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2015-09-29 7:59 PM

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Subject: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?
My new road bike came with toe cages that I detached while getting used to the feel of the road bike versus my old hybrid. Now that I am more comfortable with the new bike I think I would be ready to try the toe cages. But first a question... would I really gain some speed just by using the toe clips than not? Is it more dangerous than pedaling without your foot being somehow attached to the pedal? I worry that if I need to get my foot off the pedal in a hurry that having the cages could be a hazard. Or am I just being a fearful girl??


2015-09-29 9:31 PM
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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?
I think cage clips are too dangerous for the reason you said-- it's hard to get out of them quickly. They aren't even allowed in races in Canada.

Better to get the more one of the more modern "clipless" systems-- which is kind of a misnomer because you are clipped in but there are no cages.

Edited by jennifer_runs 2015-09-29 9:32 PM
2015-09-29 9:31 PM
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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?
if you really mean cages - yes, more dangerous than speed gained if you strap in tight. dont do it unless leaving loose enough to pull out easily.
2015-09-30 7:19 AM
in reply to: jennifer_runs

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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?
Originally posted by jennifer_runs

I think cage clips are too dangerous for the reason you said-- it's hard to get out of them quickly. They aren't even allowed in races in Canada.

Better to get the more one of the more modern "clipless" systems-- which is kind of a misnomer because you are clipped in but there are no cages.


Thanks Jennifer - how are the clipless less hazardous than the cages though?
2015-09-30 7:21 AM
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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?
This is a hard one for a lot of triathletes and cyclists to swallow, and I'll probably get accused of forcing my opinion and being old school, but here it is:

Toe clips and modern clipless pedals add essentially zero speed or power. Since the concepts of pedaling circles, pulling up, scraping mud etc, etc, are all bunk science, we are left with the very natural pushing motion. Being attached to the pedals does nothing there.

Ok, ok, I see the question...."Well then why does every pro cyclist clip in?". Because they attack, sprint and dont want their feet fallingt off the pedals at critical moments. And cycling myth and lore is strong. At times of max power, indeed we do pull up and attempt tpo power evfery part of the stroe. These situations are brief and rare and do not really factor into steady state riding such as in a triathlon.

The one reason relevent here is the feet slipping off the pedals.

Anyone not comfortable with toe clips or clipping in should NOT do those things until you get completely comfortable simple riding the bike. Flat pedals and runnig shoes are fine. Master the bike, then if you want, get yourself the pedal system of your choice and practice on the trainer a few times and maybe on a flat grassy field a few times and then an empty parking lot. You WILL fall over, once or twice.

Edited by Finding Freestyle 2015-09-30 7:25 AM
2015-09-30 7:40 AM
in reply to: Caroleena

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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?
Originally posted by Caroleena

Originally posted by jennifer_runs

I think cage clips are too dangerous for the reason you said-- it's hard to get out of them quickly. They aren't even allowed in races in Canada.

Better to get the more one of the more modern "clipless" systems-- which is kind of a misnomer because you are clipped in but there are no cages.


Thanks Jennifer - how are the clipless less hazardous than the cages though?


With clipless pedals your feet unclip with a twist of the foot. This happens very quickly( more natural because you want you foot to go sideways off the pedal to stand ), vs the cages where you foot is trapped and has to go backward to get out.


2015-09-30 7:55 AM
in reply to: Finding Freestyle

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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?
Originally posted by Finding Freestyle

This is a hard one for a lot of triathletes and cyclists to swallow, and I'll probably get accused of forcing my opinion and being old school, but here it is:

Toe clips and modern clipless pedals add essentially zero speed or power. Since the concepts of pedaling circles, pulling up, scraping mud etc, etc, are all bunk science, we are left with the very natural pushing motion. Being attached to the pedals does nothing there.



