Any tips on how to learn to push yourself? (Page 3)

"Simply force yourself to think of something else."

The current literature on mental trainig for endurance argues between the "associative" approach to mental activity during endurance racing and the "disassociative" approach, or trying to concentrate on something else.

The consensus is that "associative" athletes, those that do think about what they are doing, produce consistently better results than disassociative athletes. In other words, don't tune out. Focus and concentrate on what you are doing. Don't use distractions like music, etc.

This link to the Journal of Sport Psychology highlights one of many studies done on the relationships between associative and disassociative mental strategies in endurance sports:

http://www.athleticinsight.com/Vol6Iss1/AttentionalStylesandEffectiveCognitiveStrategies.htm

There are many, many other resources.

Additionally, there a lot of very, very good books- some of them "classics", on mental training:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Toughness-Training-Sports-Psychologists/dp/0452269989/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1353363116&sr=8-12&keywords=sports+psychology

This one includes some incredible insights from tennis great Chris Evert on concentration, mindset and developing an associative coping strategy for optimal performance.

Another must read is Terri Schneider, triathlete and adventure racer's book, "Triathlete's Guide to Mental Training":

http://www.amazon.com/Triathletes-Mental-Training-Ultrafit-Multisport/dp/1931382700/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1353363258&sr=8-11&keywords=endurance+sports+psychology

And there is the James Loehr classic from 1991, still a truly great read and a must-see on mental training: "Mental Toughness Training for Sports"

All of these resources will provide insights into mental training, appropriate application of associative and disassociative mindsets, relaxatin strategies, optimal levels of arousal for best performance and visualization.

If you read these and practice what they say you will benefit.

"Deb, I just want to say you are a freakin' rock star for what you've accomplished the past 3 years. 230 lbs to 120??? Couch potato to triathlete running 2:35 Olys?? AMAZING!"

X2. That is super impressive. You should be writing books about mental toughness, not reading them.

Special just for you:

I'm certain it was LTF  I was already a normal weight by the time they did that test and I was already taking 20+ hours a week of classes by then.

I have no problem pushing myself to finish training sessions, I have become completely addicted to SBR and love every second of it.  So it's not about pushing myself to finish, it's about having done a harder workout.

I don't know what would happen if I push too hard, I just can't seem to mentally bring myself to do it :\

Did I write 2:35 Oly?  Have to go check.  It was 4:05 for first one, ~3:30 for second one, I am terribly slow  All the distances are getting shorter and shorter, though.

Hey, I got a bona fide Tom Demerly kitty!  Thanks!

Ladies and gentlemen, we have our new vice presidential candidate!

Ha, I did write 3:05 and 2:35, whoops, my bad :\  4:05 and ~3:30.  Sadly I have no more sprints or Olys until 2014 because I'm going to be training for IMCDA and it doesn't fit into the training schedule.  Just two Halfs, the Full, a marathon (probably Marine Corps Marathon), and 2 centuries post-June.

So I had a 3.5 run today, 1 mi at z2, 2 mi at z3, .5 mi at z4.  Talked to coach in the morning and we approached it pace-wise instead of hr-wise.  She wanted me at 10:00 for the first mile, 9:20 for miles 2 and 3, and all-out for the last half mile.  I ended up doing 9:40 for the first mile, 9:11 for the second, 8:57 for the third, and 8:32 for the last half mile.  9:10 over 3.51 miles in 32:14.  Avg hr 156, Max 173.  So 155-ish does seem to be my working hard, but can hold it for a bit hr.  So I have a 10-miler Wed, might try to hold it for 10:00 (haven't done that so far), and the 7 miler on Sat may try to hold that for 9:30 (haven't done that either) and work off of paces for now.

That is a pretty aggressive schedule for someone just getting into the sport. Good luck and train smart.

Okay, so you're not a fan of the V02 testing but do you heart rate train at all?  The whole idea behind it is to use science, not feeling or guessing to measure your intensity level.  It basically eliminates your problem.

