Importance of long run
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2015-06-21 6:03 PM |
439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: Importance of long run today I ran about 6 miles and struggled. My legs hurt the way they used to hurt when I'd do 10-15 miles. Now, 6 miles should have been a lot easier for me. Here's my question. Up until the first week of May, I was doing a longer run once a week. The last "long run" I did was 9 miles about 7 weeks ago. Since then I have started doing shorter harder runs getting ready for sprint tris. Had my first race this past weekend. Would sacrificing the longer slower run for shorter intense runs hurt my fitness levels? Or could it just be a bad day? I know you prolly need more info so just tell me. |
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2015-06-21 6:48 PM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
409 Durham, North Carolina | Subject: RE: Importance of long run I'm nowhere near a running expert, but I'll chime in a little. I'm currently following the Barry P plan which everyone seems to love. It calls for 3 short recovery runs 2 medium and 1 long run. If I was training for a sprint I would keep my long run and 3 easy runs the same. For the medium runs I would do tempo runs (not really sure if I'm using the right term), race pace and over race pace intervals. Depending on your fitness you could do 1 or 2 of your medium runs like that. I don't have the best base so I would do 1 day. |
2015-06-22 11:26 AM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Importance of long run What kind of running were you doing over the past 7 weeks? How fast did you try to run the 6? If you just raced this weekend, it could simply be fatigue from that race. That would be my best bet unless you had really cut down the mileage over the past couple months. |
2015-06-22 11:40 AM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: RE: Importance of long run I went from running 15-20 miles/week up until may. Bumping up my long run each week, my last long run being 9 miles. Almost all of my runs at that time were fairly easy runs. Since the early part of May, I havent done a "long" run each week, my longest each week being 5-6 miles. But I have done alot of brick workouts with 1.5-2.5 mile harder runs. Probably averaging 12-15 miles/wk for the last 7 weeks but doing alot more high intensity runs. I guess I'm just wondering if my goal races are sprints, and I'm focusing mostly on shorter harder runs, am i going to lose fitness in just a few weeks time by not doing the one long run each week? |
2015-06-22 11:40 AM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Regular 585 Pueblo, Colorado | Subject: RE: Importance of long run If your focus is going to be on Sprint distance races, you're probably fine to do shorter, more intense runs and forgo a longer run of more than about 6-7 miles. I don't think it's so much a question of losing fitness versus having a different kind of fitness. If you've had several weeks since doing a longer run, it wouldn't be surprising to struggle a bit more. You might also think about recovery. Were you running on "tired" legs after a more intense workout? |
2015-06-22 11:57 AM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Importance of long run Originally posted by mchadcota2I went from running 15-20 miles/week up until may. Bumping up my long run each week, my last long run being 9 miles. Almost all of my runs at that time were fairly easy runs. Since the early part of May, I havent done a "long" run each week, my longest each week being 5-6 miles. But I have done alot of brick workouts with 1.5-2.5 mile harder runs. Probably averaging 12-15 miles/wk for the last 7 weeks but doing alot more high intensity runs. I guess I'm just wondering if my goal races are sprints, and I'm focusing mostly on shorter harder runs, am i going to lose fitness in just a few weeks time by not doing the one long run each week? It's not the lack of a long run. Your total weekly volume is too low to run 9 miles well. Consider that you're asking your body to do 75% of your usual weekly average in just 1 run. |
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2015-06-22 12:01 PM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Importance of long run How much are you actually averaging (ie, not 'probably')? 1.5-2.5 mi runs aren't very much. And unless you are really doing a lot of them each week, you may not even be running 12-15mi/wk. Which is not a lot of running any way you slice it. You're going to lose fitness by running less, not necessarily by just doing a shorter 'long run' by itself. Anyway, on that kind of weekly mileage and doing a race this past weekend, I don't think it should be totally surprising that you might struggle a bit with 6 today. |
2015-06-22 12:08 PM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Importance of long run I don't think those 1.5 to 2.5 mile "hard" runs are worth a crap, unless they are done as a tempo run once a week, or every two weeks, with a mile or so on either end as a warm up or cool down. Interval work, which will also be longer than 1.5 to 2.5 miles for the total workout, is what will build speed for you. The long run also has a place as a "stress" workout. Bottom line, you're not running much. You can get faster on your mileage, for a sprint race, but you need someone who really knows what they are doing to structure it for you, and you'd need to be doing A LOT of swimming/biking on top of it. |
