Mileage accuracy on trainer
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2014-11-01 9:11 PM |
Member 560 Utah | Subject: Mileage accuracy on trainer I have put my bike on the trainer for the fall/winter and the mileage seems to be way off, really low for what it would be on the road. I use a Garmin 310xt and the Garmin Gsc 10 sped /cadence sensor. I know for my heart rate and effort level, the speed would normally be higher as well as the mileage. I don't really care, but it does bug me, and my training plan for my upcoming IM is mainly mileage based for the bike training, and most of the bike miles will be on my trainer. Any ideas on how to make it more accurate or calibrate better? On the road the 310xt is dead on, but since adding this speed/cadence thing, it seems way off. Thanks in advance! |
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2014-11-01 10:17 PM in reply to: 0 |
Member 587 | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer Did you choose the correct settings, specifically tire circumference when syncing up your garmin w/ the speed/cadence? Edited by 5stones 2014-11-01 10:19 PM |
2014-11-01 10:24 PM in reply to: KatieLimb |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer Originally posted by KatieLimb I have put my bike on the trainer for the fall/winter and the mileage seems to be way off, really low for what it would be on the road. I use a Garmin 310xt and the Garmin Gsc 10 sped /cadence sensor. I know for my heart rate and effort level, the speed would normally be higher as well as the mileage. I don't really care, but it does bug me, and my training plan for my upcoming IM is mainly mileage based for the bike training, and most of the bike miles will be on my trainer. Any ideas on how to make it more accurate or calibrate better? On the road the 310xt is dead on, but since adding this speed/cadence thing, it seems way off. Thanks in advance! This is one of the many reasons why time is better the distance. Find out what you ride MPH usually and just turn your rides into timed rides. I have never heard of someone riding on distance inside when they are stationary. Whatever you do make sure you have your tires at the same PSI and tension on the trainer the same, otherwise your rides will differ each time. |
2014-11-01 10:50 PM in reply to: 0 |
643 | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer I answered this before a few weeks ago. Basically distance on a training means absolutely nothing! *Warning:* Made up weights, power, and speed! 200 pound guy takes 200 watts to stay at 20 mph 150 pound woman takes 150 watts to stay at 20mph Put those two on a trainer and tell them to side at Z2 (lets say 160watts and 120 watts). Well on the road, Z2 for the guy and girl would be probably the same speed but on the trainer...nope 40 watt difference will show that the guy is going "faster". In conclusion, ignore speed/distance on the trainer My speed sensor battery died and I never replaced it since my power meter transmits cadence as well. Sort of sucks seeing 0miles but I'm way more interested in TSS and what intervals I did. Edited by Blastman 2014-11-01 10:52 PM |
2014-11-01 11:00 PM in reply to: KatieLimb |
172 Kenmore, Washington | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer Mileage on a trainer/spin machine/exercise bike is meaningless. If you need a metric then look at your heart rate. |
2014-11-01 11:07 PM in reply to: pnwdan |
New user 104 | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer Heart rate or convert it to power. You should be able to find speed vs power calibration curve for your trainer. You can approximate power for your bike on the road. There are many power curves you can find for that too. |
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2014-11-02 8:00 AM in reply to: KatieLimb |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer As others have stated... pay zero attention to distance and speed on the trainer. Power Heart Rate RPE |
2014-11-02 8:46 AM in reply to: KatieLimb |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer Originally posted by KatieLimb I have put my bike on the trainer for the fall/winter and the mileage seems to be way off, really low for what it would be on the road. I use a Garmin 310xt and the Garmin Gsc 10 sped /cadence sensor. I know for my heart rate and effort level, the speed would normally be higher as well as the mileage. I don't really care, but it does bug me, and my training plan for my upcoming IM is mainly mileage based for the bike training, and most of the bike miles will be on my trainer. Any ideas on how to make it more accurate or calibrate better? On the road the 310xt is dead on, but since adding this speed/cadence thing, it seems way off. Thanks in advance! You could probably play with the wheel size and trick it into more mph |
2014-11-02 10:16 AM in reply to: marcag |
Master 3888 Overland Park, KS | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer If you plan calls for say 50 miles, look back at your logs for outdoor riding and make sure you're on the trainer for at least that long. Time and effort is more important than just distance. Also check settings etc. |
2014-11-02 10:25 AM in reply to: KatieLimb |
1660 | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer I greatly disagree with ignoring speed/distance on the trainer.
