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Triathletes' thoughts on coaching
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 2015-07-04 12:15 AM |
 2 |  Subject: Triathletes' thoughts on coachingHi all! I'm doing some small research on coaching in triathlon, and need input from triathletes, both coached and self-coached, on their opinions about coaching. In short, what I'm trying to clarify is why triathletes are interested/are not interested in being coached, what they consider the main benefits if they are coached, what's holding them back if they aren't, what they think coaching could help/could not help them accomplish in triathlon and what they are and aren't looking for in a coach. If you have 5-10 minutes to spare for to answer some questions on these topics, I'd be extremely grateful! Ideally we would chat using skype or google hangouts, but if you don't want to do that it can be handled through the messaging function here on BT or on e-mail. Please get back to me either in this post, in a pm here on BT or by e-mail at mikael.k.k.eriksson ( at ) gmail.com. Thank you! -Mikael |
| 2015-07-04 5:58 AM in reply to: #5126611 |
88 | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching This might not be the most helpful response, but here goes. I do not have a coach, nor am I looking to get one, for one very simple reason: I'm cheap. I have no desire to pay for a coach. Could my times improve with one? Certainly. But that's not a big enough draw to convince me to spend money on a coach. My goal with any race is simply to finish. I have no thoughts of getting the podium or winning any races. My goal is just to finish. I have a background in swimming, so I feel my stoke is "good enough" to get me through. Keep in mind I know for a fact that a coach could improve my stroke & make me faster, but for me this is a hobby, and one that's already pretty expensive. Since I'm not even trying to win any of these races, I'd rather spend that money elsewhere. As I said, this isn't likely the most helpful response, but if you're looking to get into coaching as a business, I'm sure you'll run into people like me, so I wanted to throw my opinion on it out there. |
| 2015-07-04 6:31 AM in reply to: #5126620 |
239 | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching I currently do not have a coach, but will most likely seek one out for next season. Here is my reasoning: For Sprint/Olympic distance events, I don't think a coach is necessary, unless your goal is to "compete" at Age-Group nationals. For Half & Full Iron distance, I think a coach can be invaluable. As you increase distance, there are so many more factors which have to be addressed during a 5+ or 10+ hour race: proper pacing, nutrition, course considerations (elevation, environmental), appropriate recovery, structured workouts. Right now, I am training by myself for IM Muskoka, and while I am confident in my abilities to finish, I know I will not come anywhere close to qualifying for Kona. This is my ultimate goal: to qualify. With the Kona lottery system gone, qualifying is how you make it to that pier. The biggest challenge I have is time, probably like most of us. I come from a swimming background, but with a wife, 2 boys (5.5 & 3), and a baby due in October, I need to get everything I can out of every workout. I feel a coach is able to provide this structure. Most coaching services are online programs with frequent interactions (email, Skype, txt, etc), so you have to be ok with that, or, go to your local tri shop and ask about coaches in the area. Anyway, I think it comes to you motivations. Do you want to participate, or compete? Good luck. |
| 2015-07-04 8:45 AM in reply to: mkerikss |
Member 1487  Scottsdale, AZ | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching I'm training for my first IM (AZ) this November and decided to get a coach. I've done 4 HIM and multiple sprint and OLY races without one and done well. But IM is a whole different race. My biggest thing was that I wanted someone to give me direction so I didn't have to think about it. I'm good about following the canned plans either in books or online, but when something happens (illness, family stuff etc) and you miss some workouts, I just didn't want to stress about how to restructure things to keep it working. Plus I teach a lot of spin classes and wanted that to be included and how to deal with it. Also, I have a tendency to do too much, and having someone else tell me what to do helps to keep me from being overtrained and injured. It's expensive yes, but priceless to me when I'm constantly emailing her or texting regarding questions I have, feedback I need etc. I really like having someone with knowledge to guide me along this journey, vs doing the research on my own. As others have said, depends on what you want. Good luck with your decision and your race! |
| 2015-07-04 1:56 PM in reply to: mkerikss |
