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Aero Wheels 101 (Page 3)
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 2015-03-13 8:19 AM in reply to: msteiner |
Extreme Veteran  3025    Maryland |  Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101Originally posted by msteiner Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn With the understanding that "worth it" is a relative term, is it worth it to use a disc cover on a training wheel if I don't also have an aero front wheel? Is the aero benefit significant enough to justify even the relatively meager cost of the cover if I'm using a standard front wheel? Anyone who doesn't have a rear disc should be riding a disc cover. They're giving up speed otherwise. They cost about $90, which is peanuts in the cycling world. I actually prefer my HED3 rear to the disk cover. I think its faster, the wheel is stiffer, and I get the narrow profile. Otherwise I would agree with you. |
| 2015-03-13 8:47 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Extreme Veteran 2261 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by msteiner Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn With the understanding that "worth it" is a relative term, is it worth it to use a disc cover on a training wheel if I don't also have an aero front wheel? Is the aero benefit significant enough to justify even the relatively meager cost of the cover if I'm using a standard front wheel? Anyone who doesn't have a rear disc should be riding a disc cover. They're giving up speed otherwise. They cost about $90, which is peanuts in the cycling world. I actually prefer my HED3 rear to the disk cover. I think its faster, the wheel is stiffer, and I get the narrow profile. Otherwise I would agree with you. The HED3 is a good choice as well. |
| 2015-03-13 8:50 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by msteiner Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn With the understanding that "worth it" is a relative term, is it worth it to use a disc cover on a training wheel if I don't also have an aero front wheel? Is the aero benefit significant enough to justify even the relatively meager cost of the cover if I'm using a standard front wheel? Anyone who doesn't have a rear disc should be riding a disc cover. They're giving up speed otherwise. They cost about $90, which is peanuts in the cycling world. I actually prefer my HED3 rear to the disk cover. I think its faster, the wheel is stiffer, and I get the narrow profile. Otherwise I would agree with you. I rode a couple of years with a stock front wheel + disc cover - made me faster before I had a deeper front wheel - which made me faster again. Remember, every little bit helps the overall sum of your time savings. Add in increments as the budget allows, or as you desire, but it all helps on race day. Latex tubes, I keep them sealed in a zip lock bag when not using them. Not sure how much of a difference it makes, but I believe it helps them not dry out over time. |
| 2015-03-13 10:20 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by dmiller5 You won't find a tunnel test to backup the faster claim. The H3 will be comparable to other wheels at low yaw but gets smoked by a disc as yaw angles increase. Even Hed's own data showed that. The narrow profile also means very little in the rear as the wheel is largely shielded by the frame. The H3 also presents tire selection problems due to its narrow rim width. More modern wheels and tires hold a lot of advantages over the H3. Originally posted by msteiner Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn With the understanding that "worth it" is a relative term, is it worth it to use a disc cover on a training wheel if I don't also have an aero front wheel? Is the aero benefit significant enough to justify even the relatively meager cost of the cover if I'm using a standard front wheel? Anyone who doesn't have a rear disc should be riding a disc cover. They're giving up speed otherwise. They cost about $90, which is peanuts in the cycling world. I actually prefer my HED3 rear to the disk cover. I think its faster, the wheel is stiffer, and I get the narrow profile. Otherwise I would agree with you. |
| 2015-03-13 11:55 AM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by GMAN 19030 ^ Yup, you took e the words right out of my mouth! Originally posted by dmiller5 You won't find a tunnel test to backup the faster claim. The H3 will be comparable to other wheels at low yaw but gets smoked by a disc as yaw angles increase. Even Hed's own data showed that. The narrow profile also means very little in the rear as the wheel is largely shielded by the frame. The H3 also presents tire selection problems due to its narrow rim width. More modern wheels and tires hold a lot of advantages over the H3. Originally posted by msteiner Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn With the understanding that "worth it" is a relative term, is it worth it to use a disc cover on a training wheel if I don't also have an aero front wheel? Is the aero benefit significant enough to justify even the relatively meager cost of the cover if I'm using a standard front wheel? Anyone who doesn't have a rear disc should be riding a disc cover. They're giving up speed otherwise. They cost about $90, which is peanuts in the cycling world. I actually prefer my HED3 rear to the disk cover. I think its faster, the wheel is stiffer, and I get the narrow profile. Otherwise I would agree with you. The fasted 20c tire has the same Crr as a GP4000s but sacrifices durability. So you run the GP4000s on the H3 and what do you get, something that's still not as fast in the crosswinds. Might as well as make one of these for your H3!
