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Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law?
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 2014-09-07 9:53 PM |
Veteran 185  |  Subject: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law?California has a new law mandating that drivers allow three feet of space when passing cyclists on the left. See the bill: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id... As both a cyclist and a motorist, I have mixed emotions about this new law. The drivers in the area where I live have to be 2nd in line to the stereotypical New York City drivers. They are always in a hurry, always trying to pass you, always distracted by cellphones and texting, and always pissed off! I have a healthy fear of cars, knowing that there is no contest between a bike and a car. Yesterday I was driving down a fairly busy street and observed a man on a mountain bike riding down the center of the road with a line of cars behind him who could not pass him. The speed limit was 45, and there was a designated bike lane on the right hand side of the road. I hope that this doesn't become commonplace, as if it does, we are bound to see more cyclists getting hit by cars. Pedestrians also have the right of way in California. They are supposed to have the right of way only in crosswalks, but over the past 15 or 20 years pedestrians have become more brazen. I frequently read about pedestrians getting hit by cars. Please, people, don't be foolish. Realize that you can be very right, and very dead at the same time. What are your thoughts? |
| 2014-09-07 10:19 PM in reply to: punkster |
Veteran 732  Pittsburgh, PA | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? We've had this law in PA for a year or so, and I think it's a good idea. I think there's always a subset of cyclists (and human beings in general) who are idiots, but I don't think any cyclist who used to be conscientious is saying "Well, now I'll ride in the middle of the highway, and cars have to give me 3 feet when they pass!" It's been a good reminder to me when I'm driving, but the big problem is educating all drivers about it. I don't think anyone who's not a serious cyclist knows about it. I'd like to get a bumper sticker advertising it, if one were readily available. |
| 2014-09-07 10:37 PM in reply to: punkster |
New user 47 Harrisburg, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? This is the 'law' in PA but I believe the space people give me as I ride on the white line on the roads with no shoulders is more out of courtesy than the law. If I could self report and mail tickets to all the motorists that don't follow the 4' passing law, we would have enough surplus to actually put in biking lanes. I would love to actually know how many tickets have even been issued in violation or even know how many people are aware of the law. Best thing is always remain vigilant and never assume anyone is going to give you plenty of space...even if it is the law |
| 2014-09-08 9:15 AM in reply to: punkster |
1053 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? Provided they let motorists cross the double yellow when passing (or at least "look the other way") it would cause issues here (New Jersey). Most roads here are too congested, and in many places too narrow. There are some decent areas to ride, but in many cases just to get to those areas it is inevitable that you will need to ride through some congested spots. That said, 3 feet is still not a lot of room, and most drivers who are paying attention will give at least that much. It is the drivers that aren't paying attention that are the issue, and those are the ones that will run you down from behind without even looking up. I am also generally against adding more laws that are governed by fines that do nothing more than give the state and local municipalities more excuses to line their coffers. I don't know all the laws in all states, and I don't even know them in my state, but I am pretty sure that in every state, if a motorist "buzzes" a cyclist in front of a law enforcement officer that they have some existing law to act on (unsafe passing?). More laws aren't necessary, a bit of common sense is. Perhaps equipping bicycles with sensors that alert drivers that a cyclist is in the road ahead would help. If they do insist on putting the 3 foot passing laws in place, instead of the fines going towards paying some politicians third pension, or giving them another pay raise, it can be used to fund something like this. If you are traveling at X speed, and there is a cyclist in a given area that a vehicle is encroaching upon and would put the cyclist at risk, then sensor could beep or flash to alert the driver. They already have blind spot sensors, so why not this? |
| 2014-09-09 9:20 AM in reply to: punkster |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? I think anything that adds to pedestrian/cyclist safety is a move in the right direction. We've had that law here in Florida for a while, but there is absolutely zero enforcement, so it goes to the wayside. Actually, they pretty much hate pedestrians and cyclists here to the point where the Sheriff in my County publicly stated that he would fault a pedestrian killed in a crosswalk, even with the signal. Now, Florida is different as it has been named the most dangerous state in the country for like five years in a row for pedestrians and cyclists (see below). So no matter how bad you think you have it, we're worse, and that's via statistics. And it's not old people either. Statically they're one of the safest groups if you actually look it up. It's mostly pickup trucks that I have to deal with. They like to buzz cyclists...and I'm not sure why (SDS perhaps?). Anyway, they sometimes forget that their trailer or boat is wider than their truck and I've actually had parts of boat trailers brush my helmet. Point is, without enforcement, laws are pointless, and somewhere like here where there is a systemic hatred of those outside of cars, it's a dangerous place. In my opinion, anything that can help move out of this is a step in the right direction, but I wouldn't hold your breath for any big changes. http://www.ibamag.com/news/the-10-most-dangerous-states-for-cyclist... http://nextcity.org/daily/entry/infographic-which-states-are-the-mo... http://money.msn.com/auto-insurance/article.aspx?post=5cb995dd-fae9... (Capture.JPG) Attachments ---------------- Capture.JPG (38KB - 8 downloads) |
