Survivor Caramoan (will be spoilers) (Page 18)

According to the post family members will play "against" each other.  How will they make sure they don't collude to share the money, which is one of the big survivor rules you can't break?  If this is the case.  There can be only one winner right?

They remind me of small dogs, all loud and pissed off all the time.

I was really happy when they went to final 3. But in reallity, we are still really only final 2. The 3rd is ONLY there because they were no threat to win and won't get any votes. It is a victory to be paid more going further in the game, but they have no shot at winning the game. It is still final 2.

I do really love the game, but I really do not like how most strong players get eliminated by the group, and the ones left standing are not really deserving. I totally understand you do not have to be the strongest to win... and yes if all the strong players get eliminated... well then they were outplayed... but more times than not, the ones actually playing the game hard, are taken out by the group... so it is the group strength that eliminates them.... yet it is supposed to be sole survivor that out witted outplayed and out lasted. I want the player that did all three... not just one of them.

I do not really know how you change the game to get that result.

ETA:  I do think Cochran was deserving. He did do all three... but it was a slam dunk, because the other two didn't. It would be great to at least have a final three that actually did it too and the jury had to decide who was most deserving.

Yeah, she would have been better to say "I was always in a position of weakness/on the outside.  So I had to change my game play to fly under the radar and hope others got voted off first" - even throw the 'I don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than YOU' joke.  Say that IF she was not always on the outside, she could have made moves.

Sometimes the game or the position you are in dictates more than your own gameplay.  Sometime you have to take what the game gives you.

It's an interesting juxtaposition/contrast.  They "respect" those who have more game play aka lie cheat and steal and condemn you if you don't but at the same time, if you lie to THEM, they get pizzed off.

HOWEVER, even in a position of weakness, you can offer up suggestions or take an active role instead of just sitting there and doing what you are told.  Even if you just ask "what about him, what about her" then default to the group decision?  You LOOK like you are playing the game instead of just spectating.

If Russel and Brandon come back in this "Blood Water " season, I am so out.

All this Russel wanting to beat up Phillip talk and banning him. If this is all a ploy to draw infans for it, I would gag.

I'm with you.

I would watch because I'm a survivor fan, but I would be SO unhappy.  I think a brand new cast of new personalities would be great. 

Yeah,  I could not take another season of the that family. Enough, there are other interesting people in the world. The only reason I would watch would be to see them voted out.

I think it's been mentioned but I got the expression right away:

"Blood is thicker than water" is a German proverb (originally: Blut ist dicker als Wasser), which is also common in English speaking countries. It generally means that the bonds of family and common ancestry are stronger than the bonds between unrelated people (such as friendship).

So they'll put the relatives against each other, and then at the merge it will be a much less likely "Tribe A vs Tribe B" which can get really boring if 1 team has the numbers. Stick with your number/tribe or go with blood. Not sure how they'll keep the balance though - kinda pointless if most of the couples lose their partner to eliminations before the merge.

Could be very interesting if there was some way that couple member X on one team getting the boot affects matching couple member Y on the other tribe.

Please no more Hantzs, ever.

I completely agree.  She came put playing but her alliance got shot down when Shamar got pulled due to medical.  He was the lightening rod that attracted all the attention from her actually pulling the strings and when that was gone her game was blown and she never recovered.  She merged and maybe never saw the crack that she needed to make a "big" move that everyone wants to see.  You have to work with what you have out there.  It's easy for us to judge someones game play but out there is far different.  You don't have the benefit of seeing the other interviews but you do have the benefit of the paranoia and seeing one another ALL DAY LONG. 

First rule to winning Survivor is making the final tribal.  You make a move and they see it coming you are gone.  Ask Andrea.

Actually - thats not what the proverb means..  It is one of five common misused proverbs

Even though the common,  meaning is blood = family, its actually the opposite:

Ever hear of the term 'blood brothers"?  That was derived from the original saying.

"The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb,

Rather than "blood" shared by family, the original interpretation of the term was literal blood. In other words, the blood that is shed by soldiers on the battlefield makes for stronger bonds than those of the family you happened by chance to be born into. It was also used in reference to "blood covenants" that people used to make, which involved cutting each other and mixing their blood together in a more hardcore version of the modern pinkie swear."

No more returning players.  too huge of an advantage for the them.  

Friends vs family, already built in alliances in each tribe could be interesting with people who only know the game by watching it, not experiencing it.

Both are used, regardless of what cracked.com may say.

"It first appeared in the medieval German beast epic Reinhart Fuchs (c. 1180 'Reynard the Fox') by Heinrich der Glîchezære, whose words in English read, 'Kin-blood is not spoilt by water.'"

"Blood is thicker than holy water" is a quote from Mario Puzo's The Family, wherein the Borgia pope emphasizes that familial obligations are more important than religious ones.