You're not old school

I fast forwarded to the conclusions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=385&v=CNedIJBZpgM

You can rewind for the full test but you know it's real science because they have british accents


2015-09-30 8:17 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by Finding Freestyle

This is a hard one for a lot of triathletes and cyclists to swallow, and I'll probably get accused of forcing my opinion and being old school, but here it is:

Toe clips and modern clipless pedals add essentially zero speed or power. Since the concepts of pedaling circles, pulling up, scraping mud etc, etc, are all bunk science, we are left with the very natural pushing motion. Being attached to the pedals does nothing there.



You're not old school

I fast forwarded to the conclusions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=385&v=CNedIJBZpgM

You can rewind for the full test but you know it's real science because they have british accents





Can confirm....my husband has an English accent and people here in the States will believe pretty much anything he says. Unless he uses his native East London accent, then apparently he sounds "dangerous and sexy." Works really well for getting discounts on things!

But thanks for sharing the video! I've been considering taking the clipless pedals off my old road bike in favor of platforms, because bike handling is still really new for me. Good to know I wouldn't be sacrificing!
2015-09-30 9:58 AM
in reply to: Atlantia

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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?

Originally posted by Atlantia
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Finding Freestyle This is a hard one for a lot of triathletes and cyclists to swallow, and I'll probably get accused of forcing my opinion and being old school, but here it is: Toe clips and modern clipless pedals add essentially zero speed or power. Since the concepts of pedaling circles, pulling up, scraping mud etc, etc, are all bunk science, we are left with the very natural pushing motion. Being attached to the pedals does nothing there.
You're not old school I fast forwarded to the conclusions https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=385&v=CNedIJBZpgMYou can rewind for the full test but you know it's real science because they have british accents
Can confirm....my husband has an English accent and people here in the States will believe pretty much anything he says. Unless he uses his native East London accent, then apparently he sounds "dangerous and sexy." Works really well for getting discounts on things! But thanks for sharing the video! I've been considering taking the clipless pedals off my old road bike in favor of platforms, because bike handling is still really new for me. Good to know I wouldn't be sacrificing!
For some reason watching that video I can't get Jimmy Fallon and Mick Jagger doing the mirror skit out of my head!

If you ever hit an obstacle riding a bike without your feet secured on the pedals bad things can happen in the groin region, I can recall all to well that happening as a kid!!! 

I personally feel so much more connected to the bike when I'm clipped in. I would never go back to not using a "clipless" setup on any bike.  I took me about 5 minutes of practicing unclipping the pedals to get the hang of it, then I practiced a lot doing it until it was natural for BOTH feet.

2015-09-30 10:08 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by Caroleena
Originally posted by jennifer_runs I think cage clips are too dangerous for the reason you said-- it's hard to get out of them quickly. They aren't even allowed in races in Canada. Better to get the more one of the more modern "clipless" systems-- which is kind of a misnomer because you are clipped in but there are no cages.
Thanks Jennifer - how are the clipless less hazardous than the cages though?
With clipless pedals your feet unclip with a twist of the foot. This happens very quickly( more natural because you want you foot to go sideways off the pedal to stand ), vs the cages where you foot is trapped and has to go backward to get out.

Going real old school (and showing my age):  Back in the 60's cycling shoes had "cleats" that fit down into the pedals before you tightened the straps of the toe clips.  You couldn't just pull your foot straight back out, you had to first reach down and  loosen the strap so you could lift the cleats up and out of the pedal and then back out of the toe clip.   I remember going down a few times on my old Schwinn Paramount  and being tangled up on the ground with my shoes still firmly strapped to the bike.  That could be really scary and I was always glad not to get seriously hurt.

Fortunately I've only had one bad crash in the past ten years, but in that situation both shoes popped right out of the clipless pedals when I hit the deck while going about 20 mph.  

Mark

2015-09-30 10:38 AM
in reply to: RedCorvette

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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?
Originally posted by RedCorvette

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by Caroleena
Originally posted by jennifer_runs I think cage clips are too dangerous for the reason you said-- it's hard to get out of them quickly. They aren't even allowed in races in Canada. Better to get the more one of the more modern "clipless" systems-- which is kind of a misnomer because you are clipped in but there are no cages.
Thanks Jennifer - how are the clipless less hazardous than the cages though?
With clipless pedals your feet unclip with a twist of the foot. This happens very quickly( more natural because you want you foot to go sideways off the pedal to stand ), vs the cages where you foot is trapped and has to go backward to get out.

