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Why do I fall apart during my long runs? (Page 3)
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 2013-06-04 11:18 AM in reply to: riltri |
Regular  1893     Las Vegas, NV |  Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs?Originally posted by riltri While I agree with most of what all of you have said, I do have to give her credit. She has endured all the slings & arrows thrown at her on ST and here. Based on the posts that I have read, she is not a naturally gifted athlete but has persevered in her training. She has already accomplished more than 90% of other americans. Deb...I wish you luck and hope you succeed. If you don't make it, I have no doubt that you will come back even more determined for another try. Thanks  I'm not coming back, though, since I'm not really leaving, I already have the rest of the year and most of next year planned out. IMAZ 14!! (I choose them based on people I know going, mostly, since they're all new to me any IM is a good IM). |
| 2013-06-04 11:31 AM in reply to: 0 |
Regular 1893 Las Vegas, NV | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? And, of course, there's health benefits associated with my newfound healthy lifetime =) And I'm highly competitive, just slow, and the slow can't last forever. It's mostly a case of you either build endurance or speed and it's hard to do both, and since I've done both at the same, the progress for each is smaller. I can now be working out nine hours straight!!  Edited by GatorDeb 2013-06-04 11:35 AM |
| 2013-06-04 2:55 PM in reply to: 0 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Originally posted by GatorDeb Originally posted by BernardDogs Originally posted by GatorDeb First person I asked for advice was my coach. I'm just picking people's brains now. If everything had one 100% answer as to why something was happening, it'd be different, but specially where the body is concerned most of the time it's trial and error. I did get advice which I thought was kind of brilliant and I have to try it, sipping water and spitting it back out, gets rid a bit of that thirsty feeling without adding water to the body. For this week's 12 mi run I plan to take 1 gel, 1 glucose tablet, and 1 SaltStick every 30 minutes. Have taken that before, won't hurt, who knows if it will help, we will see what happens. If the fitness is not there the only answer to that is to keep training, but in the meantime I can tinker around with stuff to see if any of that will help. So that's the first plan of attack, the spitting out to try to minimize hydration and the increased salt and nutrition with a bit of sugar. If it works, I will do that exact thing at the IM and then after I can start taking away to pinpoint exactly what it was that helped, just one of them or two or all three. You're looking to the wrong place for the answers. The advice about not drinking so much and taking in more calories is certainly relevant, but that's only to SUPPLEMENT your training. If you're not ready to run 20 miles, Gu is not going to make up the difference. And you're not slowing down because you're thirsty. It's okay to be uncomfortable, and a dry mouth is not where you should be feeling discomfort. That's not a training indicator. Your fitness does not currently match your hopes/expectations for race day or, for that matter, your training runs. Run more. From what I can gather, a LOT more. Not really planning on stopping the running any time soon. I don't think anyone is suggesting that you stop running. The fact is that you are not running enough. If your actual runs as logged follow your training plan then your plan is deficient and should be corrected. You are having issues running 18 and 20 miles because you do not currently have the fitness necessary to run those distances successfully. You ramped up too quickly on way too little base. To rectify that you need to run more frequently and spread your weekly mileage out over the week. Then focus on adding mileage gradually. People have been trying to get you to see this for quite some time. How about this, answer these two questions: Do you think your training plan is adequate in preparing you to run the last leg of an Ironman or even a standalone marathon? If your answer to the above is no, then in your opinion what changes should you make to correct the situation? Edited by trisuppo 2013-06-04 2:56 PM |
| 2013-06-05 1:15 AM in reply to: trisuppo |
Regular 1893 Las Vegas, NV | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? And the answer to that is, I don't know, ask me in three weeks. I hired a coach, I followed a plan, now it's all wait and see. |
| 2013-06-05 5:00 AM in reply to: GatorDeb |
Pro 5892 , New Hampshire | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Deb, despite what some people seem to think, keep it up and continue pushing on. I'm certain with some minor adjustments, you'll be flying in your next IM! |
| 2013-06-05 6:43 AM in reply to: audiojan |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Originally posted by audiojan Deb, despite what some people seem to think, keep it up and continue pushing on. I'm certain with some minor adjustments, you'll be flying in your next IM! I agree! Keep learning and working at it, and you will continue to improve.