2015-06-22 12:24 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: RE: Importance of long run The 9 mile run was not an issue when I was doing that distance. So its not a matter of my body struggling with that distance. This time last year I was doing 13.1 at 6:50 ish pace. Although I took it easy for a couple of months last fall, I have been training pretty hard this whole year so I would assume I still have some of that longer distance fitness left. I set out to do 5-6 miles yesterday, had planned to do it easy(7:45-8 min pace) and once I got started I decided to pick it up and turn it in to a more "tempo" type run I guess. So I started trying to keep around 6:50-7 min pace. By mile 3.5 to 4 my legs felt like I had been running 10 miles. Its been a long time since they have felt like that. I guess what I'm saying is 2 months ago that would not have happened after 3 miles. And the only thing that has changed is my run volume has cut slightly but I'm doing more bricks and more high intensity runs. I'm hoping it was just an off day. |
2015-06-22 12:49 PM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Extreme Veteran 516 Olathe, KS | Subject: RE: Importance of long run I'll throw this in for consideration: the weather is warmer now than it was 7 or so weeks ago (although I can't speak for Nashville's weather lately). Outdoors runs are going to feel harder anyway, perhaps compounding the problem. Not so much from a leg tiredness but an overall perspective. |
2015-06-22 1:06 PM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Importance of long run You are not running much (your volume has been cut more than 'slightly' from what you have indicated--30-40% by my guess) and you pushed the pace on a run right after doing a race. It was not an 'off day'. It's what you should expect under those circumstances. |
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2015-06-22 1:18 PM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: RE: Importance of long run Gotcha. I would not think that a sprint race(1/2 mi swim, 18 mi bike, 4 mi run), would affect me at all a week later. Sounds like some of you think that I could still have some fatigue from that race. That would have never crossed my mind since its such a short distance. |
2015-06-22 1:20 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Importance of long run Originally posted by mchadcota2 The 9 mile run was not an issue when I was doing that distance. So its not a matter of my body struggling with that distance. This time last year I was doing 13.1 at 6:50 ish pace. Although I took it easy for a couple of months last fall, I have been training pretty hard this whole year so I would assume I still have some of that longer distance fitness left. I set out to do 5-6 miles yesterday, had planned to do it easy(7:45-8 min pace) and once I got started I decided to pick it up and turn it in to a more "tempo" type run I guess. So I started trying to keep around 6:50-7 min pace. By mile 3.5 to 4 my legs felt like I had been running 10 miles. Its been a long time since they have felt like that. I guess what I'm saying is 2 months ago that would not have happened after 3 miles. And the only thing that has changed is my run volume has cut slightly but I'm doing more bricks and more high intensity runs. I'm hoping it was just an off day. I know there are those who don't like to hear stories of what my kid is doing because it "doesn't apply" or whatever......but it fits here as well as it does in many instances. He runs fast sprints......easily sub 1 hour for 750M/20K/5K. His 5K time off the bike when he is trained up is in the 16:30 range. He can't do that right now. The reason he can't is that he is coming off a track season where he was concentrating on the 800. He went 1:54.2 in the 800 and was happy with his performance and training....he rarely ran over 10 miles in a week and the triathlons he did during that time were based on base miles that he had put in prior to track season.(his fitness is obviouisly HIGH) His 5K time right now is about a minute off what it should be, and a 5 mile run for him is no picnic. He'll get back to form fast enough, but my point is that what you are specifically doing in training matters greatly. You can't look at one run where you felt like crap and wonder what is going on when you've not been doing much running......no matter how fast you are, or how fit you are. When tri season is over he'll concentrate on XC season and get his 5K time down to 15:XX or under......but he won't be able to touch a 1:54.XX 800.....yet. Next year he'll very likely go well under that.....but it's because of a LOOOONG body of work, with specific training objectives along the way. One bad long run among very few long runs......meh. Edited by Left Brain 2015-06-22 1:32 PM |
2015-06-22 1:44 PM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Importance of long run Originally posted by mchadcota2 Gotcha. I would not think that a sprint race(1/2 mi swim, 18 mi bike, 4 mi run), would affect me at all a week later. Sounds like some of you think that I could still have some fatigue from that race. That would have never crossed my mind since its such a short distance. Earlier you said you did the sprint "this past weekend". I assumed that meant this weekend, having been the one that just passed. If it was a week ago, then race fatigue should not have been a significant factor. In that case you are down to just looking at how much you are running and how hard. You're not running enough to make any run of distance very 'easy'. And when you decide to do one 'hard', then you are more likely to find yourself struggling to some degree. Sounds like that's what happened.
