What's your energy drink?

Forum guidelines BT super discount
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » What's your energy drink? Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 2
 
 
2004-01-08 4:00 AM

User image

Expert
774
5001001002525
England
Subject: What's your energy drink?

I'm currently working on my base endurance work and doing long run & bike workouts at low intensity, twice each a week. I'm now out for an hour or so each time and adding 10% per week, and am feeling like I should be using an energy drink for the longer sessions. I recently started using SIS Rego recovery drink (carbs & protein) after each session but have read a lot saying when training anything over 30 mins we should be using an energy/fluid replacement drink rather than just water.

The thing is, I don't really want to add more processed stuff to my diet. I try to eat a diet as free of processed foods as possible with loads of meat, fruit, fish, veg, dairy etc and am sure there must be some great ways to make a reasonable energy drink without getting it from a can/bottle. I tried a 3:1 waterJ mix last week and just wondered if anyone else had some effective recipes for homemade solutions? The Rego is very convenient but I don't want to use another processed product if I can help it.

2004-01-08 4:35 AM
in reply to: #3379

User image

Expert
774
5001001002525
England
Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
That was supposed to say "3:1 water to OJ" but it decided to put in a smilie instead
2004-01-08 4:49 AM
in reply to: #3379

Member
40
25
Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
Dextrose, Protein Powder, and water.


Dextrose [glucose] is a simple sugar that can be found in most home brewing stores. It can also be found online.

I have seen a 2:1 carb:protein ratio recommended for recovery after weight lifting, and I am not sure how I would adjust that for a majority aerobic (as opposed to anaerobic) exercise. The carbs should produce an insulin spike and shuttle the glucose and protein to your muscle to refill the glycogen stores and repair the muscle.

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/importance.htm
2004-01-08 5:02 AM
in reply to: #3383

User image

Expert
774
5001001002525
England
Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?

Ssyba - excellent article, thanks.

I have started to use SIS Rego as a recovery drink, which is as describd in the article, a 2:1 carb:protein that gives 50g carb, 27g protein per shake. I'm 80kg so I guess that isn't too far from his recommended 0.8g/kg carb rating, and as you suggest, maybe aerobic exercise needs less to fuel recovery????

I'll have a look for dextrose and maybe do what he suggests, acknowledge that processed foods in this instance may be the better bet, when combined with a generally good diet??

I'm also trying to shift that last kg of bodyfat so am trying to be careful to consume enough calories to recover properly but also slightly less than I need in total, to burn a little more fat. I've lost 10kg's in the last 3 months and dropped to 16% BF but want to get to 14% by end Feb.

2004-01-08 5:27 AM
in reply to: #3384

Member
40
25
Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
It is a bit confusing, but all throughout the day you should trying to avoid the processed foods (like you have been doing) and stay away from sugars and high GI (glycemic index) foods to keep your blood sugar and insulin levels stable.

But after a workout there is that window of opportunity to quickly shuttle the neccesary nutrients to repair your body. In that case you want the most simple of sugars (to reduce the body's processing time). The only thing that making your own will do is save you money.

Looking at the ingredients of your SIS Rego: Maltodextrin (produced by partial hydrolysis of a special variety of maize, 98% glucose polymers), Soya Protein Isolate, Fructose, Vitamins and Minerals, Xanthan, Lecithin, Natural Flavour and Colouring, Aspartame..

  • ... so the main ingredients are Maltodextrin and Protein powder. Maltodextrin is virtually the same as dextrose and can probably be found at the same brew shop (or online). I find that dextrose is a bit better tasting (sweeter) and a little easier to mix.


    • If you are still trying to lose bf, then you should experiement on the carb ratio. I usually do a 1:1 ratio, b/c I still have some bf to lose.

    It really is all trial and error.
    2004-01-08 6:00 AM
    in reply to: #3379

    User image

    Expert
    774
    5001001002525
    England
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?

