Is it just me?
-
No new posts
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller | Reply |
|
2014-09-15 12:08 PM |
Expert 1051 Bradenton, Florida | Subject: Is it just me? Anyone else enjoy the full contact swim at the beginning of the race? There are plenty of threads about fear and swimming, kayakers and swimming, pool vs. OWS, to flip turn or not, but there has to be a few others that actually look forward to the washing machine, full contact, survival of the fittest, sprint to the first buoy. Or is it just me? Edited by cwpeters 2014-09-15 12:14 PM |
|
2014-09-15 12:28 PM in reply to: cwpeters |
239 | Subject: RE: Is it just me? My first couple tri's were TT starts. I was actually disappointed as I wanted to try the mass start. I'm not sure if I actually look forward to it now that I've done a few, but I definitely don't mind it. |
2014-09-15 12:28 PM in reply to: cwpeters |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Is it just me? I don't liket much and try to avoid it as I don't swim well....BUT.....the kids I'm around who swim at the Jr. level just love it. At AG nationals this year my kid said that when his AG lined up he was looking around and quite a few of them knew each other from the Jr. Elite series, etc. He said there was quite a bit of jockeying for position and that every time he caught one of those kid's eyes they shared a big smile with each other, knowing what was coming. Some of the races he does are wars on the swim, and those kids are truly battle tested. ......and I've watched him and his sister practice for hours in our small backyard pool learning to roll over other swimmers, etc. You are not alone. |
2014-09-15 12:30 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Is it just me? |
2014-09-15 12:34 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Pro 5761 Bartlett, TN | Subject: RE: Is it just me? I would not say I love it, but I also do not fear it. Bumping in the water doesn't bother me, and I am lucky enough to have never been kicked hard or hit across the face yet. As long as it is done in competition and not as a deliberate act, then I am good. |
2014-09-15 12:46 PM in reply to: cwpeters |
701 | Subject: RE: Is it just me? I try to avoid it. This weekend was my first mass start, and it was less violent than the age group, 6 at a time, every 10 seconds or whatever it was in Des Moines for the Hyvee. It was a smaller race, and I intentionally hung back and avoided the rush. Here's where my question comes in. Etiquette-wise. For sure, if someone tags me from behind, I do my best to get out of the way ASAP and move towards the 'outside'. I tend to kind of do the same when I do the tagging. I generally use that as a good time to take a good sighting look, maybe take a few deep breaths (as I don't seem to develop a good breathing rhythm until the last .25 of any longer swim). Should I just try to alter course a tad and keep crashing if I catch someone from behind? It's sort of a guess, though at the old "Crazy Ivan" as to which way they might (or might not) try to alter course. In these last two races, I did find that it's a bit taxing to get momentum back after more or less coming to a near dead stop. I gotta find a way to stop doing that. It could be one of the reasons that it's taking me so long to find some of the consistency as the pack starts to thin out towards the end. Especially when I end up just running up on them again. I've definitely been spoiled in the open water races I've done up through now. |
|
2014-09-15 12:54 PM in reply to: jhaack39 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Is it just me? Originally posted by jhaack39 I try to avoid it. This weekend was my first mass start, and it was less violent than the age group, 6 at a time, every 10 seconds or whatever it was in Des Moines for the Hyvee. It was a smaller race, and I intentionally hung back and avoided the rush. Here's where my question comes in. Etiquette-wise. For sure, if someone tags me from behind, I do my best to get out of the way ASAP and move towards the 'outside'. I tend to kind of do the same when I do the tagging. I generally use that as a good time to take a good sighting look, maybe take a few deep breaths (as I don't seem to develop a good breathing rhythm until the last .25 of any longer swim). Should I just try to alter course a tad and keep crashing if I catch someone from behind? It's sort of a guess, though at the old "Crazy Ivan" as to which way they might (or might not) try to alter course. In these last two races, I did find that it's a bit taxing to get momentum back after more or less coming to a near dead stop. I gotta find a way to stop doing that. It could be one of the reasons that it's taking me so long to find some of the consistency as the pack starts to thin out towards the end. Especially when I end up just running up on them again. I've definitely been spoiled in the open water races I've done up through now. Swim! It's not a pool swimming laps....in fact, I've never heard of someone thinking they can tap the foot in front of them, in an open water swim race, and that person will give way. If someone wants to pass you they can swim faster, or over you, or whatever....it's a race. You are under no obligtation, or etiquette, to stop swimming so they can pass. |