If you are using a KK or Fluid2, the speed and distance on the trainer are very reliable metrics of how hard you are working (speed) as well as distance (training volume), and on those two trainers, is very reproducible.
The issues brought up above are more for comparing your trainer speed/miles to other people metrics or outdoor miles, which isn't a great comparison for the reasons above.
However, for the most crucial part of training, which is comparing YOUR results to YOURSELF over time, so you can see if you're improving and how much you're improving, tracking your speed/distance on the trainer is extremely helpful and very precise for good fluid trainers like KK or Fluid2. |
2014-11-02 1:57 PM in reply to: yazmaster |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer Originally posted by yazmaster I greatly disagree with ignoring speed/distance on the trainer.
Remind us again how far and fast you travel on the trainer. |
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2014-11-02 3:10 PM in reply to: yazmaster |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer Originally posted by yazmaster I greatly disagree with ignoring speed/distance on the trainer.
If you are using a KK or Fluid2, the speed and distance on the trainer are very reliable metrics of how hard you are working (speed) as well as distance (training volume), and on those two trainers, is very reproducible.
The issues brought up above are more for comparing your trainer speed/miles to other people metrics or outdoor miles, which isn't a great comparison for the reasons above.
However, for the most crucial part of training, which is comparing YOUR results to YOURSELF over time, so you can see if you're improving and how much you're improving, tracking your speed/distance on the trainer is extremely helpful and very precise for good fluid trainers like KK or Fluid2. Except when you go outside and ride in hilly terrain, or with winds, or with rain, or really any variable outside of the indoor static environment. |
2014-11-02 3:37 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
1660 | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer As said, indoor training numbers are good for comparing to other indoor workouts.
As for comparing bike workouts, the critiques you make could be applied to riding outdoors, different routes, in different temps, terrain, etc., Even a powermeter doesn't account for all the variables (although it does make it a much closer comparison.)
You will get the highest precision in comparing bike fitness progress by comparing your TT efforts on the trainer, and get valuable data about RPE and even HR or power if so inclined for race day. |
2014-11-02 9:18 PM in reply to: yazmaster |
New user 104 | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer Her question was matching the speed on the road vs trainer. The reason it doesn't match is because she is putting on more watts on the trainer vs road for the same speed. No matter how much the fluid trainer claim it's close to road, unless your weight or bike matches the power curve, it's never going to be the same. Some other factors are shifting weight on saddle, cool down, and psychological effect of riding outdoors. |
2014-11-02 9:28 PM in reply to: marcag |
Extreme Veteran 680 Acworth, GA | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by KatieLimb I have put my bike on the trainer for the fall/winter and the mileage seems to be way off, really low for what it would be on the road. I use a Garmin 310xt and the Garmin Gsc 10 sped /cadence sensor. I know for my heart rate and effort level, the speed would normally be higher as well as the mileage. I don't really care, but it does bug me, and my training plan for my upcoming IM is mainly mileage based for the bike training, and most of the bike miles will be on my trainer. Any ideas on how to make it more accurate or calibrate better? On the road the 310xt is dead on, but since adding this speed/cadence thing, it seems way off. Thanks in advance! You could probably play with the wheel size and trick it into more mph This is the simple answer and what I did with mine so that I could get a "relative" distance to compare against for other trainer sessions. I do not have a power meter and not going that route for a while. Example, I determined that my similar HR effort on the road was approx. 18mph and on the trainer, it was measuring about 14mph. Since I am using the "other" sport on my garmin 305 for my trainer rides, I changed the wheel size to be what the watch was set at * 18/14. So now my garmin shows around 18 mph. Is this perfect, no. Is it getting me the info that I want, yes. That is my recommended route for the OP question. |
2014-11-06 11:59 PM in reply to: Mc Q |
New user 72 | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer I ride my trainer a lot. I can ride 30+ mph on the trainer in an hour pushing it. My best bike split on the road is just shy of 19mph. I record mph on the trainer and HR for reference on how I'm comparing to my other trainer rides, but I certainly don't expect to match that outside. I go by time - if a 35 mile ride takes me 2 hours outside, and the plan calls for 35 miles, I'll do 2 hours on the trainer even if it nets me like 50 miles. |
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2014-11-07 3:05 AM in reply to: KatieLimb |
Master 2094 | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer I have a love/hate relationship with my trainer but I really think maintaining speed on the trainer is a lot harder than on the road. You have all the hardware you need to build a virtual powermeter using a free download of Golden Cheetah v3. http://www.goldencheetah.org/ Using the power number will be better than any other metric and will be a good way to follow your progress and control your efforts. As others have said, check your wheel size setting on the Garmin and change it slightly if you really want to alter the distance but in reality it is the time and effort level that is really important. |
