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2018-02-22 11:50 AM
in reply to: k9car363

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Subject: RE: Looking at Food

Scott - interesting read about food and weight.  I was a little chunky as a child - not overweight but not skinny either.  I lost about 25# my first couple years in college (opposite of what most people seem to do) and stayed at a comfortable weight even through 2 pregnancies.  I never had to think too much about what I was eating although I wasn't a big junk food eater, with the exception of ice cream.  It's only been the last couple of years that my weight has started to really fluctuate a lot, but I could usually keep it within 2-3 #'s of where I wanted to be.  This last 10#'s though has been tough.  It started this past summer - shorts that used to be loose on me were now "snug".  Even with changing some of my eating habits it just doesn't seem to want to budge.  Changing my thinking about why I eat might be what I need to start making some progress.

Janet



2018-02-22 3:20 PM
in reply to: k9car363


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Subject: RE: Looking at Food
I love your diesel/gasoline example.

I started eating clean a little over two years ago. I heard about the Whole30 and figured it was another diet I could try and hopefully lose some weight on. Through the elimination of so many foods, I actually found out I was borderline allergic to a large number of foods. I also found out that I have genetic markers for Celiac disease. No wonder I felt like crap every time I ate gluten!

My clean eating consists of basically fruits, veggies, lean proteins, healthy fats and tree nuts. Nothing else. When I stay on this plan, I don't have any gut issues, no headaches, no mood swings, no lethargy and I was never sick.. In short, I feel pretty good.

Over the two years, I went from 269 down to 185. God only knows why, but in November, I went off the clean eating, and began putting diesel in my tank. I went back to all the foods I knew weren't the best choices for me. I gained 35 lbs in 6 weeks, got a nasty sinus infection that lasted for 4 weeks, and overall felt like crap.

Since January 1st, I've been back on the clean eating, with very little venturing into 'non-compliant' foods. I've managed to go from almost 220 to 211, and I haven't been sick.

Like you, I've had to change my mindset on what food is and what it is not. It is fuel. It is what my body needs for energy. It is not a celebration, or a reward.

I have a ways to go to reach my goal of 150. But i know that by sticking with a plan and having activity, I will be able to get there. Not in the next few months, but maybe in a year.

On another note, I am finally able to wear shoes after having damaged my toe nail bed and having it removed two weeks ago. That seriously impacted my ability to work out. Last week though, I was going a little stir crazy and went to the gym and rode a stationary bike in my socks. The Olympics were on, and I put in 20 miles. People looked at me, but so what!

I am so looking forward to getting back on my training plan.
2018-02-22 11:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Weight-loss/Workout Challenge Weigh-In Day

Originally posted by soccermom15

Originally posted by k9car363

Originally posted by soccermom15

Scott - it was very similar to the drills you had me doing last summer.  In fact, she said she could tell that I had been working with someone who was a swimmer.

That makes me happy that you picked up enough that someone could tell you'd been working with a swimmer.

Originally posted by soccermom15

Then they did the videos - both above water and underwater.  She gave me 2 things to work on - keeping my fingers together during my stroke (I tend to spread them out) and "widening" my stroke.

I'm curious if they made comment on your catch/EVF?

I actually wanted to ask you about that but I forgot.  I specifically asked her about EVF since she was emphasizing lengthening our stroke.  It just seems like it's hard to do both - how can I do the EVF and still do a full reach on my stroke?  She said once I'm fully extended to start bending at the wrist and that would lead into the EVF.  She suggested using paddles to help get the feel for it.  I've never used paddles before so I'm not really sure how to do that.  It kind of makes sense when I think about it - just not sure how to put it into practice.  Your thoughts on this?

Janet

Hey Janet,

Yes, you can have an early vertical forearm (EVF) AND a long stroke.

The EVF, also known as the catch, may be the single most misunderstood thing in swimming.  Arguably, the catch itself provides no actual propulsion.  In many ways, the catch is nothing more than a brief transitional phase between the entry and the pull.  Done correctly, you will be more effective through the entire pull phase, resulting in a powerful, fast stroke.  Done incorrectly, you will have an inefficient stroke that generates very little forward thrust.

The greatest difference between average swimmers, which includes the VAST majority of triathletes, and elite swimmers is the elite swimmer has an immensely superior catch.

Catch Definition:  The catch is the point at which the hands begin to exert pressure on the water, and provide forward thrust, during a stroke.

