Any tips on how to learn to push yourself? (Page 2)

Wow, these are all fantastic answers!  I like that you were told to go for it but were warned not to go there every time nor too often.  I want to concur that blowing up, while it sucks when it happens, it can teach you so much.  I blew up in my last marathon and I wouldn't take anything for that experience. 

Also too, your body may be listening to your mind more than you realize.  My last HM, I decided I wasn't running a HM but I was running a 5 mile race, then another 5 mile race, and then a 5K.  At mile 3, body said to slow down because I couldn't do this for another 10 miles and I told my body to shut up.  (First time I found out that my body knew how to pace itself.)  I held my 5 mile pace for 5 miles, then I held it for 5 more miles.  At mile 10, the body said that we needed to walk and I told it to stfu and do a 5k and we were doing it hard.  Mind and body PR that race.  {Then my body got the last laugh on me because we had do go out for another 6 miles because we were traininig for another race.  It locked and was a regular pain in the arse which was another good lesson because it told me what I couldn't do in my ultra.}

Awesome responses, thanks

A little background on myself to help explain the question and my answer.

Overweight/obese pretty much all my life, mostly obese.  Highest weight 230 lbs, 5'4".

6/3/09, dad falls down the stairs, hits head, dies, go to Venezuela to bury him same day, come back 7/2/09, 7/3/09 go into a 24 Hour Fitness, never come back out.  215 lbs.  15 mins elliptical, walk out, 20 mins, 30 mins, 45 mins, add some weights on machine.  9/1/09 take first group class, 3 a week, 5 a week, everyday, 2 a day, 3 a day, 4 a day, ~20-23 hours a week of group classes.  2-3 times a week a group strength class.

May 2010 first Sprint, no training, ~3:40.  May 2011 second Sprint, no training, ~2:40.  May 2012 third Spring with self-training, 2:00. 

1/2/12 (Monday), drop all group classes, start tri training.  April 2012 start with current coach.  Late April first Oly (3:05), Sept second Oly (~2:35), 10/20/12 first Half (7:56).

4/20/13 second Half, 6/23/13 IM CdA, 10/21/13 third Half, 2013 Marine Corps marathon second marathon, first trained, two centuries sometime in 2013 (but IM training will include multiple 100+ mi rides). 

6/2010 first marathon, untrained, longest run 5 mi twice, long recovery, 9 hours 15 mins because I was gonna die or finish, hopefully finish.  Dec 2010 first half marathon, 3:40.  HIM half marathon ~2:45.  12/2012 second half marathon, hoping for 11:20 mins/mi or below.

Train anywhere from 8 (rest weeks) to 18 hours a week (for HIM, going to go up to 20-25 for IM).  Most weeks are 2/3 group strength (2 in season, 3 off season), 3 group swim, 2-3 runs, 2-3 bikes (one long run, one long bike a week, track/tempo/intervals/long/hills runs, intervals/group trainer intervals/long bike).  Group swim is mostly 1-1:15 hours, sometimes closer to 2.  Group strength averages 1 hour each.  Groups are small, 3-5 people.  One group trainer intervals and one group track intervals per week.

Current weight ~120 lbs, hope to be 107.5 lbs (still in "normal" range for height) by HIM, lowest weight 112.5 lbs.

Soooooo......

I think psychologically there's something pulling me back.  What?  That's the million dollar question.  I think I'm scared of pushing all out, but I have NO idea why.  And I wasn't one of those who was skinny, got fat, got skinny again.  The group classes got me skinny but it wasn't until I started tri training this year that I really started to get fit.  I first pushed on the swim and now I'm out of breath when I swim because of the intensity.  But I can't figure out how to push the run and the bike.

I have this huge fear that I won't finish the workout, that I won't have enough strength, that I won't last, etc.

And I've never really developed the ability to gauge intensity because I just haven't been doing it that long.  I'm gonna be doing this for a few years (want to settle into 1-2 IM, 2-4 HIM, Olys and Sprints and 1-2 marathons and 1-2 centuries per year) so it will happen eventually, so I'm not TOO worried that it's not happening now as I'm developing it.  But I want to start developing ideas and techniques to consciously start pushing it.  Getting skinny was easy, becoming an athlete has been hard as hell!!

I'm starting to be able to push it in track.  I've included my latest track workout at the end of this post.  For comparison I did a lactate treshold treadmill test and my average HR was 131.

I knew how to swim from childhood but I didn't know technique.  Got four lessons in late Dec 2011 and swam by myself Jan-Apr 2012 and started with current coach online only April 2012 and started with group swim May 2012.  Last year I was doing 1600 in 1:05 (over 4 mins / 100), at the beginning of the year I was doing 3:00/100, now I average 2:20/100.

At the beginning of the year I was running 2 miles in 24-30 mins.  Now I can do 10 miles in 12:00 pace or so.  At the beginning of the year I was biking 12 miles in one hour.  Now I can go 80 miles at 13-15 MPH.