If you don't want to rely on V02 testing, there are several other tests available to help determine your training zones and anaerobic threshold.  You can even do a simple test on a bike or treadmill using the physical cues associated with AT to determine your rough AT number.  If you're interested, I can tell you more about how to test yourself or how to seek out more scientific testing.

But if you're not interested in using heart rate it's a moot point!

GatorDeb - 2012-11-20 10:05 AM That's what I'm saying, though, when you are doing the basic 10 min w/u, 30 mins all out but at a pace you can sustain for 30 minutes, and take the average HR of the last 20 mins, threshold test, to set up your training zones, how do you know you really couldn't push anymore

Rest up, then do it again trying for the little bit more. This is where the experience comes in. Sometimes you will fall a little short, and when doing the test, that's ok. It's not a bad thing to go a little too hard during once in awhile during the test. That's how you learn to feel where your limit is. If you never fall short, then you may not actually be reaching your limit. This applies to the test, not to the majority of workouts.

ETA: Agree with Shane on the pacing too.

ETA for my above post is that I also agree with Shane on the even pacing throughout the test. What were your mile splits for this? You want a consistent output. For running, that would be your pace. Did you run ~9:30 for each of the 4 miles or did you start with a 10:00+ and finish with a 9:00?

ETA: Was this done an a flat(ish) route or treadmill? You want consistency throughout, and I know the hills around your area can be quite large in places.

Do it. Push yourself so hard you that don't make it to the end of your workout. Do it a few times. Then you'll know your threshold. 

GatorDeb - 2012-11-20 11:05 AM That's what I'm saying, though, when you are doing the basic 10 min w/u, 30 mins all out but at a pace you can sustain for 30 minutes, and take the average HR of the last 20 mins, threshold test, to set up your training zones, how do you know you really couldn't push anymore

That's not the best way to find AT.  AT is associated with very specific physical cues.  The test to which I am referring does not rely on you just guessing at if you're feeling the push or not feeling the push.  Keep in mind these very easily identifiable cues of threshold:

-can no longer breath through the nose; mouth breathing only

-can no longer say more than a word or two without taking a breath

-jaw is dropped and you can no longer close the mouth between breaths

-you have intense localized muscle burn

So if you really want to pinpoint your AT number without relying on how you "feel", here's the way to do it.  Warm up for 10 minutes on a bike or treadmill.  Began to add either 1. load (or incline on a tread) or 2. speed, or both in small increments each minute.  Once you notice all the physical cues above and can sustain that at the same particular speed for 2 minutes, note the peak of your HR.  There's your AT.  No guessing.  You can establish all of your zones around that number.

It's not as accurate as a scientifically based test but it is more accurate than, gee, am I working as hard as I can?

Brigby for the test the first 10 minutes were at a 12:00 for the warmup then for the test the first 10 minutes I did at 10:00 then felt I could go harder so I went at 9:30 for another 10 minutes then I felt I could go harder then I went for 9:00.  She counts the last 20 minutes of those 30 minutes.

It was on a treadmill with no incline.

Noelle thanks will try that!

This is a really helpful discussion. My question is this (and more so to myself): What happens if you stop paying attention to time once in a while and just run?

I know I have a similar tendency to 'see' myself as a '10:00' mile or 12:00 mile runner or whatever and then I feel like I have to maintain that pace because, well, that's just how fast I am. But I love the perspective here: "so what if you run faster and crash? It's OK."

Also--don't laugh--doing Insanity Asylum and having Shaun T constantly pushing really helped me move past my first, second and third inclinations to quit. So I learned I could do more.

Good luck and thanks for asking the question.

Using the McMillan calculator, you probably could hold 10 minute miles for 10 miles, assuming your longer distance training/talent is on par with your shorter distance training. However, if your coach suggested you do your 10 at 11:20, I would work with that. I assume s/he chose that pace as part of a bigger picture in your training plan. Just because you are capable of running a certain distance at a certain fast pace does not mean that you should be doing it frequently.