Aero wheels - fairings for lighter riders

There are plenty of small riders such as yourself that ride on deep wheels.  It comes down to bike handling.

Do they say that about all aero wheels for someone like you or just between these sets? The lower quality aero wheels, even from a good company, might not be that fast. In which case yeah, a more box type wheel like the Race Lites would be the better buy. I don't know the Zipp 60. That might be the case as these are aluminum brake track wheels, which have received less attention than the Carbon Clinchers have. If they say the Race Lites over something like Zipp 404's or Aeolus 3 or 5 then something is really off in their thinking. Some might not like carbon clinchers, but it's not due to small rider size.

When my daughter was young she was much slower on zipp 404 AND Mavic wheels of similar depth then she was on the bontrager race XL's that came with her madone.  I figured it was because the zipps and mavics were heavier (I don't know if the zipps are but the mavics were) and she was not that strong of a rider at that point in her life. (she was 13 and weighed about 115 lbs.)  Similarly, I am at races all summer long where 13-15 year olds are racing with deep dish rims and some of them, in my mind, have no business on them because they slow the kids down.

No, you're not a kid, but not knowing what kind of cyclist you are, I could see how your LBS gave you that advice.

I'm sure someone is going to come behind this and post how deeper wheels make everyone faster no matter what their cycling level is, but I haven't seen that to be the case in actual application.

One of the LBS here told me way back that latex tubes are only good if you climb mountains, I never went back!

You should be able to ride any 40-60mm wheel without any issues.  A disc cover on the back helps stabilize the bike in crosswinds.  Becoming familiar with handling using a deeper wheel in crosswinds is a learning process.  When I went from my old Felt TTR2 40mm to the FLO 60mm there was a difference but am use to it now.

Originally posted by Leegoocrap

Originally posted by Left Brain

When my daughter was young she was much slower on zipp 404 AND Mavic wheels of similar depth then she was on the bontrager race XL's that came with her madone.  I figured it was because the zipps and mavics were heavier (I don't know if the zipps are but the mavics were) and she was not that strong of a rider at that point in her life. (she was 13 and weighed about 115 lbs.)  Similarly, I am at races all summer long where 13-15 year olds are racing with deep dish rims and some of them, in my mind, have no business on them because they slow the kids down.

No, you're not a kid, but not knowing what kind of cyclist you are, I could see how your LBS gave you that advice.

I'm sure someone is going to come behind this and post how deeper wheels make everyone faster no matter what their cycling level is, but I haven't seen that to be the case in actual application.

can it be me I mean how much weight are we talking here? Some people ride on race wheels loaded with lead I think.

Some of these carbon aero wheels are beating the box wheels in weight now too. Not the case with the pair in the OP though. Might just be what you were thinking before in a smaller rider handling the winds.

Originally posted by Leegoocrap

Originally posted by Left Brain

When my daughter was young she was much slower on zipp 404 AND Mavic wheels of similar depth then she was on the bontrager race XL's that came with her madone.  I figured it was because the zipps and mavics were heavier (I don't know if the zipps are but the mavics were) and she was not that strong of a rider at that point in her life. (she was 13 and weighed about 115 lbs.)  Similarly, I am at races all summer long where 13-15 year olds are racing with deep dish rims and some of them, in my mind, have no business on them because they slow the kids down.

No, you're not a kid, but not knowing what kind of cyclist you are, I could see how your LBS gave you that advice.

I'm sure someone is going to come behind this and post how deeper wheels make everyone faster no matter what their cycling level is, but I haven't seen that to be the case in actual application.

can it be me I mean how much weight are we talking here? Some people ride on race wheels loaded with lead I think.

LOL - It might as well be.  I know what the standard "knowledge" says.......but I also know what we see with kids who don't produce much power and deep dish wheels.  Mostly we just get them off the wheels.  Maybe it has to do with handling as well......but there sure is no benefit for the majority of them.  And no....so far no parent is crazy enough to buy their 13 year old a power meter.....but I'm sure that's next so I'll eventually have some numbers.

What lead you to believe this?  There are a lot of reasons someone can ride slower than normal.  Wind, course terrain, road surface, air density, or just a bad day.  Were you able to isolate all the other variables besides the wheels to draw your conclusion.  

