General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Swimming goals? Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 2
 
 
2015-08-02 6:55 PM

User image

Regular
134
10025
Oregon
Subject: Swimming goals?
Adult onset swimmer here. I just turned 34 and just learned to swim at age 31. I joined a US Masters swim team mid April of 2015 and I'm seeing some real improvements.

My coach is great. He has given me some goal worksheets and wants me to come up with several goals (he said 6 or 7). I think sometimes he forgets that I don't really know anything about swim culture. I don't know what typical times are or anything. But also, I think he is purposely vague about times and when I nail him down he tells me very ridiculously fast times....like he wants me to shoot for the stars.

So here's where I'm at. I swim 3 days a week with the masters and usually 1 day a week on my own. I usually do 1,400-2,200 meters per workout. I only know freestyle and backstroke. I can do flip turns reasonably well. I'm still slow as hell, I know that but I feel like my form is correct and so I'd rather build speed later off of good form and coach agrees.

Here are some times that I've actually done. They are quite un-impressive

Freestyle:
25m 28.61 seconds
50m 61 seconds
100m 2:42 (*this really seems like it should be faster. but I double checked my records. I'll check again on Monday night)
400m 11:46

Backstroke:
50m 1:22
100m 2:55

OK....so....now please help me cheat on my homework. What kinds of goals should I make? They don't all have to be time/pace based goals either. He said they could be very broad goals and/or very specific goals such as to learn new strokes, compete in so many events, swim a certain distance etc. or swim certain distances in certain times. He comes from a competitive swimming point of view....but says that my goals have to be for my own personal athletic goals. He knows I am a triathlete, but he does not have any specific triathlon coaching experience.

My triathlon goals are to do an olympic distance race, then hopefully a HIM. I doubt I will ever attempt an IM.


2015-08-02 9:46 PM
in reply to: #5132605

User image

Member
622
500100
Franklin, TN
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?
Time goals for the distances you listed are obvious. A couple of additional thoughts...

1) how about a weekly yardage/meters goal of 10-15k..you pick the number. Time in the pool will get you faster.

2) Buy a tempo trainer (the Finis pro model is a good one) and use it to determine your turnover rate. Set a goal to increase your turnover rate (while keeping good form) and use the tempo trainer to do so...a lot.
2015-08-02 10:03 PM
in reply to: JoelO

User image

Regular
134
10025
Oregon
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?
Originally posted by JoelO

Time goals for the distances you listed are obvious. A couple of additional thoughts...

1) how about a weekly yardage/meters goal of 10-15k..you pick the number. Time in the pool will get you faster.

2) Buy a tempo trainer (the Finis pro model is a good one) and use it to determine your turnover rate. Set a goal to increase your turnover rate (while keeping good form) and use the tempo trainer to do so...a lot.


sorry if I sound really dumb here...but what are the obvious time goals for my distances? I honestly don't know what a good time is for someone of my skill level. cutting the times by 50% would that be a good goal?

Can I get turnover data from my garmin watch?
2015-08-02 10:35 PM
in reply to: themissj1981


471
1001001001002525
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?
2.42/100m - your technique obviously needs a lot of work, especially if you're swimming 4 times a week. I'd forget times for now and just concentrate on fixing up issues with your stroke. You might find as you work on your freestyle technique you actually go slower, at first, hence the reason to not worry about the times too much.Once your technique and conditioning has improved and you're getting a bit more consistency to your swimming then start focusing on beating some times.

2015-08-02 10:41 PM
in reply to: themissj1981

User image

Master
8247
50002000100010010025
Eugene, Oregon
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?
Some ideas:

*Pick two or three things to work on with your technique. Be able to hold good form (at least on those points) for a certain distance (like 400m). At the speeds you mention, there are probably still pretty serious issues with your technique. Sorry--being blunt here. I've been swimming since infancy, my best 400m as a master's swimmer isn't much over 6 minutes, and I still have technique issues that I need to work on. Even Olympic swimmers work constantly on refining technique. At your stage, you will still see the greatest swim gains from improvements in form. This is probably true for most people who haven't hit around 2:00/100m for 1500m yet.

*Be able to swim (a reasonable goal) 500m/1000m/1500m (?) continuously with steady pace and best form possible. The goal should be realistic in the short term, and build up to race distance or greater.

*Be able to hold 2:30 pace for a set of 100m repeats with good form. As a long-term goal, 2:00/100m in the pool would probably get you into the middle of the pack in most local races.

