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2006-11-21 3:38 PM
in reply to: #605581

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Master
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Colorado
Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."
shadowfax - 2006-11-21 4:36 PM
SweetK - 2006-11-21 3:28 PM
Renee - 2006-11-21 4:19 PM

SweetK - 2006-11-21 4:13 PM 

They probably represented a radical group...and not in the norm of society, but in fact, their intent was to shove the "natural" aspect down the public's throat. During the early 2000's there was a big push by the breastfeeding community to openly breastfed in public. A new precendent was set, and it became accepted because of the "open breastfeeding event" (sit-in's) in public places like malls, parks, department stores, airlines etc.

Seems very backwards to me that breastfeeding needed a movement (radical or otherwise) to make it acceptable.

A good read is: "Milk, Money, and Madness: The Culture and Politics of Breastfeeding" by Naomi Baumslag and Dia L. Michels. It talks about the advent of the "Formula Companies" in the 1960's and 1970's and the push to make breastfeeding a lower-class thing and bottle-feeding with formula preferred. And it worked until the late 1980's early 1990's when nursing mothers groups emerged with supporting doctor's to shift the Breastfeeding paradigm. It's not backwards...actually, I was born in 1970 and my mother told me that the hospital put her in a small backroom so she could breastfeed me, otherwise she was shunned and there was no breastfeeding support at the time in the US. It's true.

. It would be an interested topic to study, albeit touchy.

heh. Literally.

(oh, I'm kidding)



2006-11-21 3:39 PM
in reply to: #605576

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2006-11-21 3:43 PM
in reply to: #605377

Champion
7036
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Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."
run4yrlif - 2006-11-21 2:51 PM

tkbslc - 2006-11-21 2:48 PM I do agree that breastfeeding should not be considered offensive, but what is so wrong about asking to cover up?  

Have you ever tried breathing for 10 minutes under a blanket?

If there were some bare breasts under the blanket it might not be so bad.

Mark

2006-11-21 3:45 PM
in reply to: #605576

Master
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West Jordan, UT
Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."
akustix - 2006-11-21 2:30 PM
Renee - 2006-11-21 3:01 PM
akustix - 2006-11-21 2:56 PM

And I think breastfeeding in public is always an impact statement... Work against the machine that tells women breastfeeding is unnatural!

Sure, breastfeeding couldn't be a more natural, wholesome act but what's your point?

(yes, I'm being facetious)

Thanks for the note about facetiousness...

 But my point is that our society has an entire industry set up to make it seem like breast feeding is unnatural or inconvenient.  I don't want this to turn into a "but I have a friend who cannot breast feed..." Formula is a good thing when breast feeding is not possible, but we have a society that shortchanges children and parents by substituting something less than what is best for the best possible option. 

Throw in crappy maternity leave and there is almost no option for mothers who want to breast feed... These are implicit messages found throughout our society that seek to subvert the natural role of breastfeeding.

Peace,

Brian 

 I completely disagree.  I think the shift has gone the other way to the point many women feel inadequate or guilty if they cannot or choose not to breastfeed.  The hospitals here made it seem like formula wasn't even an option.  My wife was really torn up because she is physically not able to breastfeed.   Formula is just fine!  How many millions of us were raised on it with no ill effects?    This isn't really related to the original topic IMO because nobody asked her to use a bottle, they said to cover up. 

 



Edited by tkbslc 2006-11-21 3:46 PM
2006-11-21 3:53 PM
in reply to: #605301

Extreme Veteran
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coastal NC
Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."

I realize that the topic has moved a bit beyond this, but I'm thinking about the actual viewshed here. Back of the plane. Window seat. Husband sitting next to her.

You'd have to be looking pretty hard to see breastfeeding and be offended in that situation.

That said, my general view is that women need all the support they can get when their children are young, breastfeeding or bottlefeeding. There are more than enough other things to worry about.

 

 



Edited by deepbluesea 2006-11-21 4:02 PM
2006-11-21 3:57 PM
in reply to: #605595

Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."
tkbslc -

many women feel inadequate or guilty if they cannot or choose not to breastfeed.

That's true.  I see it particularly in the so-called progressive community I live in.  There is pressure on women to do it the "right" way. 



2006-11-21 3:58 PM
in reply to: #605301

molto veloce mama
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Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."
there have been nurse ins at the ymca, victoria's secret...lots of places. don't argue w/ semi-topless women and their babies. i have a shirt that has the minnesota state breastfeeding statute. actually has the word 'nipple' on it.