Going real old school (and showing my age):  Back in the 60's cycling shoes had "cleats" that fit down into the pedals before you tightened the straps of the toe clips.  You couldn't just pull your foot straight back out, you had to first reach down and  loosen the strap so you could lift the cleats up and out of the pedal and then back out of the toe clip.   I remember going down a few times on my old Schwinn Paramount  and being tangled up on the ground with my shoes still firmly strapped to the bike.  That could be really scary and I was always glad not to get seriously hurt.

Fortunately I've only had one bad crash in the past ten years, but in that situation both shoes popped right out of the clipless pedals when I hit the deck while going about 20 mph.  

Mark




That REALLY sounds scary.....
Mary


2015-09-30 11:00 AM
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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?

Yeah, it's no biggie to avoid the clipless system thing until you've gotten more comfortable on your bike. I was super scared when i got my first road bike - i really just needed to get comfortable on the skinny tires, the forward position and going faster, etc. But after one season of riding i got the shoes and pedals and first used them on the trainer so i could get used to the motion of clipping out.

My only falls so far have been when i wasn't planning to stop and ended up at very slow speed, and occasionally embarrassing as one was in front of a busy starbucks with people sitting outside.

Anyway, not sure if they really make me faster but I definitely feel more powerful on the hills and climbing 

 



Edited by juniperjen 2015-09-30 11:01 AM
2015-09-30 12:07 PM
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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by Caroleena
Originally posted by jennifer_runs I think cage clips are too dangerous for the reason you said-- it's hard to get out of them quickly. They aren't even allowed in races in Canada. Better to get the more one of the more modern "clipless" systems-- which is kind of a misnomer because you are clipped in but there are no cages.
Thanks Jennifer - how are the clipless less hazardous than the cages though?
With clipless pedals your feet unclip with a twist of the foot. This happens very quickly( more natural because you want you foot to go sideways off the pedal to stand ), vs the cages where you foot is trapped and has to go backward to get out.

 

This hasn't been a problem for me.  I use toe clips and to get my feet out I can either twist my foot to the side which will loosen the straps or just pull my feet straight back and they slide right out.  

I had a sharp turn sneak up on me once and wasn't paying attention until it was too late and ended up off the road in high grass and soft sand.  I didn't have to think about how I was going to get my feet out.  My natural reaction got them out just fine.  I never have had me feet stuck in a toe clips.  If you push forward your feet stay in.  If you pull straight back your feet slide out, if you twist to either side the strap loosens.  

If you don't tie your shoe laces yes, everyone says you will trip and fall, but how many times have your really trips over untied shoe laces and fallen? You have to be slightly accident prone and slightly uncoordinated for that to happen.  I feel it is the same way with toe clips.  Everyone says your feet will get stuck but unless you are slightly uncoordinated and accident prone, then that rarely happens and rally not a concern for you.  

 

I am happy with mine toe clips.  They keep my feet in the right place on the pedal, keep my foot from sliding off, and keep my foot in constant contact with the pedal. 

 

I had the opportunity to borrow a rode bike some 7-8 years ago for an event.  I could have used the bike shoes and clipless pedals but i was told these is a bit of a learning curve to them and I would be better off to just use toe clips.  So I changed out the pedals and used the toes clips as I was advised. 

 

 



Edited by BlueBoy26 2015-09-30 12:08 PM
2015-09-30 12:17 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?

In addition to keeping one's foot on the pedal when standing, etc, I also like being able to pull the pedal up into a desireable position when I am stopped, so I can pedal away quickly.  I have one bike where I wear regular shoes and it's a total bummer to get going from stopped.

For those new to/skittish of being "clipped in", you CAN loosen the tension on the pedal to making clipping out easier. I use very little tension and still see the benefits of being attached to my pedal.  I am speaking specifically of "clipless" systems.   

