General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Best ways to increase biking speed Rss Feed  
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2013-04-23 10:57 PM

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Subject: Best ways to increase biking speed
I am looking at upcoming races in my area and looking at past results from the same races. I see that a lot of people usually bike around 21-23mph in these triathlons I have been looking at but I am no where near that pace. What do I need to do to get that kind of pace? First things first, my bike isn't a top of the line bike. I have a felt z95, very entry level bike. I don't have biking shoes either, I just ride in my tennis shoes or running shoes. That being said, I don't see what I am doing wrong on not at least being able to haul it around 21mph on fast training runs. Last year I did a duathlon and was able to muster 20+ mph during my race at 20 miles, but to have a chance of doing well at these triathlons, it seems I need to really improve my bike times. Any help is appreciated.


2013-04-24 12:07 AM
in reply to: #4712761

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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed

Two things will help your bike times. The first is, obviously, improved fitness. The second is, unavoidably, better equipment. 

If you really want to hit those big speeds, here's the recipe:

a) buy an indoor trainer and a good training program. I have the Kurt Kinetic Road Machine paired with the Trainer Road software and I recommend this combination highly. Measure your FTP regularly to see how you're improving - you will see a pronounced difference in your bike times.

b) you need a fast bike. I've no idea what kind of budget you may have but a good tri bike is essential if you really want to hit the heights. And you're going to need some aero wheels as well - more $$$. And then an aero helmet...and then a aerodynamic hydration system...the list is (nearly) endless!  But f your bank account doesn't allow for those things at this time, then there a couple of things you can do to speed up your Felt. The first is clipless pedals and cycle shoes - that is an absolute no-brainer. The second is clip-on aero bars.

Yes, it can get expensive but at least you don't need to spend too much on the swim and run! :-)

Good luck!

2013-04-24 12:12 AM
in reply to: #4712761


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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed
I am not fast, but I am faster than what I was when I began and I can tell you what I did to improve. Strength training and getting in the saddle as much as possible were what i believe to be the two biggest advantages to my biking. I do lots of single leg lunges in smith machines. The weight for me is not extremely heavy, but close enough. Also, some courses are simply faster than others and this may attribute to the faster speeds. I hope this at least helps a little.
2013-04-24 12:20 AM
in reply to: #4712761


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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed
Oh and about the bike. It's not the frame as much as it is you, the engine. What good is a Ford focus engine inside a Corvette frame?? =)
My point is, I saw all the guys out there with their expensive bikes and I was riding a hand me down road bike when I started. Work with what you have and it will get better. I can assure you that.
2013-04-24 12:35 AM
in reply to: #4712761

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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed
One answer.  T.I.T.S.- as in time in the saddle

Edited by ChrisM 2013-04-24 12:35 AM
2013-04-24 1:06 AM
in reply to: #4712761

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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed

Very very simple answer:

 

1. Bike more

2. Bike harder

No secret. Just work harder.



2013-04-24 1:55 AM
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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed
I also agree with a trainer and Trainer Road program! Use it and you WILL get faster. Go buy a puke bucket though
2013-04-24 4:05 AM
in reply to: #4712797

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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed
ChrisM - 2013-04-24 2:35 AM

One answer.  T.I.T.S.- as in time in the saddle


This - it is pretty simple to get faster on the bike; ride lots, mostly hard, sometimes easy.

Shane
2013-04-24 4:44 AM
in reply to: #4712761

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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed

Riding hard, getting a good trainer, etc. -- all good advice.

But one of the biggest barriers to speed is your body position on the bike. The drag that your body creates is huge, so reducing that is key. A tri bike helps greatly with that. But much of that benefit can be had from clip-on aerobars. Or even by improving your position on your roadie. 

Play around with the tools on bikecalculator.com - the speed gains from changes in position are dramatic, and often larger than the gains from a significant fitness increase.

2013-04-24 11:47 AM
in reply to: #4712787

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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed
I definitely need more time in the saddle and getting used to riding longer distances. I do have clip on aero bars and that definitely helped in my race last year. I did one with and one without and it was better. I have an indoor trainer but probably didn't use it as much as I should or as hard as I should. I didn't feel the difficulty on the indoor trainer that I do outside against a stiff wind (my area gets a lot of that). One benefit though is the area I live has multiple summer triathlons 4 miles from my house so pretty much everytime I go out to ride, I am riding a course or parts of a course that are used for those races. I think the shoes are the next bet. I am not planning on spending a ton of money to buy a new bike. I might borrow the racing wheels from a neighbor for a race or two. Overall, I definitely feel like I can push it a little more on the bike. Not knowing better ways to train on the bike is probably not helping me either. I come from a running background so I know lots of different things to do to improve there. So far on the bike, I seem stuck in a rut. Its frustrating to look at times and say-I will finish top 3 in the run and in the bottom half on the bike. I know it will get better over time. Any specific types of workouts on the bike I could do to help with speed. I used to do every four minutes, I would sprint for a minute. That worked well. This year, I have just been getting distance in instead of working straight sprint work and other things.
2013-04-24 11:53 AM
in reply to: #4712761


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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed

I'm going to guess, but I'll be pretty confident guessing that you're not spending enough time on the bike regardless of what you do to get really good on it.