Minn. Stat. Ann. § 145.905 (West 2002) provides that a mother may breastfeed in any location, public, or private, where the mother and child are otherwise authorized to be, irrespective of whether the nipple of the mother’s breast is uncovered during or incidental to the breastfeeding.



Edited by autumn 2006-11-21 4:05 PM
2006-11-21 4:00 PM
in reply to: #605417

molto veloce mama
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Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."
not all kids take bottles. and why bring a bottle if you have free, warm, fresh, built in beverages already?
2006-11-21 4:02 PM
in reply to: #605620

Buttercup
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Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."
dontracy - 2006-11-21 4:57 PM
tkbslc -

many women feel inadequate or guilty if they cannot or choose not to breastfeed.

That's true.  I see it particularly in the so-called progressive community I live in.  There is pressure on women to do it the "right" way. 

Ummm my sis had trouble lactating and nobody (nurses in hospital) hassled her about it. They just sent her home with formula samples.

2006-11-21 4:07 PM
in reply to: #605301

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."

My wife breastfed each of our girls for about 5 months while she was on maternity, she then switched to formula when she went back to work.  My wife felt guilty about not breast feeding anymore, but logistically it was getting difficult to impossible. 

 

2006-11-21 4:09 PM
in reply to: #605620

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Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."
dontracy - 2006-11-21 3:57 PM

tkbslc -

many women feel inadequate or guilty if they cannot or choose not to breastfeed.

That's true.  I see it particularly in the so-called progressive community I live in.  There is pressure on women to do it the "right" way. 



Don't remember exact specifics, but my brother-in-law actually did not let my sister do certain things (shopping/working out) if she was going to miss an actual feeding where in place of it my parents would do the feeding with a bottle (baby was totally adapted to both - I know some aren't). My sister thought it was a bit much, but she is a pleaser and let the breast feeding cop (BIL) set the schedule. There are other things that are at play here, but my sister felt the pressure to nurse all the time, no subsitutions. Maybe my BIL was feeling the pressures of doing it right as well.


2006-11-21 4:11 PM
in reply to: #605650

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."
shadowfax - 2006-11-21 5:09 PM
dontracy - 2006-11-21 3:57 PM
tkbslc -

many women feel inadequate or guilty if they cannot or choose not to breastfeed.

That's true.  I see it particularly in the so-called progressive community I live in.  There is pressure on women to do it the "right" way. 

Don't remember exact specifics, but my brother-in-law actually did not let my sister do certain things (shopping/working out) if she was going to miss an actual feeding where in place of it my parents would do the feeding with a bottle (baby was totally adapted to both - I know some aren't). My sister thought it was a bit much, but she is a pleaser and let the breast feeding cop (BIL) set the schedule. There are other things that are at play here, but my sister felt the pressure to nurse all the time, no subsitutions. Maybe my BIL was feeling the pressures of doing it right as well.

Men benefit from breastfeeding too, no getting up in the middle of the night.

2006-11-21 4:18 PM
in reply to: #605650

Crystal Lake, IL
Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."

shadowfax - 2006-11-21 4:09 PM  but my brother-in-law actually did not let my sister do certain things (shopping/working out) if she was going to miss an actual feeding

This blows me away.  Novel concept that a man should feel the right to have, much less try to enforce an opinion on the subject.  If it worked for them, so be it.  It never dawned on me that I could/should have a thought about it.  We've had mixed experiences, mostly successful breastfeeding with our three but whether it was bottle or breast it was always completely up to her, when, where, how, whatever.  When she wanted to breast feed in public, which was not often but did happen, I only felt it was my job to go into protective mode, watch for pervs or anti-breastfeeders and be prepared to kick a$$.

 



Edited by hangloose 2006-11-21 4:19 PM
2006-11-21 4:20 PM
in reply to: #605662

Sydney Australia
Subject:
2006-11-21 4:22 PM
in reply to: #605636

Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."
Renee -

Ummm my sis had trouble lactating and nobody (nurses in hospital) hassled her about it. They just sent her home with formula samples.

Good.  That's the way it ought to be.

So much to write about on this subject.  Too late for me to think clearly.

My wife had trouble bringing in enough milk during the first two weeks of our youngest's life.  So our neighbor came over several times a day and they tag team breast fed him.  Not typical these days, I guess. 

Home birthing helped.  Here are the photos again of our youngest's birth. 