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| 2015-03-13 12:41 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 interesting, when I look at the data I see something quite different. At my speed, 24-26 mph, they would appear to be optimal.
Edited by dmiller5 2015-03-13 12:55 PM |
| 2015-03-13 1:46 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Extreme Veteran 2261 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Comparing data between different charts like that isn't the best way to figure out what's faster. The Zipp 404 has a different value in each chart, which means that there were differences in the setup. The big takeaway for non race wheel owners is to get a disc cover even if you don't have a racing front. |
| 2015-03-13 1:58 PM in reply to: msteiner |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by msteiner Comparing data between different charts like that isn't the best way to figure out what's faster. The Zipp 404 has a different value in each chart, which means that there were differences in the setup. The big takeaway for non race wheel owners is to get a disc cover even if you don't have a racing front. What's interesting is according to that chart the Stinger 9 is faster overall than the H3. I trust this comparison since both are HED wheels and that chart comes from HED I have tested multiple times that my covered Stinger 9 is faster than without the cover. And as Gman said, add the extra savings of a wider, lower CRR tire and you are way ahead. |
| 2015-03-13 2:52 PM in reply to: marcag |
| Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by msteiner What's interesting is according to that chart the Stinger 9 is faster overall than the H3. I trust this comparison since both are HED wheels and that chart comes from HED I have tested multiple times that my covered Stinger 9 is faster than without the cover. And as Gman said, add the extra savings of a wider, lower CRR tire and you are way ahead. Comparing data between different charts like that isn't the best way to figure out what's faster. The Zipp 404 has a different value in each chart, which means that there were differences in the setup. The big takeaway for non race wheel owners is to get a disc cover even if you don't have a racing front. Do you think the cover would test faster on a day with more wind? I vaguely remember a ST thread where folks were discussing that you could actually TT faster with some wind than no wind at all given you had a disc. Due to the sail effect and drag actually going below zero in some cases for the rear wheel. Not sure how much of it was actually true though, but I've had some results that make me think it has some teeth. |
| 2015-03-13 3:31 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by msteiner What's interesting is according to that chart the Stinger 9 is faster overall than the H3. I trust this comparison since both are HED wheels and that chart comes from HED I have tested multiple times that my covered Stinger 9 is faster than without the cover. And as Gman said, add the extra savings of a wider, lower CRR tire and you are way ahead. Comparing data between different charts like that isn't the best way to figure out what's faster. The Zipp 404 has a different value in each chart, which means that there were differences in the setup. The big takeaway for non race wheel owners is to get a disc cover even if you don't have a racing front. Do you think the cover would test faster on a day with more wind? I vaguely remember a ST thread where folks were discussing that you could actually TT faster with some wind than no wind at all given you had a disc. Due to the sail effect and drag actually going below zero in some cases for the rear wheel. Not sure how much of it was actually true though, but I've had some results that make me think it has some teeth. Yes. There are points of negative drag.There are specific wind conditions that cause this. Edited by marcag 2015-03-13 3:31 PM |
| 2015-03-13 4:28 PM in reply to: marcag |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by marcag I've felt it. One on the big local sprint races here in FL on the coast has 11 miles total of down and back on A1A along the ocean. Several large homes and condo complexes along the route. When the wind is blowing perpendicular (sea breeze type) you'll have shadow effects by the building then between them the wind is funneled. As you hit these mini wind streams the first thing you have to lean into the wind to keep straight, then you'll feel a push. It's a weird feeling and you'll see many people come out of aero thinking they are going to lose control, but once the bike settles its stable and you feel that little tug of speed and can take advantage of it while others are being parachutes! This year I'll have my FLO 60 up front and the 90 w/disc cover on the back, if the winds are right should be an interesting comparison to my old 40/40 DC setup. Last year the winds were perpendicular at sustained 15-20mph +gusts.Originally posted by Jason N Yes. There are points of negative drag.There are specific wind conditions that cause this. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by msteiner What's interesting is according to that chart the Stinger 9 is faster overall than the H3. I trust this comparison since both are HED wheels and that chart comes from HED I have tested multiple times that my covered Stinger 9 is faster than without the cover. And as Gman said, add the extra savings of a wider, lower CRR tire and you are way ahead. Comparing data between different charts like that isn't the best way to figure out what's faster. The Zipp 404 has a different value in each chart, which means that there were differences in the setup. The big takeaway for non race wheel owners is to get a disc cover even if you don't have a racing front. Do you think the cover would test faster on a day with more wind? I vaguely remember a ST thread where folks were discussing that you could actually TT faster with some wind than no wind at all given you had a disc. Due to the sail effect and drag actually going below zero in some cases for the rear wheel. Not sure how much of it was actually true though, but I've had some results that make me think it has some teeth. |
| 2015-03-13 5:28 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by dmiller5 interesting, when I look at the data I see something quite different. At my speed, 24-26 mph, they would appear to be optimal. Someone already pointed out the fallacy of using different charts. Here are is one with both a disc and H3D... which probably tests better than a H3. Notice the H3 isn't close to the Hed disc except in very low yaw situations.
I wish Hed still had their aero chart on their website. Their own data showed the disc to be better at just about every yaw angle.
Edited by GMAN 19030 2015-03-13 5:29 PM |
| 2015-03-13 6:36 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 A real disc is probably faster than the HED3 rear, however a disc cover on a box rim I'm not buying it. Maybe I just had bad experiences with it, but the thing was always rattling when I hit a bump, and just didn't feel solid back there. If it was raining water would end up inside. The fit seemed to change with the temperature. hot races it was nice and tight, cold races it didn't seem big enough. For the record I was using a wheelbuilder cover on a mavic openpro 32 spoke. I did the same courses a year later on my H3 rear with the same power and faster speeds. (Caveat, I was lighter so that may be completely meaningless). Also with the yaw guys, how many races do you do with a crosswind above 10 mph? Not many. I would wager that the yaw angle is very low most of the time in my races. Edited by dmiller5 2015-03-13 6:39 PM |
| 2015-03-13 7:34 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by dmiller5 A real disc is probably faster than the HED3 rear, however a disc cover on a box rim I'm not buying it. Maybe I just had bad experiences with it, but the thing was always rattling when I hit a bump, and just didn't feel solid back there. If it was raining water would end up inside. The fit seemed to change with the temperature. hot races it was nice and tight, cold races it didn't seem big enough. For the record I was using a wheelbuilder cover on a mavic openpro 32 spoke. I did the same courses a year later on my H3 rear with the same power and faster speeds. (Caveat, I was lighter so that may be completely meaningless). Also with the yaw guys, how many races do you do with a crosswind above 10 mph? Not many. I would wager that the yaw angle is very low most of the time in my races. I pulled out some data from last year I tested 3 configurations HED Ardennes, which maybe 25mm deep + disc cover HED Jet 9 HED Jet 9 with disc cover I had to pick one of these for a race. The Ardennes had a PT I wanted to use. The Jet 9 without cover was lightest and no rattling of cover. The 9 with cover was a bit heavier, rattled but I suspected it would be fastest. The Jet 9 with disc cover and Ardennes with disc cover were the same and faster than the Jet 9 without cover. At 38km/h (23.75mph) they were close, but still faster than the Jet 9. This seems to be the approximate speed you race at Same wheel width, tires, tubes..... Test was done on an oval, winds were about 6mph I don't think the Ardennes is much better than a box rim EDIT : I did the math, there was about 5-6 watts difference. Edited by marcag 2015-03-13 7:43 PM |