| 2 | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching Thank you for your replies, it was very helpful to get a few different perspectives on coaching! Essentially, it seems it comes down to weighing the benefits of improved results when competing rather than completing (which I want to do, eventually), more efficient training (better use of time) and injury prevention against the cost, which I know is substantial. I came into triathlon only this May. I have a running background, and was pretty serious about it, but have been injured so thought I'd give triathlon a shot. I'm only getting back into running just now, so for this season I think I will get a coach (I do have a swim coach, a friend of mine who is a swim coach so it's very good quality for not too much money). However, because I do want to compete, and because of my injury history in running, based on the comments I do think I'll definitely want a coach for next season. Assuming I keep doing triathlon (as opposed to running) and that I can afford it. If anybody else has opinions I would love to hear them as well! |
| 2015-07-04 4:56 PM in reply to: mkerikss |
Master 8247  Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching I don't have a coach, although I have definitely thought about it. I coach myself and am fairly competitive in my AG when I manage to get it together. What holds me back from coaching is the gut feeling that unless I really found the right person and invested a lot of time in the relationship, I feel like I'd probably do a better job of coaching myself. There's also the matter of money--I have a modest income and little job security, and it would be a big investment for what is, really, just a hobby, albeit one I love and am competitive at. I also sometimes feel like training would become a job if someone else were telling me what to do. Crazy, I know--I make my own programs mainly by modifying and combining canned ones, so at some level, I'm still letting someone tell me what to do, but it feels more my own when I write it myself. I ran at a fairly high level in my youth, and also swam competitively, and have been lucky to have some really outstanding coaches, as well as some pretty bad ones. The former have made my expectations for good coaching quite high; the latter have made me really wary of buying into someone's program hook, line, and sinker. In my experience, a lot of coaches have a standard approach/philosophy and make minor modifications depending on the event, athlete's needs and characteristics, etc. That's great if the approach/philosophy fits the athlete, not so great if it doesn't. I've had my fill of coaches who spent more time explaining to me why I don't have the ideal physical makeup for the goal event (too light, not fast/strong enough, etc.) than actually working with me to address weaknesses realistically and maximize the physical and mental strengths that I DO have. Where I feel like a coach would really come in handy is to serve as another pair of eyes to analyze what did/didn't go well in a race or workout, and balancing overall training stress across the three disciplines. I've also struggled throughout my athletic life with taper and peaking at the right time, and I think a good coach would be really helpful with that. |
| 2015-07-05 9:47 AM in reply to: #5126621 |
Extreme Veteran 1648 | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching This is interesting as I actually have a call tonight to talk to a potential coach. For me- I qualified for Xterra USA on an easy course not doing particularly well. But, I am thinking about doing because, why not- it's an easy road trip. We have friends that live there that we've been meaning to visit. That said, if I do it I need to buckle down and I'm not really sure how to train for it. I've never raced with that much climbing and I only have two and a half months to get ready. |
| 2015-07-05 7:36 PM in reply to: Hot Runner |
| 108 | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching Originally posted by Hot Runner I don't have a coach, although I have definitely thought about it. I coach myself and am fairly competitive in my AG when I manage to get it together. What holds me back from coaching is the gut feeling that unless I really found the right person and invested a lot of time in the relationship, I feel like I'd probably do a better job of coaching myself. There's also the matter of money--I have a modest income and little job security, and it would be a big investment for what is, really, just a hobby, albeit one I love and am competitive at. I also sometimes feel like training would become a job if someone else were telling me what to do. Crazy, I know--I make my own programs mainly by modifying and combining canned ones, so at some level, I'm still letting someone tell me what to do, but it feels more my own when I write it myself. Where I feel like a coach would really come in handy is to serve as another pair of eyes to analyze what did/didn't go well in a race or workout, and balancing overall training stress across the three disciplines. I've also struggled throughout my athletic life with taper and peaking at the right time, and I think a good coach would be really helpful with that. agree completely. I don't have so much disposable income to spend money on someone that I don't expect to be of much help either because I'm not