 

Those guys doing 21-23mph are often doing 3hr long weekend rides in addition to 2-3 solid weekday ride sessions, if not more. 

 

Up that time in the saddle, and then once that's done, increase quality (intensity) and you'll get there. If you're hitting 20 mph for 20miles, you're essentially there - just need a small boost to get into the next category.



2013-04-24 12:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed

I'm gonna post twice on this because it's important.  It does not matter what kind of bike you have, or how heavy it is, or how aero you are, if you do not ride.  Lots.   I have friends that are insanely strong cyclists that do most of their training on heavy mountain bikes in decidely un aero positions.  I do all of my off season road training on a non-aero position road bike, and I get faster each season. 

So the aero bar, lighter bike, etc suggestions don't answer the question.  If you ride your bike  - whatver that is, however heavy that is, in whatever (comfortable) position you have - you will get better (i.e. faster).

Now, in races, equipment will make more of a difference.  Bike shoes and clipless pedals will transfer power better, better aero position will reduce drag, etc.  But you don't get faster by how you ride in races.  You get faster by how you ride in training



Edited by ChrisM 2013-04-24 12:16 PM
2013-04-24 12:16 PM
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2013-04-24 12:23 PM
in reply to: #4712761

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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed

Sorry to highjack thread, if someone is a spinner with high cadence should the harder weekday workouts be in a slightly higher gear with slower cadence and vice versa? or split? (1 hard workout at normal cadence and one pushing big gears) or does not matter?

Thanks.

I have been using a slightly harder gear at a lower cadence to get into my uncomfortable/pain zone.  After reading some posts from Feltgood.

2013-04-24 12:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed
T.I.T.S.  Lots of T.I.T.S.  When you're immersed in T.I.T.S. it should be a sufferfest 90% of the time.  Almost never should you be relaxing, enjoying yourself, breathing easy and putting in low to no effort while working on T.I.T.S.  Don't caress, hammer.
2013-04-24 12:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed
ChrisM - 2013-04-24 1:14 PM

I'm gonna post twice on this because it's important.  It does not matter what kind of bike you have, or how heavy it is, or how aero you are, if you do not ride.  Lots.   I have friends that are insanely strong cyclists that do most of their training on heavy mountain bikes in decidely un aero positions.  I do all of my off season road training on a non-aero position road bike, and I get faster each season. 

So the aero bar, lighter bike, etc suggestions don't answer the question.  If you ride your bike  - whatver that is, however heavy that is, in whatever (comfortable) position you have - you will get better (i.e. faster).

Now, in races, equipment will make more of a difference.  Bike shoes and clipless pedals will transfer power better, better aero position will reduce drag, etc.  But you don't get faster by how you ride in races.  You get faster by how you ride in training

Well said!



2013-04-24 12:58 PM
in reply to: #4712761

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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed
Nothing wrong with the bike. I train on a Felt Z85, and can hold 20 mph. But buy pedals and shoes, so that you can pedal harder through 360 degree strokes.

Then, to join the choir, ride more. A lot more. If you can find a friendly club or group, join them. Then ride more. In inclement weather, use an indoor trainer and good videos.

Good luck!
2013-04-24 1:03 PM
in reply to: #4713532

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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed
bgeyeguy - 2013-04-24 11:23 AM

Sorry to highjack thread, if someone is a spinner with high cadence should the harder weekday workouts be in a slightly higher gear with slower cadence and vice versa? or split? (1 hard workout at normal cadence and one pushing big gears) or does not matter?

Thanks.

I have been using a slightly harder gear at a lower cadence to get into my uncomfortable/pain zone.  After reading some posts from Feltgood.



It should be at whatever your normal cadence is but with a harder gear. In other words, just work harder on your harder days. Your cadence is not a limiter as to how much pain you can experience...
2013-04-24 1:31 PM
in reply to: #4712761

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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed
Ride more and often.  Build that engine.
2013-04-24 1:42 PM
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2013-04-24 1:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed

Riding more is the largest part of getting faster. There is another aspect as well. You need to ride harder. Having something to help you judge "harder" is useful. You don't have to go all out and buy a power meter but a heart rate monitor can be helpful. You just want to be able to go by more than speed since a tail wind or a particularly smooth road can make you go faster.

Training inside gives you a controlled environment for dosing out the intensity of your workouts. Riding hills (especially the same ones) also helps you tune in to working harder in a measured way. Like many other triathletes, I have fun overthinking how to get faster but so long as you ride, ride, and ride some more, mostly hard - you'll get stronger and faster.

Keep riding and have fun riding faster!