I italicized "and provide forward thrust" because that is important.  A mistake that many age-group triathletes make is the first movement of their hands when they begin the pull does NOT provide propulsion.  They feel pressure on their hands but it's not doing anything for them.  Often times they are pulling with a straight arm so the first movement of their hand is down - which forces water down, not back.  Or, the first movement is to the side - which moves water to the side, not back.

Before I describe the catch, I'm going to give everybody a little tip that will correct a LOT of technique issues AG triathletes have.  This goes to the position of your hand and arm - "fingertips below wrist below elbow."  That can be your new mantra.  That mantra is true at all times while you are swimming freestyle.  It doesn't matter if you hand just entered, is half way through the above water recovery or has just released and beginning the recovery - fingertips below wrist below elbow. 

So, now that we understand the proper position of the hand, let's see what a proper catch looks like.

Imagine you hand has just entered the water.  Because your hand was in the correct position, you entered the water with a slightly fingertip down attitude (I like to see slightly pinky down as well so very slight inward rotation of the hand).  Once your hand is in the water, your body rotation allows you to fully extend your arm in front of you.  You should reach maximum body rotation and maximum extension at the same moment.  As you begin the catch, your body begins to counter-rotate - rotate in the opposite direction.  This provides a force you can anchor your pull against.

The very first movement of your hand/arm as you initiate the catch is the hand begins to drop to vertical, immediately followed by the forearm - this is one smooth movement, not two separate movements.

This is the hardest part of the catch to learn and master.  Your arm at this point is near fully extended - that doesn't mean elbow locked, but it does mean nearly as far as you can reach (I like to see a very slight bend in the elbow).  Your hand/arm should be in-line with your shoulder.  I encourage you to put your hand out in front of you in the fully extended position as you read this.  Note the position of your elbow in space.  The early vertical forearm is just that.  From the entry, with your arm near fully extended, hand and arm even with your shoulder, you want to keep your hand in line with your shoulder, but drop your hand so that your forearm is vertical.  The ONLY way to do that is to inwardly rotate your upper arm.  That's the part that people have difficulty with.  It feels very awkward when you first do it.  Sitting on your couch or at your desk. with your hand in front of you it's quite easy to see your elbow.  You don't want you elbow to move other than to rotate.  Once your forearm is vertical, then you begin the pull.  I always think of the catch movement as "getting on top of your hand" because that's precisely what it feels like when it's done properly.

The idea is to use not only your hand, but also your forearm to propel you through the water.  Using your hand and forearm provides 2-3 times as much surface area to move water with over just using your hand.  The counter-rotation I mentioned earlier allows you to engage the large muscles of your core and back to power your stroke.

Here is a very good youtube video that shows what a proper catch looks like - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3ctBUV08_o

Once your forearm is vertical you begin the pull, keeping your elbow high throughout the stroke.  The stroke goes past the shoulders, all the way to release of pressure on the water near the hip.  That is a long efficient stroke.

Paddles

Contrary to popular belief, paddles are NOT for building strength.  They aren't so you can temporarily swim faster.  Paddles are a technique tool.  If you "listen" to them, they will tell you and show you the deficiencies in your stroke.  The paddle should be just slightly larger than your hand.  You don't need all the fancy paddles that are available today which serve no purpose except to enrich the company selling them.  Here is a basic paddle that will serve you well - https://www.swimoutlet.com/p/speedo-training-paddles-1240/

Ideally when you use paddles you will have an ankle band around your ankles to minimize the kick and isolate your pull (this may cause sinking legs for many so you may want to consider a pull-buoy for your pull sets).  The first time you use paddles, I encourage you to "play" a bit.  Pull with your hand slightly rotated.  You will quickly see that the paddles will force your hand to slice off to the side because your hand position is wrong.  Enter the water after your arms have recovered in a wide arc - again, you will see the paddles will show you the error of your way.

The idea is not to go fast when you are doing pull sets.  The focus should be on perfect technique.  Listen to what the paddles are telling you.  You will know when you are doing it correctly because your hand will be rock solid in it's position - there won't be any pressure from the paddle to move your hand - if your hand is anything but perpendicular to the direction of travel, the paddles will be forcing your hand to the side.

A word of caution on using paddles.  They can place additional stress on the shoulders.  If you begin to experience discomfort or pain, stop using the paddles.