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2015-06-22 1:58 PM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: RE: Importance of long run Thanks a lot for the input. Sounds like I need to step up my running. Just curious....do you do more run sessions or bike sessions each week? I'm usually around 3 bikes, 3-4 runs each week |
2015-06-22 1:59 PM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Importance of long run Originally posted by mchadcota2 Thanks a lot for the input. Sounds like I need to step up my running. Just curious....do you do more run sessions or bike sessions each week? I'm usually around 3 bikes, 3-4 runs each week That's fine. Swim more. |
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2015-06-22 2:07 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: RE: Importance of long run Thanks. Oh yeah one more question. How much do you think a couple of lbs of weight factors into a run? Example. I'm pretty lean. 5'11 158 lbs. There have been times in the past where I thought about a week before a race, "I think I've gained a couple pounds here lately so I'm gonna try to shed a couple so I can be faster for the race." So lets say I usually weight about 156-7 lbs and over a couple of weeks I find myself up to 159-160 lbs. Does that make a big difference in your run or not enough to worry about? |
2015-06-22 2:11 PM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Importance of long run Originally posted by mchadcota2 Thanks a lot for the input. Sounds like I need to step up my running. Just curious....do you do more run sessions or bike sessions each week? I'm usually around 3 bikes, 3-4 runs each week It all depends on your goals, etc. But, generally, 3-4 is "fine" as long as 2-3 of them aren't just 1.5-2mi brick runs. At your paces, those aren't even 15min of running. It's hard to prepare yourself "adequately" (again, depends upon goals, etc.) for a sprint tri with a 3-4mi run at the end in that fashion. Most of your run workouts should probably have a minimum of 3-4mi of total running, including the warm-up and cool-downs. There are many ways to structure your actual training and the composition of your running (in conjunction with the other two sports, of course) that should be determined by your constraints, current abilities, and goals. |
2015-06-22 2:16 PM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Importance of long run Originally posted by mchadcota2 Thanks. Oh yeah one more question. How much do you think a couple of lbs of weight factors into a run? Example. I'm pretty lean. 5'11 158 lbs. There have been times in the past where I thought about a week before a race, "I think I've gained a couple pounds here lately so I'm gonna try to shed a couple so I can be faster for the race." So lets say I usually weight about 156-7 lbs and over a couple of weeks I find myself up to 159-160 lbs. Does that make a big difference in your run or not enough to worry about? Weight matters, but for a couple pounds you have much more to gain by learning how to understand the big picture better than having another detail that is more likely to distract you from your goals. At least at this stage. |
2015-06-22 2:17 PM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Subject: RE: Importance of long run How many mpw were you running when you could do your 6:50 pace half marathon last year? To me, it simply sounds like you have been running a lot less since last year and you're trying to run at paces that you could when you had higher run fitness. I don't think run fitness will degrade a lot over the course of 7 weeks...but it sounds like you're comparing yourself to 12 months ago...after admitting that you also took it easy in the fall.
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2015-06-22 2:19 PM in reply to: #5123878 |
439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: RE: Importance of long run Thank you! |
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