Swim stroke rate (Page 3)

If you look at the Oly national championship race you will see that the top100-125 or a few more were 1:12/100 for 1500 or faster......so those folks are probably right at 1:00/100 in a pool....give or take a few. Some of them were in their late 40's.  That's fast enough for an AG triathlete, huh?

But... then how do you play swolf??????

Great question LB.  I know from having worked with many adult onset swimmers (300+) over 30 years, they often don't want to hear about going back and learning fundamentals.  If I have someone that can't swim at all, they are generally at least open to the idea of starting with the basics.  On the other hand, take someone that can "swim," albeit "beating the water into submission," at 2:30/100,  they don't want to hear things like, "fundamentals," "blow bubbles," or "let's learn to kick, "  because they "know how to swim."  Never mind suggesting floating or pressing on the water.  There is incredible resistance to doing fundamentals because, as I have been told on countless occasions, "I'm not a child".

Add to that the fact that there aren't that many adult swimming classes.  Yeah, you may find one at the Y or the local public pool, but they are few and far between.  Not 2-miles from my house they just built a beautiful 50m x 25y 12-foot deep competition pool with a 25y warm-up tank (3-6 feet).  The city has advertised it as the greatest aquatic complex anywhere.  They have dozens of swimming classes, even this late into fall, yet not one adult swim class.  I don't know of too many 30, 40, or 50 somethings that are willing to join a tadpole swim class with the little ones.

Often times, those same adult onset swimmers get to a pool, training for their bucket list Ironman or some shorter triathlon, swimming their "fast" 1:45 100's and they know it all, or think they do.  As often as not, they don't want to hear how to get more efficient or dare I say faster.  They just want to hear they are doing it right and if you won't tell them they are, they'll find someone who will.  Just a few weeks ago, there was an individual right here on the forums that was looking for the best workout she could do in the three 45-minutes slots she had available to train for her upcoming Ironman.  She was given  a wide range of suggestions, ranging from that isn't nearly enough time to train for an Ironman swim to swim a couple 400's.  As it turned out, she wasn't interested in reality, she was merely looking for confirmation that her ideas were correct.

While there are not a great many adult swim classes out there, they can be found if an individual is seriously looking.  I know there are coaches and instructors that are willing to work with adult onset swimmers and if necessary, guide them from entering the water the first time through actually being able to swim.  Maybe instead of asking, "Why can't we teach adults to swim," the better question might be, "Why don't adults want to start from the beginning and learn to swim the right way?"

My guess is that there generally aren't enough adults who really want to put in the time necessary to learn to swim fast.  It's not something you can easily do on 2-3, maybe 1-hr, swims per week.

For those that want to commit, I'm sure you can find a coach (though might not be in a convenient location or at a convenient time).  But probably not a "program" because there aren't a critical mass of such adults in most locales.

Yep. Pool speed is a decent measure of swimming ability.

Triathloin swims aren't much of a measure since they are almost never distance correct, conditions change, etc. 

idk....I can do a 1:05 and I wouldn't consider myself fast.

If you can't knock out under a :57 you aren't fast imo.

sure fast is relative. but if you are saying "a fast triathlete swims this" it doesn't matter if you are a beginner or a fast triathlete, the number is the same.

that's like saying the world record 100m dash is 9.69 seconds, but since I'm slow, to me the world record is relatively 12 seconds.

fast is what fast is.

ETA: just because the site says beginners at the top, doesn't mean there are only beginners here. its the job of the non-beginners to teach the beginners.

FOP, or fast, is objective, not subjective.

In my local M60-64 AG, the top few guys are doing about 1:30/100.  But you'll usually be in the top 1/3 of the AG if you can just consistently swim sub 2:00/100 in OW races.

Mark

ok....you're saying that people can't agree about what the objective measure is, that is true. However, that doesn't make it subjective, that just makes you wrong if you pick the wrong measure.

USAT uses a 200/800 swim test for a benchmark for DL athletes.  Both swam all out with a 1 minute rest between.  Then sometime in the next week you swim a 100 all out.  The benchmarks are different for different levels....but it's a good measure of swim speed and predicted speed at race distances up to 1500M.

Sutton's strategy is basically to take someone with a big engine.  Pound them with tons and tons of yardage with a pull buoy to make them more efficient with their arms, and then set them loose in a race where the swim is only ~10% of the total time. He doesn't make good swimmers, he makes athletes that won't lose the race in the water.

I would suspect that this strategy wouldn't work as well in a more even race like an Olympic.  At the highest level you need your swim to be a weapon, and you need to be able to get out with the top athletes while minimizing your energy expenditure. you can't afford to lose minutes there.

Yeah....without a doubt wetsuits change the metrics for "faster" swimming.  I can see your point about the pull bouy and return on investment.  How would she have done in a race distance like Oly or Sprint where the swim is so much more important? 

It's funny....I always have to remind myself that many folks discuss triathlon with a heavy IM distance slant.  I rarely ever think of triathlon with regard to IM.  Not that either is the worng way to look at the sport.......but the sport sure looks different between the two....and then add DL....another game again.

He's made good swimmers in the past, too.  Including ITU champions.  He may not train them the same way as an IM swimmer, because the goal is not the same.