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Base Period Expectations
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 2014-03-22 6:22 PM |
 5 |  Subject: Base Period ExpectationsI've registered for my first HIM in September (Augusta HIM). I've got 16 weeks left in my base period before I start my build. I was wondering what kind of miles (distance) I should be aiming for by the end of my base period. For example, so far I've worked up to my long runs being around 8mi, my long rides around 25mi and continuous swim of around 600m (swimming is my weakness). Should I be able to do the full distance (i.e. 56mi bike) by the end of my base period? Or, should I not be worried about the distance and just "put in the hours" based off my annual training plan. Background: This is my 2nd season of triathlon, but my first attempt at anything more than the few sprint races I did last year without a training plan. I would love to be able to finish the Augusta HIM in under 6:30hrs, but the reality is I'll be ecstatic with just finishing. I'm 29yo male and otherwise healthy with no sporting background. I'm using Training Peaks virtual coach to develop my training plans. Long time reader but first time poster! Thanks! Peter Shellabarger CPT, AN, CRNA |
| 2014-03-22 7:27 PM in reply to: pashellabarger |
Regular 5477    LHOTP | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Firstly, welcome to posting on BT :) Don't worry too much about distances with your base period. 16 weeks left of base and your run looks like it's in very good position, bike could come up a bit. If you are feeling like the swim is your weakness, I would strongly urge you to spend more time here in your base. The HIM swim is no joke, and slogging thorough it (physically and mentally) will set you up for a tough day. If you are a healthy (injury free) 29 yo male, you absolutely should be able to finish that HIM, and 6:30 hours is very realistic, even for someone without an athletic history.
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| 2014-03-22 11:06 PM in reply to: pashellabarger |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Base is not a 4 month block of training. It is the accumulation of all training up to the present day. Base training is one of the biggest misconceptions in triathlon. |
| 2014-03-23 8:04 AM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Originally posted by bcagle25 Base is not a 4 month block of training. It is the accumulation of all training up to the present day. Base training is one of the biggest misconceptions in triathlon. What do you call the phase of training he's in? Any feedback to the training part of his question? |
| 2014-03-23 9:01 AM in reply to: switch |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Originally posted by switch What do you call the phase of training he's in? Any feedback to the training part of his question? Personally, I would call it building my base of fitness but the buzzword police would probably ticket me. I think your assessment is pretty close to mine. I would be concerned about the swim. Getting out of the water wiped makes for a long day. Building up a weekly long ride would time well spent. If time constrained, shorter more intense bikes, with a single weekly long ride, gradually increasing in length is the way I would go. |
| 2014-03-23 9:51 AM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Originally posted by bcagle25 Base is not a 4 month block of training. It is the accumulation of all training up to the present day. Base training is one of the biggest misconceptions in triathlon. Agree with thsi, but in support of the "OP", "base" is what he is doing according to the his virtual coach, thus his reference to it. I htink it's a reasonable question. so 16 weeks in what virtual coach calls "base" before it starts cycling through a predetermined build 1, 2, 3 peak and taper cycle (I think?) To the OP, it's hard to asnwer without knowing the context of all the trianing. Rather than training by hours per week, train towards specific targets and do the volume & intensity that supports that. |
| 2014-03-23 1:43 PM in reply to: switch |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Originally posted by switch Originally posted by bcagle25 Base is not a 4 month block of training. It is the accumulation of all training up to the present day. Base training is one of the biggest misconceptions in triathlon. What do you call the phase of training he's in? Any feedback to the training part of his question? I know this question wasn't for me but I just thought I'd add this in. I'd call it a foundation period. (followed by preparation, then specialization). I think those terms are less loaded ... carry fewer assumptions than "base period". But that's semantics. The bigger question is what should he be doing. Should he be able to ride 56 miles in 4 months? That's not unreasonable. When he asks about "getting the hours in", well...how many hours what's hsi average pace, what else is he spending time doing, etc. will working towards 56 miles now take time away from the swim for example, which I agree is lagging based only on continuous distance swum compared to run & bike abilities. It's only a tiny piece of his big training puzzle. I'm curious what else the virtual coach has prescribed. |