2014-09-15 1:06 PM in reply to: jhaack39 |
Expert 3126 Boise, ID | Subject: RE: Is it just me? Originally posted by jhaack39 I try to avoid it. This weekend was my first mass start, and it was less violent than the age group, 6 at a time, every 10 seconds or whatever it was in Des Moines for the Hyvee. It was a smaller race, and I intentionally hung back and avoided the rush. Here's where my question comes in. Etiquette-wise. For sure, if someone tags me from behind, I do my best to get out of the way ASAP and move towards the 'outside'. I tend to kind of do the same when I do the tagging. I generally use that as a good time to take a good sighting look, maybe take a few deep breaths (as I don't seem to develop a good breathing rhythm until the last .25 of any longer swim). Should I just try to alter course a tad and keep crashing if I catch someone from behind? It's sort of a guess, though at the old "Crazy Ivan" as to which way they might (or might not) try to alter course. In these last two races, I did find that it's a bit taxing to get momentum back after more or less coming to a near dead stop. I gotta find a way to stop doing that. It could be one of the reasons that it's taking me so long to find some of the consistency as the pack starts to thin out towards the end. Especially when I end up just running up on them again. I've definitely been spoiled in the open water races I've done up through now. Etiquette varies depending on your position in the race. If you are a FOP swimmer there aren't much for rules. As LB said, it is a race, swim as fast as you can as hard as you can and expect to get knocked around and do some knocking back. For those of us in the MOP or BOP on the swim it is more of getting it done in a decent time or just surviving. There are still no "rules" but the following works well for me. If I touch feet in front of my that is my que to alter course and go around them. I will go to the side a bit and pass them. Once I am front of them I will go easy on the kicking for a bit until there is some space. If I feel someone brush my feet with their hands I will reduce my kick or stop kicking to give them a chance to go to the side before they get kicked in the face. I do not alter course, if they want to go around me it is up to them to get it done. I do stop the kicking or slow it down just as a courtesy as I know I don't like getting kicked in the face, but I don't slow down or change course to "get out of the way". Worked well for me and the people around me in my IM swim and many seemed to do the same. The one thing that does pi$$ me off in OWS is when some d-bag decides to breast stroke. Some "large" individual in my IM swim thought it would be cool to breast stroke/frog kick as he couldn't hack it. Caught my square in the chest as I come up beside him, never wanted to drown someone so much in my life. As I went by he kicked 3-4 other people as well. Total d1ck move. |
2014-09-15 1:10 PM in reply to: cwpeters |
34 | Subject: RE: Is it just me? To the OP, I'm with you, I love it!!! I grew up swimming, and lifeguarded at the beach, so my comfort level is a little different. I just did a sprint this weekend and was so amped up at the start. Such a rush sprinting into the water, diving through the surf and being the first around the buoy!!! |
2014-09-15 1:22 PM in reply to: CzechYourHead |
New user 1351 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: Is it just me? I kinda like it too, but then again I haven't come out of the water with a broken jaw like some people have. |
2014-09-15 1:31 PM in reply to: Aarondb4 |
Member 2689 Denver, CO | Subject: RE: Is it just me? Originally posted by Aarondb4 Etiquette varies depending on your position in the race. If you are a FOP swimmer there aren't much for rules. As LB said, it is a race, swim as fast as you can as hard as you can and expect to get knocked around and do some knocking back. For those of us in the MOP or BOP on the swim it is more of getting it done in a decent time or just surviving. There are still no "rules" but the following works well for me. If I touch feet in front of my that is my que to alter course and go around them. I will go to the side a bit and pass them. Once I am front of them I will go easy on the kicking for a bit until there is some space. If I feel someone brush my feet with their hands I will reduce my kick or stop kicking to give them a chance to go to the side before they get kicked in the face. I do not alter course, if they want to go around me it is up to them to get it done. I do stop the kicking or slow it down just as a courtesy as I know I don't like getting kicked in the face, but I don't slow down or change course to "get out of the way". Worked well for me and the people around me in my IM swim and many seemed to do the same. The one thing that does pi$$ me off in OWS is when some d-bag decides to breast stroke. Some "large" individual in my IM swim thought it would be cool to breast stroke/frog kick as he couldn't hack it. Caught my square in the chest as I come up beside him, never wanted to drown someone so much in my life. As I went by he kicked 3-4 other people as well. Total d1ck move. Sometimes breast stroke the only stroke people know how to do. I give them credit for even tackling a tri when they can't swim freestyle. Now, if they were FOP, that might be one thing, but as you said, for MOP/BOP folks, it's mostly just a matter of finishing. If they have to breast stroke to do it, then so be it. It's not like they're doing it just to intentionally kick people. |
