HM 6 days after HIM
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2014-02-26 8:48 AM |
Regular 1161 Hamilton, IL | Subject: HM 6 days after HIM I am planning on doing an HIM on a Sunday and Half Mary on the following Saturday. Will I be horrible, or will I dominate? I'd like to do well at the HM, but I really am not going to be sad if i don't PR. I'll have put in the mileage for sure, something like 150 miles in the month prior according to my (likely optimistic) training plan. |
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2014-02-26 9:03 AM in reply to: Danno77 |
New user 230 penticton | Subject: RE: HM 6 days after HIM That is a very vague question as we dont have the full pictures of what your training look like. Yes, of course it s not a issue to do a half ironman and do a half marathon 7 days later.... if you dont the amount of work necessarly to get you through those 2 events without getting injury and recovering quickly enough. it s time now to get the work done.... |
2014-02-26 9:07 AM in reply to: jonnyo |
Regular 1161 Hamilton, IL | Subject: RE: HM 6 days after HIM Originally posted by jonnyo That is a very vague question as we dont have the full pictures of what your training look like. Yes, of course it s not a issue to do a half ironman and do a half marathon 7 days later.... if you dont the amount of work necessarly to get you through those 2 events without getting injury and recovering quickly enough. it s time now to get the work done.... i had always heard "rule of thumb" things like 'run a 5k two weeks after a marathon for your PR', etc. wondered if there was a similar dealio for HIM and HMs. |
2014-02-26 9:51 AM in reply to: Danno77 |
Expert 972 Falls Church | Subject: RE: HM 6 days after HIM You will definitely be able to run an HM if you've put in all the training needed for the HIM. As far as how you will perform and feel, depends on how much you effort put out in your HIM. I know that I would probably still be recovering and a PR would not be probable. |
2014-02-26 9:54 AM in reply to: hoffsquared |
Regular 1161 Hamilton, IL | Subject: RE: HM 6 days after HIM Originally posted by hoffsquared You will definitely be able to run an HM if you've put in all the training needed for the HIM. As far as how you will perform and feel, depends on how much you effort put out in your HIM. I know that I would probably still be recovering and a PR would not be probable. yeah, that's more what I was looking for. I've never done another done an HIM, so wasn't sure what recovery would be like. I'm sure I'll be able to do the HM. My volume of running should be more than my volume ever has been pre standalone-HM. |
2014-02-26 10:00 AM in reply to: Danno77 |
New user 230 penticton | Subject: RE: HM 6 days after HIM it s a individual response and really depend how deep was your fitness going into the half ironman. In 2006, i went into the World championship ironman hawaii very fit. Had a great solid race and 6 days later, back it up with a PR at a half ironman triathlon. I suffered terribly on the second race but while i didnt felt good...i was moving very quickly all day long! on the other hand, i had the opposite where i crumbled one week after a big race. it s not a easy thing to predict and i think it s highly depend of how motivated you are and ready to suffer on the second one!!!! but PR are possible! |
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2014-02-26 10:01 AM in reply to: Danno77 |
Pro 6191 | Subject: RE: HM 6 days after HIM Originally posted by Danno77 Originally posted by hoffsquared yeah, that's more what I was looking for. I've never done another done an HIM, so wasn't sure what recovery would be like. I'm sure I'll be able to do the HM. My volume of running should be more than my volume ever has been pre standalone-HM. You will definitely be able to run an HM if you've put in all the training needed for the HIM. As far as how you will perform and feel, depends on how much you effort put out in your HIM. I know that I would probably still be recovering and a PR would not be probable. If you race the HIM, be ready for a potentially crappy, awful-feeling HM the following week. Or, if you recover really well, you might feel great. If you just complete the HIM, you may feel better, you may not. Personally, I wouldn't recommend races that close together, but if you're looking at doing both, you probably have a good reason to want to do both... just mentally prepare yourself for a tough half marathon, and anything better than that will be a pleasant surprise. |
2014-02-26 10:03 AM in reply to: Danno77 |
553 St Catharines, Ontario | Subject: RE: HM 6 days after HIM Golden rule #9 For every mile run at race pace take a day off from doing any speed or race pace work. Run a 10k = take 6 days to recover with no hard workouts. I think you are asking for trouble unless your HM is a fun run. |
2014-02-26 10:14 AM in reply to: badmo77a |
Master 3888 Overland Park, KS | Subject: RE: HM 6 days after HIM Also depends on how many matches you burn on the bike as well. Last spring I ran 3 HM's in 4 weeks. PR'd the first one, the other two were respectable, last one could have PR'd but legs said "ummm....NO!". |
2014-02-26 10:15 AM in reply to: jonnyo |
