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How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM
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 2013-08-14 1:59 PM |
Member  1293    Pearland,Tx |  Subject: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IMGuys I am just curious for an athlete training for Full IM how many IRON BRICKS= Century Ride + 20 plus mi run/walk is needed during training or before raceday? I like doing MS150's and i always see these fast cyclist that passed me and see them back running. just curious guys  Edited by strykergt 2013-08-14 2:07 PM |
| 2013-08-14 2:17 PM in reply to: strykergt |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM zero. most people should probably only attempt those on race day. |
| 2013-08-14 2:44 PM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
| Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM Originally posted by JohnnyKay zero. most people should probably only attempt those on race day. Yikes. X a million. Zero. |
| 2013-08-14 4:07 PM in reply to: strykergt |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM A 100 mile bike followed by a 20 mile run would put you in a HUGE recovery hole that would have a downstream effect on future workouts that could last for weeks. Real bad idea. |
| 2013-08-14 4:22 PM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Member 1293 Pearland,Tx | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM Originally posted by GMAN 19030 A 100 mile bike followed by a 20 mile run would put you in a HUGE recovery hole that would have a downstream effect on future workouts that could last for weeks. Real bad idea. honestly man im curious why they do it. Its my third MS150 and it happens on April one month before IMTX and its always on the first day century ride there are 3 atleast that pass me by 30 miles closer to La Grange (first day finish) then i see them running or walking back ? ?? and im sure they are training for a tri event since they are on compression sleeves,socks ,trisuits.  |
| 2013-08-14 4:38 PM in reply to: strykergt |
| Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM There are a lot of people that do a lot of stupid stuff training for IM, most often because they see someone else doing it |
| 2013-08-14 4:48 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
Member 347 Scottsdale, AZ | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM Totally agree with Gman and Chris here. I will do about a half dozen brick workouts leading up to IMAZ but the run portion will never be more than 3 miles. For me, I struggle with running too fast off the bike which causes sloppy form and an elevated HR. I really try and focus on slowing it down while keeping good form. Anything longer than 3 miles for me is a complete waste of time and quite honestly, a detriment to my training/recovery. |
| 2013-08-14 4:52 PM in reply to: strykergt |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM |
| 2013-08-14 5:22 PM in reply to: strykergt |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM Originally posted by strykergt Originally posted by GMAN 19030 honestly man im curious why they do it. Its my third MS150 and it happens on April one month before IMTX and its always on the first day century ride there are 3 atleast that pass me by 30 miles closer to La Grange (first day finish) then i see them running or walking back ? ?? and im sure they are training for a tri event since they are on compression sleeves,socks ,trisuits. A 100 mile bike followed by a 20 mile run would put you in a HUGE recovery hole that would have a downstream effect on future workouts that could last for weeks. Real bad idea.
Like someone already mentioned... people are stupid lemmings. They saw/read/heard about someone else doing it and thought they should do it too. There's a reason a lot of coaches tell their athletes to "watch what the majority of the field does and then do the opposite." That's because the majority of folks doing an IM train and race like idiots. There's nothing wrong with doing a race rehearsal where you would ride 100 and then run 6 miles to test out your nutrition strategy. |
| 2013-08-14 5:45 PM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Extreme Veteran 1001 Highlands Ranch, Colorado | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM There was an article on Trathlete.com saying that you should do a "Metric IM Brick" 100K (62 miles) and 26.2K (16.3 miles). That still sounds like a lot to recover from but more doable than a full IM Brick. |
| 2013-08-14 5:56 PM in reply to: rick4657 |
Member 347 Scottsdale, AZ | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM ^^^ Sheesh... |
| 2013-08-14 6:03 PM in reply to: rick4657 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM Originally posted by rick4657 There was an article on Trathlete.com saying that you should do a "Metric IM Brick" 100K (62 miles) and 26.2K (16.3 miles). That still sounds like a lot to recover from but more doable than a full IM Brick. More doable but still a bad idea. Shane |
| 2013-08-19 1:13 PM in reply to: rick4657 |
Veteran 134 Murfreesboro, TN | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM Originally posted by rick4657 There was an article on Trathlete.com saying that you should do a "Metric IM Brick" 100K (62 miles) and 26.2K (16.3 miles). That still sounds like a lot to recover from but more doable than a full IM Brick. HA !!!! I did that this weekend, except one on Saturday and one on Sunday Guess that's not technically a brick. I did however, run 2 miles off the bike on Saturday. |
| 2013-08-22 4:50 PM in reply to: rick4657 |
Member 1293 Pearland,Tx | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM Originally posted by rick4657 There was an article on Trathlete.com saying that you should do a "Metric IM Brick" 100K (62 miles) and 26.2K (16.3 miles). That still sounds like a lot to recover from but more doable than a full IM Brick. I do agree I just read Don Fink's be Ironfit on the peak weeks 1 Half Iron is planned. which is technically in Metric 1.9Km/90Km/20km |