good enough, or they don't consider me as an individual. The little things turn me off, like the coach who repeatedly posts that he doesn't care about his finisher medals and throws them all in the kid's toy box. That may be how he feels, but to advertise yourself as a coach while repeatedly belittling the value of the medal to even one person tells me I am not good enough for him and so he would take my money but have disdain for me. I almost signed up for a program a couple years ago after doing well enough on my own to win my AG in a number of shorter races and take second at a 70.3, but after you send them an email saying I want in on your program (supposedly a limited number of slots, and they send a bunch of emails in advance saying, get ready, get ready, registration opening soon) They say they will then call you and discuss your plans, what you are looking for, etc. After all the build-up, they don't make a personal call. Instead, you get a pre-recorded message telling you how great their program is quick, sign up now before the slots are gone and send another email saying spots are almost gone. When I replied to the email saying what happened to talking to someone before I sent my money, they said they have so many people in their program now that they can't call everyone. That tells me one size fits all. I can find that all over the net for free. That said, I went to the tri camp in CO this Spring with Siri Lindley because I knew that Siri would treat me as an individual even though she has the world's best female athlete in her care. Her help was invaluable. Not once did she make me feel like I was not worth her time. It was several thousand for a few days, but if I know I will get real help, I will pay the money. But mostly I doubt I will get what I expect so I won't spend the money. |
| 2015-07-05 8:48 PM in reply to: Dutchcrush |
New user 121 Green Bay, WI | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching I'm a middle of the packer who will probably never win my AG. I did a few sprints and an Olympic over the last couple years without a coach. This year I stepped up to 1/2 and decided to hire a coach. Not because i wanted to win.....but I wanted to just get better. I thought it would allow me to get better faster and be better prepared for my race. I think a coach provides a few benefits 1)first and foremost it provided accountability. Knowing someone was looking over my shoulder made me work longer and harder 2) structure- I love to bike and I hate to run. Without a coach I would gravitate to what I liked doing instead of what I should be doing. 3)variety- mixing in different types of workouts including interval, hills, strength, track. Stuff I typically wasn't doing on my own. 4) a sounding board- fitness, nutrition, form, race strategy, you name it. 5) overall knowledge on variety of topics that I did not know our wouldn't have found without her. Also having someone look at your form and plan race strategy for example. I know it's expensive, but for me I've found it to be worth it so far. I think hiring a coach this year will benefit me for a long time in to the future even after I stop paying to be coached. |
| 2015-07-05 9:38 PM in reply to: Moonrocket |
| 37 | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching I'm relatively new to triathlons, but have been doing running races for awhile. I'm currently self-coaching for my first IM. I've had good success with self-coaching with OLY and HIM distance. I'm also a sports science geeks, and enjoy reading the science and figuring out how to apply it to my training. My interactions with coaches have been a mixed bag... I did hire a coach for swim analysis, which helped dramatically. However, I did check out some group workouts with the coach, but was somewhat unimpressed. For example, there was too much emphasis on short track workouts. I don't need to work on 100-200m repeats 3 months from my IM. The coach also talked about electrolytes and cramp prevention, which is not true. If I were a top AG or trying to kona qualify, I'd probably spend some time to look for a good coach. I'm just a MOP triathlete, so the effort of finding a good coach and paying for one is just not worth it to me. |
| 2015-07-05 9:41 PM in reply to: Nussy |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching True--I think the greatest benefit of the excellent coaches I have had has been the knowledge of solid training principles, technique, etc. that I took away from the experience. Things do change over the years, but from my teens I've had a basic understanding of exercise physiology, swim and run technique, different kinds of training, etc. that I still find useful today and that helps me evaluate different programs and online information when I plan my training. I'm very self-motivated and have always been a pretty disciplined athlete so I don't need a coach as a motivator or cheerleader, but it's hard to acquire that knowledge (particularly when three different sports are involved) independently at a very young age, or as an adult newbie with a full life outside of sports. It's not that a great coach makes himself/herself unnecessary--there's still that function of being another, more objective and experienced perspective to analyze things--but that over time he/she does become less necessary. |