I'd start with maybe 4-6 x 50 w/20" rest, and over time build that to 10 x 50.  Back when I was swimming, when we did pull sets, we rarely went over 500 meters (10 x 50).  Remember what paddles are for - they are technique tools.  If you listen to what they are telling you, you don't need to do massive yardage with the paddles.

Hope that helps.



Edited by k9car363 2018-02-22 11:44 PM
2018-02-22 11:29 PM
in reply to: soccermom15

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Subject: RE: Looking at Food

Originally posted by soccermom15

Scott - interesting read about food and weight.  I was a little chunky as a child - not overweight but not skinny either.  I lost about 25# my first couple years in college (opposite of what most people seem to do) and stayed at a comfortable weight even through 2 pregnancies.  I never had to think too much about what I was eating although I wasn't a big junk food eater, with the exception of ice cream.  It's only been the last couple of years that my weight has started to really fluctuate a lot, but I could usually keep it within 2-3 #'s of where I wanted to be.  This last 10#'s though has been tough.  It started this past summer - shorts that used to be loose on me were now "snug".  Even with changing some of my eating habits it just doesn't seem to want to budge.  Changing my thinking about why I eat might be what I need to start making some progress.

Janet

OK, well, ice cream should be it's own separate food group so that's understandable.

Welcome to being a Gray Gal.  Our metabolism slows down as we get older - meaning we burn less calories during the day.  Of course we probably aren't eating less - which leads to the weight fluctuations.

When I finally separated the emotional lift food gave me from the actual purpose of food - to fuel the body - it made it MUCH easier to make good nutritional choices.  If I put the wrong fuel into one of our vehicles, it won't run or it will run poorly.  Our bodies are no different.

2018-02-22 11:38 PM
in reply to: Homebush

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Subject: RE: Looking at Food

Originally posted by Homebush

Like you, I've had to change my mindset on what food is and what it is not. It is fuel. It is what my body needs for energy. It is not a celebration, or a reward. 

In my humble opinion, this is probably the hardest thing for people to get their heads around.  Food is such a big part of our culture and our social fabric that we don't realize just how much influence that culture has on our nutrition choices.  Once we take control and recognize food is nothing more than fuel for the body we suddenly empower ourselves to make good nutrition choices.

Originally posted by Homebush People looked at me, but so what! I am so looking forward to getting back on my training plan.

We engage in a sport where adults prance around in spandex.  Might as well get used to people looking at you!  

2018-02-23 8:29 AM
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Subject: In-Race Nutrition

Since I posted some thoughts on nutrition yesterday, it occurred to me the next logical step is to talk about in-race nutrition.

We all know that triathlon is swim/bike/run.  However, I believe nutrition is a fourth discipline that, if not properly managed, can easily sabotage your race – especially if you are going long.  For those of you that haven’t seen it, this is what happens if you don’t manage your in-race nutrition properly –

Julie Moss

Sian Welch & Wendy Ingraham

I’m not going to get too deep into the biology, however it’s helpful to have a basic understanding when we start to talk about race day nutrition. 

For our purposes, we are going to talk about two energy pathways – aerobic and anaerobic.  At low exercise intensities, the body converts fat to energy through the aerobic energy pathway.  The aerobic energy pathway can create large amounts of energy because it has a virtually unlimited supply of fuel, however it creates that energy relatively slowly.  As exercise intensity increases and the body’s energy demands become greater; the anaerobic energy system begins to play an increasing role in energy production.  The anaerobic energy system can create energy very quickly by converting carbohydrate to energy.

It’s important to understand the body is always using both carbohydrate and fat for energy.  The ratio of carb/fat will change with exercise intensity.  When you are sleeping in bed at night, your body is using primarily fat for fuel.  However, fat burns in a carbohydrate fire.  That is important to remember.  So while you are sleeping you are using primarily fat but also some carbohydrate for energy.  If you were to run a marathon, you would be using primarily fat for fuel but also some carbohydrate – remember fat burns in a carbohydrate fire.  As your exercise intensity increases, carbohydrate provides increasing amounts of energy.  If you were to go out and do a 100-yard sprint, you would be utilizing primarily carbohydrate for energy.  This shift in the fuel ratio occurs on a continuum.  There isn’t some magic point where the ratio shifts.  The best way to think about it is with increasing exercise intensity you are using increasing amounts of carbohydrate.