6.58 miles
1:19:11
12:02 average pace
Average, max heart rate  154/178

Distance Time  Pace  Avg HR  Max HR   Time/Avg HR/Max HR
      Interval Interval  Rest

1 mi  10:11  10:11  156  164

100  :21  5:36  156  163   1:14/157/167
100  :23  6:08  156  161   1:13/156/168
100  :23  6:08  154  158   1:08/160/167
100  :24  6:24  163  169   1:18/155/169

200  :56  7:28  153  165   2:06/153/172
200  1:02  8:16  163  172   2:01/152/174

400  1:55  7:40  168  177   4:21/148/178
400  2:02  8:08  162  172   3:33/149/173

800  4:23  8:46  166  174   6:53/155/173

400  2:11  8:44  160  172   4:37/144/172
400  2:14  8:56  157  167   4:55/141/167

200  1:24  11:12  150  165   2:04/146/165
200  1:19  10:32  155  168   1:57/147/167

100  :35  9:20  148  160   1:08/153/165
100  :32  8:32  150  157   1:10/153/164
100  :34  9:04  140  146   1:11/151/163
100  :29  7:44  143  155   1:23/150/163

~800  5:08  10:16  159  172

Find out what pulls you.

Seriously.

In situations where a person is tested beyond their physiological limits there exists, in a very few, some motive to continue. They don't worry about how much is too much, they only worry about how little is too little.

Specifically, there have been surveys done on elite distance runners to determine what their "thought loop" was during competition. Some surprising patterns emerged.

One pattern contributes to the cliche' "racing in the moment" or, not worrying about the end of the race during the race. Staying focused only on the current output- not worrying if you can finish.

Now, disclaimer: I'll suggest this "Am I going fast enough?" mindset/thought loop is appropriate up through the 70.3/half Ironman distance for us hobbyist/mere mortal triathletes like you and I. When we go to Ironman distance we'll need something to keep us in check on the bike. Mark Allen use this strategy in his first Ironman win based on a recommendation from Dr. Phil Maffetone.

But, at the shorter distances, calibrating your mind and thoughts to be in the moement and conintuously ask, "Am I going as fast as I can right now?" over and over has emerged as a viable psychological process for fast distance runners and endurance athletes.

Like anything else, you have to practice it, both while trainining and in specific mental training when not physically exercising. If you do a search on Amazon about "Mental Training" you'll find some useful books on mental training for sports. Read them. Then practice what they suggest. You'll be astounded at the improvement in your performance.

When I moved to the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs as a bicycle racer before I went to Europe to race the single greatest contribution (other than great food at the OTC) was being assigned a sports psychologist. The work I did with her was extremely beneficial and made me faster.

Take a second to watch this super cool video that speaks, in a kid of creative way, to the "thought loop" of the fast athlete:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXVD4nbEFgg&list=FLc_AsMTH5szWxoFrEoBFRVg&index=315&feature=plpp_video

Great reference!

GatorDeb - 2012-11-19 7:51 AM Coach can't help me with this one.  Here's the thing.  My coach works off heart rate zones.  So let's say she has me do a run test.  10 minute warmup, then 30 minutes all-out effort that I can maintain for 30 minutes, and give her the average HR for the last 20 of that.  How do I know what I think or feel is all-out really IS all-out?  Same with the bike.  How do I know 145 average heart rate is the most I can sustain for 30 minute? (just throwing out numbers)  What if it's 150?  Or 155?  160?  Etc.

That's why there are advanced physiological tests to measure your true Anaerobic Thershold and zones.  See if you can find a V02 max test in your area.  Here's a link to help and give you more info: http://vo2maxtesting.net/

Iknow for a fact that Lifetime Fitness offers them for about $100.  I don't know if Summerlin is near you but there's a Lifetime there.  This test uses your heart rate monitor along with a mask measuring your oxygen uptake.  It calculates your heart rate training zones and gives you your AT.

Get tested and you won't have to rely on perceived exertion.  PE is not for everyone for the exact reasons your citing.  Not everyone feels they can find their max just based on feeling which is precisely why V02 and other tests of the like are considered the gold standard and perceived exertion is not.

What I think JMK was referring to was maybe having a few coaching sessions just to see how much you may be holding back and going from there. When I started doing tris a few years ago, I thought I was pushing myself. Turns out, I had no idea what I was doing at the gym. I found a good trainer who pushed me like a male Jillian Michaels. Now, he got me from maybe 50% effort to, I'd say, 80%+. I had a long way to go. I still do. By far.

The thing is, I still get to those places I think I'm pushing hard enough - and need someone to remind me I'm not. It doesn't have to be constant. Every few months should work.

Uhm, I like the mental patterns that caused that behavior, I just know how to use them better now  I laugh at 18 hour training weeks... it's less than I was doing before!