Thank goodness for modern obstetrics.  At the same time, it often seems like pregancy and birth are treated like a disease.  Very confusing. 

2006-11-21 4:25 PM
in reply to: #605662

COURT JESTER
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ROCKFORD, IL
Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."
hangloose - 2006-11-21 3:18 PM

 When she wanted to breast feed in public, which was not often but did happen, I only felt it was my job to go into protective mode, watch for pervs or anti-breastfeeders and be prepared to kick a$$.

AMEN REV!!!!!



2006-11-21 4:28 PM
in reply to: #605649

molto veloce mama
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Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."
this is unfortunate. as mentioned above, a lot of women feel guilty if breastfeeding doesn't work out - physically or logistically. i used to go to a playgroup that was very 'progressive', but i eventually quit because it tended to be mean spirited. instead of feeling proud that they had been able to breastfeed, many of the moms spoke badly about moms who did, or could, not breastfed. it really made me angry. i am very proud that i breastfed for 5 years total, but that doesn't make me a better mom. i know one mom who breastfed and did 'AP' at face value but was not a very engaged parent in the ways that mater. i have friends who wanted to breastfed, but couldn't for one reason or another. just one of the many overly critical, guilt ridden aspects of parenthood.

still, i think that all the pressure to breastfeed from some, is balanced by the statistics and family histories of using formula. many people of my parents generation see breastfeeding as second to formula. why would you nurse when you could use formula. so, there is pressure on both sides...again, just like many of the other choices we make as parents.
2006-11-21 4:29 PM
in reply to: #605673

Sydney Australia
Subject:


Edited by misscullen 2006-11-21 4:30 PM
2006-11-21 4:30 PM
in reply to: #605680

Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."

autumn - i know one mom who breastfed and did 'AP' at face value but was not a very engaged parent in the ways that mater...

Right. That's what I was trying to get at with my other post to tkbslc. It's like the politics of it is more important than the reason for doing it.



Edited by dontracy 2006-11-21 4:34 PM
2006-11-21 4:36 PM
in reply to: #605684

Buttercup
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Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."

You know, mothers feel incredible pressure to do what is right for their child. The worst is the self-imposed pressure. Who cares WHY they breastfeed? Do we need to scrutinize or criticize their motives for breastfeeding? Mommies have enough pressure on them as it is. Small wonder mothers sit around and criticize other mothers - heaven forfend they have the wrong attitude or make a mistake! I remember my sister in tears because her son was ill and she felt helpless and like she was a poor mother because she didn't know what was wrong or how to help him (other than taking him to the doctor). Let's show a bit more love for the mothers out there, eh?

2006-11-21 4:36 PM
in reply to: #605682

Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."

- I love how all the beds were in the room and people were crashing everywhere...

Thanks, Laura.

Maybe we can get into a discussion about family beds sometime.   I know if any forum is up for it, COJ is up for it.



2006-11-21 4:36 PM
in reply to: #605624

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2006-11-21 4:38 PM
in reply to: #605301

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2006-11-21 4:41 PM
in reply to: #605301

Elite
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South Florida
Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."

First, I would never put a blanket over my baby's head while nursing.  It's uncomfortable for me, uncomfortable for them and just not at all necessary.  My kids kick all their blankets off now, I know they wold have done the same then.

Second, I can't believe someone would suggest a nursing mom "just bring a bottle" to skip the "problems" they might encounter if they nurse in public.  My kids wouldn't take bottles, but even if they did I would only use them at times when I wasn't there.  Why in the world would I give them one when I'm holding them?   Also, I'm pretty sure most of the people who say this have never pumped a full bottle (or two or three you might need for a plane ride) of milk from their own breast.  It's a pain in the butt  again, why do that when I'm right there with the real thing?

For the record I've been breastfeeding for a total of 4 years and 4 months as of now.  And Christopher is still going strong and doesn't look like he wants to give it up any time soon.  I've nursed in public in so many places I couldn't keep track - airports (Boston, New York, Chicago, Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Palm Beach) as well as on every flight I've ever taken with the kids, museums (including in the Versailles room at the Met in NYC), restaurants, sidewalks, malls, the display bed at Macy's..... 

2006-11-21 4:47 PM
in reply to: #605700

molto veloce mama
9311
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Subject: RE: "Breasts - Not just for selling cars anymore."
you go, amy!

i'm w/ her.

i had nursing tops...but eventually i just didn't feel the need to cover up constantly. in certain places, and in certain company...and i was't flashing people, but i wasn't hiding it either.
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