Body fat provides upwards of 50-100,000 calories in a normal-weight person.  That number goes up dramatically with the amount of body fat.  Muscle glycogen (carbohydrate) provides 1,400-2,000 calories in the average trained athlete – enough for approximately 90-minutes of exercise.

Therein is the problem and why nutrition is an important part of triathlon.  A new triathlete can easily take 1:30-1:50 or more to complete a Sprint triathlon.  At the 2016 Olympic Games, the men’s winning time for the Olympic distance was 1:45.  Our bodies only have enough stored glycogen for 90-minutes of exercise.  If you run out of carbohydrate you will have NO energy because fat burns in a carbohydrate fire.  It goes without saying that our bodies don’t have enough carbohydrate available to complete a 70.3 (5-8 hours) or a 140.6 (9-17 hours).

While overall nutrition is important during training, in the days leading up to your race, and on race-morning, I want to talk specifically about during the race.

In-Race Nutrition/Hydration Requirements

  • In general, our bodies can absorb 60-90 grams of carbohydrate per hour – that’s 240-360 calories per hour.  Don’t think you can take in more and have more energy.  All you will be doing is inviting G.I. issues – which are not pretty during a race.
  • Nutrition includes managing your electrolyte balance – specifically your sodium level.  This can be easily done with the use of sports drinks.  500-700 mg/hr sodium replacement is a general recommendation for longer races, although there are no firm guidelines. 
  • Aim not to lose more than 2-3% of your body mass through sweating by taking in 120-240ml every 15-20 minutes.  Knowing your sweat rate will allow you to fine-tune your hydration requirements.  Don’t rely on thirst to dictate when to drink – follow your schedule.
  • Develop and rehearse your nutrition plan in training using the exact nutrition you intend to use on race day.  If you are going to “live off the course” (use nutrition available in the aid stations), use that product in training to make sure your body tolerates it well.
  • Coke/Soda is your best friend on race day.  The best nutrition plans can fail.  On race day, if your nutrition plan is falling short, a coke/soda will provide carbohydrate VERY quickly.  Taking in a soda followed by a gel or two can salvage your race day when your nutrition plan comes apart.

Sprint Triathlon - A sports drink prior to the start and perhaps a gel while on the bike will keep your energy level up during the race.  Primary focus during the race should be on hydration and electrolyte replacement – this can easily be accomplished with a sports drink.

Olympic Triathlon – Proper pre-race nutrition becomes more important.  During the race your focus should be on hydration, electrolyte replacement and carbohydrate intake.  Aim to take in 60-90 grams of carbohydrate per hour (240-360 calories).  Carbohydrate intake can be in fluid, gel, or solid food form.

Long Course (70.3-140.6) – Proper pre-race nutrition is essential.  A gel and sports drink 30-minutes before the start of the race will have your body ready to race.  When you come out of the water you will be dehydrated and at a caloric deficit.  It is important that you take in hydration and a gel in T1.  DON’T wait until the bike to begin taking in nutrition/hydration.  The sooner you can get ahead of the nutrition/hydration curve, the better you will do.  Once on the bike, begin to take in nutrition as soon as you are comfortable – within 10-15 minutes.  Then continue taking in nutrition following the plan you developed and rehearsed in training.  On the bike, I prefer most of my nutrition in a liquid form.  I also like to take in some solid food as it’s going to be a long day.  I carry a couple of PB&J’s cut into quarters and take in one of those quarters every 15-minutes starting an hour into the bike.  I can’t emphasize enough, you need to rehearse your nutrition plan in training.  Infinit and PB&J’s work well for me.  It may not work for you.  During a long-course triathlon, the bulk of your nutrition should be taken in on the bike as it’s harder to physically take it in while you are running and your body won’t process the carbohydrate as well.  I use gels during the run because they are easier to carry then fluid.

These are all general suggestions.  Nutrition is HIGHLY personal.  What works for one person may or may not work for you.  It is VERY important that you develop a nutrition plan that works for YOU.  You can start with the general guidelines above and tailor it to YOU.  Once you have your plan, test that plan in training.  Long rides and long runs provide an excellent opportunity to test your nutrition plan.

Hope that helps.