*Learn breaststroke. Not absolutely necessary, but I find it's useful as a "rescue stroke" in open water swimming--for example if you need to catch your breath and get your bearings after taking in water (it can happen, even to accomplished swimmers), getting kicked, starting too fast, panicking, or having difficulty sighting in very rough water. Probably once every three or four races, I find myself using a little breaststroke, for one of those reasons (not panic so far, but swallowing water and sighting difficulties in rough surf). People also use backstroke as a "rescue stroke", but it's hard to keep heading accurately along the race course when you're on your back!

*How are you at bilateral breathing and sighting in open water? The former is probably overrated in terms of swim speed/efficiency but it is sometimes really helpful in open water if chop or the need to sight make it difficult to breathe only to one side. Mastering those skills could be useful goals as well.

Hope this helps with homework. It's great that you have a coach who is open to input about your goals.
2015-08-03 8:23 AM
in reply to: themissj1981

User image

Veteran
2297
2000100100252525
Great White North
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?
For the next 6 months...
400m free under 9.00
200m free 4.15
100m free 1.50
50m free 50
25m free 20

50 back 60
100 back 2.20

Finish. 200 I'M and not get DId...


2015-08-03 11:49 AM
in reply to: themissj1981

User image

Member
622
500100
Franklin, TN
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?

Bo has some good time goals for your distances but you won't be hitting those in 6 months.  I'd say your 1st major goal s/b to get down to 2:00 for the 100m free.  Your 2:42 doesn't seem right given that you can swim 50m in 61 secs.  In order to hit 2:00, you should be able to hit 25 secs for 25m and 55 secs for 50m.  As Bo mentioned, 9 minutes for a 400 seems like a good time to shoot for...that's averaging 2:15 per 100.

No, you can't get your turnover rate from your watch.  The Finis tempo trainer ( http://www.swimoutlet.com/p/finis-tempo-trainer-pro-33518/?color=10804  beeps in your ear at whatever rate you adjust it to.  When you adjust the trainer to match your natural stroke cadence, you'll notice a pretty slow turnover, especially compared to Olympic/elite swimmers.  I'm betting that your turnover rate is quite a bit higher than 2 secs  per full stroke cycle (i.e. it takes more than 1 second between the time your right hand hits the water to when it hits the water again).  You want to initially focus on getting to 2 secs per stroke cycle and then work down from there...ideally in the 1.50 ish range.

2015-08-03 12:18 PM
in reply to: themissj1981

User image


1731
100050010010025
Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?
I am definitely not an expert in freestyle, but I am a huge advocate of the form and technique - and I believe it was mentioned before that there could be something with the form that keeps you slower.
Based on my experience with breaststroke, I performed better once my technique improved. So maybe it's worth to have your form evaluated?
Your coach does not see a problem, but maybe you wish to seek second opinion?

Mary
2015-08-03 12:56 PM
in reply to: themissj1981

User image

Champion
7036
5000200025
Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?

Not sure what your coach has in mind, but I would work on getting your 100 time down below 2:00 minutes consistently as a first major milestone.

Again, I don't want to inadvertently contradict your coach, but the way I was coached was to only swim intervals where you maintain good form for the entire distance.  Start with 25's and once you can hold form there, move to 50's etc.  Don't worry about pace or turnover rate for now, just form & technique.

 Remember the old saying:  "Slow is smooth; smooth is fast".   

As your form improves you'll see some improvement in your pace.  The big payoff comes when you can start working on increasing your tempo or turnover rate while still maintaining your technique.  

Good luck,

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

2015-08-03 1:07 PM
in reply to: RedCorvette

User image

Regular
134
10025
Oregon
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?
Originally posted by RedCorvette

Not sure what your coach has in mind, but I would work on getting your 100 time down below 2:00 minutes consistently as a first major milestone.

Again, I don't want to inadvertently contradict your coach, but the way I was coached was to only swim intervals where you maintain good form for the entire distance.  Start with 25's and once you can hold form there, move to 50's etc.  Don't worry about pace or turnover rate for now, just form & technique.

 Remember the old saying:  "Slow is smooth; smooth is fast".   

As your form improves you'll see some improvement in your pace.  The big payoff comes when you can start working on increasing your tempo or turnover rate while still maintaining your technique.  

Good luck,

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 




thanks. I am not too worried about my times...but I just thought I should have a goal in mind to progress towards.

I think my form is generally OK, obviously can always get better. But our team has 2 assistant coaches who are also team-members and former collegiate swimmers, they have both worked with me a bunch as well as the main coach (he does not get in the water, but they do).