| 2014-03-24 8:36 AM in reply to: marcag |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by switch What do you call the phase of training he's in? Personally, I would call it building my base of fitness but the buzzword police would probably ticket me. I think your assessment is pretty close to mine. I would be concerned about the swim. Getting out of the water wiped makes for a long day. Building up a weekly long ride would time well spent. If time constrained, shorter more intense bikes, with a single weekly long ride, gradually increasing in length is the way I would go. Any feedback to the training part of his question? Haha--thanks for this. Yeah, I'm glad my ability to participate in the sport isn't determined by me using the correct terminology. |
| 2014-03-24 8:51 AM in reply to: AdventureBear |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Originally posted by AdventureBear Originally posted by switch I know this question wasn't for me but I just thought I'd add this in. I'd call it a foundation period. (followed by preparation, then specialization). I think those terms are less loaded ... carry fewer assumptions than "base period". But that's semantics. The bigger question is what should he be doing. Should he be able to ride 56 miles in 4 months? That's not unreasonable. When he asks about "getting the hours in", well...how many hours what's hsi average pace, what else is he spending time doing, etc. will working towards 56 miles now take time away from the swim for example, which I agree is lagging based only on continuous distance swum compared to run & bike abilities. It's only a tiny piece of his big training puzzle. I'm curious what else the virtual coach has prescribed. Originally posted by bcagle25 Base is not a 4 month block of training. It is the accumulation of all training up to the present day. Base training is one of the biggest misconceptions in triathlon. What do you call the phase of training he's in? Any feedback to the training part of his question? I guess I don't know the history behind "base period" and that being a "loaded" term. Was "base" ever used to describe the out of season period of training or am I just misremembering that? I'll be the first to admit I don't pay a lot of attention to stuff like that and most certainly have it wrong, but when someone posts, like the OP did, a question about their first HIM (which he would be "ecstatic to just finish") and they say in their post that it is their FIRST TIME POSTING, I am baffled when people are anything other than helpful and encouraging. This is BEGINNER Triathlete. Is "base period" the correct term-- I guess not. Who cares? Can everybody who reads his post (especially coaches) know what he's referring to enough to answer his question. Jeez, I hope so. Suzanne, I appreciate your answer, "But that's just semantics. The bigger question is what he should be doing?" You makes some good follow-up points to try to address this athlete's "training puzzle." :) I hope the OP comes back and gives us some more info.
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| 2014-03-24 9:15 AM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Extreme Veteran 2261 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Originally posted by bcagle25 Base is not a 4 month block of training. It is the accumulation of all training up to the present day. Base training is one of the biggest misconceptions in triathlon. You guys are killing me. Periodization consists of a "base" phase, a "build" phase, and a "peak" phase. You may call those phases whatever you want, but anyone who wants to call me out from using the "b" word, bring it! The misconception with "base" is that some people think that all base consists of is long, slow efforts. Lots of time in Z1-2 with almost no effort above even zone 3, which is not the case. Your base phase is when you want to build some of your sharpest efforts (VO2 level) that will eventually transition to something more specific to your race.
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| 2014-03-24 9:45 AM in reply to: pashellabarger |
Extreme Veteran 2261 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Originally posted by pashellabarger I'm using Training Peaks virtual coach to develop my training plans. Long time reader but first time poster! Thanks! Peter Shellabarger CPT, AN, CRNA Since you're on TrainingPeaks, I want to highly recommend Matt Fitzgerald's programs. I used his plan for the marathon and am using his Olumpic for the most part now. His plans are very solid, and I've learned a lot following them. |
| 2014-03-24 9:46 AM in reply to: msteiner |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Originally posted by msteiner Originally posted by bcagle25 Base is not a 4 month block of training. It is the accumulation of all training up to the present day. Base training is one of the biggest misconceptions in triathlon. ...Periodization consists of a "base" phase, a "build" phase, and a "peak" phase...