2013-04-24 1:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed
JohnnyKay - 2013-04-24 12:34 PM
ChrisM - 2013-04-24 1:14 PM

I'm gonna post twice on this because it's important.  It does not matter what kind of bike you have, or how heavy it is, or how aero you are, if you do not ride.  Lots.   I have friends that are insanely strong cyclists that do most of their training on heavy mountain bikes in decidely un aero positions.  I do all of my off season road training on a non-aero position road bike, and I get faster each season. 

So the aero bar, lighter bike, etc suggestions don't answer the question.  If you ride your bike  - whatver that is, however heavy that is, in whatever (comfortable) position you have - you will get better (i.e. faster).

Now, in races, equipment will make more of a difference.  Bike shoes and clipless pedals will transfer power better, better aero position will reduce drag, etc.  But you don't get faster by how you ride in races.  You get faster by how you ride in training

Well said!

X2

But if I may add, to ride at higher speeds for longer periods of time, you need not only the aerobic endurance, BUT more importantly you need the leg strength.  I've done cycling off and on for 25 years, but it wasn't until this past year that I realized that beside riding more, I need specific leg strength.  What does this mean?

I found an article on the internet last fall (I can't find it at the moment or I'd post the link, and will post when I find it) that showed the relationship between wattage power in newtons on the bike to gym weight kilograms.  Once I read this a light went off and I changed the way I do my gym workouts and my goal weights to lift.  Consider also that you are using only 20 to 25% at best of your maximum leg strength when cycling, the rest of the energy is lost to sweating and other inefficiency losses.  And the article further stated that assuming all cyclists are equal in vo2max ability then the cyclist that wins is the one that is using the most force for the longest time.  Simple.

What doese this mean?  To go 21 to 23 mph avg. requires about 210 to 240w in aero positon for most people depending upon size and position, etc. but let's assume all is equal... 225 watts requires any person to push down on the pedal with approximately 20 to 24 kg (45 to 55 lbs.) of force with each pedal stroke and each leg independently (test whether you can do this on a leg press with a single leg, also consider the sled weight, but if you can't do a single 50lb leg press, then you're not going to be able to ride very long at 21 to 23 mph.

I continue... a newton converts almost 1:1 with kg... but you have to do this continuously over the length of the race, whatever that length is... furthermore, we're triathletes that have to run afterwards, so you're not going to use your entire energy reserve.

Also keep in mind that improving speed is logarithmic, that every increase in speed (i.e. 1 mph avg more) requires a greater increase in strength and so forth, that to go from 18 mph to 20 mph avg. is easy, but then to go from 20 to 22 requres 2x more strength than the previous 2 mph avg. increase.

What does this mean?  it means that to go an avg of 21 - 23 mph, you'll need a maximum gym strength of around 2 to 2.5x or more of your body weight... since you'll only actually be using about 20% of that power to go the distance of say 56 miles of an HIM bike leg.

The conclusion: once you've established what you'll need in strength, then you can work toward that goal.

Then go out and ride more and train properly... I'm not going to profess a certain training regime, since they can be very individualized within the proven methods of training.



Edited by tomspharmacy 2013-04-24 2:00 PM
2013-04-24 1:58 PM
in reply to: #4713661

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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed

I don't think a bunch of time in the saddle is the only way to get faster either, at least not at the sprint distance.  I am now 50, and have steadily improved to 23+ mph average for a sprint over the last 4 years of doing tris (coming from a strong running background) with only 2 or 3 rides per week usually between 15 and 25 miles and some hills, but with lots of intensity.  I averaged about 1400 miles a year (about 27 per week) for 2010, 2011 and 2012.

Also, get some clipless pedals ASAP!

2013-04-24 2:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed
colinphillips - 2013-04-24 2:44 AM

Riding hard, getting a good trainer, etc. -- all good advice.

But one of the biggest barriers to speed is your body position on the bike. The drag that your body creates is huge, so reducing that is key. A tri bike helps greatly with that. But much of that benefit can be had from clip-on aerobars. Or even by improving your position on your roadie. 

Play around with the tools on bikecalculator.com - the speed gains from changes in position are dramatic, and often larger than the gains from a significant fitness increase.



I changed frames this season and have done way less training so far. I'm up a couple miles an hour over my same routes. On my new frame I am way more comfortable and way flatter. My speed on the flats and downhill has really gone up, climbing is still about the same though. But as my training and fitness comes around this season I'll look for my climbing speed to pick up a bit.
2013-04-24 2:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Best ways to increase biking speed
ejshowers - 2013-04-24 2:58 PM

I don't think a bunch of time in the saddle is the only way to get faster either, at least not at the sprint distance.  I am now 50, and have steadily improved to 23+ mph average for a sprint over the last 4 years of doing tris (coming from a strong running background) with only 2 or 3 rides per week usually between 15 and 25 miles and some hills, but with lots of intensity.  I averaged about 1400 miles a year (about 27 per week) for 2010, 2011 and 2012.

I am confused.  Isn't that "a bunch of time in the saddle"?  Of course, getting as much as you can out of the time you are able to put in matters, too.  That's just as true if training for sprints or training for IM.  It's all endurance.

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