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2006-11-16 10:07 AM

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Buttercup
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Subject: No smoking in condo

Evidently, being annoying in your own home is now illegal.

Couple's smoking at home snuffed
A judge says a Golden condo complex can outlaw the smoke -or the smell of it- as a "nuisance."

Golden - A Golden couple can't smoke in the townhouse they own after a judge ruled last week that their condominium association can prohibit smoking in their four-unit building. 

Under the condo declarations, she noted, "no nuisance shall be allowed ... which is a source of annoyance to residents."

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_4667551

I think I'm going to sue my neighbor who smokes in her front yard. I might get a wiff of that smoke - one never knows.



Edited by Renee 2006-11-16 10:08 AM


2006-11-16 10:11 AM
in reply to: #601019

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Runner
Subject: RE: No smoking in condo
Heh. Autumn's wish is swiftly coming true.
2006-11-16 10:11 AM
in reply to: #601019

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: No smoking in condo

Oh my... it just got better...

Belmont Considers Nation's Toughest No Smoking Law  

BELMONT -- Hoping to pass what would be the nation's most far-reaching ban on smoking, the City Council asked its staff to draft an ordinance that would outlaw tobacco use everywhere except inside single family homes.

 

While details of the proposed law still need to be worked out, city councilors said Tuesday they want it to be as comprehensive as possible and to give police the option of ticketing people caught smoking on the street or in their cars.

 

"We need to pass as stringent a law as we can. I would like to make it illegal," said Councilman Dave Warden.

 

The city initially planned to pursue a smoking ban similar to ones passed recently in two other California cities, Calabasas and Dublin. Those laws made secondhand tobacco smoke a public nuisance, a move designed to make it easier for residents to sue neighbors who puff with impunity.

 

Instead, council members voted unanimously to see if a complete ban was enforceable and would survive legal scrutiny. Belmont, population 25,000, is located 22 miles south of San Francisco.

2006-11-16 10:12 AM
in reply to: #601019

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molto veloce mama
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Subject: RE: No smoking in condo
i think that's stupid. i really don't think smoking should be against the law, especially in your own home. that's just stupid. i bet they have to edge their lawns too.
2006-11-16 10:17 AM
in reply to: #601025

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molto veloce mama
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Subject: RE: No smoking in condo
nope. i don't think it should be illegal. as renee has brought up, that would be like prohibition. i think pot should be legal too. stupid that some peopl get sent away longer for smoking weed than they would for beating up a person.

i wish less people smoked, sure...but i don't think it should be illegal. going back to the poop analogy. if you want to make your dinner w/o washing your hands, do so freely in your own home. no law saying you can't. have a poop sandwich for all i care. however, if you are making other people's food in a public place, and your hygiene could put others at risk, then there's a law.
2006-11-16 10:23 AM
in reply to: #601039

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Runner
Subject: RE: No smoking in condo
autumn - 2006-11-16 11:17 AM

nope. i don't think it should be illegal. as renee has brought up, that would be like prohibition. i think pot should be legal too. stupid that some peopl get sent away longer for smoking weed than they would for beating up a person.

i wish less people smoked, sure...but i don't think it should be illegal. going back to the poop analogy. if you want to make your dinner w/o washing your hands, do so freely in your own home. no law saying you can't. have a poop sandwich for all i care. however, if you are making other people's food in a public place, and your hygiene could put others at risk, then there's a law.


Ah, but, by your own admission, this is a public health issue, and not just about smelling smoke. In a condo setting, there is a greater chance of sharing the air. As for the second issue, you yourself pointed out the hazards are present, even outdoors, after you can no longer tell if someone is smoking. By those standards, why would you not support these two movements?


2006-11-16 10:26 AM
in reply to: #601019

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Master
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San Mateo, CA
Subject: RE: No smoking in condo

I currently live in a no-smoking building - says so right in the lease.  However, my downstairs neighbors smoke like chimneys.  Unfortunately, their smoke travels through the heating and ventilation system, and makes my apartment smell like a poolhall.  If you signed on the dotted line, agreeing to a no smoking apartment or housing arrangement prior to moving in, then stick to it or go find an apartment that allows smoking.