No, it doesn't necessarily. Periodization is a concept, not a model. Base Phase >>>Build Phase>>>Peak Phase is only one interpretation of the concept. Periodization is the concept that training progresses from general to specific. That's why there can be so many opinions regarding training approaches, and none of them are wrong. IMO, the confusion arises from the use of the word "base" to describe both a training phase and a type of fitness. I don't think there's anything wrong with explaining this to new posters as long as we answer their question in the process. FWIW, this confusion is why we tend not to use the word during conversations between coaches or with our athletes at Steel City Endurance.
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| 2014-03-24 10:12 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 2261 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations No, it doesn't necessarily. Periodization is a concept, not a model. Base Phase >>>Build Phase>>>Peak Phase is only one interpretation of the concept. I agree with this, and I bring up Periodization, because it's a concept that has worked very well for me and uses the "b" word. Originally posted by TriMyBest
Periodization is the concept that training progresses from general to specific. That's why there can be so many opinions regarding training approaches, and none of them are wrong. I also agree with this, and I attempted to describe periodization briefly without getting too detailed. Originally posted by TriMyBest IMO, the confusion arises from the use of the word "base" to describe both a training phase and a type of fitness. I don't think there's anything wrong with explaining this to new posters as long as we answer their question in the process. FWIW, this confusion is why we tend not to use the word during conversations between coaches or with our athletes at Steel City Endurance. I agree with this as well. I just think that we get caught up in acting like base is a dirty word, and it isn't.
Edited by msteiner 2014-03-24 10:12 AM |
| 2014-03-24 10:59 AM in reply to: #4969546 |
| 5 | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Sorry for not getting back sooner. I used the terms that were used by Joel Friel in his books, so if I'm wrong then I guess he's wrong too. Either way, yes I've started to add in some Z3 work (as my virtual coach prescribed) , but it's mostly been Z1 and Z2 for the base. My annual training hours were set @ 500hrs/year, but that had me doing way too much for me to be honest, so I just cut it down to 400hrs. Right now my long runs are around 11min miles running moderate hilly courses staying in Z2 and pushing into Z3 on hills. I just started getting outside on the bike because the weather sucks in Missouri, but on my trainer rides I've done 25 miles in 2hrs, all in Z2. I'm swimming 4 times a week. My form has improved quite a bit, but still working on endurance. The wetsuit makes things way easier, so I know I've got to work on body possition and getting my feet higher. Times for 100m are about 2:05 when swimming distance, and I can do about 1:50 with the wetsuit. By "putting in the hours" I mean, should I even care about how far I can go, or should I just concern myself with hitting my training goals bases in prescribed training hours (i.e 14 hrs this week). Training peaks only gives you training hours based on your annual training goals, but doesn't tell you how far you should be able to go in each sport at each benchmark. I've been splitting my time with half spent on the bike, quarter on the run and quarter on the swim. |
| 2014-03-24 12:25 PM in reply to: msteiner |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Originally posted by msteiner Originally posted by bcagle25 Base is not a 4 month block of training. It is the accumulation of all training up to the present day. Base training is one of the biggest misconceptions in triathlon. You guys are killing me. Periodization consists of a "base" phase, a "build" phase, and a "peak" phase. You may call those phases whatever you want, but anyone who wants to call me out from using the "b" word, bring it! The misconception with "base" is that some people think that all base consists of is long, slow efforts. Lots of time in Z1-2 with almost no effort above even zone 3, which is not the case. Your base phase is when you want to build some of your sharpest efforts (VO2 level) that will eventually transition to something more specific to your race.