Regular 1161 Hamilton, IL | Subject: RE: HM 6 days after HIM Originally posted by jonnyo it s a individual response and really depend how deep was your fitness going into the half ironman. In 2006, i went into the World championship ironman hawaii very fit. Had a great solid race and 6 days later, back it up with a PR at a half ironman triathlon. I suffered terribly on the second race but while i didnt felt good...i was moving very quickly all day long! on the other hand, i had the opposite where i crumbled one week after a big race. it s not a easy thing to predict and i think it s highly depend of how motivated you are and ready to suffer on the second one!!!! but PR are possible! All I can say is, "We'll see!" I have no clue what my level of fitness will be like, but my plan scares me (I remember when an Oly plan scared me, though, it's all relative) It's slightly daunting to think "I'm doing more this week than I've EVER done before and my taper has me doing this SAME volume in the week before a bigger race than I've ever done before." I feel as if I might have bitten off more than I can chew, but my plan has been made to give me a chance to perform well (for me), not just complete the HIM. If all goes well, I'll be under 6 for it. |
2014-02-26 10:19 AM in reply to: badmo77a |
Regular 1161 Hamilton, IL | Subject: RE: HM 6 days after HIM Originally posted by badmo77a Golden rule #9 For every mile run at race pace take a day off from doing any speed or race pace work. Run a 10k = take 6 days to recover with no hard workouts. I think you are asking for trouble unless your HM is a fun run. Yep, just a fun run. I can always just run with my wife! My plan was to basically sit on the couch for the week following the HIM, aside from my bike commutes and a jog or two to work the kinks out. This HM will be the last race of the year, so completely using everything is an option, but I don't plan on getting injured, either. Ain't nobody got time for that. |
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2014-02-26 10:25 AM in reply to: badmo77a |
New user 230 penticton | Subject: RE: HM 6 days after HIM Originally posted by badmo77a Golden rule #9 For every mile run at race pace take a day off from doing any speed or race pace work. Run a 10k = take 6 days to recover with no hard workouts. I think you are asking for trouble unless your HM is a fun run. not a big fan of rule like this. If at least we were discussion training load. speed work and race pace arent dangerous during recovery phase if done in small quantity and with proper recovery. When you take into consideration that most elite triathlete will race a olympic distance back to back...and to back and back,...very often, and do training and some speed work in between, that rules sure lose all it s meaning. The important is the fitness you have leading up to your first event, your level of experience etc. those will be the guide line as to what you can back up and what you should not attempt. |
2014-02-26 10:51 AM in reply to: 0 |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: HM 6 days after HIM
Personally I couldn't do what you're attempting, but that's because I'm 60 years old and know I couldn't recover in time to do the HM unless I treated it as a fun run and planned on walking a lot. I don't know if your logs are accurate, but with all due respect, your training volume seems a bit light for doing a HIM. Mark Edited by RedCorvette 2014-02-26 10:51 AM |
2014-02-26 12:43 PM in reply to: RedCorvette |
Regular 1161 Hamilton, IL | Subject: RE: HM 6 days after HIM Originally posted by RedCorvette
Personally I couldn't do what you're attempting, but that's because I'm 60 years old and know I couldn't recover in time to do the HM unless I treated it as a fun run and planned on walking a lot. I don't know if your logs are accurate, but with all due respect, your training volume seems a bit light for doing a HIM. Mark My logs are accurate. I'm training for an Oly in Mid May and the HIM is October 5. Am I not getting enough for the HIM considering that it's 7-8months out? i'll try to attach my predicted volume charts... (1656317_10101022170918385_1905934864_n.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 1656317_10101022170918385_1905934864_n.jpg (36KB - 0 downloads) |
2014-02-26 12:53 PM in reply to: Danno77 |
1660 | Subject: RE: HM 6 days after HIM You'll be fine. Go for it. Don't go in expecting a big PR on the HM, but as long as you go in with a good attitude, you'll surprise yourself with how fast you'll go.
The HIM shouldn't wipe you out for that long. Combined with the taper before the HIM, and you'll be set up well to race the HM. The pounding from a HIM isn't bad at all - most of the race is nonweightbearing so as long as your HIM training went well, you'll be fine for the followup HM. Won't have to worry about big increase in injury risk. (You would have to if the preceding race was a marathon or IM.)
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2014-02-26 1:19 PM in reply to: Danno77 |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: HM 6 days after HIM Originally posted by Danno77 Originally posted by RedCorvette My logs are accurate. I'm training for an Oly in Mid May and the HIM is October 5. Am I not getting enough for the HIM considering that it's 7-8months out? i'll try to attach my predicted volume charts...
