Length to 1sr HIM and Im

My first race was in an April and I did my first HIM the following November.  Did a second HIM the next April then my first IM the November after that.

So 7 months after my first race to do an HIM and 19 months after my first race to do  an IM.  (with plenty of shorter races in between)

I probably would say on hind sight that I rushed it.  But hell, it's what I wanted to do, I suffered no injuries, and had fun.  so no harm done.  I just could have performed better had I built more of a base.  I constantly got better in HIM's and IM's after that.

First tri in 2009

First 70.3 in 2010

First IM in 2010 (about 7 months after first 70.3)

Still have never done a standalone 13.1 or 26.2.

Ran a half marathon after attempting the HIM and IM. Didn't really train specifically for it, just used the run fitness I had and went for it.

More and more, finding it funny how people think they have to run marathons for the IM. Not just run long, but race one. Or even some. Seems to become more prominent as the distance goes up too. Haven't heard so much about people getting into time trials for the bike. Same with swim races. It's always the marathon.

First race in 2009, first IM in 2012, first HIM in 2013 (yes you read that right).  I think I did one HM prior to the IM and a couple since then.  I have no desire to do a marathon - ever.

Run your next HM fast enough, and you might start looking at BQ times...

Generally, I like to see athletes complete at least a season and a half of racing before taking on a HIM.  That usually means about 2 years of year-round training to get to that point.  So, in North America, say someone starts training in January (New Years resolution).  They complete their first sprint tri in the spring.  Do a couple more sprints and an Oly or two that year.  Train throughout the following winter, then do a couple more sprints and Oly's the next year, culminating with a HIM later that season.

Another year after that, and they can be prepared for an IM.

IMO, HM's and full marathons aren't necessary for a triathlete.  Of course the training is helpful physiologically, and to learn how to pace longer events in general, but a marathon does little to prepare a triathlete specifically for the IM run.  The only thing those two runs have in common is the distance.

I think racing a full marathon is not a bad idea prior to doing an IM.  I've never done either, but am seriously starting to think about a marathon next year, and ramping up my running over the next 6-8 months so I can conservatively build the mileage before a focused training block.  In the back of my head this also goes to building a further running base that I could use if I do a full IM.  I just look at it as another piece of the puzzle if you have a long term outlook.  To your point though - you don't have to run one before an IM.  Oh, and I like the idea of TT's for the bike - looking at doing some local ones next year if they are early enough in the season so I can test FTP/CP in a "race" setting.

OP - did my first HIM at the end of my second full year of Tri's (had done 2 try a tri's before that).  Tough course, and I found out I wasn't nearly as prepared as I thought I was.  The distances aren't going anywhere, and there is a lot to be said for learning to race short course first before stepping up to long course.

1st tri (sprint) was in 2011

1st HM also in 2011

Oly in 2012

HIM: attempted in 2012, DNF due to underestimating the distance and struggled through the bike.  

HIM: completed in 2013, and have since done 2 per year.

IM 1st will be in 2016, so basically a 5 year plan to get to Ironman which was my goal starting out as I wanted to do an Ironman the year I turn 40.   

And I have absolutely no desire to run a standalone full Marathon!

To be honest... running is rarely the problem with an Ironman.  Cycling fitness, pacing, and race execution are the usual reasons a race can go from successful to awful in the blink of an eye.  You can be the greatest runner on the planet but if you go into an Ironman undertrained on the bike, and/or booger your pacing, and/or booger your race execution... you'll walk most of the IM marathon.  Run training doesn't mean sh*t if you can't ride a bike or execute a race well.

True for me. And not really specific to Ironman.  I started out running and didn't know how to swim at all. So i only really did marathons before only because that was what I was doing. I wasn't into tri. My long distance running really has no bearing on the progression to triathlon. It was learning to swim and be comfortable in the water that I spent time before moving to long distance tri. 

I did HM and Marathons  when i was running only - my first Marathon in 2006. I did swim lesson in 2008, then did short distance tris in 2009 and did a HIM in 2010. The swim was still dicey for me at that point but I was pretty determined, apparently.  I did an IM in 2012.  

I agree that a solid running base will never hurt. And it is great to have the run be strong leg of the race since it's the one that you finish with. But you don't have to run marathons to get that. 

Neil, you're conflating several things about running. Others addressed being able to swim and bike well enough beforehand, so what you want to do is become a better runner. You don't have to actually run the marathons to do that. Many can see their running improve by going for a marathon, but that's simply because they will most likely put in more miles running than they have been doing. Your run can improve even more if you take those miles and redistribute them so that the plan isn't so long run heavy.

I get what you're saying Ben.  I just found that for me (n=1), I start to break down a bit as the run gets longer.  Shorter, more consistent runs are certainly key to building a solid base, but I do "feel" that the long run has it's place.  Part of that is not only physical, but it's also mental - again, that's for me.

Agree 100% with this.  The point I was aiming for is that training for a marathon can be used as a goal to help build that running base - as Ben pointed out, there are other (perhaps better ways) of building that running base  -that base can be used for a future IM.  The intent was not to say you would train for a marathon the same as an IM marathon or that you would run them the same way.

Originally posted by marysia83 Thank you sooo much for this discussion. I had a huge fear that the only thing that would stop me for training for IM was this ...awful... marathon race! Mary

Oh, that's the least of your worries...you should be more concerned about the sharks during the swim.  

Personally, I've actually never run a standalone marathon, and have only run 2 standalone HM's.  It's not an issue.

I believe the LR has its place too. The issue comes in with the various marathon plans. The LR can be 40-55% of the the weekly volume. And on a regular basis. That's just too much to be doing all the time. I know Ultra folks may do it, but more as part of the race build, not an over the winter build that is more general training. You can still have a longer run in the general training, just don't get carried away with it. Divide up the miles better for the run focus period, then during the race build push on the aspects more specific to that. For a longer race, the long run is probably going to be one thing that is pushed out farther.

First marathon in 2009 and also 2010, and 2011.
First tri in 2010.
First half marathon in 2010, and then again in 2012.
First HIM in 2011, and also 2012 and 2013.
First and only IM in 2013.

Triathlons simply come down to swim fitness, bike fitness, and run fitness...then executing a pacing plan.  I would say the shorter the races are, the more similar the stand alone races apply.  Such as an open 1.5k swim, 10k run race or a 40k TT compared to an Oly tri.  Once you get to the HIM and IM distances though...the single sport race distances don't apply as much as just pure fitness...for me anyway.  There is nothing about a open marathon that is similar to an IM run other than the 26.2 mile distance.  They are completely different.