Right, that's why I don't like using the term because then you have to explain this EVERY SINGLE TIME. Call it something different gets people to think differently. :-) |
| 2014-03-24 12:33 PM in reply to: 0 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Originally posted by pashellabarger By "putting in the hours" I mean, should I even care about how far I can go, or should I just concern myself with hitting my training goals bases in prescribed training hours (i.e 14 hrs this week). Training peaks only gives you training hours based on your annual training goals, but doesn't tell you how far you should be able to go in each sport at each benchmark. I've been splitting my time with half spent on the bike, quarter on the run and quarter on the swim. Its too non-specific to be helpful. I agree with buying a specific plan and ditching the virtual coach. Buy one of Joe Friel's plan on training peaks since you are using his book. When working with athletes on their "First" whatever, I choose weekly hours according to what they can currently and have recently been able to support, not on how many hours they may have available or by annual hours "needed" based on target distance When I first started out and was doing similar training plans based on friels hourly tables, I would use the tables but for 1 month I'd have an athlete at "200 annual hours", then as they improved I'd shift their column to "300 annual hours", then to "400 annual hours" so the plan grew as the athletes abilities grew. The first time I attempted this was preparing a mountain biker for the Leadville 100 over a 6 month period. I looked at the target hours I thought he would need in the 6 weeks leading up to the race. (let's say it was 600 annual hours). I looked at what Friel suggested as base hours for 6 months out...it was too many for him at that time. So I just shifted over a few columns and we did 4 weeks each at 300, 400, 500, 600. For my first attempt at planning training for an ultra distance mountain biker, it worked out really well and he got a silver buckle! At the same time his most intense training was 6 months out and we gradually tapered to "100 mile trail race" pacing as we got closer. It's the opposite of what Friel's book suggests, unless his more recent updates have been significantly altered. You'll find a lot of different philsophies on this but most coaches who have read beyond Friel will tell you that you should be using a mix of all intensities in moderation at all times of the year. Closest to your race do the most specific training. Further away from your race, you can do training that supports your weakest areas which for many triathletes include shorter harder pacing. Fast then Far, Strong then Long, Raise the Left Fill the Right are all slogans that describe what some call "reverse periodization". So in summary, no don't just put in the hours. Have a specific target and purpose. It's fine to do all zone 2 if you want but it takes a lot of training time. And since your first half is so far away (when is it again? All I recall is that the prescribed base is 16 weeks, so I'm guessing it's at least 5 months away). You can be making a lot of improvements in overall fitness gains by doing a broad mix of different intensities, not worrying about going too long just yet because that impacts recovery time. Sorry for the "non answer" but I think that msteiner provided the best one so far. buy a specific plan. and use what you've learned from Friel's book to supplement it. Edited by AdventureBear 2014-03-24 12:39 PM |
| 2014-03-24 12:41 PM in reply to: pashellabarger |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Originally posted by pashellabarger Sorry for not getting back sooner. I used the terms that were used by Joel Friel in his books, so if I'm wrong then I guess he's wrong too. You are not wrong, nor his Friel. But it is Friel's philosophy and many other coaches have very different ones. He has also changed his philosophy over the years and checking in on his personal blog will give you good insights as well. I don't know if his book editions are current with his current thinking. |
| 2014-03-24 1:05 PM in reply to: msteiner |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Originally posted by msteiner Originally posted by bcagle25 Base is not a 4 month block of training. It is the accumulation of all training up to the present day. Base training is one of the biggest misconceptions in triathlon. You guys are killing me. Periodization consists of a "base" phase, a "build" phase, and a "peak" phase. You may call those phases whatever you want, but anyone who wants to call me out from using the "b" word, bring it! The misconception with "base" is that some people think that all base consists of is long, slow efforts. Lots of time in Z1-2 with almost no effort above even zone 3, which is not the case. Your base phase is when you want to build some of your sharpest efforts (VO2 level) that will eventually transition to something more specific to your race.