|
2014-09-15 1:33 PM in reply to: laffinrock |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Is it just me? Originally posted by laffinrock Originally posted by Aarondb4 Etiquette varies depending on your position in the race. If you are a FOP swimmer there aren't much for rules. As LB said, it is a race, swim as fast as you can as hard as you can and expect to get knocked around and do some knocking back. For those of us in the MOP or BOP on the swim it is more of getting it done in a decent time or just surviving. There are still no "rules" but the following works well for me. If I touch feet in front of my that is my que to alter course and go around them. I will go to the side a bit and pass them. Once I am front of them I will go easy on the kicking for a bit until there is some space. If I feel someone brush my feet with their hands I will reduce my kick or stop kicking to give them a chance to go to the side before they get kicked in the face. I do not alter course, if they want to go around me it is up to them to get it done. I do stop the kicking or slow it down just as a courtesy as I know I don't like getting kicked in the face, but I don't slow down or change course to "get out of the way". Worked well for me and the people around me in my IM swim and many seemed to do the same. The one thing that does pi$$ me off in OWS is when some d-bag decides to breast stroke. Some "large" individual in my IM swim thought it would be cool to breast stroke/frog kick as he couldn't hack it. Caught my square in the chest as I come up beside him, never wanted to drown someone so much in my life. As I went by he kicked 3-4 other people as well. Total d1ck move. Sometimes breast stroke the only stroke people know how to do. I give them credit for even tackling a tri when they can't swim freestyle. Now, if they were FOP, that might be one thing, but as you said, for MOP/BOP folks, it's mostly just a matter of finishing. If they have to breast stroke to do it, then so be it. It's not like they're doing it just to intentionally kick people. Or maybe they could properly prepare for the sport they are attempting rather than putting the safety of others at risk? |
2014-09-15 1:45 PM in reply to: cwpeters |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Is it just me? |
2014-09-15 1:47 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
754 | Subject: RE: Is it just me? I don't like the contact because I swim my best when I can get into a rhythm, and bumping interferes with that. It hasn't occurred to me that I should get out of the way if someone bumps me from behind. When I run into someone's feet, I assume that it is my responsibility to turn. |
2014-09-15 1:47 PM in reply to: cwpeters |
98 , Idaho | Subject: RE: Is it just me? I'm sure once I get punched in the face and a broke nose or kicked in the ribs so something cracks, I'll change my opinion, but for now I agree with the OP. It's like in Football, where you can't wait to get tackled the first time. All the jitters are out, it's real, you've been punched once...you're alive...and ready to go again. Contact at the beginning of the swim just gets the competitive juices going. Part of the fun of triathlon is you're constantly rubbing/bumping/almost crashing into each other during the sbr portions and also transition. It's part of the race, so I embrace it. |
2014-09-15 1:58 PM in reply to: cwpeters |
1055 | Subject: RE: Is it just me? I'm by no means a fish, but I have more trouble with contact going through slower swimmers in the earlier waves than in my own wave. Unless you're in a 100+ person wave, not sure why you would say it's full contact. Sure there is contact, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be so longer as you seed yourself properly at the start. That said, no I don't enjoy it, but it is a part of the race and I probably dish it out just as much as I receive it. |
|
2014-09-15 2:11 PM in reply to: cwpeters |
