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2007-10-18 1:04 PM
in reply to: #1013889

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Subject: RE: Critique me please
wurkit_gurl - 2007-10-18 1:42 PM
rollinbones - 2007-10-18 1:35 PM

In a perfect world, we'd all hire coaches,

I know the standard answer around here to every question is "hire a coach"

Disagree w/ your first point. And your second is a sweeping generalization. Strong finish w/ the cookies though  



2007-10-18 1:06 PM
in reply to: #1013872

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Subject: RE: Critique me please
rollinbones - 2007-10-18 12:35 PM

or, you can customize your own plan (for free) from the many that are out there. Personnally, I just don't get the virtual coach thing. flame away.

 

MikeTheBear - 2007-10-18 1:28 PM I agree that the training plans on here can be a bit light, but I think the plans are geared to just finishing the distance as opposed to placing. The idea of getting a custom plan designed by a coach is a good one. You're a good candidate for a customized plan because you have a good fitness base from other sports and you need to convert that fitness to tri-specific fitness. If you can't afford coaching, then one idea I'll throw out is to do a BT plan the next distance up. I actually did that this past season - I used a beginner Oly distance plan to race a sprint and it worked well. In your case you would be using a full IM plan, which would probably be overkill in some respects. But that's just an idea for you to play around with.

just out of curiosity, why? we might be able to debunk some misperceptions about waht some perceived as 'virtual' coaching
2007-10-18 1:15 PM
in reply to: #1013661

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Subject: RE: Critique me please
One concern that I would have with virtual coaching is that I would think getting your coaching in person might give you access to better equipment for measuring progress. A coach might have a power tap I could go ride that I wouldn't have to pay extra to use. A coach may also have access to VO2 testing or could get my lactic threshold HR more acurately estimated. Part of modern training is having access to this data to help an athlete reach his potential but all that data costs money to access. I would hope that a coach could help to reduce those costs but if I have to travel to MN or wherever to get access then I'm not really saving myself anything.

Oh and lmcgraw, you've had an awesome first season. I'm looking forward to seeing what you do next year. Great stuff.

Edited by stuartjeff 2007-10-18 1:16 PM
2007-10-18 1:44 PM
in reply to: #1013967

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Subject: RE: Critique me please

stuartjeff - 2007-10-18 2:15 PM One concern that I would have with virtual coaching is that I would think getting your coaching in person might give you access to better equipment for measuring progress. A coach might have a power tap I could go ride that I wouldn't have to pay extra to use. A coach may also have access to VO2 testing or could get my lactic threshold HR more acurately estimated. Part of modern training is having access to this data to help an athlete reach his potential but all that data costs money to access. I would hope that a coach could help to reduce those costs but if I have to travel to MN or wherever to get access then I'm not really saving myself anything. Oh and lmcgraw, you've had an awesome first season. I'm looking forward to seeing what you do next year. Great stuff.

Powertap, no; but computrainer sessions maybe. And, yes, many coaches will provide you with access to VO2 testing and LT testing, etc., but you will more than likely be paying extra for that (unless you have a very hooked up/expensive plan). And, I am sure there are coaches in your area; you don't need to use one in MN or elsewhere. And, you can get VO2 and LT testing by someone other than your coach and give the coach the results; and a virtual coach can easily review your power files.

2007-10-18 1:47 PM
in reply to: #1013926

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Subject: RE: Critique me please
 - LaurenSU02 Posted 2007-10-18 2:01 PM

But what if during that time in the pool, he just keeps reinforcing bad habits? Swim weaknesses and stroke mistakes are much easier to work on when someone else identifies them for you and tells/shows you how to fix them. A lot of people will be able be able to "get faster" on their already-poor stroke when they're first starting out. But, if he was already planning on getting a swim coach, getting one sooner than later would be much more beneficial. And, a swim coach doesn't have to be a long-term thing. Even a few sessions will help you improve so much more than no sessions.



Very true - but just a difference in opinion based on experience and personal preference after hearing what his swim concerns are. I would hammer out the breathing/sighting issues and see what results he gets. I would then look at cheaper tools rather than coaching. I value what coaches bring to the table but think a lot can be done without them. Then depeding on success I would consider getting coaching help later rather than sooner.

But that is a lot of "I would" - which doesn't matter. To each its own.




Edited by lmcgraw 2007-10-18 1:49 PM
2007-10-18 1:51 PM
in reply to: #1013661

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Subject: RE: Critique me please

One concern that I would have with virtual coaching is that I would think getting your coaching in person might give you access to better equipment for measuring progress. >>> Not always

A coach might have a power tap I could go ride that I wouldn't have to pay extra to use. >>> I don't personally know any coaches who lend their power meters to their clients for training but maybe is possible if the coach owns many? Still I know many coaches who don't even know how to use a power meter or interpret the data 

A coach may also have access to VO2 testing >>> unless he owns the equipments (very $$) works for a medical center or have access to the local sport physiology department of a local university.  

or could get my lactic threshold HR more acurately estimated >>> see above. Yes there are portable LT blood analyzer but *I* wouldn’t trust that more than a filed test. Still LT or VO2Max can be done by the athlete at a local lab and the coach could obtain copy of the results and use it to enhance the training. (btw, VO2Max is not that important) Still many coaches out there won’t know how to take advantage of said data. IOW it is not a virtual coaching issue but a knowledge/experience issue.