Indeed you are correct. What you are referring to here is more applicable to the polarized training model not really a "base" block. |
| 2014-03-24 2:15 PM in reply to: AdventureBear |
Veteran 2842 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Originally posted by AdventureBear Originally posted by pashellabarger Sorry for not getting back sooner. I used the terms that were used by Joel Friel in his books, so if I'm wrong then I guess he's wrong too. You are not wrong, nor his Friel. But it is Friel's philosophy and many other coaches have very different ones. He has also changed his philosophy over the years and checking in on his personal blog will give you good insights as well. I don't know if his book editions are current with his current thinking. Ugh - I have his current book ("Your Best Triathlon"). Guess it's off to his blog to see if he currently thinks that is the way to go… or if there is another book in the offing. Good thing we all have unlimited time. Actually, it's a good thing this is fun to TRY to figure out. Matt PS - sometimes I wonder if coaches/luminaries in the sport change their opinion every so often to be able to release a new book. I know - I'm a cynic. Through and through… That said, the book has worked for me so far as a shell plan, so all good, even if it's not "current." M |
| 2014-03-24 2:59 PM in reply to: mcmanusclan5 |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Originally posted by mcmanusclan5 Originally posted by AdventureBear Originally posted by pashellabarger Sorry for not getting back sooner. I used the terms that were used by Joel Friel in his books, so if I'm wrong then I guess he's wrong too. You are not wrong, nor his Friel. But it is Friel's philosophy and many other coaches have very different ones. He has also changed his philosophy over the years and checking in on his personal blog will give you good insights as well. I don't know if his book editions are current with his current thinking. Ugh - I have his current book ("Your Best Triathlon"). Guess it's off to his blog to see if he currently thinks that is the way to go… or if there is another book in the offing. Good thing we all have unlimited time. Actually, it's a good thing this is fun to TRY to figure out. Matt PS - sometimes I wonder if coaches/luminaries in the sport change their opinion every so often to be able to release a new book. I know - I'm a cynic. Through and through… That said, the book has worked for me so far as a shell plan, so all good, even if it's not "current." M A good coach always knows that s/he doesn't know everything and s/he is constantly changing their outlook based on experience, results, guided by a scientific approach. |
| 2014-03-24 3:08 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Expert 1224 Is this Heaven? No, it's Iowa. | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations [] A good coach always knows that s/he doesn't know everything and s/he is constantly changing their outlook based on experience, results, guided by a scientific approach.
Totally agree. This thread makes my head hurt. |
| 2014-03-24 8:11 PM in reply to: siouxcityhawk |
New user 230 penticton | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations not a big fan of concept of base.... build, etc. lots of words to confuse people and every single coach as a different definition. Not my cup of tee... in off season...i focus on non specific aspect with my athletes...and as races comes around...we get very specific. Every single day contribute to there aerobic base.... every single day of the year...racing included... |
| 2014-03-24 9:15 PM in reply to: jonnyo |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Originally posted by jonnyo not a big fan of concept of base.... build, etc. lots of words to confuse people and every single coach as a different definition. Not my cup of tee... in off season...i focus on non specific aspect with my athletes...and as races comes around...we get very specific. Every single day contribute to there aerobic base.... every single day of the year...racing included... Nice to hear this! So to the OP, confused yet? The nice thing is that if you FOLLOW FRIEL"S PLAN, you'll probably do fine and not get hurt. However, you have specific questions that his book apparently isn't able to answer for you, thus...you'll need to choose which pill you want to take.  |
| 2014-03-24 9:16 PM in reply to: jonnyo |
Member 258 | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations This is not really what you asked, but I would take the time now in your base period to get a few swim lessons to work on your technique. Especially if the swim is your weakness. I am a comfortable swimmer (1:45/100) and I invested in 4 lessons last year and it was so worth it. |
| 2014-03-24 9:42 PM in reply to: RunningJoke |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Base Period Expectations Originally posted by RunningJoke This is not really what you asked, but I would take the time now in your base period to get a few swim lessons to work on your technique. Especially if the swim is your weakness. I am a comfortable swimmer (1:45/100) and I invested in 4 lessons last year and it was so worth it. I love your username! |
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