    I think I may experiment a little as you suggest. The Rego seems good, taste & mixing etc. I think I'll see how the longer sessions go and possibly try making up one of the energy drinks as you suggest, and just reduce my calorie intake somewhere else to compensate until I get to the target weight.

    Thanks for your help

    2004-01-08 6:36 AM
    in reply to: #3379

    User image

    Expert
    713
    500100100
    Rockledge, Fl
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
    You already got some good tips. I hadn't heard the 2:! ratio, everything I had heard was 4:1 for both endurance and bodybuilding right after workout and then eat a regular meal about an hour later. I use Endurox R4 for recovery drink. On long runs, I use Gu or Power Gel every 30mins starting at the 45min point. Of course, get a Fuel Blet to carry water with you. Water is the most important thing you need during workout. I hadn't tried any drinks yet, but I did just buy Accelerade (same vendor as Enduraox) for cycling which has some protein in it for during workout. I also stay away from processed foods when I can, but the Gu is so easy to carry in my Fuel Belt along with water. When I start going long again, I will try carrying half water and half Accelerade to experiment with.

    The biggest thing is to try different things and see what is best for you. I have seen people who can't handle Gu or Power Gel, others who swear by them. I use both with no problem and my long runs did get much better when I started using them.
    2004-01-08 8:14 AM
    in reply to: #3379

    User image

    Expert
    774
    5001001002525
    England
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?

    I'd forgotten that I have a drink belt - camelbac waste pack with bladder & tube etc - which is awesome in hotter weather when u need a fair bit of water, but not always the easiest thing to clean out after a mixed drink. More recently I've been carrying one of those 'O' shaped bottles that holds about 1/2 pint of water, but when it's cold it can get chilly to hold! I think I need to get the belt out again and start using that......

    On the subject of good old OJ - is this any good at all? I guess it is just fruit sugars (fructose???) which probably do a similar thing to other basic sugars??

    2004-01-08 8:28 AM
    in reply to: #3397

    Member
    40
    25
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
    Bigpikle - 2004-01-08 10:14 AM

    On the subject of good old OJ - is this any good at all? I guess it is just fruit sugars (fructose???) which probably do a similar thing to other basic sugars??



    OJ is good for Vitamin C.
    But for health, it is better to eat an orange (or any fruit) as opposed to the juice because of the fiber.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Re: Fructose

  • .fructose-sweetened foods and drinks go through a conversion process during digestion that makes them more likely to be stored as fat and less likely to be used as energy.....

    • >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  • ...realize that the body prioritizes use of glycolysis intermediates in the following order:

    • 1-Reglycogenate muscle
    2-Reglycogenate liver
    3-Make fat

    Since fructose (mostly) skips step 1 and ignores the regulator in step 2 (phosphofructokinase), the result is that it quickly goes to step 3.

  • ..this makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint, in that consumption of fruit was most likely seasonal and in large amounts. This would tend to favor storage of the food energy obtained (as fat) for later use rather than wasting it (via excretion). think portly polynesian.

    • http://www.aracnet.com/~dputzolu/CKD/FructoseMetabolism.html

    and......

    http://www.nfpt.com/Library/Articles/fruit.htmlfrom the NFPT Personal Trainer Magazine

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Glucose (dextrose & maltodextrin) goes to step 1 first.
    Sucrose (table sugar) is 50% glucose/50% fructose
    High Fructose Corn Syrup is generally 55% glucose/45% fructose

    I don't know what the breakdown of OJ is as far as glucose vs fructose, but I am pretty sure it isn't 100% fructose. All that said.... I love a glass of fresh squeezed OJ after a workout.

    Edited by ssyba 2004-01-08 8:29 AM
    2004-01-08 8:35 AM
    in reply to: #3399

    User image

    Expert
    774
    5001001002525
    England
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?

     I nominate that for the most comprehensive reply to any question yet posted!!!!  ;-)

    You obviously have a great depth of knowledge on nutrition so thanks for sharing it with us. I'll go back to your first response and follow the advice there - I certainly dont want something that may make it more difficult to shift those last couple of pounds!

