General Discussion Triathlon Talk » TOTW: The Mental Game Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 2
 
 
2008-08-30 8:11 AM

User image

Master
1730
100050010010025
Atlanta, GA
Subject: TOTW: The Mental Game


Moderator Note: This will be the Topic of the week for 9-1-8 through 9-7-8. This is a topic that's near and dear to me. The Psychology of racing. Probably my favorite overall topic and the area I find most interesting.




I have been spending a little time on the "mental game" associated with racing.  I had a really bad mental day at KS 70.3 and took it to heart to improve that aspect of my training. I came across a very interesting article in the NY Times.

 

Interested read at:  I am not running...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/06/health/nutrition/06Best.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1197907725-bOvCrIc6STZ8NjAWErhV1Q

They talk about some mental games to play during running and the improvements that it showed.  Here is part of the article:

Dr. Morgan, who tested the method in research studies, said he was inspired by a story, reported by an anthropologist that, he suspects, is apocryphal. It involves Tibetan monks who reportedly ran 300 miles in 30 hours, an average pace of six minutes a mile. Their mental trick was to fixate on a distant object, like a mountain peak, and put their breathing in synchrony with their locomotion. Every time a foot hit the ground they would also repeat a mantra.

So Dr. Morgan and his colleagues instructed runners to say “down” to themselves every time a foot went down. They were also to choose an object and stare at it while running on a treadmill and to breathe in sync with their steps. The result, Dr. Morgan said, was that the runners using the monks’ strategy had a statistically significant increase in endurance, doing much better than members of a control group who ran in their usual way.

Interested how others handle the mental side of things and not just the hard parts of the race. 



2008-08-30 8:31 AM
in reply to: #1639216

User image

Master
2485
2000100100100100252525
Atlanta, Georgia
Subject: RE: The Mental Game
Something about the breathing and fixating technique described makes intuitive sense..The monks covering 300mi in 30hrs borders on the unbelievable, though.

Interesting article..
2008-08-30 8:45 AM
in reply to: #1639216

User image

Alpharetta, GA
Subject: RE: The Mental Game
Great article, thanks
2008-08-30 9:12 AM
in reply to: #1639216

Member
47
25
Atlanta
Subject: RE: The Mental Game
Good Article... Very interesting.

The story of 300 Miles in 30 hours kinds of reminds me of an article in Mens Health about a year ago. It was along the lines of way back before there was a bow and arrow people would run animals to death.... this would sometimes mean running 30 miles chasing animals until they overheated... humans sweat as we all know to cool down but these animals do not sweat so at some point they overheat and die.

Very interesting all these old running things. I believe that the artilce in mens health was called 'born to run' or something like that, maybe someone could find it.
2008-09-02 7:06 AM
in reply to: #1639216

User image

Master
1730
100050010010025
Atlanta, GA
Subject: RE: The Mental Game
Here is an example of a tough metal game....I read a report that Gollnick got a piece of glass in her foot in T1, pulled it out and continued on to 2nd place in IM LOU.  You can't coach that...
2008-09-02 7:23 AM
in reply to: #1639216

User image

Master
2021
2000
Alpharetta, GA
Subject: RE: The Mental Game
Interesting....

I breath per foot strike, three in, three out in a relaxed pace. As I speed up that decreases to two in, two out, etc...

I stair at the ground about five feet in front of me. It puts me in automatic pilot and a comfort zone. In my mind, it is like dealing with whatever is at hand. e.g. flats, hills, etc.. I just deal with the five feet in front, and don't worry about the rest. Just deal with five feet at a time.


2008-09-02 7:41 AM
in reply to: #1639216

User image

Master
2125
200010025
Subject: RE: The Mental Game

Some great philosopher once said you become what you think.  I continue to learn that your outside self is the reflection of your ongoing inner conversation.  And that includes the mental game of racing too.

On a larger life note, I have spent the past 6 months trying to recognize and let go of or avoid negative thoughts and energy; at the same time trying to capture and display positive energy.  It is more difficult than it sounds.

Late in a HIM, I will say positive things to everyone that is around me "you are doing awesome", "you look good", "way to go", etc.  Just doing this will improve my spirits and keep me going. 

2008-09-02 7:59 AM
in reply to: #1642717

User image

Master
1730
100050010010025
Atlanta, GA
Subject: RE: The Mental Game

Coldfire - 2008-09-02 8:23 AM Interesting.... I breath per foot strike, three in, three out in a relaxed pace. As I speed up that decreases to two in, two out, etc... I stair at the ground about five feet in front of me. It puts me in automatic pilot and a comfort zone. In my mind, it is like dealing with whatever is at hand. e.g. flats, hills, etc.. I just deal with the five feet in front, and don't worry about the rest. Just deal with five feet at a time.