Part of modern training is having access to this data to help an athlete reach his potential but all that data costs money to access. >>> if an athlete has access to a GPS, HRM, Power Meter or all and a computer, a knowledgeable coach can get A LOT of useful data to help him/her achieve better results. Yes one-on-one coaching is nice as the coach can get a better feel for the athletes response to training. But nowadays that is 1) more expensive and 2) not very realistic for many athletes with jobs, family, and other priorities.



Edited by amiine 2007-10-18 1:52 PM


2007-10-18 2:21 PM
in reply to: #1013942

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Subject: RE: Critique me please

Jorge,

Let me start by saying I think you can offer valuable services. It's just not for me. First, I really enjoy the self motivation and planning aspects as well as the personal satisfaction I get from having done both on my own. Second, since it's such an expensive sport I choose to spend my money on other resources. Third, I feel that given my abilities (or lack therof) and time restraints, a virtual coach (or an actual coach for that matter) is only going to provide limited improvement. In other words, I may just go from MOP to FOMOP and I think I can accomplish that on my own.

Again, that's just my choice and it works for me. I certainly don't mean to diminish your profession or imply that what works for me is right for others.



Edited by rollinbones 2007-10-18 2:44 PM
2007-10-18 4:44 PM
in reply to: #1014123

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Subject: RE: Critique me please
rollinbones - 2007-10-18 2:21 PM

Jorge,

Let me start by saying I think you can offer valuable services. It's just not for me. First, I really enjoy the self motivation and planning aspects as well as the personal satisfaction I get from having done both on my own. Second, since it's such an expensive sport I choose to spend my money on other resources. Third, I feel that given my abilities (or lack therof) and time restraints, a virtual coach (or an actual coach for that matter) is only going to provide limited improvement. In other words, I may just go from MOP to FOMOP and I think I can accomplish that on my own.

Again, that's just my choice and it works for me. I certainly don't mean to diminish your profession or imply that what works for me is right for others.

no worries, I didn't take you post in a negative way at all. I was just curious cuz I've heard that before from other people and many times is just lack of information of what some of us offer as coaching services and I figured it could be a good way to maybe discuss that. That been said, I don't think it works for everyone and there are certainly many "coaches" out there offering poor advice/services and responsible for such perception.

Anyway, good luck at LP, maybe we can hookup up there for a training camp! I am definitely heading up there a few times next year to train with my guys and just cuz it is a great place for tri-geeks

2007-10-18 5:27 PM
in reply to: #1013854

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Subject: RE: Critique me please
Daremo - 2007-10-18 2:21 PM

All I will add is ..... respect the distance.  I didn't when I did my first and went into it thinking I could easily break 5.  I had a terrible day and barely broke 6.

Another year of run focused training, and a lot more time in the pool and I broke 5 at the same venue a year later.



x2 - the HIM is a very different animal and the distance deserves respect. Last season, I was in 2:21 OD shape and posted a 6:07 effort on what should have been a fairly fast course. I had expected to go around 5:30 with little difficulty and hoped to go sub 5:15 - a combination of pacing, nutrition and overall endurance resulted in a sub par day.

Shane
2007-10-18 5:58 PM
in reply to: #1013967

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Subject: RE: Critique me please
stuartjeff - 2007-10-18 3:15 PM

One concern that I would have with virtual coaching is that I would think getting your coaching in person might give you access to better equipment for measuring progress. A coach might have a power tap I could go ride that I wouldn't have to pay extra to use. A coach may also have access to VO2 testing or could get my lactic threshold HR more acurately estimated. Part of modern training is having access to this data to help an athlete reach his potential but all that data costs money to access. I would hope that a coach could help to reduce those costs but if I have to travel to MN or wherever to get access then I'm not really saving myself anything.


While having a local coach may give you access to lab testing, I don't personally know of any coaches who have PM's for their athletes to use. As for lab testing, while the information can be useful, for many athletes, an LT field test is going to just as useful for endurance training - especially since we don't race in the lab.

Shane
2007-10-18 8:02 PM
in reply to: #1013661

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Subject: RE: Critique me please

You have alot of good information here, so I won't go into much, especially since I am somewhat of a novice myself.  I did, however do TM this year in 5:15 and IMO, it is a fairly challenging course.  If you are not getting alot of hill work, then you should plan on it and rethink your position on not doing interval work. 

If you are not strong on the hills run and bike, and able to recover fast at the top, you will not break 5hr.

 



Edited by MikeJ 2007-10-18 8:07 PM


2007-10-18 10:35 PM
in reply to: #1013889

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Subject: RE: Critique me please
wurkit_gurl - 2007-10-18 12:42 PM
rollinbones - 2007-10-18 1:35 PM

or, you can customize your own plan (for free) from the many that are out there. Personnally, I just don't get the virtual coach thing. flame away.