| 2015-07-05 11:33 PM in reply to: Hot Runner |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching Interesting responses across the board. I will chime in with some of my observations of my own and play a little devil's advocate as well I see several people posting that they will not win their AG or they will not do this so they have no need for a coach. This confuses me, first you put a limiter on your potential, then you claim a coach is only worth it if you will win the race or your AG? I have seen several athletes get coaches and reach a level of performance they never thought possible. Some won their AG some didn't but with the help of a coach they accomplished things well beyond their initial expectations. People in search of a coach talk about custom plans for them and only them, but do not describe what a custom plan is. Does that mean each workout is handwritten for you and only you? Or can workouts be taken out of a library of workouts and put into your program at the right time with the appropriate intensity and duration i.e the basics of the workout is the same but the variables change for you? Price seems to be the issue for many, Most coaches range from $100-400 a month depending on who and what you want out of the service. Multiply that by 12 and you have a coach for a year at $1200-$3600. Depending on how much you invest in travel, races, and equipment that cost might be on the low end of triathlete expenses….keyword: MIGHT Time seems to be another limiting reason why people don't hire a coach. I just cannot "invest in all the time training". What if a coach new how to MAXIMIZE your training with what you have to work with? Sometimes its not about how much you do, but doing the most possible in the least amount of time. Others say they don't believe the coaches have the correct training principles, or it didn't seem to work. No matter what plan you buy into whether it is a cookie cutter or a personal program as long as it follows the pattern of super compensation you will get better; Train, induce a stress, recover and adapt, repeat. Every athlete doesn't need the perfect plan, several will work with proper structure. The biggest problem I see with athletes is that they just don't trust their coaches from the beginning. In order for the relationship to be successful communication and trust needs to be on the same page from the get-go. That means goals and expectations on both ends need to be confirmed. The athlete needs to buy into what the coach says and does. That doesn't mean questions can't be asked, just that doubt cannot exist. Cool things I have seen coaches get their athletes to do Athlete A: Got into sport to try something new, no endurance background no idea what to do, never wanted to do an IM, never though he could do it. Fast forward 5 years later and he is going to Kona all while working 40-50 hours a week and raising a family, his first sprint tri he could barely finish the 5k, 5 years ago. Athlete B: Was coached and got burned out wanted to quit the sport all together. Both sat down and re-evualted position and goals in the sport. Athlete decided they were in it for the lifestyle and not the performance side, but is still coached by the same coach and enjoying the sport more then ever. Athlete C: Got into the sport on whim, enjoyed it hired a coach. Wasn't happy in other areas of life, coach came in and helped out. Her coach not only encouraged her to quit the job she hated, but guided her in finding a job she loved. Now is training and working with passion. To summarize, coaches are far more then just program writers, coaches are motivators, role-models, teachers beyond the sport, they are psychologists (not experts), source of inspiration, etc. You can go on and on about what coaches do, but they are far more then program writers as for some reason that is what they are first thought if in the triathlon world. Let's keep this convo going, its a good one! |
| 2015-07-05 11:38 PM in reply to: Dutchcrush |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching Triathlon Research Camp in Boulder? I think the first coach you searched out was one with the large number of athletes where its business is priority over the athlete, or maybe they cater to athletes looking for a different type of coaching. Not all coaches are like that. I could name 30 off the top of my head that will have a personal phone call with you and go over what they will provide to you off the top of my head. PM me if you to challenge me with that list. The camp in Boulder to me seemed odd, but Siri is one of my role-models in the coaching world so it seemed to be a great camp. The whole interviewing for the spot and the cost associated seemed like a money grab, along with their constant emails asking to send in an application, but glad to see you got a lot out of it. Siri is in the top echelon of coaches in triathlon. You want a positive source of motivation and inspiration next to you? Siri is the ONE! She is also uber smart on the coaching athletes part too. Like what she has done with her crew at the pro level. |