| 2015-03-13 7:53 PM in reply to: marcag |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by dmiller5 I pulled out some data from last year I tested 3 configurations HED Ardennes, which maybe 25mm deep + disc cover HED Jet 9 HED Jet 9 with disc cover I had to pick one of these for a race. The Ardennes had a PT I wanted to use. The Jet 9 without cover was lightest and no rattling of cover. The 9 with cover was a bit heavier, rattled but I suspected it would be fastest. The Jet 9 with disc cover and Ardennes with disc cover were the same and faster than the Jet 9 without cover. At 38km/h (23.75mph) they were close, but still faster than the Jet 9. This seems to be the approximate speed you race at Same wheel width, tires, tubes..... Test was done on an oval, winds were about 6mph I don't think the Ardennes is much better than a box rim EDIT : I did the math, there was about 5-6 watts difference. A real disc is probably faster than the HED3 rear, however a disc cover on a box rim I'm not buying it. Maybe I just had bad experiences with it, but the thing was always rattling when I hit a bump, and just didn't feel solid back there. If it was raining water would end up inside. The fit seemed to change with the temperature. hot races it was nice and tight, cold races it didn't seem big enough. For the record I was using a wheelbuilder cover on a mavic openpro 32 spoke. I did the same courses a year later on my H3 rear with the same power and faster speeds. (Caveat, I was lighter so that may be completely meaningless). Also with the yaw guys, how many races do you do with a crosswind above 10 mph? Not many. I would wager that the yaw angle is very low most of the time in my races. Man want to borrow my HED3 and test that too? :P I have no doubt the cover is better than most wheels, but I think the HED3 is better than my cover in my setup. |
| 2015-03-13 8:11 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by dmiller5 I pulled out some data from last year I tested 3 configurations HED Ardennes, which maybe 25mm deep + disc cover HED Jet 9 HED Jet 9 with disc cover I had to pick one of these for a race. The Ardennes had a PT I wanted to use. The Jet 9 without cover was lightest and no rattling of cover. The 9 with cover was a bit heavier, rattled but I suspected it would be fastest. The Jet 9 with disc cover and Ardennes with disc cover were the same and faster than the Jet 9 without cover. At 38km/h (23.75mph) they were close, but still faster than the Jet 9. This seems to be the approximate speed you race at Same wheel width, tires, tubes..... Test was done on an oval, winds were about 6mph I don't think the Ardennes is much better than a box rim EDIT : I did the math, there was about 5-6 watts difference. A real disc is probably faster than the HED3 rear, however a disc cover on a box rim I'm not buying it. Maybe I just had bad experiences with it, but the thing was always rattling when I hit a bump, and just didn't feel solid back there. If it was raining water would end up inside. The fit seemed to change with the temperature. hot races it was nice and tight, cold races it didn't seem big enough. For the record I was using a wheelbuilder cover on a mavic openpro 32 spoke. I did the same courses a year later on my H3 rear with the same power and faster speeds. (Caveat, I was lighter so that may be completely meaningless). Also with the yaw guys, how many races do you do with a crosswind above 10 mph? Not many. I would wager that the yaw angle is very low most of the time in my races. Man want to borrow my HED3 and test that too? :P I have no doubt the cover is better than most wheels, but I think the HED3 is better than my cover in my setup. No thanks :-) I have enough crap to test. When riding, indoors and outdoors, I probably do some form of a test, one ride out of two. I just build them into the workout. Doing laps around a F1 track at paces of 140 to 320 watts without budging out of aero makes for some interesting workouts :-) But I have found some really interesting tidbits in position and equipment. I don't like disc covers. They are faster but I don't like them. They rattle, they can be a PITA to pump, you have to remove them for training......but they are faster. I find electrical tape makes them a little less rattly. |
| 2015-03-13 8:14 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
| Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by dmiller5 Also with the yaw guys, how many races do you do with a crosswind above 10 mph? Not many. I would wager that the yaw angle is very low most of the time in my races. Where I'm from, a day with winds less than 10-15 and gusts to 20 is an abnormality. Which direction the wind comes from??? Well, that just depends on the course. |
| 2015-03-14 8:17 AM in reply to: Jason N |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by dmiller5 Also with the yaw guys, how many races do you do with a crosswind above 10 mph? Not many. I would wager that the yaw angle is very low most of the time in my races. Where I'm from, a day with winds less than 10-15 and gusts to 20 is an abnormality. Which direction the wind comes from??? Well, that just depends on the course.