2015-09-30 12:36 PM
in reply to: BlueBoy26

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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?

Originally posted by BlueBoy26

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by Caroleena
Originally posted by jennifer_runs I think cage clips are too dangerous for the reason you said-- it's hard to get out of them quickly. They aren't even allowed in races in Canada. Better to get the more one of the more modern "clipless" systems-- which is kind of a misnomer because you are clipped in but there are no cages.
Thanks Jennifer - how are the clipless less hazardous than the cages though?
With clipless pedals your feet unclip with a twist of the foot. This happens very quickly( more natural because you want you foot to go sideways off the pedal to stand ), vs the cages where you foot is trapped and has to go backward to get out.

 This hasn't been a problem for me.  I use toe clips and to get my feet out I can either twist my foot to the side which will loosen the straps or just pull my feet straight back and they slide right out.  

I had a sharp turn sneak up on me once and wasn't paying attention until it was too late and ended up off the road in high grass and soft sand.  I didn't have to think about how I was going to get my feet out.  My natural reaction got them out just fine.  I never have had me feet stuck in a toe clips.  If you push forward your feet stay in.  If you pull straight back your feet slide out, if you twist to either side the strap loosens.  

If you don't tie your shoe laces yes, everyone says you will trip and fall, but how many times have your really trips over untied shoe laces and fallen? You have to be slightly accident prone and slightly uncoordinated for that to happen.  I feel it is the same way with toe clips.  Everyone says your feet will get stuck but unless you are slightly uncoordinated and accident prone, then that rarely happens and rally not a concern for you.  

 I am happy with mine toe clips.  They keep my feet in the right place on the pedal, keep my foot from sliding off, and keep my foot in constant contact with the pedal. 

 I had the opportunity to borrow a rode bike some 7-8 years ago for an event.  I could have used the bike shoes and clipless pedals but i was told these is a bit of a learning curve to them and I would be better off to just use toe clips.  So I changed out the pedals and used the toes clips as I was advised. 

I've used a setup like described for a number of years as was fine with it. Went to clipless and haven't looked back. Not all shoes get in and out as easily. Some of mine with less tread slipped out more, some with more tread could be rather difficult to get out. While I didn't fall because of this, I did back off on how much I pushed it, keeping out of trickier situations where I might need to get out faster. And that's where your example falls apart some. If you know your shoes are untied then you're likely to walk a bit differently to avoid stepping on the laces. It's when they don't operate as expected that more issues are likely to come up, meaning they become untied when you thought they were tied. Adults generally have a good idea how to do this so you don't see it happen very often.

2015-09-30 12:40 PM
in reply to: BikerGrrrl

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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?

Originally posted by BikerGrrrl

In addition to keeping one's foot on the pedal when standing, etc, I also like being able to pull the pedal up into a desireable position when I am stopped, so I can pedal away quickly.  I have one bike where I wear regular shoes and it's a total bummer to get going from stopped.

For those new to/skittish of being "clipped in", you CAN loosen the tension on the pedal to making clipping out easier. I use very little tension and still see the benefits of being attached to my pedal.  I am speaking specifically of "clipless" systems.   

I've noticed that too on the rare occasion without cleats. Some pedals can adjust the tension, but not all. Shimano will. I don't know about Look (never had any of theirs). Speedplay does not. You buy the tension up front. Difference between a Zero and a Light Action.



2015-09-30 12:48 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by BikerGrrrl

In addition to keeping one's foot on the pedal when standing, etc, I also like being able to pull the pedal up into a desireable position when I am stopped, so I can pedal away quickly.  I have one bike where I wear regular shoes and it's a total bummer to get going from stopped.

For those new to/skittish of being "clipped in", you CAN loosen the tension on the pedal to making clipping out easier. I use very little tension and still see the benefits of being attached to my pedal.  I am speaking specifically of "clipless" systems.   

I've noticed that too on the rare occasion without cleats. Some pedals can adjust the tension, but not all. Shimano will. I don't know about Look (never had any of theirs). Speedplay does not. You buy the tension up front. Difference between a Zero and a Light Action.