| 2015-07-06 12:02 AM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Master 2406 Bellevue, WA | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching Originally posted by bcagle25 The biggest problem I see with athletes is that they just don't trust their coaches from the beginning. In order for the relationship to be successful communication and trust needs to be on the same page from the get-go. That means goals and expectations on both ends need to be confirmed. The athlete needs to buy into what the coach says and does. That doesn't mean questions can't be asked, just that doubt cannot exist. Really? You want to hire a "doubt cannot exist" coach, it's going to cost more than $300 a month. Analogy: this is like hiring a lawyer for your high powered acrimonious divorce, your corporate merger, your hostile takeover. You want a hired gun with a lot of notches on his/her belt. Then you can trust them in the "doubt cannot exist" way you describe. Coaches like that aren't $300 a month. They're coaching Olympic hopefuls, professional triathletes, etc, not age groupers hoping to finish IMAZ in 13 hours this time instead of 15 hours. Otherwise, it's like hiring an electrician, plumber, painter to work on your house. You have a little experience, you could get by as a homeowner doing some of the electrical, plumbing, or painting work, but you know you're not an expert. You could get by following a pre-canned plan, some online plan like BT offers, but you want more. So you want to hire a coach for personalized attention. So you hire one and now it's your right to evaluate if the person you hired is a total idiot or a rock star or something in between. Are you going to get your money's worth? Does this person really have expertise? Is his/her coaching and advice really going to mesh with you and your lifestyle? And on another note, one of the problems with a coach is the "yet another boss in my life" aspect of it. I don't want someone to hold me accountable. I have enough people who are paid to do that already, I just don't have to pay them myself. :-) |
| 2015-07-06 12:40 AM in reply to: 0 |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching Originally posted by brucemorgan Originally posted by bcagle25 The biggest problem I see with athletes is that they just don't trust their coaches from the beginning. In order for the relationship to be successful communication and trust needs to be on the same page from the get-go. That means goals and expectations on both ends need to be confirmed. The athlete needs to buy into what the coach says and does. That doesn't mean questions can't be asked, just that doubt cannot exist. Really? You want to hire a "doubt cannot exist" coach, it's going to cost more than $300 a month. Analogy: this is like hiring a lawyer for your high powered acrimonious divorce, your corporate merger, your hostile takeover. You want a hired gun with a lot of notches on his/her belt. Then you can trust them in the "doubt cannot exist" way you describe. Coaches like that aren't $300 a month. They're coaching Olympic hopefuls, professional triathletes, etc, not age groupers hoping to finish IMAZ in 13 hours this time instead of 15 hours. Otherwise, it's like hiring an electrician, plumber, painter to work on your house. You have a little experience, you could get by as a homeowner doing some of the electrical, plumbing, or painting work, but you know you're not an expert. You could get by following a pre-canned plan, some online plan like BT offers, but you want more. So you want to hire a coach for personalized attention. So you hire one and now it's your right to evaluate if the person you hired is a total idiot or a rock star or something in between. Are you going to get your money's worth? Does this person really have expertise? Is his/her coaching and advice really going to mesh with you and your lifestyle? And on another note, one of the problems with a coach is the "yet another boss in my life" aspect of it. I don't want someone to hold me accountable. I have enough people who are paid to do that already, I just don't have to pay them myself. :-) Hmmm… I think you misunderstood me Doubt cannot exist as in you just buy into the plan. Ask all the questions you want, why I am doing this? What will this do? etc. When you doubt the plan you are not going in 100% and that is where the pitfalls start. And your analogy fails its apples to oranges. Problem with the analogy is that you hire someone to to do job. but with coaches you are working together to execute a plan and accomplish and outcome. If you have doubt that should all be taken care of before hand before you hire someone on. It's about building confidence within the coach based on the scope of your investigation. If you don't have full confidence in your coach beforehand by putting your goals and your dreams in their hands you have already failed step 1. Plenty of coaches under the $300 price tag have been able to get athletes to Kona. You want coaches for olympians, they are FAR more then $300, Pros pay coaches anywhere from 200-1500 from what I have heard. Some get coached for free or even under the price I quoted, but the coach earns a % of their winnings. Why do people see coaches as bosses? This I have never understood and it should never be that way. One thing to hold someone accountable in a negative way, another to help them produce better. I.e. it's not the coach saying, "why didn't you get this bike ride in", that is not coaching. EDIT: Look at all the success in athlete/team and coach. Who are the ones that are most successful, the ones that buy into the coach. Edited by bcagle25 2015-07-06 12:49 AM |
