as I can, which isn't all that far with the Look cleat system but there's a few millimeters to work with, and have them center positioned and not canted one way or the other. I then use the red cleats with 9 degrees of float to allow my feet to naturally cant. I'm lucky that cleat position doesn't screw me up like it does some people. |
| 2014-01-19 11:55 AM in reply to: audiojan |
Veteran 576 Maple Grove | Subject: RE: Effect of bike cleat position? Originally posted by audiojan This will yield a general, good starting position of the cleat. Put on your cycling shoes and on the side side of your foot, mark the center of the ball of the foot. On the outside of your foot, mark the corresponding joint (the outside ball by your pinkie toe). That line should correspond to the center of your cleat. There's always a little movement back and forth to find the most comfortable and efficient position (very few end up moving forward from this line, but it's a little more common that you end up slightly behind this line… most end up right on the line). When i first started triathlon, I didn't have a formal fit and slowly made adjustments in saddle height and position to try to dial in a good compromise between power and comfort. However, I commonly had problems with cramping in my calves when running off the bike that would lessen after about a mile or two. When i got a formal bike fit, the first thing they did was move my cleats back, as i was "ankling" fairly severely and my seat was probably a little too high. This solved a lot of the cramping problems, and I felt I had more power and efficiency, as I was using my upper legs more than my lower. |
| 2014-01-19 12:24 PM in reply to: rdailey1 |
Champion 16151 Checkin' out the podium girls | Subject: RE: Effect of bike cleat position? What I do when I get new shoes is this: I mount the cleats, but leave the screws slightly loose. I take the bike out to an empty parking lot with a helper. I'll take a slight spin around for a couple of minutes, then stop while staying clipped in and grab onto a solid object (a lamp post works well). I'll have my helper mark the clear position with a marker or scratch awl, then unclip, put the cleat where the marks are, then secure them tightly. This emulates your bodies preferred position on the pedal and, for me, gives me an injury free ride. |
| 2014-01-19 5:51 PM in reply to: KathyG |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: Effect of bike cleat position? Thanks! In that case, hopefully the guy who did the fit will come back soon, or I'll have to tinker with it myself. He is starting a business in a neighboring country and returns irregularly; most days it's just a clerk and the mechanic at the LBS. The latter speaks pretty much zero English. I do think intuitively that it would be better to be further back on the pedal, esp. in aero--not only more comfortable but maybe more efficient. When I clip out (due to traffic or discomfort), my feet are always further back on the pedal than when clipped in, especially in aero. As I recall, when we did the fit (it was when putting on the bars, not when I purchased the bike elsewhere), we didn't change the cleats/pedals from their original position. |
| 2014-01-20 2:29 AM in reply to: Hot Runner |
Extreme Veteran 929 , Kobenhavns Kommune | Subject: RE: Effect of bike cleat position? Often the LBS just mount the cleats in mid position and having your feet point straight forward without further fitting. You need to adjust them yourself or get a proper fitting, and you may need slightly different adjustment of each shoe. Moving the cleats back or forth changes how power is transferred, as mentioned the center of the cleat should be under the ball of the foot. But no one have their feet pointing straight forward, some may naturally point their toes inwards or outwards. It may be possible to angle the cleats slightly. But alternatively loosen the clips to give some wiggle room, I found tensions building up simply because the position was too fixed, loosening the clips solved that. |
| 2014-01-20 5:26 AM in reply to: erik.norgaard |
Pro 5892 , New Hampshire | Subject: RE: Effect of bike cleat position? Originally posted by erik.norgaard Moving the cleats back or forth changes how power is transferred, as mentioned the center of the cleat should be under the ball of the foot. But no one have their feet pointing straight forward, some may naturally point their toes inwards or outwards. It may be possible to angle the cleats slightly. But alternatively loosen the clips to give some wiggle room, I found tensions building up simply because the position was too fixed, loosening the clips solved that. Very good advise! To further highlight the importance on cleat position…. in my last bike fitting, which was more of a tweaking of my position, I "found" 6 watts just by correcting my cleat position. Due to tightness in my lower back/hamstrings, I couldn't push through the last fraction of the downstroke (and pulling up the first fraction of the upstroke). By moving the cleat a little further back, but more importantly, change the angle of the cleat, I could correct those issues. |
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