    BP

    2004-01-08 8:36 AM
    in reply to: #3397

    User image

    Expert
    713
    500100100
    Rockledge, Fl
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
    I would say give the OJ a try (maybe diluted). One possible concern is the amount of ctric acid in the juice. I live in Florida and eat a lot of ornages, but if I eat too many, I get those canker sores in my mouth from the acid.



    2004-01-08 8:38 AM
    in reply to: #3399

    User image

    Expert
    713
    500100100
    Rockledge, Fl
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
    Thanks for the great info ssyba. I know that many people use primarily maltodextrin for their shakes, etc because of what you pointed out. Stay away from Fructose wehn possible. It's in everything so makes it hard :-)
    2004-01-08 9:01 AM
    in reply to: #3379

    Member
    40
    25
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
    Like I said in my intro post... nutrition has been a bit of a hobby of mine for the last year or so, so I have accumlated alot of info about it.

    I have learning alot from some very knowledgable guys over at the Men's Health forum and will/have been copying much of that infomation to answer questions over here.

    I am curious to see how my views on nutrition will change with the amount of cardio training that I will be doing. Over the last year, I have mainly used weight training as my primary form of exercise so my diet has been protein heavy and carb light, but I imagine that I am gonig to have to add some extra carbs this year to give me the energy to train efficiently. But it seems like some of the triathlon training utilizes anaerobic exercise (which is the same as weight training), so my nutrition 'strategy' might not change that much after all.


    On a general basis, most of the people on this board have one of the two key ingredients for weight management : EXERCISE (the other being nutrition). For those that want to decrease their bodyfat, some minor/major modifications to their diet could really jumpstart positive transformations of their bodies.

    Edited by ssyba 2004-01-08 9:01 AM
    2004-01-08 9:06 AM
    in reply to: #3379

    Member
    40
    25
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
    sorry, for the addition post, but I just reread your initial post....

    My recommendation on the carb + protein was really only for post workout drink. I would think that during the long endurance session, you would want pure simple carbs for your 'energy drink'. You want something that your body has to spend as little energy as possible to process.
    2004-01-08 10:14 AM
    in reply to: #3379

    User image

    Expert
    713
    500100100
    Rockledge, Fl
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
    ssyba, I have the same scenario as you. Mostly weight training most of last year and started running second half. This year will focus more on tri training with less weights and will have to see how much needed to change nutrition. I was on BFL which is 40% protein and will slowly decrease protein % as energy level drops.

    As far as protein only for recovery, there are newer studies recommending protein (small amount) during endurance training. Accelerade is one such product. I seem to be fine with jus tthe GU, but want to see what difference the Accelerade makes. Gotta experiment :-) Also, for weight training, there are many camps who recommend a protein shake with L-Glutamine about 30 mins prior. (about 20g protein).

    Each person responds to different things. For example, if Arnold's routine worked for everyone, then there would be millions of people who like like him :-) His training book was standard for many years.
    2004-01-08 6:28 PM
    in reply to: #3379

    User image

    Central Louisiana
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
    For intense workouts and sprints I use clear orange Gatorade spikeed with orange hammer gel. I have found that you have to work on your nutrition just like you do each event you can find what works for you. Don't wait to the week of to figure it out. If you go to hammer gels site, they have some pretty good info on their knowledge link and you can download some good booklets on endurace nutrition. http://www.e-caps.com/index.cfm?flashdetect=yes

    2004-01-08 7:50 PM
    in reply to: #3379

    Extreme Veteran
    332
    10010010025
    PohangSi
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
    I buy a big can of the powdered gatorade and mix it myself. For long rides I take 3 bottles. I usually mix it about half of the recommended strength, 'cause I find that after an hour or so it's too thick/strong otherwise. If I'm riding more than 3 hours I'll buy gatorade or powerade or whatever they have at a store and water and refill 1/2 and 1/2 again. I supplement this with cliff bars and gels.
    JD
    2004-01-08 8:54 PM
    in reply to: #3379

    Expert
    680
    500100252525
    NC Illinois
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
    When doing base training, i.e. "slow, long stuff" ... I don't think you want to drink anything besides water. Part of the point of doing this stuff (aerobic training) is to get your body to use fat for energy (as oppossed to glucose, glycogen, etc as in anaerobic training).