You can adjust the tension on Speedplays.  Just don't lube the cleat and tension goes way up!  

2015-09-30 1:56 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by BikerGrrrl

In addition to keeping one's foot on the pedal when standing, etc, I also like being able to pull the pedal up into a desireable position when I am stopped, so I can pedal away quickly.  I have one bike where I wear regular shoes and it's a total bummer to get going from stopped.

For those new to/skittish of being "clipped in", you CAN loosen the tension on the pedal to making clipping out easier. I use very little tension and still see the benefits of being attached to my pedal.  I am speaking specifically of "clipless" systems.   

I've noticed that too on the rare occasion without cleats. Some pedals can adjust the tension, but not all. Shimano will. I don't know about Look (never had any of theirs). Speedplay does not. You buy the tension up front. Difference between a Zero and a Light Action.

You can adjust the tension on Speedplays.  Just don't lube the cleat and tension goes way up!  

Ha! Although I honestly couldn't tell before & after.

2015-09-30 2:10 PM
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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?

They make you faster, at least the clipless do.....because your shoes are already on the bike in transition.



Edited by Left Brain 2015-09-30 2:11 PM
2015-09-30 3:47 PM
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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?
Originally posted by Left Brain

They make you faster, at least the clipless do.....because your shoes are already on the bike in transition.




But if you bike in your running shoes, you save time at T2
2015-09-30 9:00 PM
in reply to: Caroleena

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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?
I felt like I went faster when I put toe cages on. It felt more secure to me. I didn't find it hard slipping in and out of them. I learned how to flip out of them and pull myself over to one side of the bike, riding with one foot on one pedal while standing. This made for a really fast start getting on the bike, a really fast exit coming off the bike, a fast run since I already had my running shoes one and a fast t2 since I didn't have to change my shoes. What made me change to clipless was my new bike was a lot lower and when I flipped the pedals so the cages were down, they would scrape the ground when I went around corners. Then it was dangerous.


2015-10-01 8:49 AM
in reply to: Finding Freestyle


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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?
Originally posted by Finding Freestyle

This is a hard one for a lot of triathletes and cyclists to swallow, and I'll probably get accused of forcing my opinion and being old school, but here it is:

Toe clips and modern clipless pedals add essentially zero speed or power. Since the concepts of pedaling circles, pulling up, scraping mud etc, etc, are all bunk science, we are left with the very natural pushing motion. Being attached to the pedals does nothing there.



The one reason relevent here is the feet slipping off the pedals.



I will agree if we are only talking toe clips and clipless vs platform and everything else being equal. But 99% (made up stat) of the time when someone switches from platform to clipless they are also switching to cycling shoes. There is power transfer differences between cycling shoes and running shoes.
2015-10-01 8:52 AM
in reply to: Sidney Porter

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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?

I'd like to see a test done using everyday Joe Cyclist instead of a pro cyclist.  I don't think I'm buying that there is no gain for clipped in shoes for Joe....in fact, I'd say that's ridiculous.

2015-10-01 9:16 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?
Originally posted by Left Brain

I'd like to see a test done using everyday Joe Cyclist instead of a pro cyclist.  I don't think I'm buying that there is no gain for clipped in shoes for Joe....in fact, I'd say that's ridiculous.




I had a race in early august where I forgot my cycling shoes. I put platforms(stole them from my daughters bike) on my bike and biked in my running shoes. My average for the race was about 23.5mph, which was slow for me. I fully expected to be 24-24.5mph avg for that race.

No I don't use a power meter, but I've been doing this awhile and my estimates on the bike are usually pretty close. The helmet I used also slowed me down, but pedals were a factor.
2015-10-01 9:55 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: how much faster with toe clips than with regular pedaling?
Originally posted by Left Brain

I'd like to see a test done using everyday Joe Cyclist instead of a pro cyclist.  I don't think I'm buying that there is no gain for clipped in shoes for Joe....in fact, I'd say that's ridiculous.




If you are right maybe that's saying that Joe Cyclist isn't pedalling efficiently
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