| 2014-09-09 10:03 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Champion 7036  Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? Also in FL and have to say that I've seen little effect of the 3' law since it was enacted. I've certainly never seen it enforced. I just got appointed to the Sarasota County Commission Bicycle, Pedestrian & Trails Advisory Committee. Have my first meeting next week. Not sure what to expect, or how much influence the Advisory Committee actually has, but looking forward to offering whatever input I can. Mark |
| 2014-09-09 11:05 AM in reply to: RedCorvette |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? we have a 4 foot law here in PA, and the only ones that know about it is cyclists. I've never seen or heard of the police enforcing it. My area tends to be very good for the most part but we do have idiots here there. In the spring I had a pick up truck run me off the road intentially, screaming and yelling that I didn't belong on the road. I gave the police a partial plate, make a model of the truck, they did not seem very enthusiastic about doing anything. The 3 foot law/ 4 foot law is a good idea but no single thing is going to fix the problems between cars and bikes. Next year I want to rig up a go pro(or something similar) for training ride so when there is an issue I have a video to take to law enforcement. |
| 2014-09-09 11:26 AM in reply to: mike761 |
Elite 3770 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? Haven't seen anything change in the past year its been in MD. |
| 2014-09-09 12:44 PM in reply to: turtlegirl |
| Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? It's not really much of a substantive change to California law as much as giving it definition. The standing law is below, which allows a cyclist to be in teh lane if there is a "substandard" width lane, which is a lane that is not safe for both a car and a bike. I recall reading somewhere what those definitions were, and that very few lanes would meet this definition. The problem with the new bill is although it's a start, it's utterly toothless. The penalties are an infraction for $35, and if there is a collision with physical injury, it's $220. Big whoop....
law on bike in the lane: 21202. (a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under any of the following situations: (1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction. (2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway. (3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section 21656. For purposes of this section, a "substandard width lane" is a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane. (4) When approaching a place where a right turn is authorized. (b) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway of a highway, which highway carries traffic in one direction only and has two or more marked traffic lanes, may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of that roadway as practicable.
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| 2014-09-09 3:01 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
Expert 1224 Is this Heaven? No, it's Iowa. | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? I was part of a group that wanted to pass a 6 foot law when passing bicycles in Iowa. We were able to get a 3 foot law through. That being said, (and this is not my original material) I don't want "But I had the Right of Way" printed on my headstone.
I watch out for cars on bikes and running all the time. I generally assume the driver is texting and not paying attention to me. It's always safer that way.
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| 2014-09-09 3:01 PM in reply to: chayes |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? Originally posted by chayes We've had this law in PA for a year or so, and I think it's a good idea. I think there's always a subset of cyclists (and human beings in general) who are idiots, but I don't think any cyclist who used to be conscientious is saying "Well, now I'll ride in the middle of the highway, and cars have to give me 3 feet when they pass!" It's been a good reminder to me when I'm driving, but the big problem is educating all drivers about it. I don't think anyone who's not a serious cyclist knows about it. I'd like to get a bumper sticker advertising it, if one were readily available. there are plenty of "4 feet" yellow car stickers in bike shops around town, atleast there were. Bike Pittsburgh probably has a bunch too |