I did a 5K at 26:21 on Feb of this year.  I'm doing it again next year and I was surprised how fast I ran.  I did 8:02, 8:49, 8:55.  I had been under the impression 8:20 had been my fastest mile.  Who knew I could run a  8:02.  And that was 9.5 months ago.....

There's obviously a do-or-die side of me that finished that 9:05 marathon.  What's frustrating is that I can't control it.  Sometimes it comes out, sometimes it doesn't.  I'd love to be able to call it up on command.

We're doing zones again, I did it on a treadmill with a 9:32 average at 131 avg HR... holy crap, I can go that fast and barely work up a sweat!  Imagine what I could do at 155.....  But I have a HM next week so it won't be until 2 weeks from now and I got workouts to do.  So until then I'll look at current workouts, see what my heart rate is, an set up zones for each workout depending on what I want to do.  For example I'm getting the sense I can hold 155 not forever but for a little.  So I got a 3.5 descending pace workout tonight.  I plan to not pay attention to pace.  I'll do the first mile at 145 or so, second and third at 155, and then the last one at 160+ and see what paces that get me.  Work backwards so to speak, and build a workout around the heart rate I want to keep.  It's written as first mile z2, second and third z3, last one z4.

Thanks for the comments  

It's frustrating that I KNOW I'm not pushing myself as hard as I can and I don't know why.  But I don't lose sleep over it because it's something that's developed in time.  I've always been a want-it-now kind of person though

Tom - will definitely check out that video and take a look at some books, thanks!

Oh, and I had the testing done at LTF 1.5  years ago.  Plugged in zones and it said I was going zone 6 in Zumba..... not only the calibration but how good the technician is or isn't.

That's the thing, I think I hold myself back, so I think I can't go harder, but I can.  I'm sitting here thinking about the paces needed to PR on the 5K in February going holy crap I don't think I can run that fast NOW, how did I do it 9.5 months ago when 2 miles are hard and now that I can do a HIM I don't think I canty better my 5K performance ....  I'm doing 800m in 4:10 pretty consistent and I hit sub-2 on 200m more than not, and I think 8 minute miles are unattainable .... 

Again - and I think this is key - what if you go too hard? What will happen if you are unable to finish the workout because you've gone too hard? How often have you gotten to the place where you can't finish?

I truly believe that you need to get there before you can start flirting with the notion of consistently training to your limits. The thing that is great for you right now is you *know* you can complete the distances...so now you need to know what it's like to not complete the distance and why you didn't complete it. Try it for one workout...go absolutely as hard as you can for as long as you can. And then keep going.

My mentor group had this discussion recently and the upshot (for me) was if you are doing intervals (let's say 8 run intervals for the sake of argument)...by the time you get to the 6th, the idea of the 7th and 8th interval isn't appealing at all. When you get to the 7th interval, you are thinking you can probably squeek out the 7th but the 8th is going to hurt. When you finish the 8th, you shouldn't be able to run another couple of miles...you should just be able to cool down and then collapse on the floor to recover before stumbling to a shower.

(All this is said with the hope that you are keeping an eye on injury prevention...a strong base is key before throwing any of the "push it to the limit" into the mix)

Are you sure it was LTF, because they don't use a zone 6....??  If I remember correctly, you lost a substantial amount of weight.  If you were quite out of shape when you had that test done a few years ago you easily could've been above AT or into zone 4 doing an activity that would keep a fit person in zone 1 or 2.

Now that you're fitter and have been training, I would get retested.  The technology may not be the top of the line or perfectly accurate, but it's more accurate than just guessing at how hard you're body is going based on feel, which clearly isn't working for you based on your original post.

ah, hail fellow Sufferlandrian....

1. Think of all the times that you HAVE already overcome in the past.  Use these as motivators during current workouts to realize that you can push through.

2. Think of how little you have left.  I ran 10 miles today.  Started struggling at 7 miles.  I started thinking only 3 miles left.  I could quit at 7 and know it was a good workout.  But look how long it took me to get to 7 miles already.  I should finish because in order to get to 10, I have to run all these 7 miles again.

3. Think of how far you've come.  Remember how hard it was to initially bike 10 miles?  Now 10 miles is no problem.  Remember how hard it was to bike 30 miles?  Now 30 miles is no problem.  50 miles is now your target.

4. Simply force yourself to think of something else.  This takes mental training.  Think of work things.  Think of things with friends, family, etc.

5. If possible, get a training partner.  They help tremendously.

6. Most, if not all, hard workouts include some time when you want to quit.  Realize this is part of the deal.  It will pass, and the good feelings will come back.  Focus on the fact that the negative thoughts will eventually pass.

I find this approach really effective.  I did a 10K in October (my first), and after about 6K I couldn't keep up the run, so fell into a walk/run for a couple of km.  Then I gave myself a challenge -- "run until you count to 300".    Once I finished that, I wasn't quite done the race, so I said "one more time!" and that was enough to get me through to the finish.

I find it similar to food willpower -- it's easier to say no once (cookies in the store) than to say no a hundred times (cookies in the pantry).