| 2015-07-06 6:45 AM in reply to: mkerikss |
Member 1004 | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching I don't have a coach but have considered it. My problem is that I'm fairly isolated geographically and so getting to see one is a problem. I thought of online coaching but I don't think that can give you the best benefit, especially for a relative newbie like me (this is my third year). My other problem is judging expertise. If I'm going to put out the money for a coach, I would want to know that (s)he was good. It's hard to judge that from online references and I'm too far away for word off mouth. If I did get a coach, it would be only for a short time, 1 - 12 months because I'm an AGer and can't afford one for long term. The reason I would like to get one is because I train alone and I'm sure I've got all sorts of technical errors that could be worked on and I always strive to be the best I can be. |
| 2015-07-06 10:36 AM in reply to: mkerikss |
| Tyler, | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching A Coach can help in the following ways: Be sure to express what you are looking for to your potential coach in your initial interview or consultation.
A Good coach can coach from anywhere with all the modern technology available with the help of the athlete to provide video. A coach should always consult with you and ask a ton of questions getting to you know your background and some personal info. Always ask for a free trial - so you can build the trust between you and your new coach. Never get a coach that makes you pay the last month dues up front or any contract length of time. They may or may not follow through when they say they will call or email you. You also may notice they are providing the same generic sessions to all their athletes. Be careful about a coach who limits communication, but in return always respect your coach's time. I hope this helps.
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| 2015-07-06 10:37 AM in reply to: 0 |
Master 2406 Bellevue, WA | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching Originally posted by bcagle25 Originally posted by brucemorgan Hmmm… I think you misunderstood me Doubt cannot exist as in you just buy into the plan. Ask all the questions you want, why I am doing this? What will this do? etc. When you doubt the plan you are not going in 100% and that is where the pitfalls start. And your analogy fails its apples to oranges. Problem with the analogy is that you hire someone to to do job. but with coaches you are working together to execute a plan and accomplish and outcome. If you have doubt that should all be taken care of before hand before you hire someone on. It's about building confidence within the coach based on the scope of your investigation. If you don't have full confidence in your coach beforehand by putting your goals and your dreams in their hands you have already failed step 1.... Why do people see coaches as bosses? This I have never understood and it should never be that way. One thing to hold someone accountable in a negative way, another to help them produce better. I.e. it's not the coach saying, "why didn't you get this bike ride in", that is not coaching. EDIT: Look at all the success in athlete/team and coach. Who are the ones that are most successful, the ones that buy into the coach. I'm not actually arguing with you that much. I agree with your broad brush strokes, but making a few finer points. You want "trust the plan" that transitively means trust the coach too, which is my point. And yes, while you failed at step 1 if you don't trust the coach you hired, that's not carte blanch trust forever. I'm a big fan of "trust but verify". Things change, what was once trustworthy stops being that, etc. If you've ever hired a lawyer for something non-trivial, I think you'd find it's similar relationship to what you describe - "working together to execute a plan and accomplish an outcome". You can fail to execute on race day or during trial, and all your planning and training goes right out the window. A good boss does exactly what you said. They don't hold their employees accountable in a negative way (unless it comes to that), but instead work with them to produce better. Set shared goals, set execution plans, create development strategies, monitor execution, course correct along the way, etc. The word "coaching" is often used in this context. I am a "boss' BTW at my day job; a people manager and software development team lead. Still there is a boss aspect of it, no matter how positive it is. Some people like to be self-employed even if they've had great positive experiences with prior managers. Same with self-coaching. Edited by brucemorgan 2015-07-06 10:39 AM |