Edited by k9car363 2018-02-23 8:37 AM


2018-02-23 12:01 PM
in reply to: k9car363

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Subject: RE: Weight-loss/Workout Challenge Weigh-In Day

Originally posted by k9car363

Originally posted by soccermom15

Originally posted by k9car363

Originally posted by soccermom15

Scott - it was very similar to the drills you had me doing last summer.  In fact, she said she could tell that I had been working with someone who was a swimmer.

That makes me happy that you picked up enough that someone could tell you'd been working with a swimmer.

Originally posted by soccermom15

Then they did the videos - both above water and underwater.  She gave me 2 things to work on - keeping my fingers together during my stroke (I tend to spread them out) and "widening" my stroke.

I'm curious if they made comment on your catch/EVF?

I actually wanted to ask you about that but I forgot.  I specifically asked her about EVF since she was emphasizing lengthening our stroke.  It just seems like it's hard to do both - how can I do the EVF and still do a full reach on my stroke?  She said once I'm fully extended to start bending at the wrist and that would lead into the EVF.  She suggested using paddles to help get the feel for it.  I've never used paddles before so I'm not really sure how to do that.  It kind of makes sense when I think about it - just not sure how to put it into practice.  Your thoughts on this?

Janet

Hey Janet,

Yes, you can have an early vertical forearm (EVF) AND a long stroke.

....

A word of caution on using paddles.  They can place additional stress on the shoulders.  If you begin to experience discomfort or pain, stop using the paddles.

I'd start with maybe 4-6 x 50 w/20" rest, and over time build that to 10 x 50.  Back when I was swimming, when we did pull sets, we rarely went over 500 meters (10 x 50).  Remember what paddles are for - they are technique tools.  If you listen to what they are telling you, you don't need to do massive yardage with the paddles.

Hope that helps.

Scott - thanks for the info.  Just ordered myself some paddles (birthday present to myself ).  I'm hoping to get a long swim in on Sunday morning (time-wise, I'll be doing sets of 50's & 100's mostly) so I'll try to put some of this into practice. 

Janet

2018-02-23 2:41 PM
in reply to: k9car363

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Subject: RE: In-Race Sodium
Originally posted by k9car363

Since I posted some thoughts on nutrition yesterday, it occurred to me the next logical step is to talk about in-race nutrition.

.

  • Nutrition includes managing your electrolyte balance – specifically your sodium level.  This can be easily done with the use of sports drinks.  500-700 mg/hr sodium replacement is a general recommendation for longer races, although there are no firm guidelines. 


  • Good stuff, Scott.

    Have you had any experience with salt sticks or other supplemental sodium tabs to assist during a race?

    My first HIM I only took in water and sports drinks for sodium (not counting what was in food/gels) and felt like I really was drained on the run based on muscle tightness cramping. Next time out I taped salt tabs to my handlebars and was taking one per hour and felt significantly better.

    I'l be in Hawaii in a few weeks, racing in a climate I'm not adjusted to at all. I was thinking even though it's only Olympic distance, a couple of salt tabs on the bike my be a good idea....because I'm sure to cook on the run.

    Thanks,

    Steve
    2018-02-23 3:00 PM
    in reply to: lutzman

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    Subject: RE: In-Race Sodium

    Originally posted by lutzman
    Originally posted by k9car363

    Since I posted some thoughts on nutrition yesterday, it occurred to me the next logical step is to talk about in-race nutrition..

    • Nutrition includes managing your electrolyte balance – specifically your sodium level.  This can be easily done with the use of sports drinks.  500-700 mg/hr sodium replacement is a general recommendation for longer races, although there are no firm guidelines. 
    Good stuff, Scott. Have you had any experience with salt sticks or other supplemental sodium tabs to assist during a race? My first HIM I only took in water and sports drinks for sodium (not counting what was in food/gels) and felt like I really was drained on the run based on muscle tightness cramping. Next time out I taped salt tabs to my handlebars and was taking one per hour and felt significantly better. I'l be in Hawaii in a few weeks, racing in a climate I'm not adjusted to at all. I was thinking even though it's only Olympic distance, a couple of salt tabs on the bike my be a good idea....because I'm sure to cook on the run. Thanks, Steve

     Steve,

    In the past I've used "SaltStick Electrolyte Supplement."

    These are 215mg of sodium per capsule.  I adjust how many capsules I take based on temp/humidity and what that's doing to my sweat rate.  If I'm not sweating a lot, I'll take one per hour.  If I'm seating profusely, I'll take one tablet every 20-minutes so 645 mg/hour.  I have tried different forms of salt tabs and like these the best because they are in a capsule so you don't get salt all over everything and you don't get the big shot of salt in your mouth when you take one.