Personally I couldn't do what you're attempting, but that's because I'm 60 years old and know I couldn't recover in time to do the HM unless I treated it as a fun run and planned on walking a lot. I don't know if your logs are accurate, but with all due respect, your training volume seems a bit light for doing a HIM. Mark You might want to take a look at the training plans here on BT to get an idea of the recommended training volumes for different distances. FWIW, I'm using a 20 week custom Oly plan to train for the Rev3 FL Oly in November. It calls for roughly 75K of swimming, 800 miles of cycling and 400 miles of running over the 20 weeks. It's a little like comparing apples & oranges because you're younger & faster than I am, but It looks like we both logged about the same amount of training last year. But mine was only in support of some sprint tri's, a HM and a handful of 5K's. Everyone's going to be a bit different, I'd still say that you need to significantly increase your volume to get ready for a HIM. At the same time I would be concerned about how fast you ramp up your training volume. Too much too soon can lead to injury and set back everything. Good luck with your training. Mark |
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2014-02-26 1:43 PM in reply to: RedCorvette |
Regular 1161 Hamilton, IL | Subject: RE: HM 6 days after HIM Originally posted by RedCorvette You might want to take a look at the training plans here on BT to get an idea of the recommended training volumes for different distances. FWIW, I'm using a 20 week custom Oly plan to train for the Rev3 FL Oly in November. It calls for roughly 75K of swimming, 800 miles of cycling and 400 miles of running over the 20 weeks. It's a little like comparing apples & oranges because you're younger & faster than I am, but It looks like we both logged about the same amount of training last year. But mine was only in support of some sprint tri's, a HM and a handful of 5K's. Everyone's going to be a bit different, I'd still say that you need to significantly increase your volume to get ready for a HIM. At the same time I would be concerned about how fast you ramp up your training volume. Too much too soon can lead to injury and set back everything. Good luck with your training. Mark The above plan is the 3x Olympic found here on BT, but after completion I continue the same percentages for increasing, but I did cap off the swim towards the end of the training, you keep adding that 10% and it get's crazy considering that a HIM swim isn't a LOT longer than an OLY swim. My plan ends up being pretty heavy on the bike, but that's an area that I feel I have the most to grow in and given the length of the bike in an HIM, I figure I can get a lot more time savings by improving there. The final big weeks leading up to the HIM are 1100-1200 minutes of total volume. I thought (and maybe wrongly so) that 18-20 hours per week was OVERshooting what most HIM competitors do (especially for a novice like myself) |
2014-02-26 2:30 PM in reply to: Danno77 |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: HM 6 days after HIM Originally posted by Danno77 Originally posted by RedCorvette The above plan is the 3x Olympic found here on BT, but after completion I continue the same percentages for increasing, but I did cap off the swim towards the end of the training, you keep adding that 10% and it get's crazy considering that a HIM swim isn't a LOT longer than an OLY swim. My plan ends up being pretty heavy on the bike, but that's an area that I feel I have the most to grow in and given the length of the bike in an HIM, I figure I can get a lot more time savings by improving there. The final big weeks leading up to the HIM are 1100-1200 minutes of total volume. I thought (and maybe wrongly so) that 18-20 hours per week was OVERshooting what most HIM competitors do (especially for a novice like myself) You might want to take a look at the training plans here on BT to get an idea of the recommended training volumes for different distances. FWIW, I'm using a 20 week custom Oly plan to train for the Rev3 FL Oly in November. It calls for roughly 75K of swimming, 800 miles of cycling and 400 miles of running over the 20 weeks. It's a little like comparing apples & oranges because you're younger & faster than I am, but It looks like we both logged about the same amount of training last year. But mine was only in support of some sprint tri's, a HM and a handful of 5K's. Everyone's going to be a bit different, I'd still say that you need to significantly increase your volume to get ready for a HIM. At the same time I would be concerned about how fast you ramp up your training volume. Too much too soon can lead to injury and set back everything. Good luck with your training. Mark Running has always been my weakest event and I've tried to focus on that for the last couple of years. That being said, the biggest improvement in my overall finishing times have been due to my improvement on the bike, not the run. So I think you're on the right track by working on your riding. I also have found that there's a direct correlation between my bike fitness and my running results. I'd also agree that there's a point of diminishing returns with swimming. You can spend a LOT of time in the pool with marginal improvement. I adhere to the maxim that you can't win a triathlon during the swim, but you can sure lose it. As long as I can finish the swim mid-pack in my AG, then I'm OK with that. Good luck with your training. A plan is just a starting point and I'm sure you'll be tweaking along the way. Mark |
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