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| 2013-06-05 7:05 AM in reply to: GatorDeb |
Regular 5477 LHOTP | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Deb--your transformation is absolutely incredible. Thank you so much for sharing that picture. That picture is worth way more than 1000 words, and it tells me a lot about who you are. Kudos. Completing an IM is, in the grand scheme of things, really nothing compared to the life-change that you have been able to initiate and maintain. And you will complete an IM. I have no doubt of that. I hope you can step away from both boards--shut out the "noise" and focus on you and your journey, whatever that may look like. The biggest resource you will need is your own mental strength and I encourage you to work on developing and protecting that in the upcoming weeks. Best of luck to you. |
| 2013-06-05 8:39 AM in reply to: switch |
Expert 1608 Grapevine, Texas | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Deb, just wanted to comment on your amazing transformation. You don't lose that kind of weight without some incredible determination over the long term. I think that is what it takes to complete an ironman. For that reason alone, I would bet on you to get there! This time?? Next time?? I have no idea. And it doesn't really matter as much as the continuation of your journey does. Enjoy the ride! |
| 2013-06-05 8:42 AM in reply to: squirt |
Elite 3770 | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Originally posted by squirt Deb, just wanted to comment on your amazing transformation. You don't lose that kind of weight without some incredible determination over the long term. I think that is what it takes to complete an ironman. For that reason alone, I would bet on you to get there! This time?? Next time?? I have no idea. And it doesn't really matter as much as the continuation of your journey does. Enjoy the ride!
agreed! amazing. and one of the most underrated qualities of all ironmen is being stubborn. In long course, its a good trait to have! |
| 2013-06-05 10:28 AM in reply to: turtlegirl |
Regular 1893 Las Vegas, NV | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Thanks I'm a stubborn, OCD, extreme, type A, all or nothing, black and white kind of person. Triathlon fits me like a glove Just to give you an idea of where my mind goes in races, I did my first marathon in 9 hours and 15 minutes because, dammit, I was gonna finish. Less than six months before I couldn't run 30 seconds. I had done a handful of six mile runs, like 3-4, mostly one mile at a time, NO training at all. I ran 14 miles straight then walked 12.2 miles back to the car. I have since then embraced training. I like racing, but I like training, too. Even if I didn't race I would still SBR. It's my movement of choice. Something happens to me during races. Something takes over that I have tried to replicate in training and haven't been able to so far. I do times that I don't do in training (much, much better). That's why I don't do recreational races, I can't stop myself from going hard :D When I'm out there running and biking I will literally just yell out loud, because it feels so good (kinda hard to do while swimming). I usually look around and make sure no one is around but sometimes I forget, especially if I'm particularly pooped. Last Saturday I got to the end of this really hard five mile climb called The Loop and let out a Yeeeeeaaaaaarrrrh kinda yell. Right then a car passed me with their window rolled down (it's a slow speed scenic loop drive that gives access to all the trailheads). Guy looks at me, smiles, sticks his right arm out the window of the car, and gives me a little victory pump lol |
| 2013-06-05 11:21 AM in reply to: GatorDeb |
Science Nerd 28760 Redwood City, California | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Originally posted by GatorDeb And, of course, there's health benefits associated with my newfound healthy lifetime =) And I'm highly competitive, just slow, and the slow can't last forever. It's mostly a case of you either build endurance or speed and it's hard to do both, and since I've done both at the same, the progress for each is smaller. I can now be working out nine hours straight!! Holy crap, Deb! That's an amazing transformation!! I hope you are very very proud of yourself. |
| 2013-06-05 11:30 AM in reply to: turtlegirl |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Originally posted by turtlegirl Originally posted by squirt Deb, just wanted to comment on your amazing transformation. You don't lose that kind of weight without some incredible determination over the long term. I think that is what it takes to complete an ironman. For that reason alone, I would bet on you to get there! This time?? Next time?? I have no idea. And it doesn't really matter as much as the continuation of your journey does. Enjoy the ride!
agreed! amazing. and one of the most underrated qualities of all ironmen is being stubborn. In long course, its a good trait to have! Unless you stick by your terrible coach and are training yourself into a brick wall. |
| 2013-06-05 11:36 AM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Originally posted by GMAN 19030 Originally posted by turtlegirl Originally posted by squirt Deb, just wanted to comment on your amazing transformation. You don't lose that kind of weight without some incredible determination over the long term. I think that is what it takes to complete an ironman. For that reason alone, I would bet on you to get there! This time?? Next time?? I have no idea. And it doesn't really matter as much as the continuation of your journey does. Enjoy the ride!