2014-11-07 7:38 AM in reply to: Tmanishere |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer Originally posted by Tmanishere Heart rate or convert it to power. Or just use the speed/distance you get inside but don't try to correlate it with outdoors (as was already said). Using 'virtual' power is essentially the same thing as using speed on the trainer. Faster=more power, slower=less. Not sure why people who think virtual power is awesome would tell people to ignore speed, as long as you do the same things in trying to keep resistance and tire pressure equal from ride to ride. More generally, for the OP, mileage based training is only helpful if your terrain/conditions are somewhat similar across all your rides. You could have two VERY different 50 mile rides, for example, with very different training stresses. You wouldn't want to call them equal when thinking about your training. So don't worry about the distance. Focus on time & effort (which you can track with speed on the trainer, if you like). If you are comfortable enough that your riding terrain is relatively similar, then mileage will work well enough. |
2014-11-07 8:58 AM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Member 587 | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer Originally posted by bcagle25 Originally posted by KatieLimb I have put my bike on the trainer for the fall/winter and the mileage seems to be way off, really low for what it would be on the road. I use a Garmin 310xt and the Garmin Gsc 10 sped /cadence sensor. I know for my heart rate and effort level, the speed would normally be higher as well as the mileage. I don't really care, but it does bug me, and my training plan for my upcoming IM is mainly mileage based for the bike training, and most of the bike miles will be on my trainer. Any ideas on how to make it more accurate or calibrate better? On the road the 310xt is dead on, but since adding this speed/cadence thing, it seems way off. Thanks in advance! This is one of the many reasons why time is better the distance. Find out what you ride MPH usually and just turn your rides into timed rides. I have never heard of someone riding on distance inside when they are stationary. Whatever you do make sure you have your tires at the same PSI and tension on the trainer the same, otherwise your rides will differ each time. Question: Does the tension matter? I thought I had read somewhere that the tension does not increase or decrease the resistance. Obviously the tension has to be high enough to allow the wheel to spin the roller without slipping but I thought the resistance of the trainer does not vary according to tension between the tire & roller. |
2014-11-07 9:18 AM in reply to: KatieLimb |
Master 2802 Minnetonka, Minnesota | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer Mileage should be virtually the same as outside mileage, assuming your trainer and wheel contact is good and your 310xt and sensor are working correctly and are properly set to your rear wheel's circumference. Speed and corresponding effort will vary greatly from outside and should not be compared directly to outside except as a point of interest. |
2014-11-07 9:42 AM in reply to: ejshowers |
Master 1946 Memphis, TN | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer Speed means nothing on a trainer and since your distance is based on speed it means nothing as well. If you have power/virtual power or heart rate use that as a basis for measurement and go by time. Different trainers yield different resistance at different speeds based on each trainers power curve. On a computrainer I was pushing the same watts at 28mph where I'm struggling to push the same watts on mine at home at 18mph. Outside you have other factors like wind, hills both up and down and on a trainer it's just different. It will make you better when Spring comes and you can regularly ride outside. |
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2014-11-07 10:01 AM in reply to: 5stones |
Expert 3126 Boise, ID | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer Originally posted by 5stones Originally posted by bcagle25 Question: Does the tension matter? I thought I had read somewhere that the tension does not increase or decrease the resistance. Obviously the tension has to be high enough to allow the wheel to spin the roller without slipping but I thought the resistance of the trainer does not vary according to tension between the tire & roller. Originally posted by KatieLimb I have put my bike on the trainer for the fall/winter and the mileage seems to be way off, really low for what it would be on the road. I use a Garmin 310xt and the Garmin Gsc 10 sped /cadence sensor. I know for my heart rate and effort level, the speed would normally be higher as well as the mileage. I don't really care, but it does bug me, and my training plan for my upcoming IM is mainly mileage based for the bike training, and most of the bike miles will be on my trainer. Any ideas on how to make it more accurate or calibrate better? On the road the 310xt is dead on, but since adding this speed/cadence thing, it seems way off. Thanks in advance! This is one of the many reasons why time is better the distance. Find out what you ride MPH usually and just turn your rides into timed rides. I have never heard of someone riding on distance inside when they are stationary. Whatever you do make sure you have your tires at the same PSI and tension on the trainer the same, otherwise your rides will differ each time.