Extreme Veteran 933 Connecticut | Subject: RE: Is it just me? If I'm in a shorter race where I'm not in the first wave out, I'll stay wide and vigilant as opposed to gunning it, otherwise I invariably get kicked by a breast stroker in the wave ahead as I pass. That hurts bad. An elbow to the head, not so much, as long as it's not malicious, which I've never seen. You might think it's malicious in the moment, but it's not. If you're FOP and you're getting hit, you're not doing a good enough job of jockeying for position. You should be able position yourself in such a way where you're swimming your stroke without getting bonked, even if you or someone in your vicinity goes off course. Another school of thought though, which I've been playing with recently on shorter course - If you can quickly get to the front of the middle and hold it without sprinting, but a stroke or two behind the back of the front. There is NO jockeying there - it's clear water ahead for a body length and it sorts out from side to side just fine. I prefer settling in, what can I say. Then you uncork a sprint in the middle third and catch up as the front pack is getting ready for their kick. I get to pick a pair of feet and draft a good choice on the kick in. Bingo, you get a FOP finish without a scrum. I've only tried it twice, but it worked. A variation for longer distances, still start out slower and turn it on a bit in the middle, you still catch the front as they flag down a bit. The absolute front fish are long gone by then, and mentally some FOPers check out a bit once they realize that, perfect time to slide in among them. |
2014-09-15 2:20 PM in reply to: fisherman76 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Is it just me? Originally posted by fisherman76 If I'm in a shorter race where I'm not in the first wave out, I'll stay wide and vigilant as opposed to gunning it, otherwise I invariably get kicked by a breast stroker in the wave ahead as I pass. That hurts bad. An elbow to the head, not so much, as long as it's not malicious, which I've never seen. You might think it's malicious in the moment, but it's not. If you're FOP and you're getting hit, you're not doing a good enough job of jockeying for position. You should be able position yourself in such a way where you're swimming your stroke without getting bonked, even if you or someone in your vicinity goes off course. Another school of thought though, which I've been playing with recently on shorter course - If you can quickly get to the front of the middle and hold it without sprinting, but a stroke or two behind the back of the front. There is NO jockeying there - it's clear water ahead for a body length and it sorts out from side to side just fine. I prefer settling in, what can I say. Then you uncork a sprint in the middle third and catch up as the front pack is getting ready for their kick. I get to pick a pair of feet and draft a good choice on the kick in. Bingo, you get a FOP finish without a scrum. I've only tried it twice, but it worked. A variation for longer distances, still start out slower and turn it on a bit in the middle, you still catch the front as they flag down a bit. The absolute front fish are long gone by then, and mentally some FOPers check out a bit once they realize that, perfect time to slide in among them. Sometimes the faster you get the worse it is. At some of the races we go to 50% of the racers can swim a 5:00 500......it's ALWAYS brutal at the first buoy. A few might make it through clean, but the rest are in for a fight. Even at AG nationals 2 years ago they necked the swim down in both directions under a bridge. It gave you maybe 15 yards to get through in both directtions, with 3 or 4 swim waves overlapping......it was a MESS for the folks who don't like to deal with contact. The bottom line, even as much as I don't enjoy the contact but understand it's part of the deal, is that you should be well prepared for contact in any open water triathlon swim. if you aren't, do pool swim races until you are. That may include, as dmiller said, sitting out until you can freestlye the length of your race. |
2014-09-15 2:22 PM in reply to: jhaack39 |
New user 246 madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Is it just me? Originally posted by jhaack39 I try to avoid it. This weekend was my first mass start, and it was less violent than the age group, 6 at a time, every 10 seconds or whatever it was in Des Moines for the Hyvee. It was a smaller race, and I intentionally hung back and avoided the rush. Here's where my question comes in. Etiquette-wise. For sure, if someone tags me from behind, I do my best to get out of the way ASAP and move towards the 'outside'. I tend to kind of do the same when I do the tagging. I generally use that as a good time to take a good sighting look, maybe take a few deep breaths (as I don't seem to develop a good breathing rhythm until the last .25 of any longer swim). Should I just try to alter course a tad and keep crashing if I catch someone from behind? It's sort of a guess, though at the old "Crazy Ivan" as to which way they might (or might not) try to alter course. In these last two races, I did find that it's a bit taxing to get momentum back after more or less coming to a near dead stop. I gotta find a way to stop doing that. It could be one of the reasons that it's taking me so long to find some of the consistency as the pack starts to thin out towards the end. Especially when I end up just running up on them again. I've definitely