    So to drink an "energy drink" during base training is basically counterproductive. Your body will use the ingested sugar as quick as it can, rather than burn the fat for energy.

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    At home brew stores .... I believe it's maltodextrin you're thinking of, not glucose. maltodextrin is like 3 bucks for bag. It's also the main ingredient in "Weight Gains Shakes" ... Oh, you'll gain weight all right, but eating that much sugar ... ther weight won't be muscle.

    --------------------------------------------------------
    Seriously, unless you're going to be out for 3+ hours (or so), I'd just drink water, so that your body becomes more efficient in slow, long training.

    Save the energy drinks for repetitive speed work or racing.

    FWIW, an hour is not considered a "long session". I did the same thing you are doing when i first started out, and I'm thankful that someone corrected me.

    but have read a lot saying when training anything over 30 mins we should be using an energy/fluid replacement drink rather than just water

    By chance, would the authors of said articles be the owners/producers of supplement or energy drink companies? If endurance sports is anything like weight lifting, bodybuilding, etc .... supplements are marginal at increasing performance at best. Most supplements do a far better job at seperating you from your money than they do ensuring any of the claims that they make.

    -----------------------------------------

    Here's something else to consider ... if you do an hour of long, slow training ... you'll likely burn 300 calories doing that. Well, a decent amount of post-workout energy drink is going to counteract that caloric deficiency you just created. So, if there's any chance you have some weight to lose, an energy drink negates the exercise you just did.

    --------------------------------------

    Again, part of the long, slow training is to increase the bodyy's efficiency at using a different (from speed training) energy source/system (I won't get into it here). By consuming an energy drink, you ar einterferring with the process. Your body will recover just fine w/o the post-workout drink (or during training drink) provided you get the nutrients (food) and sleep you need. Your body will do "more with less", which is what increasing efficiency is all about.

    Something to think about.

    The supplement trap is an easy one to fall into.
    2004-01-08 11:14 PM
    in reply to: #3379

    User image

    Veteran
    249
    10010025
    Lubbock, TX
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
    This may sound dumb, but am I wrong to assume that anyone requiring high enery drinks during and/or after workouts probably have very low body fat? Me on the other hand, I probably could sustain myself with only fresh water for a number of days on a deserted island.
    2004-01-08 11:18 PM
    in reply to: #3379

    Expert
    680
    500100252525
    NC Illinois
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
    If that be the case, it would be necessary to keep the body from breaking down muscle to make sugars (gluconeogenesis) ... but that likely wouldn't happen after an hour session where a small amount of calories are used up.

    I don't know exact numbers, but GSSI could likely help ... but I'd bet that anything under 2 hours doesn't require anything more than water ... especially if "base training".
    2004-01-09 12:30 AM
    in reply to: #3397


    30
    25
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
    oj is high glycemic which isnt great for training - a lot of elite cycling coaches wld recommend watered down apple juice bc its low glycemic, and thus, will not spike your insulin level. this is great for training bc you keep blood sugar high enough not to bonk but not so high that you ramp your insulin. for long road races, and tris, i wld recommend whatever energy drink your stomach will tolerate. i used to blend accelerade and cytomax - some protein is good bc it helps replenish your muscles during a workout and will keep you fresher for the end of a race. i actually doubted this at first but found it to be accurate. endurox r4 is an excellent recovery drink esp if youre trying to lose weight bc it has enough cals to fill you up and take away some post workout hunger while still providing the carbs and proteins in a 4:1 ration that you should strive for to aid recovery.