In the beginning they were constantly adjusting and critiquing my form and I did almost nothing but drills for 2 months... but lately they are saying my form is OK, but that I need to work on "elongating" more on my easy 100s and a faster turnover on my sprints.

not that I think my form is perfect or anything....just going based on their feedback.
2015-08-03 1:45 PM
in reply to: themissj1981

User image

Champion
7036
5000200025
Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?

Originally posted by themissj1981
Originally posted by RedCorvette

Not sure what your coach has in mind, but I would work on getting your 100 time down below 2:00 minutes consistently as a first major milestone.

Again, I don't want to inadvertently contradict your coach, but the way I was coached was to only swim intervals where you maintain good form for the entire distance.  Start with 25's and once you can hold form there, move to 50's etc.  Don't worry about pace or turnover rate for now, just form & technique.

 Remember the old saying:  "Slow is smooth; smooth is fast".   

As your form improves you'll see some improvement in your pace.  The big payoff comes when you can start working on increasing your tempo or turnover rate while still maintaining your technique.  

Good luck,

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

thanks. I am not too worried about my times...but I just thought I should have a goal in mind to progress towards. I think my form is generally OK, obviously can always get better. But our team has 2 assistant coaches who are also team-members and former collegiate swimmers, they have both worked with me a bunch as well as the main coach (he does not get in the water, but they do). In the beginning they were constantly adjusting and critiquing my form and I did almost nothing but drills for 2 months... but lately they are saying my form is OK, but that I need to work on "elongating" more on my easy 100s and a faster turnover on my sprints. not that I think my form is perfect or anything....just going based on their feedback.

Sounds like you're in good hands with your coaches.  No substitute for having a set of eyes on you from the deck to give you immediate feedback.

Keep at it.

Good luck,

Mark



2015-08-04 3:31 PM
in reply to: RedCorvette

User image

Regular
134
10025
Oregon
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?
timed myself last night. fastest I could do 100 freestyle was 2:41 and that was with considerable effort.

What I noticed was that for the first 50 everything is fine and I feel like I'm keeping a decent pace, and typically breathe every 3-4 strokes. the next 25 start to get really tough and I can feel myself slowing down, and I start bilateral breathing every 3rd stroke. the final 25 I feel like I'm barely gonna make it. I switch to breathing every 2 strokes and I can tell that I slow WAAAAAY down on the final 25 (probably from so much breathing?....and just exhaustion).

my 25 sprints were still coming in around 28-29 seconds...those don't feel that hard. I mean, I can't figure out how to go any faster but I don't suffer nearly as much as the final 25 in a 100.


2015-08-04 3:41 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Regular
134
10025
Oregon
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?
Here is my first crack at a set of goals

Goal #1 Attend 90% of practices and be ready to go at least 5 minutes early to allow for stretching and questions/goals review

Goal #2 Be able to swim 10x 100m with 2:30 send offs by the end of 2015

Goal #3 Be able to swim 500m continuosly by the end of 2015 (working up to 1,500 by June 2016 for first Olympic race)

Goal #4 something related to form....but I'm still unsure what to pick. Any form errors that I am aware of I am correcting as I go. so, currently I am unaware of form errors (though I'm positive they are there). For now I might just say "elongate" as in really reaching out my lead shoulder

Goal #5 Learn breaststroke

Goal #6 Be able to sprint a single 100 freestyle in 2:15 by the end of 2015

Goal #7 backstroke 100m in 2:30 by the end of the year.


Please feel free to critique, especially if I'm not being aggressive enough, or if I'm being overly optimistic about a certain target.

Edited by themissj1981 2015-08-04 3:42 PM
2015-08-04 3:47 PM
in reply to: themissj1981

User image


1731
100050010010025
Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?
I think I would focus more on the form rather than time goals. Your form may be good for the first 25 m, but apparently there is something going on after every 25 that follows.
I would work on maintaining proper technique over longer distance and then speeding up
Mary
2015-08-04 3:49 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Extreme Veteran
5722
5000500100100
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?
Originally posted by themissj1981
Goal #2 Be able to swim 10x 100m with 2:30 send offs by the end of 2015
Goal #6 Be able to sprint a single 100 freestyle in 2:15 by the end of 2015


If 2:15 is your all out sprint time, doing it 10x with 15s rest may be tough.