     

    2018-02-24 7:51 PM
    in reply to: k9car363

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    Subject: RE: Weight-loss/Workout Challenge Weigh-In Day

    It's amazing how quick the week goes by!

    Don't forget  to weigh-in -





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    2018-02-25 11:16 AM
    in reply to: k9car363

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    Subject: Happy Sunday!
    Is Sunday your day for a longer workout to build stamina and endurance? Some other day? So, what's your Sunday workout look like?

    This morning was 1600 meters on my VASA for swim training (Scott--400 warm up followed by your suggestion of 3 sets of 7 X 1 minute 30/20/10 build ups).

    I'll then hit the bike trainer for a steady state ride for around 2 hours. We're back to sub-freezing temps and snow flurries, so no riding outside yet. It will probably be a 20 minute warm up followed by 10 X 10 minute tempo intervals with a cool down.

    Hope you have a great Sunday.

    Steve



    2018-02-25 1:27 PM
    in reply to: lutzman

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    Subject: RE: Happy Sunday!

    Originally posted by lutzman

    This morning was 1600 meters on my VASA for swim training (Scott--400 warm up followed by your suggestion of 3 sets of 7 X 1 minute 30/20/10 build ups).

    Steve

    Steve,

    So how'd you like that workout?

    2018-02-25 1:48 PM
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    Subject: RE: Happy Sunday!

    Originally posted by lutzman Is Sunday your day for a longer workout to build stamina and endurance? Some other day? So, what's your Sunday workout look like?

    Steve

    Steve,

    Sunday is my rest day so I do my long ride/run on different days.  I figure my wife is very tolerant of my triathlon habit so the least I can do is give her my rest day.  Sunday is our day together.  I have to admit, I enjoy that and it has the added benefit of keeping peace in the house.

    I've haven't been feeling good all week so haven't done a long ride or run, in fact, haven't done much of anything.  If I had done a long ride, it wouldn't have been over two-hours.  That's my limit on the trainer.  Typically my long ride on a trainer will look like a warm-up followed by 3 x 30' @ 88-90% with 5 minute recovery between intervals. 

    Another ride I like is similar to yours, a warm-up followed by 10 x 10' continuous tempo intervals around 80-90% (no recovery between intervals).  I don't like long steady-state rides on the trainer.  That 3 x 30 ride is excruciating for me.  I much prefer high intensity interval rides on the trainer or tempo rides with a lot of power/pace changes.



    Edited by k9car363 2018-02-25 4:29 PM
    2018-02-25 5:35 PM
    in reply to: k9car363

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    Subject: RE: Happy Sunday!
    Originally posted by k9car363

    Originally posted by lutzman Is Sunday your day for a longer workout to build stamina and endurance? Some other day? So, what's your Sunday workout look like?

    Steve

    Steve,

    Sunday is my rest day so I do my long ride/run on different days.   I don't like long steady-state rides on the trainer.  That 3 x 30 ride is excruciating for me.  I much prefer high intensity interval rides on the trainer or tempo rides with a lot of power/pace changes.




    Yeah, steady state was not my best description. I'd go crazy if I was just peddling for two hours with nothing to break it up. I really me tempo intervals, each at a steady pace..but I usually slightly raise the watts as I go. So, I end up with consistent 10 X 10 minute tempo intervals with 8 minutes on, 2 minutes off. It's a pretty good workout...and just trying to keep the watts locked in on target keeps my mind engaged. And it's a pretty good endurance workout.

    Steve
    2018-02-25 5:55 PM
    in reply to: k9car363

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    Subject: RE: Happy Sunday!
    Hey everyone, here are my last 2 weeks of training.

    Last week: 9 hours, no weight change
    This week: 10 hours, down 2 lbs

    So Steve, I’ll open a can of worms ?? and I know that it will be a case by case situation but how much swimming do you really need do? Since there only so many hours per week, where do get the max return? I’m also still keeping 2 hours of weight training- mostly body weight and core exercises.

    I’m on week 3 of my 30 week Ironman Plan and really focusing on my bike & run (only 1 hour of swimming).

    My thought process is that:
    1. The swim will be about 10% of the race
    2. I’m not scared of swim - I grew up in a pool
    3. I need to lose weight and I do that best by running
    4. I’ll plan to pick this up in the summer when I practice OWS more

    Thoughts?