| 2013-08-24 3:33 PM in reply to: #4829160 |
Member 352 Indianapolis | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM I'm training forIMFL and I am doing long bricks every weekend, but long brick is relative. I think the longest combo I've done is a 60 mile ride by 10 mile run. I'm also doing 1 HIM in two weeks. My coach believes in building a solid endurance base, but we NEVER run more than 2-3 miles after a century ride, and that is only to get a feel of how it feels to run after being in the saddle that long. |
| 2013-08-24 9:08 PM in reply to: strykergt |
Master 1704 Charlotte | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM Zero. Don Fink Competitive plan would have you do 100+ mile ride with an hour run brick but those were built up slowly through out the 30 weeks. Never would dream about running 20m after a 100m ride. Next day, yes. Same day...no way! |
| 2013-08-25 12:08 AM in reply to: strykergt |
| Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM For 99.99% of people, the answer should be zero. That said...if you're the type of person who can run say a 2:30 open marathon, and a sub 3 IM marathon...20 miles probably doesn't take you that long to run...even at an easy/moderate effort. The recovery costs for such an athlete (there are not many of them) would not be as great as your typical age grouper, especially when you assume that they have a huge fitness/endurance base. It would still be extreme though. |
| 2013-08-27 8:48 AM in reply to: strykergt |
Veteran 784 | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM Oh man....zero, not even close.. |
| 2013-08-27 11:54 AM in reply to: Jorgito22 |
Member 241 | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM I just finished my first IM and I did 2 "Big Day" bricks. They were 1 hr swim, 5 hrs bike and 1 hr run. I actually wished I would have done three Big Days in this way: 1. 1 hr swim, 5 hrs Bike, 1 hr run 2. 1 hr swim, 5 hrs Bike, 2 hr run 3. 6 hrs Bike, 2 hr run My body was not adjusted at all to the effects of fatigue past that 6-7 hr mark and I did not really figure out how to handle my nutrition past those points of exhaustion. I think a Century followed by a 20 miler is crazy in training because you lose so much in the lead-up and recovery after that workout. But at least for me getting up and past that 8-hour mark would have given me better info on my preparation and soundness of my nutrition plan. As it was I did about 30 mins more than what I wanted to do on the bike and then the 2nd half of the marathon was a death march. I probably walked about 7 miles of the marathon. I was so depleted that I almost pull out luckily they had salt tablets and Coke on the course. I hadn't tried training significantly with these before but with about 6.5 miles to go in the marathon I fueled with these and it saved my race and I was able to finish strong. Lesson learned: Put in enough long stuff to properly try out your individual nutrition needs. |
| 2013-08-28 7:35 AM in reply to: Lock_N_Load |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM Originally posted by Lock_N_Load 1. 1 hr swim, 5 hrs Bike, 1 hr run 2. 1 hr swim, 5 hrs Bike, 2 hr run 3. 6 hrs Bike, 2 hr run Those kinds of workouts should not be used by most people prepping for an IM. And I doubt you are coorect about the lesson you should have learned. But congrats on finishing despite the issues you faced. |
| 2013-08-28 9:24 AM in reply to: rick4657 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM Originally posted by rick4657 There was an article on Trathlete.com saying that you should do a "Metric IM Brick" 100K (62 miles) and 26.2K (16.3 miles). That still sounds like a lot to recover from but more doable than a full IM Brick. Do a HIM as a training day and that is pretty much done. Close enough. |
| 2013-08-28 9:39 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM Originally posted by Lock_N_Load I just finished my first IM and I did 2 "Big Day" bricks. They were 1 hr swim, 5 hrs bike and 1 hr run. I actually wished I would have done three Big Days in this way: 1. 1 hr swim, 5 hrs Bike, 1 hr run 2. 1 hr swim, 5 hrs Bike, 2 hr run 3. 6 hrs Bike, 2 hr run My body was not adjusted at all to the effects of fatigue past that 6-7 hr mark and I did not really figure out how to handle my nutrition past those points of exhaustion. I think a Century followed by a 20 miler is crazy in training because you lose so much in the lead-up and recovery after that workout. But at least for me getting up and past that 8-hour mark would have given me better info on my preparation and soundness of my nutrition plan. As it was I did about 30 mins more than what I wanted to do on the bike and then the 2nd half of the marathon was a death march. I probably walked about 7 miles of the marathon. I was so depleted that I almost pull out luckily they had salt tablets and Coke on the course. I hadn't tried training significantly with these before but with about 6.5 miles to go in the marathon I fueled with these and it saved my race and I was able to finish strong. Lesson learned: Put in enough long stuff to properly try out your individual nutrition needs. To riff off Johnny's comment... "Big Day Bricks" or whatever you want to call them wouldn't have helped your issue. Some questions: What race was it? How do you train on the bike (power, HR, RPE)? What were your bike metrics on race day? Bike time? How many calories did you take in on the bike and in what form? What happened to you was probably very simple: your bike execution was poor. You probably need to work on your pacing and nutritional intake (sounds like we're saying the same thing but we're not). You likely overdid the bike (both in effort and time) and it doesn't sound like you had a good nutrition plan. Your bike execution and nutrition is there to set you up for the run and not to just get you through the bike. Your comment of "I did not really figure out how to handle my nutrition past those points of exhaustion" is kind of telling. You're not supposed to be exhausted in an IM until somewhere near the very end of the run. If you're exhausted at any point prior to around mile 20 on the run then you did something wrong. Sure, we're all tired, sore, worn out or whatever but you shouldn't be exhausted. Edited by GMAN 19030 2013-08-28 9:40 AM |