I played with the breathing on my tempo run.  I found two breaths in and one long out put me a zone...as long as I held it to that rhythm, I ran very well.  However, at the end, I let the hurt distract me from the rhythm and sure enough, pace fell off.  I am really going to work on it this month to see if I can find some consistancy for the Buckhead Sizzler.

2008-09-02 8:47 AM
in reply to: #1639216

User image

Pro
3883
20001000500100100100252525
Woodstock,GA
Subject: RE: The Mental Game
This is HUGE as far as performance goes. Bobby McGee is big on training the mind as well as the body. I subscribe to his philsophy of continuous positive self-talk and positive affirmations  (I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and dog gone it people like me). It is proven that if you tell yourself you are a strong runner or that you feel strong even if you don't believe it , you will eventually come around to that way of thinking.
2008-09-02 9:55 AM
in reply to: #1639216

User image

Veteran
224
100100
Cumming, GA
Subject: RE: TOTW: The Mental Game
I was talking to a friend of mine who is a very experienced and successful marathon runner.  He said to ditch the mp3 player on runs.  He said that he ALWAYS runs faster without one.  He believes that we start to pace to the rythm of the music which is usually SLOWER than our normal pace.  I'm going to try it....although, the music does seem to relax and motivate me.
2008-09-02 12:04 PM
in reply to: #1643053

User image

Master
2021
2000
Alpharetta, GA
Subject: RE: TOTW: The Mental Game
abbagej - 2008-09-02 10:55 AM

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a very experienced and successful marathon runner.  He said to ditch the mp3 player on runs.  He said that he ALWAYS runs faster without one.  He believes that we start to pace to the rythm of the music which is usually SLOWER than our normal pace.  I'm going to try it....although, the music does seem to relax and motivate me.


I have heard that as well. I never run/ride/swim with music. I find it is a distraction, and one pays more attention to what song is on, and what is coming on next rather than what they are doing.


2008-09-02 12:07 PM
in reply to: #1642746

User image

Master
2021
2000
Alpharetta, GA
Subject: RE: The Mental Game
jonathan22 - 2008-09-02 8:41 AM
Late in a HIM, I will say positive things to everyone that is around me "you are doing awesome", "you look good", "way to go", etc.  Just doing this will improve my spirits and keep me going.

Agreed ^^^

IMO the mental game is just a part of it as the physical game.

When I find myself in "no mans land" where there is not a racer in front of me, nor behind me I cheer people on in any distance race. I find that after you say something positive, their face lights up and it brings extra energy to my legs. It is like a win/win.
2008-09-02 1:08 PM
in reply to: #1642746

User image

Master
2638
200050010025
Subject: RE: The Mental Game
jonathan22 - 2008-09-02 7:41 AM

Late in a HIM, I will say positive things to everyone that is around me "you are doing awesome", "you look good", "way to go", etc.  Just doing this will improve my spirits and keep me going. 

I try to do this in every race - it really helps me to (a) avoid thinking about the parts of me that are hurting/uncomfortable, and (b) maybe it helps those other racers a little bit.  My first race was the Hansgrohe Women's sprint and the whole race people were yelling encouragement: "you go girl"  "you look awesome" "keep it up" etc.  It was very uplifting for me (I'm getting misty just thinking about it) so I try to mimic that atmosphere.

2008-09-04 7:11 AM
in reply to: #1639216

User image

Pro
3705
20001000500100100
Vestavia Hills
Subject: RE: TOTW: The Mental Game

Do not forget that the mental game is also about anticipation and expectations.  Those who emphasize the latter end up burning a lot of energy on the former ... adn then set themselves up for failure if they do not believe that they will meet their goal at some point during the race.

This is particularly true for the longer distance races where you have more time and opportunity to recover from a particular set back.

I have passed many a stronger athlete who has blown themselves up physically by thinking too much on race day.

The key thing for me in this mental game is to relax on race day and to be positive.  The longer the race the more the opportunities abound for problem solving.

 

2008-09-04 9:38 AM
in reply to: #1648459

User image

Pro
3883
20001000500100100100252525
Woodstock,GA
Subject: RE: TOTW: The Mental Game
brian - 2008-09-04 8:11 AM

Do not forget that the mental game is also about anticipation and expectations.  Those who emphasize the latter end up burning a lot of energy on the former ... adn then set themselves up for failure if they do not believe that they will meet their goal at some point during the race.

This is particularly true for the longer distance races where you have more time and opportunity to recover from a particular set back.

I have passed many a stronger athlete who has blown themselves up physically by thinking too much on race day.

The key thing for me in this mental game is to relax on race day and to be positive.  The longer the race the more the opportunities abound for problem solving.