 

MikeTheBear - 2007-10-18 1:28 PM I agree that the training plans on here can be a bit light, but I think the plans are geared to just finishing the distance as opposed to placing. The idea of getting a custom plan designed by a coach is a good one. You're a good candidate for a customized plan because you have a good fitness base from other sports and you need to convert that fitness to tri-specific fitness. If you can't afford coaching, then one idea I'll throw out is to do a BT plan the next distance up. I actually did that this past season - I used a beginner Oly distance plan to race a sprint and it worked well. In your case you would be using a full IM plan, which would probably be overkill in some respects. But that's just an idea for you to play around with.

Well, I think they're useful in a few ways - if you are using them as guidelines and designing your own plan around them, or if you can't afford a "real" coach - as I can't, and I'm sure others can't either. In a perfect world, we'd all hire coaches, but it's not possible for some of us, and esp. if you're first starting out, have never done a race and don't know if you'll even like doing it, it would be a waste of money, imho. In that respect, the virtual training plans are good for beginners to see if they like the sport. I know the standard answer around here to every question is "hire a coach", but really, we're not all made of money, and it might not be a financially solvent idea for some of us. Unless anyone wants to coach me for free I can pay in baked goods...

I completely agree and I didn't mean to imply that the BT plans were bad. They are quite good, especially for those who cannot afford a coach. But they are definitely geared towards beginners (nothing wrong with that, this is, after all, beginnertriathlete.com) and BOPers just looking to finish. Stuart has a good base of fitness and can do more than the beginner plans offer. A coach for him would be ideal. Otherwise, he can do what I did, because I can't afford a coach either, and do the plan for the next distance up.

2007-10-19 9:07 AM
in reply to: #1014845

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Subject: RE: Critique me please
MikeTheBear - 2007-10-18 10:35 PM

I completely agree and I didn't mean to imply that the BT plans were bad. They are quite good, especially for those who cannot afford a coach. But they are definitely geared towards beginners (nothing wrong with that, this is, after all, beginnertriathlete.com) and BOPers just looking to finish. Stuart has a good base of fitness and can do more than the beginner plans offer. A coach for him would be ideal. Otherwise, he can do what I did, because I can't afford a coach either, and do the plan for the next distance up.

SOME of the BT plans are geared towards beginners.  Some are most certainly not.

2007-10-19 9:22 AM
in reply to: #1015203

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Subject: RE: Critique me please
JohnnyKay - 2007-10-19 11:07 AM

MikeTheBear - 2007-10-18 10:35 PM

I completely agree and I didn't mean to imply that the BT plans were bad. They are quite good, especially for those who cannot afford a coach. But they are definitely geared towards beginners (nothing wrong with that, this is, after all, beginnertriathlete.com) and BOPers just looking to finish. Stuart has a good base of fitness and can do more than the beginner plans offer. A coach for him would be ideal. Otherwise, he can do what I did, because I can't afford a coach either, and do the plan for the next distance up.

SOME of the BT plans are geared towards beginners.  Some are most certainly not.



JK beat me to it - many of the plans here are definitely beyond the beginner level.

Have a look at some of the Silver/Gold plan details - it may be worthwhile for the OP to upgrade membership to access these plans. They are very solid plans that will help many experienced athletes improve.

Shane
2007-10-19 6:20 PM
in reply to: #1013895

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Subject: RE: Critique me please

stuartjeff - 2007-10-18 11:46 AM I'd be willing to consider coaching. It would certainly be helpful to get an unbiased opinion of someone who has trained others towards similar goals. That said, I tried a coach when I started training for my Oly and didn't care for it. I got a guy that I could visit in person who made up workouts for me but I just wasn't getting the level of feedback that I was looking for. I'm a super geeky person who wants to understand the how's and why's of what I am doing. I've read several training and human physiology books and I can understand the lingo so I'd like to be involved in the process. If I could find a coach who was willing to not only prescribe workouts but would also make him or herself available for questions and would give feedback then I'd be far more willing to hire one. Any thoughts on finding somebody like that?

Here's my "flameable" opinion.

 1) virtual coaching is a waste of money if you want to truly reach  your potential; which you'll have to do to hit 5hr.

2) 5hr is a big goal, but not unreachable.  i've seen nobs get to that mark with good coaching and following (aka not skipping or skimping) on the workouts given to them

3) don't underestimate the swim.  many triathletes do.  they think since its the shortest part of the race they should spend the least amount of time at it...not true (in my flameable opinion) because there is a HUGE about of fitness that is gained from good time in the pool that transfers over to cycling and running (aka cardiovascular fitness).

4) I just PMd you my coach's info.  talk to him about the 3 points above and see what he says about it.  he's the pro...not I...I just know the results of doing what the pro says. 

irrespective of what you choose, good luck hitting your goal man!!!  You should be one proud son of a beetch if you hit it.  5hr is nothing to shake a stick at!

 

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