Yes, tension between the roller and the tire does matter. Can't recall the specific formula but a google search should give you the procedure. Something about spinning it up to a certain speed then timing how long it takes for the wheel to stop spinning on it's own. Based on those figures you can calibrate the tension to be closer to what the road actually is. Most likely depends on brand and type of trainer as well, probably different numbers for different trainers. |
2014-11-07 10:01 AM in reply to: Jtiger |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer Originally posted by Jtiger Speed means nothing on a trainer and since your distance is based on speed it means nothing as well. If you have power/virtual power or heart rate use that as a basis for measurement and go by time. Different trainers yield different resistance at different speeds based on each trainers power curve. On a computrainer I was pushing the same watts at 28mph where I'm struggling to push the same watts on mine at home at 18mph. Outside you have other factors like wind, hills both up and down and on a trainer it's just different. It will make you better when Spring comes and you can regularly ride outside. Virtual Power = function(Speed) If Virtual Power "means something", then so does speed. And, therefore, so does distance. Just understand what it means. And what it doesn't. |
2014-11-07 10:33 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 2261 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer Originally posted by JohnnyKay Originally posted by Jtiger Speed means nothing on a trainer and since your distance is based on speed it means nothing as well. If you have power/virtual power or heart rate use that as a basis for measurement and go by time. Different trainers yield different resistance at different speeds based on each trainers power curve. On a computrainer I was pushing the same watts at 28mph where I'm struggling to push the same watts on mine at home at 18mph. Outside you have other factors like wind, hills both up and down and on a trainer it's just different. It will make you better when Spring comes and you can regularly ride outside. Virtual Power = function(Speed) If Virtual Power "means something", then so does speed. And, therefore, so does distance. Just understand what it means. And what it doesn't. What you said earlier about comparing speed between trainer rides is correct, and in that reason virtual power is useful, as it gives a more precise measurement. How much of an improvement is a 1mph increase in speed on the trainer? What pace would create a Zone 2 effort? Pure speed doesn't quantify these as well as mapping to a power curve of a trainer to calculate a virtual power. You've posted why distance isn't important, so I'm not sure why you made the bolded statement. Edited by msteiner 2014-11-07 10:35 AM |
2014-11-07 10:56 AM in reply to: msteiner |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Mileage accuracy on trainer Originally posted by msteiner Originally posted by JohnnyKay Originally posted by Jtiger Speed means nothing on a trainer and since your distance is based on speed it means nothing as well. If you have power/virtual power or heart rate use that as a basis for measurement and go by time. Different trainers yield different resistance at different speeds based on each trainers power curve. On a computrainer I was pushing the same watts at 28mph where I'm struggling to push the same watts on mine at home at 18mph. Outside you have other factors like wind, hills both up and down and on a trainer it's just different. It will make you better when Spring comes and you can regularly ride outside. Virtual Power = function(Speed) If Virtual Power "means something", then so does speed. And, therefore, so does distance. Just understand what it means. And what it doesn't. What you said earlier about comparing speed between trainer rides is correct, and in that reason virtual power is useful, as it gives a more precise measurement. How much of an improvement is a 1mph increase in speed on the trainer? What pace would create a Zone 2 effort? Pure speed doesn't quantify these as well as mapping to a power curve of a trainer to calculate a virtual power. You've posted why distance isn't important, so I'm not sure why you made the bolded statement. I agree there is some added value in understanding how much harder you have to work to go 1mph faster on a given trainer (e.g., might not be the same as 1mph faster on another trainer or going from 17-18mph might not be the same as going from 20-21mph). Virtual power does that math for you so you don't have to worry about it. But saying that speed doesn't mean anything makes no sense since it is the measurement of rider output used to create a virtual power number. Knowing that I rode last week at 17mph and this week at 18mph does tell me something (I rode harder this week). I never made any kind of blanket statement that distance wasn't important. I posted earlier why training by distance on the bike might not make a lot of sense given that it may not consistently 'map' to your combined effort and time. On an individual trainer, it actually does (if it didn't, virtual power wouldn't be possible). Like I said, just understand what each metric means and what it doesn't and they can each be useful in their own way. |
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