| 2014-09-10 7:45 AM in reply to: punkster |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? Well I had an interesting run in this morning, speaking of drivers. I was riding on a divided road, two lanes in each direction with a median. I hit the end of my loop and went to turn around. I went into the median and stopped as there were oncoming cars. There was also a big pickup truck at a stop sign across from me making a right turn the same direction I was going. So technically, when the road cleared, I had the right of way since I was on the roadway and he was at a traffic control device (bikes are legally vehicles in Florida). Now, as siouxcityhawk said, I don't want "but I had the right of way" written on my tomb stone so when traffic cleared I started to coast and got my pedal clipped while I waited to see what he was going to do. Well, what he did was saw me coasting and thought I was going to go in front of him and he was not going to have that. There was a huge ROOOOOAAAR as he floored his over sized pickup truck onto the road...to hell if he was going to let some bicycle get in front of him. Well...that's where karma jumped in, you see, the road was wet and anyone that has ever driven rear wheel drive knows, if you floor your vehicle while turning onto a slick surface...well....you should work at Dunkin', cause you're about to make doughnuts. And he did. His truck spun around twice before flying into the median. He somehow avoided the trees and oncoming traffic before coming to a stop in the grass. Realize, that once I saw him go for it, I stopped and I'm just standing there in the median the whole time watching this. So I hop back on my bike, cross the road and start to get up to where he stopped. I'm about to yell, "are you ok?" when out his unrolled window I hear, "YOU STUPID SON OF $(%*$%, MOTHER $(%U*($)"....well you get the idea. So apparently, this is all my fault. So I just keep going and he pulls ahead of me into a parking lot to yell some more. I just sort of shake my head and keep riding. He then buzzes pass me full speed and lays on his horn. So I cut my ride short and doubled up on my run to get off the road before he came around again. So I have the right of way, but I still yield it. He's a big macho man and tries to show off and ends up making himself look like an idiot and endangers everyone around him.....and it's my fault. |
| 2014-09-10 6:11 PM in reply to: punkster |
Extreme Veteran 909 Westchester, NY | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? Here in Westchester county NY we have a 3 ft rule. It's called Merrill's law. It was enacted after a cyclist was hit by a bus. But of course most motorists don't know this is the law. |
| 2014-09-10 6:28 PM in reply to: 0 |
Champion 6503 NOVA - Ironic for an Endurance Athlete | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? It only works if: 1) Drivers know about it. 2) Drivers consider cyclists to be human 3) Police enforce it. Here in VA, a drivers ed car's mirror came within about 8" of my handlebars at a red light. I yelled "4 FEET" at the instructor and he said, "What do you mean?" I then explained the law to the instructor. Edited by pga_mike 2014-09-10 6:31 PM |
| 2014-09-10 10:34 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? Here's my thoughts on a "3 foot rule"......try to stay 6 feet away. If you truly knew how many people were driving distracted or impaired you'd never get on the road again on a bicycle unless you had a death wish. While I agree that we can't live our lives that way, don't anyone try to tell me that a new traffic law is going to make a single bit of difference in the way drivers feel about cyclists or the number of accidents involving motor vehicles and cyclists. It makes NO difference. Watch your arse when you ride on the road......your own actions/cautions are the only safety net you have. Edited by Left Brain 2014-09-10 10:48 PM |
| 2014-09-11 6:53 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Champion 14571 the alamo city, Texas | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? Originally posted by Left Brain
If you truly knew how many people were driving distracted or impaired you'd never get on the road again on a bicycle unless you had a death wish. I can make an educated guess based on what I observe. I look forward to driverless cars. Hopefully they can look for, and stay away from, bicycles. |
| 2014-09-11 7:13 AM in reply to: ChrisM |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? We've had a 1m for three or four years now and while it is certainly not perfect, it has made a difference. I have no idea of the penalties or how many tickets have been given but there was a pretty solid education campaign that went along with the new law and with the education there appears to be an increase in respect between drivers and cyclists. That is not to say things are perfect and of course it only takes one driver but as a year round bike commuter, I notice fewer drivers trying to squeeze by than before. While we have many cyclists on the road, especially in the summer months, there are very few collisions (I think two fatalities in the city in the last seven years and only a handful of cyclists hit each year). I've also been working on my own education campaign:  Shane |
| 2014-09-11 7:18 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Champion 14571 the alamo city, Texas | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? Originally posted by gsmacleod We've had a 1m for three or four years now and while it is certainly not perfect, it has made a difference. I have no idea of the penalties or how many tickets have been given but there was a pretty solid education campaign that went along with the new law and with the education there appears to be an increase in respect between drivers and cyclists. That is not to say things are perfect and of course it only takes one driver but as a year round bike commuter, I notice fewer drivers trying to squeeze by than before. While we have many cyclists on the road, especially in the summer months, there are very few collisions (I think two fatalities in the city in the last seven years and only a handful of cyclists hit each year). I've also been working on my own education campaign: Shane Lack of education is a huge problem. VA passed a 3' passing law this summer and I only knew the date it went into effect because of my LBS's facebook page, and assorted FB pages of people I ride with and local riding groups. You really think this is reaching the people that need to know it? Did not see a single TV ad, billboard, radio ad, nothing. Small blurbs in the newspapers. So nothing has really changed.