Of course it's also used for military bonds - but in the case of Survivor, it's obviously tied to the family (though watching two dozen Shamars fight it out could be amusing)

Completely off topic... Yes both are used, but only one has the correct meaning in origin. And based on the origin, most people now use the phrase incorrectly....

What does 'water' stand for?  How does 'water' symbolize friendship?  The original meaning clearly states what the metaphors are- "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb.   Think about it -  Blood of the family is thicker than the water of friendship makes little to no sense.

The blood covenant has been around since the time of Abraham (if not before, predating history) and at the end of the ritual the two blood covenants would leave as 'friends'.  And in fact the drinking of wine during communion is making a blood pact with Christ that is stronger than any other bond, including family.  

All you did was give references of how the phrase has been used over the last millennia - staring in 1180 and included a book from the author of godfather.. it was written 12 years ago. Which really proves how the phrase has changed and no longer means what it was originally intended.

And yes, Ill take what cracked says (and other sources) over wikipedia any day.  wiki is not a trustworthy source.  

/OT

I can't believe we are arguing over this.  I guess it's interesting that I may have been using "blood is thicker than water" water incorrectly...

But think about this.  If just about EVERYONE thinks that blood means family (which everyone has) opposed to fellow soldiers (which few of us have knows).  It may have originated meaning one thing, but if it evolves into something completely different, is it "wrong"?  Maybe not the original intent...  But not wrong.

If you ask a bunch of people, and almost all of them know that as "family", then that is the correct way it's NOW interpreted.

There are plenty of words/phrases that used to mean one thing or be positive/negative, that have changed their meaning or intent.  They changed, they are not wrong.

SO, I'm sticking with Blood = family, water = everyone else, basically.

ETA:  I propose that if Survivor has the same use of the phrase to mean family/related?  Then that's officially the meaning.  Cuz if it's reality TV, it must be truth...  Anyone second?

You have given that a lot of thought.

First I just want to say Im already having Survivor withdrawals.  

Second, if the show was still on, I wouldnt hijack the thread like this.  But since this thread will most likely get shuffled to the back pages in a couple weeks, I figured why not.

Third, I get what the common everyday meaning is and Im 'OK' with it and will second Kido's motion  for the upcoming season .  I just found it interesting that the phrase has evolved to mean the exact opposite of what it originally meant.  Even though I've known about it for a while, I also thought the timing of the cracked article coming out within a few days of the Survivor announcement was also an interesting coincidence.  

However, I did not use the word 'wrong', I specifically used 'incorrectly'.  I understand that just because 'everyone' knows something, it doesnt mean they are right (or wrong), it could just mean that they are misinformed and therefore incorrect as well.  It happens all the time - even in the tri world: for example, I have been very outspoken on this website about who the Clydesdale/Athena category was initially intended for versus what it has become.  But ask 'everyone' who it is for and you'll most likely get this, this and this.  Even though I havent changed my body type or weight in 25 years, I am no longer a clyde as I hover between 210-215.  Doesnt change the history that I once was one.  Just that things and meanings can change over time.

At U-Mass Amherst, there is an area named after my great - grandfather. 'Everyone' pronounces the 'Haigis Mall' as 'Hay-gis', even though he, and my family pronounce it 'High-gis'  I even know when the change happened - during the Reagan admin and Alexander Haig.   So is 'everyone' right when they correct me on the pronunciation of what it has been changed to or am I when I explain the origin of who it was dedicated to and how the family says it?  ETA: (There is a beach on Cape Cod also named after him and it is pronounced correctly there.)

As I said earlier, I've known what the original phrase was but what Khyron did for me was provide the turning point where the change of the blood/water meaning actually happened and then how it changed through time to mean what it does today.  If you look at the root of the poem as the basis for the change, you can see that the water is the symbol the church (holy water = baptism, blessing etc) and the blood changed to family is being more important.  Quick 12th century history using a very broad brush: There were basically two seats/types of power: Nobility (landowners) and the Church.  It was not uncommon for the oldest son to inherit the estate, the second son to be married off to another's first born daughter and one of the younger son to join the church - that way the family can be in control of most if not all of the power. The poem was written in a time of political and religious turmoil and uncertainty with the holy roman empire.  Makes sense that a 'lord' would want their kin to be true to them and not to Rome.  Pretty powerful statement to make against power and obligations of blood covenants and the church.  Really not something you could openly say at that time and probably better to let animals say it.

So there you go... Useless information to bring up next season during a commercial break about the origin and eventual change of the meaning 'blood thicker than water'.

meh...  I just like words and what they mean and how they change.  (same goes with "sayings" I suppose.)  The whole message/sender/receiver thing is interesting to me.