Would you also believe that a heavier, but well fitting triathlon bike would slower than a road bike for smaller riders?  Just trying to understand your angle on why you believe a 58-60 mm set of race wheels would be slower.

HAHA.....I don't have an angle, I just know what we see with some kids.....especially the ones who are slowish....they don't get faster with deeper wheels.  And sometimes, actually frequently, they get slower.  Yeah, we do the same TT course with a group of them just about every Wed. night.  Yes, I know that no two nights are alike, but sometimes they aren't much different around here in the middle of the summer.

But don't worry.....there is no shortage of parents willing to spend 2000.00 for a set of deep wheels for their 11-15 year old who can barely ride as it is.

That would be VERY course dependent with regard to beginner riders.

And why would that be? What variables would you taking into consideration with this?

Ok, so your point is that aerodynamic equipment such as aero wheels or a triathlon bike might not benefit beginner riders who don't have good handling skills.  The type who have trouble reaching down to grab a bottle while riding at 15 mph.  I can buy that.  But the OP is asking the question not from the perspective of bike handling experience but from weight.  Yes there is a learning curve to handling aero wheels but it's not very big.  If you already know how to handle your bike then aero wheels should not slow you down.

ETA:  FWIW my girlfriend used my Zipp 404's (aluminum clinchers) to ride up Haleakala.  It wasn't for aerodynamic advantage (she averaged less than 8 mph), but it was far lighter than any of her training wheels and it already had good tires and latex tubes installed on them.  She weighs less than 120 pounds and she really enjoyed using those wheels.  She PR'd (her 4th time doing it) by over 20 minutes.

The standard ones....you know, hills and turns.

I will stand by the idea that most beginner riders get very little benefit from them.  Likewise, beginner riders who don't weigh much and don't put down much power get even less, if any, benefit from them.  I see it constantly.

Most people would be better served spending their deep wheel money on a cycling coach.

If we are talking about riders without basic handling skills such as riding within 12 inches of another person's wheel, or who brake way more than necessary than I would agree.

What exactly are you seeing?  Light riders with little power who are normally hammering it in the front suddenly struggling on the back when they use race wheels?  Could it be possible that light riders who don't put out much power are still going to be hanging off the back with race wheels, but exerting 10-20 less watts in the process?  Nobody said that race wheels was going to take a weak rider and turn them into a powerful one.

Race wheels are generally the worst bang for buck investment in speed, so not really going to argue with you there.  But it doesn't mean there are no speed gains.

So the aero benefits tend to be outweighed by the bike being more difficult to handle? Could happen. Lots of cross wind with inexperience in bike handling.

I would expand it to investing in training methods, but yes. Wheels can come any time.

And I will answer you two by saying that yes, in a wind tunnel, under perfect conditions, there will always be watts saved with deep wheels.  Unfortunately, nobody ever rides in those conditions and the gains that may be generated by deep wheels are not even close to being worth the expense compared to other cycling upgrades. In the case of people who don't generate much power, I would bet that's even more true......which is probably where the LBS guy was coming from. 

I would say he did the OP a favor rather than trying to sell her something that may potentially be a waste of money.  Yeah, we can all spend our money however we want.....but I like a LBS that is realistic and not greedy.

There are A LOT of people putting out less than 150 watts.....especially smaller and inexperienced riders.

Well the debate is on the degree to which any of these are being taken too, how much of a difference is there with anything that is changed? How much heavier? How much more aero? Aero wheels aren't necessarily heavier than the basic wheels. Jason's set is actually lighter. Aero wheels aren't necessarily that much more aero either. While the wheels in the OP are Zipps, they are not Firecrest or any of the other carbon clinchers now available, so don't know much about them. If they weren't Zipp then many times it would be an easy answer of not being worth the money as they likely won't be much faster, if at all.

You might want to browse through this thread and see what type of speed some guys are putting up at ~150 watts.  

Haha. Randee, I think you're looking at a whole array instead of trying to isolate aero vs not. And think you'd be fine with at least lower profile aero rims. Don't know you'd want the 80mm ones I use in windy conditions though even though I've been fine. There is the possibility of mixing sizes too. Like 40 front and 60 rear. The front is the one that affects handle, and by a considerable margin. Could still stay with the basics if that still makes you nervous, or if mixing sizes will mess with the appearance too much!