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| 2014-09-11 2:22 PM in reply to: 0 |
Veteran 629 Grapevine, TX | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? I"m sure we instinctively know this as we're probably all mototorists, but due to relative speeds (meaning, vehicles usually go at least 10 or 20 mph faster than bicycles), it doesn't matter what speed we're going, to a motorist we are seen as unmoving objects. Most motorists know exactly how tight they can fit their car through an opening, so they don't see being within 3 feet of a cyclist as a big deal, and never will. Frankly those motorists don't scare me. Neither do the ones that roar their engines passing you, or the ones that honk. These motorists, no matter how irate, know exactly where you are and as long as you don't give them the birdie, probably will be gone in 3 seconds. Motorists that scare me, for which no law seems to work, are those that are driving drunk, or driving while texting which for our purposes is pretty much the same thing, or those that think the shoulder is a passing lane, or those that feel that they can pass you and immediately turn right (rather than wait an extra millisecond and turn behind you) and so on. They are usually quiet, come upon you suddenly, and plow you down. 3 feet or no 3 feet. Edited by FranzZemen 2014-09-11 2:23 PM |
| 2014-09-11 2:33 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? Originally posted by gsmacleod We've had a 1m for three or four years now and while it is certainly not perfect, it has made a difference. I have no idea of the penalties or how many tickets have been given but there was a pretty solid education campaign that went along with the new law and with the education there appears to be an increase in respect between drivers and cyclists. That is not to say things are perfect and of course it only takes one driver but as a year round bike commuter, I notice fewer drivers trying to squeeze by than before. While we have many cyclists on the road, especially in the summer months, there are very few collisions (I think two fatalities in the city in the last seven years and only a handful of cyclists hit each year). I've also been working on my own education campaign: Shane From what I could see when I was in Edmonton a few weeks ago, and from a couple other trips I've taken up your way, people are much more civil to each other then they are here in the states. And......ad campaign for a new law? Here? No way. |
| 2014-09-12 11:15 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
| 160 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? @left brain and gsmcleod I am simplifying (maybe overly) here but Edmonton is completely west of Canada (Alberta) and relies mostly on petroleum while Nova Scotia completely east and relies mostly on sea resources and tourism. One country but two competly different people with different concerns and who vote very differently. With that said, I am surprised you have issues in Nova Scotia when biking. When I last visited the province, I was under the impression the citizens of this province were extremely polite and courteous. Just looking sideways while walking on the sidewalk was sufficient to have cars stop to let you pass even away from intersections. That was in Halifax which is one of the biggest city of Nova Scotia. As a tourist, I personally love Nova Scotia both for its scenery and its people. If there are issues with bike even in Nova Scotia, I can't help but be believe the bike community must be in trouble everywhere. For the 3 feet, In Quebec, they are contemplating doing a distance of 1m (roughly 3 foot) under 50km/h and 1.5m in roads over 50km/h. When out of the city, 3 feet seems like an absolute minimum. p.s. How do you include previous posts when replying? |
| 2014-09-12 1:41 PM in reply to: punkster |
Champion 5345 Carlsbad, California | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? Where I live I am convinced this rule is going to injure and kill more cyclists, not less. |
| 2014-09-23 8:00 PM in reply to: WaterDog66 |
Champion 6503 NOVA - Ironic for an Endurance Athlete | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? |
| 2014-09-23 8:51 PM in reply to: punkster |
Master 3127 Sunny Southern Cal | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? I haven't noticed a difference since the law took effect. I think the only drivers it would influence are not the ones that you would like to influence. There are still, and always will be, inconsiderate, selfish *#%@s who will buzz within inches of you. Really, I feel that government needs to go the other way with traffic signs and laws. I would like to see bicycle lanes repainted with the bicycle symbol and a cell phone symbol, so that any driver who needs to dive into that narrow strip of road in order to get that urgent text composed will feel welcome to do so. I would also like to see all of the 'No stopping any time' signs changed to 'No stopping any time *unless texting*.' |
| 2014-09-23 9:17 PM in reply to: SevenZulu |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Thoughts on California's new 3 foot passing law? Originally posted by SevenZulu I haven't noticed a difference since the law took effect. I think the only drivers it would influence are not the ones that you would like to influence. There are still, and always will be, inconsiderate, selfish *#%@s who will buzz within inches of you. Really, I feel that government needs to go the other way with traffic signs and laws. I would like to see bicycle lanes repainted with the bicycle symbol and a cell phone symbol, so that any driver who needs to dive into that narrow strip of road in order to get that urgent text composed will feel welcome to do so. I would also like to see all of the 'No stopping any time' signs changed to 'No stopping any time *unless texting*.' Never going to happen. Stopped motorists get hit by other motorists......don't ask me why it happens, but it does. A stopped vehicle is like a magnet for a moving vehicle. I saw a study or paper on it once upon a time.....it has something to do with going where your eyes go...and your eyes go to the stopped vehicle. If you need to text, get off the roadway.....or become a casualty yourself. |
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