agreed! amazing. and one of the most underrated qualities of all ironmen is being stubborn. In long course, its a good trait to have! Unless you stick by your terrible coach and are training yourself into a brick wall. stubborn is good when you are doing the right thing, and terrible when you are doing the wrong thing. |
| 2013-06-05 11:41 AM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Elite 3770 | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Originally posted by GMAN 19030 Originally posted by turtlegirl Originally posted by squirt Deb, just wanted to comment on your amazing transformation. You don't lose that kind of weight without some incredible determination over the long term. I think that is what it takes to complete an ironman. For that reason alone, I would bet on you to get there! This time?? Next time?? I have no idea. And it doesn't really matter as much as the continuation of your journey does. Enjoy the ride!
agreed! amazing. and one of the most underrated qualities of all ironmen is being stubborn. In long course, its a good trait to have! Unless you stick by your terrible coach and are training yourself into a brick wall. of course. I'm thinking more of stubborn in the actual race. |
| 2013-06-05 1:10 PM in reply to: GatorDeb |
Extreme Veteran 929 , Kobenhavns Kommune | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Originally posted by GatorDeb And, of course, there's health benefits associated with my newfound healthy lifetime =) And I'm highly competitive, just slow, and the slow can't last forever. It's mostly a case of you either build endurance or speed and it's hard to do both, and since I've done both at the same, the progress for each is smaller. I can now be working out nine hours straight!! Deb, I've asked in the previous monster thread as well and you didn't answer: Surely we see now more explicitly the transformation you've gone through, and everyone will understand if you fear going back the route to obesity. Are you still holding onto your weight loss diet? You need an appropriate diet to support your physical activity level and build muscle and strength. If you don't adjust your diet accordingly then you just won't improve regardless of how much training you do. So, have you talked with your coach about diet? I'm not talking about nutrition pre-, during and post-exercise, but what to eat and how much? Or have you consulted a dietician to help you find a healthy diet that allow you to improve your fitness? This diet may imply gaining weight, not weight as fat, but weight as in muscle - healthy weight. Short term, as in up to your race, this won't make any difference, but if you want to improve your performance for future races then apart from reviewing your training plan you should review your diet. BR |
| 2013-06-05 2:13 PM in reply to: erik.norgaard |
Regular 1893 Las Vegas, NV | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Science Nerd - Thanks! GMAN - that's your OPINION, and I disagree. erik - Yep, we have sat down and gone over that. I have a range of calories for days I don't work out and then increase depending on the day's workout, and specific targets for example for a long bike ride. For long workouts I log into TP what I had during the workout. |
| 2013-06-05 2:41 PM in reply to: GatorDeb |
Expert 1130 Fernandina Beach, FL | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Originally posted by GatorDeb Science Nerd - Thanks! GMAN - that's your OPINION, and I disagree. erik - Yep, we have sat down and gone over that. I have a range of calories for days I don't work out and then increase depending on the day's workout, and specific targets for example for a long bike ride. For long workouts I log into TP what I had during the workout. I don't exactly have the most room to talk here as I'm just beginning training for my first IM in Nov., but I tend to agree with GMAN's opinion. I've hired a coach and expect that he'll have me ready for my IM (so far things are going GREAT). If I'm not ready, and I've followed the plan accordingly, I would feel as though my coach failed me (I don't see this being the case). The transformation you've made is amazing, there's no doubt. I haven't followed what a lot of others seem to know about you, but your change shows that you're clearly motivated enough to finish what you start out. To Erik's point: my coach answers questions about pre race and race nutrition. I haven't asked him any daily diet questions and wouldn't expect any answers in that department from him. That's what nutritionist are for right? How long have you been with your coach? From a running standpoint I wouldn't expect to run a standalone marathon avg less than 25 mpw. Either way best of luck, I'll definitely be looking up your bib number on raceday |
| 2013-06-05 5:03 PM in reply to: GatorDeb |
Master 1858 Salt Lake City | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? One question you've yet to answer on any of your threads Deb, What training plan has your coach outlined, and have you been following it? |
| 2013-06-05 5:09 PM in reply to: JZig |
Regular 1893 Las Vegas, NV | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Originally posted by JZig One question you've yet to answer on any of your threads Deb, What training plan has your coach outlined, and have you been following it? I HAVE answered this before It's basically one intervals bike ride, one HR based ride (i.e. hold this for X mins, this for X mins, etc.), one long ride, one short intervals/HR levels/hills/etc shorter run, one long run, three group swim sessions, 2 strength sessions, and I follow it to the T. |