    2018-02-25 8:58 PM
    in reply to: k9car363

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    Subject: RE: Weight-loss/Workout Challenge Weigh-In Day

    Weight Challenge:

    No change in weight.

    426.33 minutes (7.1 hours) of working out:

    Swim - 2:18 hrs

    Bike - 4:07 hrs

    Run - 41 min (.68 hrs)

    I'll definitely get running this week.



    2018-02-25 10:01 PM
    in reply to: #5231907

    User image


    1508
    1000500
    Cypress, Texas
    Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Maturing Triathlete - Always OPEN
    Weight challenge...

    Still a bit under the weather with a persistent cough from the flu but I got back to training on Friday and finished the week with 3 hour 3 minutes of training. Weight loss was 3.2 lbs.
    2018-02-25 10:57 PM
    in reply to: Turner100

    User image

    Regular
    1126
    100010025
    East Wenatchee, Washington
    Subject: RE: Happy Sunday!
    Originally posted by Turner100

    Hey everyone, here are my last 2 weeks of training.

    Last week: 9 hours, no weight change
    This week: 10 hours, down 2 lbs

    So Steve, I’ll open a can of worms ?? and I know that it will be a case by case situation but how much swimming do you really need do? Since there only so many hours per week, where do get the max return? I’m also still keeping 2 hours of weight training- mostly body weight and core exercises.

    I’m on week 3 of my 30 week Ironman Plan and really focusing on my bike & run (only 1 hour of swimming).

    My thought process is that:
    1. The swim will be about 10% of the race
    2. I’m not scared of swim - I grew up in a pool
    3. I need to lose weight and I do that best by running
    4. I’ll plan to pick this up in the summer when I practice OWS more

    Thoughts?




    Hey Rob:

    In the short term, if your immediate goal is to get your weight down I don't see a big problem of focusing on the activities (running in particular, but also biking) that burn more calories per hour of training. That said, a couple of consideration:

    First, I understand the motivation. I somewhat took the same approach when I started triathlon as I just needed to build fitness on the bike which is the longest segment of the race. I calculated a projected improvement on the bike would save me more overall time than improvements in my swim. Plus, because I was a mediocre swimmer I just didn't enjoy it as much as running or biking...so it was easy for me to rationalize pushing swimming to the bottom of the training plan.

    The problem I discovered is that every race I came out of the water gassed...which impacted my bike and run segments. I finally decided that I was wrecking my races because I was blowing myself up with poor form and lack of base swim fitness. Which leads me to my second point.

    Longer term, I think you're going to need your swim fitness to have a good Ironman experience. Yes, from a pure time standpoint it's probably about 10% of the elapsed race time. But, if you don't have solid swim fitness, you'll come out of the water having generated A LOT of lactic acid...which will impact your body for balance of the race. So, in an IM or HIM, getting over-taxed on the swim can stay with you for the next 5-15 hours making for a very long and not very enjoyable day.

    The second thing to consider is likelihood of diminishing returns. The fact is your biggest time reductions in any sport will come as you begin to develop base proficiency. For example, it's not uncommon for a new runner gaining proficiency to go from a 15 minute mile pace to an 12 minute pace catching a bonus of 3 minutes a mile. That's a lot of time over a half or full marathon. On the other hand, an experienced runner could work an entire season to shave 30 seconds per mile off their pace. That same solid runner would probably be better off spending more time in the pool to drop the swim time from 2 hours to 90 minutes
    vs. trying to capture the last gain of 30 seconds per mile on the run...and also derive the benefit of exiting the water stronger and ready to hit the bike.

    Therein lies the challenge of triathlon....competence is required across three sports. Don't ignore the swim for too long.

    I'm sure Scott will have a couple of thoughts as well...:

    My two cents...

    Best,

    Steve

    2018-02-26 8:30 AM
    in reply to: lutzman

    User image

    Expert
    1007
    1000
    Missouri
    Subject: RE: Happy Sunday!