If you can, participate in masters swim meets
I would drop goal #4. It's not measurable

Edited by marcag 2015-08-04 3:52 PM
2015-08-04 3:55 PM
in reply to: 0

User image


1731
100050010010025
Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?
I found this posted by StartingOld in another thread (2/23/2006):

"Last November I could barely swim a 100 yards (an aerobic limitation), today I swam 1 mile (70 laps), and comfortably at a 2:10/100 pace.
I want to thank Terry Laughton and his great TI book for showing me the way (balance!). His approach to swimming and his advice on training have really helped me to improve my fitness in all three sports.
A huge thing I learned from Terry was to not swim any further than keeping proper form will allow. As soon as you feel your form start to go to crap because you are getting tired, stop and rest long enough to be able to recover your form. I just can't emphasize enough how important this has been for me to achieve my goal."

Edited by marysia83 2015-08-04 3:56 PM


2015-08-04 3:57 PM
in reply to: marcag

User image

Pro
15655
5000500050005001002525
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?

I would keep #4.....but I would change it to being able to articulate what your form problems are.  If you don't know what they are, you can't fix them.  For the time being, you will have to actively think about your form and what you are doing right and wrong in order to clean it up.  If you can't even name what the problems are (and there are many of them) then you can't even start with fixing the issues.  Once you can name them, you work on one at a time.

2015-08-04 4:47 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image

Member
622
500100
Franklin, TN
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?

I think she needs to video her swim and maybe we could help articulate the form goals for the coming year.

I think it's interesting that her 100m time degrades so much off the 50m time.  I would think a 61 sec 50m would translate to around 2:15 for the 100m.  To me, it sounds like there's both aerobic conditioning & form issues.  Goals addressing both of these would be worthwhile.  An aerobic conditioning goal could be volume based (min of 1500m per workout with 10-20% of that kicking) or time based (execute 10x50m on 1:15).

2015-08-04 5:01 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image

Master
1324
1000100100100
Rochester, NY
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?

I agree with LB here.  Get help on identifying form issues and then work on them.  Setting time goals right now doesn't make sense.  Set technique goals.

2015-08-04 5:06 PM
in reply to: Ridgelake

User image

Extreme Veteran
5722
5000500100100
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?
Originally posted by Ridgelake

I agree with LB here.  Get help on identifying form issues and then work on them.  Setting time goals right now doesn't make sense.  Set technique goals.




Can you give an example of what a technique goal would be ?
2015-08-04 5:17 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Regular
134
10025
Oregon
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by themissj1981
Goal #2 Be able to swim 10x 100m with 2:30 send offs by the end of 2015
Goal #6 Be able to sprint a single 100 freestyle in 2:15 by the end of 2015


If 2:15 is your all out sprint time, doing it 10x with 15s rest may be tough.

If you can, participate in masters swim meets
I would drop goal #4. It's not measurable


thanks for all the feedback guys!

with regards to this quote....do you think I should aim for a faster single sprint? something like 2:00? or should I allow more rest time in my 10x100s? (it's obviously easier to send off on the top or bottom is why I picked that). or should I shoot for maybe 4x100 with 2:30 send offs?

Oh, and I am competing in a master's swim meet on 8-21-15 and I'm terrified!

it's a 50m pool
I'm doing the 50m back, 100back, 50 free and 100 free as well as our "B" team medley relay.

I'm sure I will be last place in each event...I can live with that, I'm just scared that I will DQ our relay team by making some rookie mistake.

Edited by themissj1981 2015-08-04 5:21 PM


2015-08-04 5:25 PM
in reply to: marcag

User image

Master
1324
1000100100100
Rochester, NY
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Ridgelake

I agree with LB here.  Get help on identifying form issues and then work on them.  Setting time goals right now doesn't make sense.  Set technique goals.

Can you give an example of what a technique goal would be ?

Body position, catch, head position, tempo, bilateral breathing, ankle flexibility, to name a few.  Everyone is different.  That's why a trained eye is so important.

2015-08-04 5:34 PM
in reply to: marcag

User image

Pro
15655
5000500050005001002525
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Ridgelake

I agree with LB here.  Get help on identifying form issues and then work on them.  Setting time goals right now doesn't make sense.  Set technique goals.

Can you give an example of what a technique goal would be ?

The other poster got it right.  When people learn to swim properly they don't swim for time.  If she is swimming a 2:47 100 then there are huge issues to fix before worrying about time.  Time will drop when the form issues are cleaned up some.  Body position, catch, pull, breathing, kick, streamline, etc.  These are all parts of a swim that the OP doesn't do well at all.  Yu can't be a swimmer and hope to drop any meaningful time without learning those components.

2015-08-04 5:43 PM
in reply to: themissj1981

User image

Pro
6520
50001000500
Bellingham, WA
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?