been spoiled in the open water races I've done up through now. I was in this same race, likely very close to each other. That one was a bad one as the water was the darkest I've ever been in, and I've swum in some dirty water. All of the rain they had over the previous week made the water in DM very muddy so you couldn't see your elbow when it was extended in front of you. That, in turn, translated to a LOT of contact. Simply because you couldn't see anyone until you were right on top of them. I was side-by-side with a fellow and we were just very evenly matched speed-wise. Problem being that we just kept hitting each other. I had, and I'm sure he had, bruises on my upper arms from his elbows. When we got out of the water we both offered a quick "sorry for the contact", shook hands and went about our way. I agree with the others that say it's not your job to yield or get out of anyone's way. If they are overtaking you, they need to find a way to do it. Unfortunately, sometimes that means they are going right over the top of you. So if you are yielding for your own piece of mind, that's one thing, but you shouldn't need to move for anyone else. |
2014-09-15 2:39 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 6520 Bellingham, WA | Subject: RE: Is it just me? I don't mind it at all anymore. Mainly because I have the confidence in the water to handle the situation. I think I've also developed an extra gear so I can accelerate to take advantage of an opportunity or avoid trouble and then fall back into my race pace. I to strongly dislike the threat of being kicked by a breaststroker. When visibility is limited it can be hard to see to avoid and getting kicked in the face is a serious hazard. If I feel a tap on my foot, I don't intepret it as a signal to let someone through. More times than not it's someone drafting off me and that's fine unless it's every other stroke they are hitting me and than I'll try to lose them. Edited by popsracer 2014-09-15 2:41 PM |
2014-09-15 4:01 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Extreme Veteran 933 Connecticut | Subject: RE: Is it just me? Originally posted by Left Brain Sometimes the faster you get the worse it is. At some of the races we go to 50% of the racers can swim a 5:00 500......it's ALWAYS brutal at the first buoy. A few might make it through clean, but the rest are in for a fight. Even at AG nationals 2 years ago they necked the swim down in both directions under a bridge. It gave you maybe 15 yards to get through in both directtions, with 3 or 4 swim waves overlapping......it was a MESS for the folks who don't like to deal with contact. The bottom line, even as much as I don't enjoy the contact but understand it's part of the deal, is that you should be well prepared for contact in any open water triathlon swim. if you aren't, do pool swim races until you are. That may include, as dmiller said, sitting out until you can freestlye the length of your race. Agreed, and the shorter the distance, the worse still. It's starting to become less and less fun on shorter distances, the whole race is getting decided in the first 10 minutes. I like more tactic |
|
2014-09-15 6:05 PM in reply to: cwpeters |
Pro 5361 | Subject: RE: Is it just me? I always seize the opportunity to re-post this classic swim start video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3S0wu4Zbfk
|
2014-09-15 7:41 PM in reply to: Aarondb4 |
New user 80 Howell, Michigan | Subject: RE: Is it just me? ...The one thing that does pi$$ me off in OWS is when some d-bag decides to breast stroke. Some "large" individual in my IM swim thought it would be cool to breast stroke/frog kick as he couldn't hack it. Caught my square in the chest as I come up beside him, never wanted to drown someone so much in my life. As I went by he kicked 3-4 other people as well. Total d1ck move... I was in a similar situation about a month ago and got kicked in the jaw by a breast stroker. Broke a tooth. |
2014-09-15 7:41 PM in reply to: Aarondb4 |
New user 80 Howell, Michigan | Subject: RE: Is it just me? ...The one thing that does pi$$ me off in OWS is when some d-bag decides to breast stroke. Some "large" individual in my IM swim thought it would be cool to breast stroke/frog kick as he couldn't hack it. Caught my square in the chest as I come up beside him, never wanted to drown someone so much in my life. As I went by he kicked 3-4 other people as well. Total d1ck move... I was in a similar situation about a month ago and got kicked in the jaw by a breast stroker. Broke a tooth. |
2014-09-15 8:47 PM in reply to: 0 |
471 | Subject: RE: Is it just me? I play rugby so the physicality of it doesn't bother me and I'd be spewing if they did anything to stop the mass start, but I prefer to start my swim in a bit of space, get into a rhythm, then move back into the pack to draft. What does irritate me is that a lot of people go out too fast and are forced to slow down, forcing me to go out harder than I want to to make sure I don't get caught up behind them when they slow. Edited by zedzded 2014-09-15 9:09 PM |
|
|