Same here in SE Texas. |
| 2015-03-14 8:17 AM in reply to: marcag |
| 360 Ottawa, Ontario | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by marcag I don't like disc covers. They are faster but I don't like them. They rattle, they can be a PITA to pump, you have to remove them for training......but they are faster. I find electrical tape makes them a little less rattly. The other thing you can do is get a sheet of thin foam (1mm), cut it to fit on the inside of your disc cover, and stick it on there with spray adhesive. Negligible affect of weight and fit, and when used in conjunction with electrical tape along with rim, should eliminate any rattling. |
| 2015-03-14 9:10 AM in reply to: #5098399 |
Expert 1484 | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Tossing my $.02 in Don't discount comfort. I run a HED Stinger disc on my track bike. The spoked design is so much better at soaking up the bumps. So much so I have no idea how people run solid core discs. I've tried some Zipp 900 discs and did not like the ride. On my Tri bike I had a Sub9 that sold after one Tri race. Favored a disc covered rear due to ride comfort. Something else is how your bike, you, and the wheels interact. A set of Flo 60s on my road bike where great. Nice ride and handled winds no problem. Same wheels on my Tri bike and the front end would get blown around by passing cars and things like big trucks where scary. A disc cover helped settle the front down. A 1080 on the front and disc rear or disc cover on the Tri bike was very stable too. I'm running Vision Metron 40s this season. Put a cover on the rear and gonna play around with tires. Have a set of GP4000 II in 23 and 25, and Schwalbe Ones in 25 to pick from. Guessing either of the 25s will be my choice due how they roll. The hubs on the Vision wheels are amazing, can we start a ceramic bearing thread next :-) |
| 2015-03-14 11:11 AM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by GMAN 19030 Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by dmiller5 Also with the yaw guys, how many races do you do with a crosswind above 10 mph? Not many. I would wager that the yaw angle is very low most of the time in my races. Where I'm from, a day with winds less than 10-15 and gusts to 20 is an abnormality. Which direction the wind comes from??? Well, that just depends on the course. Same here in SE Texas. Yup, here too. On the cover noise mine is quiet if I tape inside of the non drive side to a few spokes. That keeps it from being able to move at all and eliminates the rattle for me. |
| 2015-03-14 11:29 AM in reply to: marcag |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by dmiller5 I pulled out some data from last year I tested 3 configurations HED Ardennes, which maybe 25mm deep + disc cover HED Jet 9 HED Jet 9 with disc cover I had to pick one of these for a race. The Ardennes had a PT I wanted to use. The Jet 9 without cover was lightest and no rattling of cover. The 9 with cover was a bit heavier, rattled but I suspected it would be fastest. The Jet 9 with disc cover and Ardennes with disc cover were the same and faster than the Jet 9 without cover. At 38km/h (23.75mph) they were close, but still faster than the Jet 9. This seems to be the approximate speed you race at Same wheel width, tires, tubes..... Test was done on an oval, winds were about 6mph I don't think the Ardennes is much better than a box rim EDIT : I did the math, there was about 5-6 watts difference. A real disc is probably faster than the HED3 rear, however a disc cover on a box rim I'm not buying it. Maybe I just had bad experiences with it, but the thing was always rattling when I hit a bump, and just didn't feel solid back there. If it was raining water would end up inside. The fit seemed to change with the temperature. hot races it was nice and tight, cold races it didn't seem big enough. For the record I was using a wheelbuilder cover on a mavic openpro 32 spoke. I did the same courses a year later on my H3 rear with the same power and faster speeds. (Caveat, I was lighter so that may be completely meaningless). Also with the yaw guys, how many races do you do with a crosswind above 10 mph? Not many. I would wager that the yaw angle is very low most of the time in my races. Man want to borrow my HED3 and test that too? :P I have no doubt the cover is better than most wheels, but I think the HED3 is better than my cover in my setup. No thanks :-) I have enough crap to test. When riding, indoors and outdoors, I probably do some form of a test, one ride out of two. I just build them into the workout. Doing laps around a F1 track at paces of 140 to 320 watts without budging out of aero makes for some interesting workouts :-) But I have found some really interesting tidbits in position and equipment. I don't like disc covers. They are faster but I don't like them. They rattle, they can be a PITA to pump, you have to remove them for training......but they are faster. I find electrical tape makes them a little less rattly. Out of curiosity, why do you need to take them off for training? |