    2004-01-09 2:26 AM
    in reply to: #3459

    User image

    Expert
    774
    5001001002525
    England
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?

    Great responses to my question, so thanks all of you for your input. It just goes to show that even with all the 'science' quoted in sport there are no clear solutions!

    TT - your response really resonates with me, as I am definitely trying to build base endurance and do what you mentioned, get my muscles to learn how to fuel themselves from fat more efficiently. It would certainly make sense to avoid carb drinks with that as an objective. I remember using an energy drink a couple of years ago when I was regularly running 2hrs in the summer and 'feeling' better for it but I'm not doing the same thing here yet, so will take your advice and see how I get on. I anticipate max sessions of 90 mins as I'm focused on sprints only this summer and will try a half marathon in the autumn.

    The recovery drink helps me ensure decent post exercise nutrition as my daily routine is so varied my meals dont always fit well with my training plan. I do try and compensate for the calorie intake though as I still have the last few pounds to lose. Still managing approx 0.5lbs fat loss per week currently that feels just right at the moment. Hopefully I'll be at target weight by end Feb which is also when I plan to start more intense run/bike training.

    Thanks all

    BP

    2004-01-09 4:54 AM
    in reply to: #3447

    Member
    40
    25
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
    TripleThreat - 2004-01-08 10:54 PM
    At home brew stores .... I believe it's maltodextrin you're thinking of, not glucose. maltodextrin is like 3 bucks for bag.

    Actually I have bought both maltdextrin and dextrose at home brew stores.


    TripleThreat - 2004-01-08 10:54 PM

    Your body will recover just fine w/o the post-workout drink (or during training drink) provided you get the nutrients (food) and sleep you need. Your body will do "more with less", which is what increasing efficiency is all about.



    I agree with most everything you have said here, except the comment about post-workout. (in my opinion) Yes, your body will repair itself given the nutrients and sleep you need, but it will repair itself much faster if you utilize that post workout window to help your body heal and recover. That scenario is better for everybody, because if you body spends all day repairing itself from the workout you did in the AM, where is the "rest". When does your body get some down time?

    TripleThreat - 2004-01-08 10:54 PM
    The supplement trap is an easy one to fall into.


    I completely agree. One of the many reasons why I make my own PWO drinks. That article written by Berardi above pushes his own product at the end, but I have read enough of his stuff to believe that it isn't all greed based research.

    Edited by ssyba 2004-01-09 4:55 AM
    2004-01-09 5:06 AM
    in reply to: #3447

    User image

    Central Louisiana
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
    As a big guy my nutrional needs in a two hour work out are totally different than others. My body goes through more in a sprint than 80 percent of the racers at the same event. After passing out and bonking at several events, I had to find something that worked for me. Yeah it doesn't work for everybody but that is exacty why you find what works for you. Energy drink was not the sole answer for me, it came down to working out some details in my diet and pre race nutrition. Absorb all the knowlege from the post and what you can find to read and make your best educated decision on what to do for yourself.

    As far as the articles that I recommended from Hammer Gel, if you will look at them, they do recommend some of their product in the articles, but they do have some great information within them also. They are a great free source of information.

    2004-01-09 5:44 AM
    in reply to: #3379

    Expert
    680
    500100252525
    NC Illinois
    Subject: RE: What's your energy drink?
    I agree with most everything you have said here, except the comment about post-workout.

    We're comparing optimal vs. required here.

    It is optimal to have a PW drink, b/c your body is depleted and is literally starving for nutrients. When you drink a PW drink, it's get soaked up like a sponge. No matter what activity you're doing ... tennis, lifting, running, etc ... a PW drink is beneficial.

    But, you can make due without one.



    Edited by TripleThreat 2004-01-09 6:04 AM
    New Thread
    General Discussion Triathlon Talk » What's your energy drink? Rss Feed  
     
     
    of 2