    For the past week:

    no weight change
    workouts:
      swim - 0:42
      bike - 1:47
      run - 1:23
      yoga - 1:45

    Have a good week all!
    Janet

    2018-02-26 10:32 AM
    in reply to: k9car363

    User image

    New user
    20

    Subject: RE: Weight-loss/Workout Challenge Weigh-In Day
    Hey everyone. I survived the cold in Minnesota without any weight gain. I'll chalk that up to a win.

    no weight change 150lb
    293 total min of training
    120 Min strength
    50 min swimming (first swim after tattoo)
    63 min running
    2018-02-26 10:52 AM
    in reply to: soccermom15

    User image

    Regular
    1126
    100010025
    East Wenatchee, Washington
    Subject: RE: weight loss challenge
    Happy Monday!

    I had a good week after re-gaining weight the week prior. I dropped 1.6 pounds from 178 down to 176.4. Really hoping to keep it rolling. I would love to see a 174 by race day....but it's going to take additional training.

    Workouts for me were solid at 11 hours, as follow:

    Swim: 172 minutes
    Bike: 282 minutes
    Run: 206 minutes

    I'm four weeks out from my Olympic distance race in Hawaii on March 25, so the next two weeks will be my heaviest of the 16 week lead up to the race. I've got around 12 hours of training for each of the next two weeks, then I'll back it off a bit for week three and taper/recover the final week.

    Considering that I pretty much started from zero on December 1, I'm feeling reasonably positive about my fitness/weight loss progress. Of course, actual fitness won't be revealed until race day. Regardless, I have a long way to go. I'm figuring it will take most of the summer to build the aerobic capacity to get my fitness back close to where I was a few years ago.

    Have a good week everyone.

    Steve


    2018-02-26 1:34 PM
    in reply to: lutzman

    User image


    1508
    1000500
    Cypress, Texas
    Subject: RE: weight loss challenge

    Originally posted by lutzman Happy Monday! I had a good week after re-gaining weight the week prior. I dropped 1.6 pounds from 178 down to 176.4. Really hoping to keep it rolling. I would love to see a 174 by race day....but it's going to take additional training. Workouts for me were solid at 11 hours, as follow: Swim: 172 minutes Bike: 282 minutes Run: 206 minutes I'm four weeks out from my Olympic distance race in Hawaii on March 25, so the next two weeks will be my heaviest of the 16 week lead up to the race. I've got around 12 hours of training for each of the next two weeks, then I'll back it off a bit for week three and taper/recover the final week. Considering that I pretty much started from zero on December 1, I'm feeling reasonably positive about my fitness/weight loss progress. Of course, actual fitness won't be revealed until race day. Regardless, I have a long way to go. I'm figuring it will take most of the summer to build the aerobic capacity to get my fitness back close to where I was a few years ago. Have a good week everyone. Steve

     

    Steve,

     

    Good luck at you OLY Race on the 25th.   

     

    My preparation from my first 70.3 race was 4 months of running then four months with Cycling and Swimming added to the running.  I hadn't been in a pool or on a bike for years prior to that and had never trained or competed in either prior to race.  You can accomplish quite a bit in 4 months time.  No you will not be able to complete are you highest level with just 4 months training but you should discover in a few weeks that you have your speed back.

    2018-02-26 2:21 PM
    in reply to: #5238760


    44
    25
    , Indiana
    Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Maturing Triathlete - Always OPEN
    A great week for me. Not for training tho. It’s alright. My 50th birthday so I took it easy this week
    Gained .75 pounds.
    Ran 30 min
    Biked 1:30
    2018-02-26 4:14 PM
    in reply to: Onurleft20

    User image

    Official BT Coach
    18500
    50005000500020001000500
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Gold member
    Subject: RE: Weight-loss/Workout Challenge Weigh-In Day

    Weight - lost 0.3 pounds

    Workout - haven't been feeling well all week so pretty light for workouts.

    Swim - 97 min

    Bike - 45 min

    Run - 0 min

    Total - 2:22

    2018-02-26 7:39 PM
    in reply to: lutzman

    User image

    Official BT Coach
    18500
    50005000500020001000500
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Gold member
    Subject: Traveling to an Out-of-Town Race

    Originally posted by lutzman

    I'm four weeks out from my Olympic distance race in Hawaii on March 25

    Steve

    Hey Steve,

    Whenever I've had to travel out of town for a race I've always driven.  I have never felt comfortable with the idea of my bike on an airliner.  On more than a couple of occasions, that has turned what could have been, probably should have been, a long weekend, into a week or two of driving across the country to a race and then back home again.

    Just wondering how you are getting your bike to Hawaii?  It occurs to me, that isn't a drive one could easily make.

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