| 2015-03-14 11:30 AM in reply to: axteraa |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by GMAN 19030 Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by dmiller5 Also with the yaw guys, how many races do you do with a crosswind above 10 mph? Not many. I would wager that the yaw angle is very low most of the time in my races. Where I'm from, a day with winds less than 10-15 and gusts to 20 is an abnormality. Which direction the wind comes from??? Well, that just depends on the course. Same here in SE Texas. Yup, here too. On the cover noise mine is quiet if I tape inside of the non drive side to a few spokes. That keeps it from being able to move at all and eliminates the rattle for me. Add another "yep". I just did an 80 miler with a 15-20 mph cross wind the entire time. |
| 2015-03-14 11:46 AM in reply to: marcag |
Extreme Veteran 2261 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by dmiller5 No thanks :-) I have enough crap to test. When riding, indoors and outdoors, I probably do some form of a test, one ride out of two. I just build them into the workout. Doing laps around a F1 track at paces of 140 to 320 watts without budging out of aero makes for some interesting workouts :-) But I have found some really interesting tidbits in position and equipment. I don't like disc covers. They are faster but I don't like them. They rattle, they can be a PITA to pump, you have to remove them for training......but they are faster. I find electrical tape makes them a little less rattly. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by dmiller5 I pulled out some data from last year I tested 3 configurations HED Ardennes, which maybe 25mm deep + disc cover HED Jet 9 HED Jet 9 with disc cover I had to pick one of these for a race. The Ardennes had a PT I wanted to use. The Jet 9 without cover was lightest and no rattling of cover. The 9 with cover was a bit heavier, rattled but I suspected it would be fastest. The Jet 9 with disc cover and Ardennes with disc cover were the same and faster than the Jet 9 without cover. At 38km/h (23.75mph) they were close, but still faster than the Jet 9. This seems to be the approximate speed you race at Same wheel width, tires, tubes..... Test was done on an oval, winds were about 6mph I don't think the Ardennes is much better than a box rim EDIT : I did the math, there was about 5-6 watts difference. A real disc is probably faster than the HED3 rear, however a disc cover on a box rim I'm not buying it. Maybe I just had bad experiences with it, but the thing was always rattling when I hit a bump, and just didn't feel solid back there. If it was raining water would end up inside. The fit seemed to change with the temperature. hot races it was nice and tight, cold races it didn't seem big enough. For the record I was using a wheelbuilder cover on a mavic openpro 32 spoke. I did the same courses a year later on my H3 rear with the same power and faster speeds. (Caveat, I was lighter so that may be completely meaningless). Also with the yaw guys, how many races do you do with a crosswind above 10 mph? Not many. I would wager that the yaw angle is very low most of the time in my races. Man want to borrow my HED3 and test that too? :P I have no doubt the cover is better than most wheels, but I think the HED3 is better than my cover in my setup. When I use electrical tape it seems to eliminate the rattling and banging. The pump annoyance is a first world problem at best that's worth saving time in the actual race. |
| 2015-03-14 11:51 AM in reply to: msteiner |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Aero Wheels 101 This thing makes the pump annoyance go away. It's not cheap but works really well - just press it on and pull it off. http://silca.cc/collections/pump-heads/products/disc-wheel-mini-chuck
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