Originally posted by themissj1981 timed myself last night. fastest I could do 100 freestyle was 2:41 and that was with considerable effort. What I noticed was that for the first 50 everything is fine and I feel like I'm keeping a decent pace, and typically breathe every 3-4 strokes. the next 25 start to get really tough and I can feel myself slowing down, and I start bilateral breathing every 3rd stroke. the final 25 I feel like I'm barely gonna make it. I switch to breathing every 2 strokes and I can tell that I slow WAAAAAY down on the final 25 (probably from so much breathing?....and just exhaustion). my 25 sprints were still coming in around 28-29 seconds...those don't feel that hard. I mean, I can't figure out how to go any faster but I don't suffer nearly as much as the final 25 in a 100.

Hmm, I'm wondering if you are not breathing enough early and getting into debt that compounds in the latter lengths.  Breathing every four strokes at this stage of the game seems pretty aggressive to me.  Even every three strokes may be a bit much until aerobic capacity increases and comfort with greater continuous distances.  Just for kicks why don't you try a 100 breathing every other stroke and see if you are as gassed at the end.

2015-08-04 5:54 PM
in reply to: themissj1981

User image

Extreme Veteran
5722
5000500100100
Subject: RE: Swimming goals?
Originally posted by themissj1981

Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by themissj1981
Goal #2 Be able to swim 10x 100m with 2:30 send offs by the end of 2015
Goal #6 Be able to sprint a single 100 freestyle in 2:15 by the end of 2015


If 2:15 is your all out sprint time, doing it 10x with 15s rest may be tough.

If you can, participate in masters swim meets
I would drop goal #4. It's not measurable


thanks for all the feedback guys!

with regards to this quote....do you think I should aim for a faster single sprint? something like 2:00? or should I allow more rest time in my 10x100s? (it's obviously easier to send off on the top or bottom is why I picked that). or should I shoot for maybe 4x100 with 2:30 send offs?

Oh, and I am competing in a master's swim meet on 8-21-15 and I'm terrified!

it's a 50m pool
I'm doing the 50m back, 100back, 50 free and 100 free as well as our "B" team medley relay.

I'm sure I will be last place in each event...I can live with that, I'm just scared that I will DQ our relay team by making some rookie mistake.


So for the 2nd part, congratulations. Swim meets are good. They allow you to measure progress and when part of a team they create a social atmosphere which leads to what should be your #1 objective : want to go to swim practice.

For the first part yes, I would set a more aggressive 100m target.









New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Swimming goals? Rss Feed  
 
 
of 2
 
 
RELATED POSTS

Finally made a swimming goal!!!

Started by GaryRM
Views: 975 Posts: 8

2010-09-29 11:48 PM AdventureBear

Realistic swim goal?

Started by Bioteknik
Views: 555 Posts: 2

2009-11-18 10:57 AM JorgeM

Double Swimming Goal!

Started by DeannaS
Views: 1004 Posts: 13

2006-04-18 2:40 PM marina

A swim goal, observation, and thank you

Started by StartingOld
Views: 1022 Posts: 9

2006-02-23 7:02 PM southernaquagoddess

Swim Goals

Started by teechur
Views: 963 Posts: 8

2004-04-18 1:56 PM teechur
RELATED ARTICLES
date : September 9, 2010
author : jasongootman
comments : 0
From simple time-trial testing or past performance, you can appropriately set your race goals for your upcoming races.
 
date : April 8, 2010
author : Team BT
comments : 0
Create goals to help you train and lose weight. Our logger will automatically update your goals.
date : March 20, 2007
author : Ontherun
comments : 1
Making goals achievable is an important part of reaching our end goal. Also, having a bar that is set high is important, so we are always striving for something better.
 
date : September 3, 2005
author : bflrich
comments : 0
You’re probably not going to get it just right immediately. Like always, just do the best you can and keep on keeping on. Don’t get upset if you don’t hit the target every time.
date : March 21, 2005
author : Ontherun
comments : 0
Until last year an Ironman was just a dream. Now it has become a goal. I needed to start, but where?
 
date : January 10, 2005
author : ewkfit
comments : 0
My training was taking off. I had never felt stronger. I was making bigger strides than I ever had. I was stronger and faster than I had imagined myself ever being.
date : October 31, 2004
author : tmwelshy
comments : 0
To prevent a mental breakdown before you even get to the starting line, use the winter months to set goals, build your base, vary your workouts, cut back on training and throw in some variety.
 
date : September 4, 2004
author : anchorage84
comments : 0
New Years Resolutions that Last - How to make them and keep them