| 2013-06-05 5:14 PM in reply to: GatorDeb |
Master 1858 Salt Lake City | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? So.... 3x Bike 2x run 3x swim ????????? Are you serious? I train more than this for a sprint. |
| 2013-06-05 8:16 PM in reply to: GatorDeb |
Pro 5169 Burbs | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Originally posted by GatorDeb Originally posted by JZig One question you've yet to answer on any of your threads Deb, What training plan has your coach outlined, and have you been following it? I HAVE answered this before It's basically one intervals bike ride, one HR based ride (i.e. hold this for X mins, this for X mins, etc.), one long ride, one short intervals/HR levels/hills/etc shorter run, one long run, three group swim sessions, 2 strength sessions, and I follow it to the T. I'd suggest that you don't have the base mileage to support speedwork. Also, is that really just two runs/ week? I think it would benefit you to replace the strength with (a lot) more SBR. |
| 2013-06-05 8:27 PM in reply to: trishie |
Elite 3770 | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? I'd aim for 4 runs a week (and add 2 miles post long bike, so really 5) as 2 easy runs, one long, one interval with long intervals.3 master swims3 bike as 1 interval, 1 long, 1 either as recovery or hill repeat.Yoga as strength/flexibility once a week, and at least 1 massage a month. |
| 2013-06-05 9:33 PM in reply to: turtlegirl |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Deb you have made huge changes. Your photos are amazing. I wish you well and hope you have an awesome day a IMCdA in a couple weeks. After your race, you should look back at your training and preparation to your first IM and analyze what went well, what didn't go so well and see what you can do differently. I also agree with others have said that you have a lot of untapped potential and will continue to see speed gains in your future. If you look at most training most triathletes run 3-6x a week. For me the more often I run building into it smart the better my run is in an IM which meant 4 to 5 runs a week. Use your determination to execute the best race you can on IM day. Execution based on real proved fitness is key to having best possible day on IM day. |
| 2013-06-05 11:44 PM in reply to: KathyG |
Regular 1893 Las Vegas, NV | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Well, here's my training volumes for 2012 and 2013: 2013 (up to Sunday, 23 weeks) Bike 167.55 2230 miles Strength 42.95 Run 65.28 364.18 mi Swim 84.6 177000 meters 360.38 / 15.66 hours/week with strength 317.43 / 13.80 hours/week without strength 2012 Bike 238.98 3010 miles Strength 88.97 Run 123.25 626.71 mi Swim 161.1 297000 meters 612.3 / 11.77 hours/week with strength 523.33 / 10.06 hours/week without strength I have mentioned before that strength has done a lot for me. I have a labral tear on my left shoulder, and before I hooked up with my current coach, I didn't use my left arm at all because of the pain. I wouldn't open doors, carry grocery bags, or use it for driving if I could help it. I did go to the surgeon and he said to hold off surgery until the pain became unbearable. Since I started strength training, I now don't even think about it. Open doors, carry 5-6 grocery bags at a time without pain, drive, etc. I went from 70% pain 6-7 on a scale from 1-10 to ~5% pain 2. It is like night and day. The increase of quality of life from the strength has been unbelievable, and I won't give it up, since Life > Triathlon. Those numbers include base building. My body couldn't go right into heavy training weeks. And some bodies take longer than others to adapt. I started 1.5 years before the Ironman and set a goal. If my body takes longer, it takes longer. If it was enough, then it was enough. Every body reacts differently and takes different amounts of time to adapt. In the overall scheme of life, I am happy with the progress. I feel I have done enough to toe the starting line. Somebody trains more than 13.80 hours for a Sprint? Must be going for a high placing, because I don't think most people would say you need that many hours for a Sprint. |
| 2013-06-06 12:45 AM in reply to: GatorDeb |
Extreme Veteran 1136 | Subject: RE: Why do I fall apart during my long runs? Originally posted by GatorDeb Somebody trains more than 13.80 hours for a Sprint? Must be going for a high placing, because I don't think most people would say you need that many hours for a Sprint. Probably not, but I would recommend that they run more than 2x per week.. I think the general concensus is that your 2x per week running as waaaaaay too few runs per week for IM distance. That forces you to do only 1 short run, then 1 monster run, and that's not a good ratio of long run distance to total weekly mileage. I know things have gone way off track here, but this is the answer to your original question... you are falling apart on your long runs because you simply don't have the base to support that much running all at once. If your coach created this plan, then he/she seems to be creating plans that defy conventional training best practices. x2 to the recommendation to do a time check when you get off the bike and figure out how much walking you can get away with. Better yet, have someone there spectating do the math for you as you will be tired. Shoot for a pace slightly ahead of the "bare minimum" to allow for some slowdown later in the marathon. I wish you luck. |
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