 

 

You are totally correct on that. Expectations vs what your body gives you on that particular day is why I have decided to not wear a watch or use any electronic devices during racing. I would get so anxious if I was off my swim time that I pushed to hard on the bike and then had a crappy run as a result. This year I have run stronger off the bike than ever before and I attribute this to racing as hard as I can on that given day and not worrying about time or splits.

2008-09-04 9:47 AM
in reply to: #1648869

User image

Pro
3705
20001000500100100
Vestavia Hills
Subject: RE: TOTW: The Mental Game

EXACTLY the point ... add to that cardiac drift, particular race day conditions (hot/cold, humidity, wind, whatever) and what you think you ought to do from training may or may not apply to that one day and how you feel on that particular day.

To me, the key thing to focus on during race day is to enjoy the experience of racing.  You have spent months putting hay in the barn.  You ought to at least enjoy the time spent burning it down.

Rocket Man - 2008-09-04 10:38 AM
brian - 2008-09-04 8:11 AM

Do not forget that the mental game is also about anticipation and expectations.  Those who emphasize the latter end up burning a lot of energy on the former ... adn then set themselves up for failure if they do not believe that they will meet their goal at some point during the race.

This is particularly true for the longer distance races where you have more time and opportunity to recover from a particular set back.

I have passed many a stronger athlete who has blown themselves up physically by thinking too much on race day.

The key thing for me in this mental game is to relax on race day and to be positive.  The longer the race the more the opportunities abound for problem solving.

 

 

You are totally correct on that. Expectations vs what your body gives you on that particular day is why I have decided to not wear a watch or use any electronic devices during racing. I would get so anxious if I was off my swim time that I pushed to hard on the bike and then had a crappy run as a result. This year I have run stronger off the bike than ever before and I attribute this to racing as hard as I can on that given day and not worrying about time or splits.



2008-09-04 10:15 AM
in reply to: #1639216

User image

Master
1404
1000100100100100
Atlanta, Ga
Subject: RE: TOTW: The Mental Game

Rhythmic breathing is one of the more important things you can do when racing hard. It also should be practiced in training. So much as one wrong, mis-timed breath, and your body is not functioning as it should. It's a loss of efficiency. 

When I am running hard, I have a strong inhale and a strong exhale. Those should be in synch with x number of steps. I am not sure cause I didn't count, but I think I was at 4 steps per inhale, 4 steps per exhale. To achieve the most efficient rhythem I could, I used a two syllable word .. syllable 1 on the inhale.. syllable 2 on the exhale.. 

It looks like this.. and yes, this is the word I used.

Inhale                                                   Exhale
Boooooooooosssssssssssssssssss     toooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnn

step       step        step        step           step       step        step        step

Repeated over and over and over...

2008-09-04 11:35 AM
in reply to: #1649012

User image

Master
2638
200050010025
Subject: RE: TOTW: The Mental Game

Every four steps!  Even when you are going fast?  Wow. 

 I do every 4 when I'm warming up, but I'm every 2 if going fast, even at half-mary distance.

2008-09-04 6:17 PM
in reply to: #1648900

User image

Veteran
224
100100
Cumming, GA
Subject: RE: TOTW: The Mental Game

OK.  Now you all have me freaked out! 

I have a sprint race in two weeks.  Originally, I was going to push the swim for a faster time, try to maintain a (faster) riding speed, and hit the run as hard as I could.  Then, I decided I wanted to be the first woman out of the water (I've been swimming 400 yards in 6 minutes easy, so I think this is doable), push the ride (above my regular speed. but knowing I'm going to get past because I'm slow), and just stretch the run in.  Instead, should I take the swim, recover in the ride (my weakest arm) and kill the run?

I'm so tense now.  I'm thinking about going "sans" HRM.  I'm such a control freak, I don't know if I can do that.  Yikes!

2008-09-04 9:07 PM
in reply to: #1650929

User image

Master
1730
100050010010025
Atlanta, GA
Subject: RE: TOTW: The Mental Game

abbagej - 2008-09-04 7:17 PM Originally, I was going to push the swim for a faster time, try to maintain a (faster) riding speed, and hit the run as hard as I could. 

This is off topic, but take a listen to Tri Talk about starting the swim too fast...you may change your mind a little...

2008-09-05 4:36 AM
in reply to: #1650929

User image

Master
2638
200050010025
Subject: RE: TOTW: The Mental Game

abbagej - 2008-09-04 6:17 PM I have a sprint race in two weeks.  Originally, I was going to push the swim for a faster time, try to maintain a (faster) riding speed, and hit the run as hard as I could.  Then, I decided I wanted to be the first woman out of the water (I've been swimming 400 yards in 6 minutes easy, so I think this is doable), push the ride (above my regular speed. but knowing I'm going to get past because I'm slow), and just stretch the run in.  Instead, should I take the swim, recover in the ride (my weakest arm) and kill the run?