2006-11-16 10:31 AM
in reply to: #601019

Master
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Boston
Subject: RE: No smoking in condo

What a TIMELY thread. My chainsmoking neighbor just returned from Canada for the season, and because our condo complex is older than Ghandi, the a/c systems are ancient. Every time that @#$%^ lights up, our unit smells like a stale ashtray. Can I just tell you how much i love coming home from work, and having to open all the doors, windows, spray febreeze everywhere, light candles....Every time the a/c comes on, her smoke blows in through my vents. I can't stand it. I hope she chokes on her cigarette.

I don't know if I'd outlaw smoking in your own home, even as much as I LOATHE my neighbor, but at least require all apartments or condos to have a good, working ventilation system to ensure smells don't come through the vents.

2006-11-16 10:44 AM
in reply to: #601049

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: No smoking in condo
betyoursilver - 2006-11-16 11:26 AM

If you signed on the dotted line, agreeing to a no smoking apartment or housing arrangement prior to moving in, then stick to it or go find an apartment that allows smoking.

I agree. That's not what happened in this case, however. The HOA was changed after they lived there.

2006-11-16 10:54 AM
in reply to: #601019

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Elite
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Subject: RE: No smoking in condo

In my condo, when I had downstairs neighbors who smoked, I could smell it pretty strong traveling up the bathroom vent systems.  I kept the bathroom door shut and tried to avoid using it (luckily had another).   I have my condo for rent and I say no smoking in the condo - but I don't rule it out on the porch (hopefully they wouldn't be the "flicker" types and flick the butts onto the courtyard below like some other neighbors of ours have done).  Living in a condo is communal, the property value is tied to the community more tightly than a single family home, and there have to be rules.   I can see a smoke-free condo building - I can only imagine the meetings leading up to the ruling - yikes! 

Now it says not that they cannot smoke, but that the smoke cannot leave their unit.   If people want to smoke and install some system to isolate the smoke, then go for it - light up.

2006-11-16 11:01 AM
in reply to: #601039

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Giver
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Subject: RE: No smoking in condo

autumn - 2006-11-16 11:17 AM i think pot should be legal too.

As long as you don't smoke a spliff in the ATM line.



2006-11-16 11:02 AM
in reply to: #601063

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Giver
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Subject: RE: No smoking in condo
Renee - 2006-11-16 11:44 AM
betyoursilver - 2006-11-16 11:26 AM

If you signed on the dotted line, agreeing to a no smoking apartment or housing arrangement prior to moving in, then stick to it or go find an apartment that allows smoking.

I agree. That's not what happened in this case, however. The HOA was changed after they lived there.

Seems like there should be a grandfather clause. Some somking condo owner would have a pretty good case for a lawsuit, methinks.



Edited by run4yrlif 2006-11-16 11:03 AM
2006-11-16 11:02 AM
in reply to: #601088

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Runner
Subject: RE: No smoking in condo
run4yrlif - 2006-11-16 12:01 PM

autumn - 2006-11-16 11:17 AM i think pot should be legal too.

As long as you don't smoke a spliff in the ATM line.



Or a construction site. Or in a restaurant.
2006-11-16 11:06 AM
in reply to: #601048

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molto veloce mama
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Subject: RE: No smoking in condo
there have been studies about seperate air spaces. so, for example...if you were in a restaurant with a smoking section, and the air seemed clean because there was a seperate air filtration system for the smoking section, you would still be exposed. the filters just elliminate the smell of the smoke. if the restaurant has a seperate area, walled off, with a seperate filtration system...that actually works to keep the air born chemicals out of the general air supply.

pool analogy. if you are at the pool, and there is a seperate filter for the deep end and the shallow end...and you pee in the deep end...some of you pee will still work its way to the shallow end, despite the seperate filtration. if you pee in the hot tub, then its not going to get into the pool. make sense?

here is an example from olmsted county here in minnesota. this provision is very similar to the smoking ordinance up in duluth (where i grew up):


Subd. 2 Exemptions. The prohibitions of subd.1 do not apply to the following places or situations:

a.Bars, including those that are immediately adjacent to a restaurant, provided that the following separations are maintained:

1)The bar is separated from the restaurant on all sides by continuous floor-to-ceiling walls, which are interrupted only by closeable doors, that are continuously closed, except when a person is actively entering or exiting the bar; and

2)The bar ventilation systems are totally separated from the restaurant, with the bar maintaining a negative air pressure in relation to the adjacent restaurant; and


the whole ordinance is here: http://www.co.olmsted.mn.us/ordinances/smoke-free_restaurant_ordina...

the first part is pretty interesting. gives the reasons for the ban:



WHEREAS, non-smoking sections in buildings do not eliminate non-smokers’ exposure to second-hand smoke (U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Office of Air and Radiation IARC Scientific Publications 81:25-41, 1987); and

WHEREAS, carcinogens found in Environmental Tobacco Smoke (ETS) are causally related to cancer. It is estimated that every year 3,000 non-smokers in the U.S. die of lung cancer related to ETS (60 deaths in MN). To date, over 50 substances in second-hand smoke have been identified as carcinogens. (U.S. Department of Health and Human Services; Health Effects of Exposure to Environmental Tobacco Smoke, 1999); and

WHEREAS, annually between 35,000 and 62,000 non-smokers die in the U.S. (700 to 1,240 deaths in MN) from Ischemic heart disease related to ETS (U.S. Department of Health and Human Services; Health Effects of Exposure to Environmental Tobacco Smoke, 1999); and

WHEREAS, each year 9,700 to 18,600 low birth weight babies born in the U.S. (190 to 370 in MN) are causally related to ETS (U.S. Department of Health and Human Services; Health Effects of Exposure to Environmental Tobacco Smoke, 1999); and

WHEREAS, annually between 1,900 and 2,700 deaths from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) occur in the U.S. (30 to 50 deaths in MN) related to ETS (U.S. Department of Health and Human Services; Health Effects of Exposure to Environmental Tobacco Smoke, 1999); and

WHEREAS, irritants in ETS cause 150,000 cases annually of bronchitis and pneumonia (3,000 cases in MN). Irritants also cause 700,000 cases annually of middle ear infections in children in the U.S. (14,000 in MN) (U.S. Department of Health and Human Services; Health Effects of Exposure to Environmental Tobacco Smoke, 1999); and

WHEREAS, a review of 2000 children in Olmsted County has shown an average of 17.3% having asthma, which is 2.5 times the national average (study conducted by Dr. Barbara Yawn, Olmsted Medical Center researcher). Asthma that becomes worse due to ETS occurs in 400,000 children annually in the U.S. (8,000 children in MN) (U.S. Department of Health and Human Services; Health Effects of Exposure to Environmental Tobacco Smoke, 1999); and

WHEREAS, ETS rapidly diffuses throughout a room. Using indoor air quality standards, ventilation rates would have to be increased more than a thousand-fold to reduce cancer risk associated with ETS. Such ventilation rate would result in a virtual windstorm indoors (Replace, J. “Risk Management and Passive Smoking at Work and at Home,” St. Louis University Public Law Review, 13(2): 763-785, 1994); and

WHEREAS, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Healthy People 2010 has as one of its objectives to cut exposure to ETS by non-smokers from 65% in 1994 to 45% in 2010 (U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Healthy People 2010, Washington D.C., U.S. Department of Health Human Services 2000); and

WHEREAS, sitting in a smoke-free section of a restaurant for two hours is like smoking 1½ cigarettes (Presentation by Katherine Hammond, PhD, University of California School of Public Health); and

WHEREAS, nine out of ten non-smokers are exposed to ETS at least once every 2 to 3 days (Journal of the American Medical Association, January 1998); and

WHEREAS, Minnesota Statute § 145A.04 establishes the powers and duties of a Board of Health to enforce ordinances related to public health for the territory within its jurisdiction; and

WHEREAS, Minnesota Statute § 145A.05 authorizes a County Board to adopt ordinances to regulate actual or potential threats to the public health and to define public health nuisances and to provide for their prevention



Edited by autumn 2006-11-16 11:07 AM
2006-11-16 11:08 AM
in reply to: #601092

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molto veloce mama
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Subject: RE: No smoking in condo
or the nude beach.
2006-11-16 11:09 AM
in reply to: #601101

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Giver
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Subject: RE: No smoking in condo

autumn - 2006-11-16 12:08 PM or the nude beach.

You should totally be allowed to get baked while you bake your bits and pieces.



2006-11-16 11:09 AM
in reply to: #601019

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Champion
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Beautiful Sonoma County
Subject: RE: No smoking in condo

I don't know if I'd outlaw smoking in your own home, even as much as I LOATHE my neighbor, but at least require all apartments or condos to have a good, working ventilation system to ensure smells don't come through the vents.

We live in a condo.  Fortunately, it's a townhome, and each unit has its own ventilation, heating and cooling.  But, it seems, my neighbors who smoke aren't allowed to smoke inside their homes either (probably by a spouse), so they go out back and smoke on their respective patios.  

