Kona elitism. (Page 6)

Originally posted by Danno77 No, I'm not saying it's crap, I'm saying that the concept that you are faster at a 140.6 just because you are fast at a 70.3 is crap. Breaking records is awesome, I get it, but you are only as fast as you are today. You cannot say you were the best before you are the best. This doesn't even address all the stuff that can happen to an athlete. Too many variables. all a win says is who is the best on the day of the race, who is injury free, who's bike had no issues, etc.

Originally posted by Left Brain

Really?  Dave Scott?  Scott Tinley? Mark Allen?  ITU guys?

Crowie, yeah, but the influx of ITU racers is really just starting.....I'd argue that Crowie was ahead of his time, and look what he's done.

 

here, this is a fun read:

 

http://triathlon.competitor.com/2013/09/news/dave-scott-chats-from-events-dc-nations-triathlon_83593

Originally posted by Left Brain

I see you went to zed's school of circular ninjaism. LMAO

Originally posted by Jason N

Macca was ahead of Crowie as far as making the leap from dominating ITU to long course.  Hence why he made an effort to go back to ITU...and we all know how that went.  But kudos to Macca anyway.  Not many 39 year olds that can even hang in ITU to begin with.

Originally posted by Danno77 Not really circular. Spiraling. And usually in a downhill spiral.

Originally posted by Jason N

In general...the people who think the cream of the crop is racing WTC...haven't watched ITU racing.  I was one of them when I first got into the sport and only knew about Kona.  Do yourself a favor and watch the ITU World Cup circuit.  It just started in Auckland this past weekend.  Amazing stuff. 

Originally posted by bcagle25 YEP! But, but ITU guys don't know how to bike, they just draft! Oh wait Frodeno has been killing 70.3's and just started last August. Can anyone fill me in how the Brownlees did in Abu Dhabi? Curious to know how Javier Gomez does in long course, oh thats right he pretty much destroyed the field in Barcelona last year, and Panama this year, wonder who was second....oh yeah another ITU guy! Think all these guys are biking faster and then running away from everyone. Ivan Rana anyone? Anyone? Think he won Cozumel in his debut then backed it up with a 6th in Kona, but of course he is only one of the world best once he races Kona, never make that assumption before (rolls eyes) But no one knows about these people until they do IRONMAN! Side note: People complain about Ironman's live coverage al the time, no live feed, no accurate splits, bad coverage, blah, blah, blah....its an 8 hour race and people tune in? In ITU it's under 2 hours, they give you an HD feed with multiple cameras, great commentary, fast paced, live splits, etc. Yeah it costs about $30 bucks for 16 races but well worth it.

Originally posted by Left Brain

Sure, and he deserves to be mentioned....I was going off the article.  Macca actually took the time to spend about 30 minutes with my son, one on one. after his Hy-vee race in Des Moines 2 years ago.  Just a great guy!!

Originally posted by sheesleeva I clicked on the study link which "evidences "that a large number of triathletes dope. There's no evidence, and I am aware of a lot of age groupers doping – people who take more than 14 hours to finish an IM. at the end of the day, protect the people who dope are not differentiated by finishing times, it's mentality. I choose to believe the sport is pretty clean. if people working full-time jobs, with limited funds and no coach can manage to do sub 12 hours, it's not so far-fetched that a pro is only a couple hours better - sans doping. regarding elitism - if you get in the allottery and you felt that there was elitism and snobs, make sure and take that person's number and as you see them on the course yell "that's right mofo lottery and I still am close enough to see you! lot-to-ry!"

Originally posted by missyw2you

 

love that. thanks! 

Originally posted by dmiller5

iIf you have the time, energy, and desire to do this during your ironman at kona, you're doing it wrong.

Originally posted by missyw2you

I agree that I would like to see more race coverage during the televised event, but I understand that it's a long day and would lose a lot of view attention otherwise.

I would never be smug to another althete, especially in a way that boasts the lottery. I just don't like the opposite, being demeaned as an athlete because I would be there on a lottery slot. I did like the idea behind the statement in the fact that if I am there, that should be all that matters, be confident and enjoy the experience.

Originally posted by dmiller5

iIf you have the time, energy, and desire to do this during your ironman at kona, you're doing it wrong.

Originally posted by Rogillio That subject line is accurate. The people are Kona are the elite athletes in this sport! They do the lotter to for the drama....becasue you are not gonna have many (is any) 16:59 finishers crawling in agony across the finish line as the sob uncontrollably who actually qualified to get there. I wish they would have a second Kona race for the mortals (non elites).

Originally posted by Left Brain

The difference is that the ITU guys can train up for the distance.....the IM guys can't train up for speed.  Down the road it will be ex ITU guys who own everything.  Watch and see.  It's a simple formula.

Originally posted by GMAN 19030

Pretty much this.  If A. Brownlee, J. Brownlee and J. Gomez set their sights on Kona this year I'd give even money odds they would finish 1,2,3.  I'd also give even money odds A. Brownlee would win.  Look at Macca.  He came from that ITU background and eventually switched to long course and did quite well.  He went back to ITU style in 2012 and got absolutely schooled.  He looked old and slow.  The ITU elite are on a different level than the top of the food chain IM guys, who tend to be older and slower.  Fast to slow is a lot easier to pull off than slow to fast.  Put the Kona Champ (Frederik Van Lierde) in a stacked ITU field and he would get annihilated.

We're starting to see the two worlds collide so things could be interesting over the next few years.

Originally posted by eabeam I can't think of many sports where recreational athletes are able to compete in the same events with the pro's... or even the competitive elite. Off of the top of my head, I think of Tri, Marathon, poker, and jiu-jitsu/grappling tournaments.  

Originally posted by LarchmontTri



In terms of being smug, just because someone qualifies, that doesn't mean they'll be fast on race day. Folks can qualify 10-12 months ahead of time, for example at IMFL in November for the next year's Kona race, so there's no saying they won't be couch potatoes once they qualify for the next 6 months and do only half-a$$ training for Kona. While a lottery person may really train well and get a great time at Kona.

So, my point is this, qualifiers and lottery winners are both on the same start line and you have the same 17 hours to finish. Everybody has a story how they got there, but once the race starts, does it really matter anymore? No.

Originally posted by dmiller5

To be fair he was old and slow...  I think a better comparison would be a young IM athlete trying to switch to ITU. We all know the speed goes and the endurance stays/improves with age.

Originally posted by GMAN 19030

He was less than a year from winning Kona when he started the ITU quest.  He wasn't that old and slow. 

Originally posted by GMAN 19030

Pretty much this.  If A. Brownlee, J. Brownlee and J. Gomez set their sights on Kona this year I'd give even money odds they would finish 1,2,3.  I'd also give even money odds A. Brownlee would win.  Look at Macca.  He came from that ITU background and eventually switched to long course and did quite well.  He went back to ITU style in 2012 and got absolutely schooled.  He looked old and slow.  The ITU elite are on a different level than the top of the food chain IM guys, who tend to be older and slower.  Fast to slow is a lot easier to pull off than slow to fast.  Put the Kona Champ (Frederik Van Lierde) in a stacked ITU field and he would get annihilated.

We're starting to see the two worlds collide so things could be interesting over the next few years.

Originally posted by lisac957

Lighten up, Francis?