| 2015-07-06 10:57 AM in reply to: brucemorgan |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching I do not have a coach. I am always in the top 10% of the swim, I am usually in the top 15% of the bike, but I don't run so well. I have podium'ed in the past but most of the time I am 1 or 2 away from podium. I'm sure a coach would put me where I need to be to podium much more often, however it comes down to economics. I enjoy the sport and the lifestyle, if I hire a coach to make me better it does not change my economic situation. $1200-$3000 is not a lot for some people but that's my more than my triathlon budget allows. |
| 2015-07-06 12:26 PM in reply to: mike761 |
Extreme Veteran 959 Greenwood, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching Never had a coach but wish I would have used one prior to doing my first IM race last year. I thought I would be fine without a coach from five years of racing (Sprints - HIM). My first IM did not go as I planned. After my IM, I contacted Mike Ricci (D3 Mutlisports writer of some of the BT plans) and he was great providing me with information on what caused some of my issues. I tackled my second IM with a lot more success after talking with Mike. In hindsight, I wished I had hired him as a coach prior to my first IM. Highly recommend Mike to anyone looking for a coach. Great guy and great feedback. |
| 2015-07-06 12:26 PM in reply to: mkerikss |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching Something about these discussions re: to hire a coach or not that is rarely mentioned is the idea of hiring a coach to make the sport more enjoyable. The purchase of multi-thousand dollar bikes is routinely encouraged, because a new bike is fun, so you enjoy training and racing more, not because it makes you significantly faster. But, coach threads always seem to fixate on what's the cost & how much can I improve performance? Many good coaches who work with amateur athletes are there not just to squeeze out more performance in the number of available training hours, but also to make it more fun overall. It's more fun, because there is more variety to the training sessions, you have someone to share the excitement of your achievements with, and you have more confidence when you take on new challenges that you'll succeed and cross the finish vertically and with a smile on your face rather than stumbling across like a zombie, because you and your coach have worked together to put together training and race plans based on their experience, reducing the amount of trial and error on your part. Ultimately, all amateurs do this for fun, so my philosophy is that the fun factor should be considered in all decisions.
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| 2015-07-06 12:52 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
| 88 | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching Originally posted by bcagle25 I see several people posting that they will not win their AG or they will not do this so they have no need for a coach. This confuses me, first you put a limiter on your potential, then you claim a coach is only worth it if you will win the race or your AG? I have seen several athletes get coaches and reach a level of performance they never thought possible. Some won their AG some didn't but with the help of a coach they accomplished things well beyond their initial expectations. Speaking as one of those who will not win my AG, I totally get what you're saying. I suppose I am limiting my potential a bit by not having a coach, but when you get right down to it, I honestly don't feel a coach is right for me for a number of reasons. I'm currently training for a HIM in October, and while this is the main focus of my not-at-work life, like it or not my job has to take priority. I'm working at least 50 hours a week, and have recently had to shuffle work out plans on a weekend to be at work. I enjoy my job so working all the extra hours (40 hours/week is supposed to be the "norm") isn't a big deal for me, but I still would feel almost as if I'm cheating myself out of money every time I missed a workout I paid my coach to set up for me because my job interfered. Then I'd have to tell my coach, "Oh, I missed the workout because of work". I'm sure most coaches would be positive and roll with it, but knowing my luck I'd end up with someone that was all like "Grr, that's not good enough! Stop skipping workouts for your job, tri is your life!" I don't need that in my life. I guess I figure that even if the chances of that happening with a coach are really remote, they don't exist at all if I don't have a coach, so why take the gamble? Another issue I have with getting a coach is that I'm not a people person. I'm not necessarily anti-social (I am married and do have friends, and will talk your ear once I get to know you and find a topic I'm interested in), but I am extremely introverted and I really don't like meeting new people. I get more than enough interaction with other people while I'm at the office working. These days, all of my workouts are done alone because that's what I prefer. I've done group runs and rides before, and was always annoyed that the people there would try to talk to me while I was trying to work out. I guess I just don't want to have to go talk to someone else about my workouts. That said, I understand that this reason is very very personal. Most people don't have the issues with socializing like I do, and I'm aware of this. It's totally a personal thing, but the thought of having to go meet and talk with someone new is one of the biggest factors that's keeping me from getting a coach. |