In the summer, this makes me crazy.  Where we live, open windows are the #1 source of cooler air in the evenings, and that just means their smoke comes floating up into my bedroom when I'm trying to sleep.  Gag.

But there's nothing I can do about it except shut my window. 

2006-11-16 11:09 AM
in reply to: #601053

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molto veloce mama
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Subject: RE: No smoking in condo
when i was in college, the guy in the dorm room next to me smoked more pot than bob marley. on a hot day, he would put his fan on outtake, and if i had left my window fan on intake, my room would be full of pot smoke. good times.
2006-11-16 11:10 AM
in reply to: #601049

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molto veloce mama
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Subject: RE: No smoking in condo
i would be very concerned about the shared ventilation system, if i were you.
2006-11-16 11:13 AM
in reply to: #601048

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molto veloce mama
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Subject: RE: No smoking in condo
i just reread your post...and you are right. from a health risk perspective - IF the condo has a shared ventilation system (as mentioned below), then its a health concern to everyone in that condo. if the units have seperate ventilation, then it isn't as much of a problem. sound like in this case, they are aproaching it more as an nuisance, not a health problem. they probably also have rules about volume of your tv and stereo, etc.
2006-11-16 11:21 AM
in reply to: #601109

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Champion
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Subject: RE: No smoking in condo

they probably also have rules about volume of your tv and stereo, etc.

I'm sure they do.  As well as rules about how high your flowers can grow (no higher than the fence), what type of bird feeders you can use, where your satallite dish can go, where you can park, how long your garbage bin can sit out, etc.

Rules, rules, and more rules. We get a nasty-gram from our CCNR-nazi about once every three months.  If we don't hear from her, then we start worry about her.   



2006-11-16 11:27 AM
in reply to: #601122

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molto veloce mama
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Subject: RE: No smoking in condo
yikes. i'm so glad i live in the 'hood.
2006-11-16 12:34 PM
in reply to: #601088

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Pro
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St Charles, IL
Subject: RE: No smoking in condo
run4yrlif - 2006-11-16 10:01 AM

autumn - 2006-11-16 11:17 AM i think pot should be legal too.

As long as you don't smoke a spliff in the ATM line.

As long as you share, I'm okay.   

2006-11-16 12:41 PM
in reply to: #601133

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Champion
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Subject: RE: No smoking in condo

yikes. i'm so glad i live in the 'hood.

Oh, but that's just it. We do live in the 'hood. Our condo complex (where we just rent) is surrounded by pretty sketchy apartment complexes. On the weekend nights, and sometimes the weeknights, we are awakened by people having screaming matches in the street behind our unit. The "worst neighborhood in Santa Rosa" is just 2-3 blocks west of us, and we hear the sirens and police helicopters all the time.

Eric sometimes talks about buying our unit from the landlord (because it really is a nice unit), but I have to remind him that the neighborhood isn't going anywhere.

And the stories I hear from other Condo Owners about their CCNRs make ours seem liberal.   



Edited by madkat 2006-11-16 12:42 PM
2006-11-16 12:48 PM
in reply to: #601237

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Runner
Subject: RE: No smoking in condo
madkat - 2006-11-16 1:41 PM

yikes. i'm so glad i live in the 'hood.

Oh, but that's just it. We do live in the 'hood. Our condo complex (where we just rent) is surrounded by pretty sketchy apartment complexes. On the weekend nights, and sometimes the weeknights, we are awakened by people having screaming matches in the street behind our unit. The "worst neighborhood in Santa Rosa" is just 2-3 blocks west of us, and we hear the sirens and police helicopters all the time.

Eric sometimes talks about buying our unit from the landlord (because it really is a nice unit), but I have to remind him that the neighborhood isn't going anywhere.

And the stories I hear from other Condo Owners about their CCNRs make ours seem liberal.



Sounds like where I live. We always joke about a couple houses being crackhouses. It's not horrible, but it ain't the greatest, either. Every so often I hear what sounds a lot like gun shots, which freaks me out (unexpected sounds like gunshots and explosions make me somewhat twitchy), but we never hear any more about them.

Where we used to live (in Altoona), when we first moved in, we used to watch another couple in the complex get into screaming matches in the parking lot, that would last until the cops showed up. That was our 3xweek entertainment.
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