 At my first race, the Roswell Bikes guy who was going around filling everyone's tires gave me the best sprint advice ever:  "In a Sprint, if it isn't hurting, you aren't going fast enough".  Kill the swim, Hammer the bike and Run as fast as you can.   :

 Note that this strategy will not work in a longer distance race.



2008-09-05 8:46 AM
in reply to: #1649012

User image

Master
2021
2000
Alpharetta, GA
Subject: RE: TOTW: The Mental Game
atl_runner - 2008-09-04 11:15 AM

Rhythmic breathing is one of the more important things you can do when racing hard. It also should be practiced in training. So much as one wrong, mis-timed breath, and your body is not functioning as it should. It's a loss of efficiency. 

When I am running hard, I have a strong inhale and a strong exhale. Those should be in synch with x number of steps. I am not sure cause I didn't count, but I think I was at 4 steps per inhale, 4 steps per exhale. To achieve the most efficient rhythem I could, I used a two syllable word .. syllable 1 on the inhale.. syllable 2 on the exhale.. 

It looks like this.. and yes, this is the word I used.

Inhale                                                   Exhale
Boooooooooosssssssssssssssssss     toooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnn

step       step        step        step           step       step        step        step

Repeated over and over and over...



Agreed ^^

I stated before that I use a three step count, but the other day I actually counted again and my breathing is on roughly four steps. I do not talk, or use the words as above, but count steps to regualate my inhale or exhail speed.
2008-09-05 9:33 AM
in reply to: #1651546

User image

Pro
3705
20001000500100100
Vestavia Hills
Subject: RE: TOTW: The Mental Game

True that ... for me I have notices that the time difference between swimming 'all out' vs. cruising at your normal threshold pace does not justify the expenditure of energy and resulting fatigue during the bike and run.

To demonstrate this, I did the following:

1) Swim a 1000 yds continuously, pushing it throughout the swim but not fast enough that your first half is significantly different than the second half.  Your average time per 100 yds is your threshold or t-pace.

2) Do 3x100 sprints, pushing it so hard that you are barely able to finish each.  Check your average time based upon the results and gauge how you feel.

3) Compare your t-pace + rate of perceived exertion (RPE) vs. your sprint pace + RPE.

The difference between my sprint pace vs. t-pace was roughly :10/100yds.  Over the course of an Olympic distance that :10 equates to approximately 163 seconds or 2:43 ... but the added exertion would add triple or quadriple that to the bike and run legs.

 

thecaptin - 2008-09-04 10:07 PM

abbagej - 2008-09-04 7:17 PM Originally, I was going to push the swim for a faster time, try to maintain a (faster) riding speed, and hit the run as hard as I could. 

This is off topic, but take a listen to Tri Talk about starting the swim too fast...you may change your mind a little...

2008-09-05 9:53 AM
in reply to: #1652442

User image

Master
2021
2000
Alpharetta, GA
Subject: RE: TOTW: The Mental Game
brian - 2008-09-05 10:33 AM

True that ... for me I have notices that the time difference between swimming 'all out' vs. cruising at your normal threshold pace does not justify the expenditure of energy and resulting fatigue during the bike and run.

To demonstrate this, I did the following:

1) Swim a 1000 yds continuously, pushing it throughout the swim but not fast enough that your first half is significantly different than the second half.  Your average time per 100 yds is your threshold or t-pace.

2) Do 3x100 sprints, pushing it so hard that you are barely able to finish each.  Check your average time based upon the results and gauge how you feel.

3) Compare your t-pace + rate of perceived exertion (RPE) vs. your sprint pace + RPE.

The difference between my sprint pace vs. t-pace was roughly :10/100yds.  Over the course of an Olympic distance that :10 equates to approximately 163 seconds or 2:43 ... but the added exertion would add triple or quadriple that to the bike and run legs.

 

thecaptin - 2008-09-04 10:07 PM

abbagej - 2008-09-04 7:17 PM Originally, I was going to push the swim for a faster time, try to maintain a (faster) riding speed, and hit the run as hard as I could. 

This is off topic, but take a listen to Tri Talk about starting the swim too fast...you may change your mind a little...



Agreed again, and I also think my relaxed (not super relaxed) pace is actually faster than my sprint over longer distances, say 1,000 or more. I would guess that my relaxed form is better than sprint form, thus it is faster and I can hold better form longer just slightly relaxed over killing myself.

I am sure on shorter stuff, say 500 meters or so, my sprint pace is faster buy I am done after that.
2008-09-05 11:51 AM
in reply to: #1639216

Extreme Veteran
597
500252525
Atlanta, GA
Subject: RE: TOTW: The Mental Game

Y'all just need to learn to relax and have fun.

New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » TOTW: The Mental Game Rss Feed  
 
 
of 2