| 2015-07-06 1:27 PM in reply to: mkerikss |
Veteran 434 Apex, NC | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching I think it's difficult to argue that having a good coach can be a benefit, it's just whether you can find the right coach and whether you can / want to spend the money. I've had a coach for a couple of years. I actually enjoyed creating my training plans but had gotten stale and my progress had slowed. Since then I've hit goals I would not have thought possible for this mid-40s father of 3 with average athletic talent. First it was top 10% AG, then it was podium AG, then win AG at local race, then top 10 AG IM 70.3, then qualify for IM 70.3 worlds. I sincerely believe I wouldn't have made this progress without the coach I have. For me it's been worth the money. |
| 2015-07-06 1:45 PM in reply to: smoom |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching 1. Figure out what your goals are in triathlon 2. Talk to coaches, athletes, friends, and have the most frank conversation about it with the person in the mirror, to see if your goals are reasonable 3. Talk to coaches to see how they plan to help you reach your goals and pick one you believe in 4. Decide if reaching those goals is worth the expense 5. Pay attention to the person you decided to pay, it's why you pay them BONUS ADVICE - no matter what you decide, get a swim coach. Even if you decide to have a triathlon coach....GET A SWIM COACH TOO I could tell you how little 90% (probably really more than that) of triathlon coaches actually know about swimming, but then it wouldn't feel like a bonus.
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| 2015-07-06 1:46 PM in reply to: brucemorgan |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Triathletes' thoughts on coaching Originally posted by brucemorgan Originally posted by bcagle25 Originally posted by brucemorgan Hmmm… I think you misunderstood me Doubt cannot exist as in you just buy into the plan. Ask all the questions you want, why I am doing this? What will this do? etc. When you doubt the plan you are not going in 100% and that is where the pitfalls start. And your analogy fails its apples to oranges. Problem with the analogy is that you hire someone to to do job. but with coaches you are working together to execute a plan and accomplish and outcome. If you have doubt that should all be taken care of before hand before you hire someone on. It's about building confidence within the coach based on the scope of your investigation. If you don't have full confidence in your coach beforehand by putting your goals and your dreams in their hands you have already failed step 1.... Why do people see coaches as bosses? This I have never understood and it should never be that way. One thing to hold someone accountable in a negative way, another to help them produce better. I.e. it's not the coach saying, "why didn't you get this bike ride in", that is not coaching. EDIT: Look at all the success in athlete/team and coach. Who are the ones that are most successful, the ones that buy into the coach. I'm a big fan of "trust but verify". Things change, what was once trustworthy stops being that, etc. If you've ever hired a lawyer for something non-trivial, I think you'd find it's similar relationship to what you describe - "working together to execute a plan and accomplish an outcome". You can fail to execute on race day or during trial, and all your planning and training goes right out the window. I agree with this. You trust someone until they break that trust. If you come up short of a goal, you need to be honest and decide why that might have happened. Did the coach lay out a great plan and the athlete came or short, was it the other way around, or simply did it just not pan out on the day. It's easy to blame coaches for shortcomings, sometimes it is deserved others not. Coaches are humans they make mistakes and are constantly learning through experiences, but if you fail to see gains either in training, racing, enjoyment or whatever long-term that yes maybe you can't trust the coach any longer. If you expect a coach to give you 100% improvement every race then your expectations might be a bit too high. What is failing to execute on race day? You cannot blame the coach for the uncontrollable variables, but if you are lead down the wrong track then yes you can blame the coach and pass on the trust. |
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