| 2013-08-28 10:54 AM in reply to: Lock_N_Load |
Veteran 784 | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM Originally posted by Lock_N_Load I just finished my first IM and I did 2 "Big Day" bricks. They were 1 hr swim, 5 hrs bike and 1 hr run. I actually wished I would have done three Big Days in this way: 1. 1 hr swim, 5 hrs Bike, 1 hr run 2. 1 hr swim, 5 hrs Bike, 2 hr run 3. 6 hrs Bike, 2 hr run My body was not adjusted at all to the effects of fatigue past that 6-7 hr mark and I did not really figure out how to handle my nutrition past those points of exhaustion. I think a Century followed by a 20 miler is crazy in training because you lose so much in the lead-up and recovery after that workout. But at least for me getting up and past that 8-hour mark would have given me better info on my preparation and soundness of my nutrition plan. As it was I did about 30 mins more than what I wanted to do on the bike and then the 2nd half of the marathon was a death march. I probably walked about 7 miles of the marathon. I was so depleted that I almost pull out luckily they had salt tablets and Coke on the course. I hadn't tried training significantly with these before but with about 6.5 miles to go in the marathon I fueled with these and it saved my race and I was able to finish strong. Lesson learned: Put in enough long stuff to properly try out your individual nutrition needs. Just curious how far out from the IM did you complete these bricks? seems on race day you just didnt have your nutrition down, if your putting down that kind of training days, there is no reason why your body could not go beyond the 8 hour mark. but congrats on the finish |
| 2013-08-28 4:15 PM in reply to: Jorgito22 |
Member 241 | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM Originally posted by Jorgito22 Originally posted by Lock_N_Load I just finished my first IM and I did 2 "Big Day" bricks. They were 1 hr swim, 5 hrs bike and 1 hr run. I actually wished I would have done three Big Days in this way: 1. 1 hr swim, 5 hrs Bike, 1 hr run 2. 1 hr swim, 5 hrs Bike, 2 hr run 3. 6 hrs Bike, 2 hr run My body was not adjusted at all to the effects of fatigue past that 6-7 hr mark and I did not really figure out how to handle my nutrition past those points of exhaustion. I think a Century followed by a 20 miler is crazy in training because you lose so much in the lead-up and recovery after that workout. But at least for me getting up and past that 8-hour mark would have given me better info on my preparation and soundness of my nutrition plan. As it was I did about 30 mins more than what I wanted to do on the bike and then the 2nd half of the marathon was a death march. I probably walked about 7 miles of the marathon. I was so depleted that I almost pull out luckily they had salt tablets and Coke on the course. I hadn't tried training significantly with these before but with about 6.5 miles to go in the marathon I fueled with these and it saved my race and I was able to finish strong. Lesson learned: Put in enough long stuff to properly try out your individual nutrition needs. Just curious how far out from the IM did you complete these bricks? seems on race day you just didnt have your nutrition down, if your putting down that kind of training days, there is no reason why your body could not go beyond the 8 hour mark. but congrats on the finish I only completed the first 2 workouts and the second did not include a swim. BTW, this is what Joe Friel recommends in Training Bible. I did the last one two weeks before the race. I wish I would have gone longer to challenge my nutritional needs more and to have one more try to get the mix right. I believe the assessment that my bike killed me is probably correct. My goal was 6.5 hrs and I took 7:08 hrs, although 10 mins of that was changing a flat tire and 5 mins going to the bathroom. It was also windy as hell. I finished the bike more tired that I should have been. I could tell my nutrition was throwing me off already. The first 1/2 marathon was great (I did it in under 2.5, which is what I wanted) then the wheels fell off. I was dizzy, wobbly, bloated and could only walk. I seriously considered pulling out. I chalk this up to some lack of preparation on the bike and not taking in the right nutrition. With about 7 miles to go I finally took a salt tablet and some coke (both of which I did not try in training, but I was desperate) and this literally resurrectd me. After that I was able to run the rest of the way in with the last 5K being an all out run since I felt so good. My goal was 14 hours and these issues (and a flat tire) resulted in a 14:50 finishing time. Overall I'm stoked I stuck to it and finished but I feel I needed one more big brick to try out other nutrition options and to give me more bike/run time. Although, truth be told, I think if I would have figured out the sodium/caffeine solution at the half marathon I probably could have brought it in at 14 hours or better. I'll get it right next time... |
| 2013-08-28 4:26 PM in reply to: strykergt |
| 8 | Subject: RE: How many IRON Bricks? in training for IM I followed the Don Fink competitive plan on my first IM. It has you doing 2 a week, one short 45min bike w/ 15 min run during the week, then a 1 hr run after 5 or 6 hr bike toward the end of the plan on the weekend. I think this saved me as I did not blow up on the run as the majority of people do in IM races. |
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