Cheaters at local race (Page 2)
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2013-08-19 7:50 AM in reply to: happyscientist |
New user 81 | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Do you all really believe that listening to music is cheating?? I don't know I'm a pretty competitive racer and can usually finish in the top 5 of my age group but cheating to me would be cutting the course or lying about your age, not listening to music. I have never used ear buds not even in training because I like to think during my runs and you have to be nuts to do it when riding, but cheating?? |
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2013-08-19 8:17 AM in reply to: mikealti62 |
1159 | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Originally posted by mikealti62 Do you all really believe that listening to music is cheating?? I don't know I'm a pretty competitive racer and can usually finish in the top 5 of my age group but cheating to me would be cutting the course or lying about your age, not listening to music. I have never used ear buds not even in training because I like to think during my runs and you have to be nuts to do it when riding, but cheating?? if you work by the definition of cheating is the breaking of rules, then yes, the listening of music during the race when specifically prohibited by the rules is cheating...how do "we" (as in a general consensus we) know that you aren't getting guided coaching with the music - pre-programs tracks etc... |
2013-08-19 9:23 AM in reply to: the bear |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Originally posted by the bear Originally posted by RedCorvette It's against USAT rules all the time. USATF made it up to the descretion of their race directors a couple of years ago. As far as the USAT, it's covered in a couple of places: Rule 3.4d Unauthorized Assistance, which prohibits pacing devices. Rule 3.4i Unauthorized Accessories, which addresses it from a safety standpoint. I guess I've always considered willful breaking of any rule to be cheating. Mark
3.4d (or anything else in the USAT rules) does not prohibit pacing devices. They're quite legal and used extensively, as every watch and Garmin is a pacing device. You are correct that 3.4i prohibits personal audio devices. Yeah, you're right about the 'devices' not including watches, etc. (Or even the mile pace clocks used at many races). I should have been more specific that I was referring to using an iPod w/earphones as a pacing device, which is illegal. Mark |
2013-08-19 9:30 AM in reply to: RedCorvette |
Pro 5761 Bartlett, TN | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race At my last Olympic race, I saw a guy cut the course. He was running towards me and then cut across the road to stretch. I asked if he was ok cause I thought it was wierd to cross the road to stretch when he could have on his side. About a minute later he passed me and I said, all better huh? He said yeah it was cramps. I then called him out and said I saw you cut the course. He said no he didn't, that he was on a relay team??? Relays still run the same distance as everyone else and I saw you run across the road! He then began to say he did not have to explain anything to me, which I replied, 'No you don't, but you will have to explain it to the next race official I see!"
And I did tell a race official. I cannot say that they did anything about it, but I felt like I owed it to everyone of the triathletes that did the full distance. |
2013-08-19 9:46 AM in reply to: Experior |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Originally posted by Experior Having said that, worrying about it is pretty much the epitome of a first world problem... If we stopped worrying about those, this website would fold. |
2013-08-19 10:09 AM in reply to: Goosedog |
Master 3888 Overland Park, KS | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race You could have someone take a picture of those three on the bike course, put a caption on it for public viewing. Something like "The local banana republic, draft dodgers they are not...." |
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2013-08-19 10:47 AM in reply to: reecealan |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race I am sympathetic to the moral indignation that some folks feel when they see blatant cheating going on, but at the end of the day the only person you have control over is the person you face in the mirror every morning. The reality is that not all of us have a moral compass that points in the same direction. Whether you want to call it 'rule breaking' or 'cheating' doesn't really make any difference. It's the same thing. The rules exist for a purpose, whether to insure fair competition, safeguard the competitors, address legal liabilities, or whatever. Rules are rules. If you don't like one, then there are ways to petition for changes through the organizing bodies. Just because you don't happen to agree with a rule, do you have the right to blatantly disregard it. I get as aggravated as anyone when I see some FOPers tucked into a tight pace line. But what I think what upsets me even more are folks who don't even bother to read the published rules of the sport, then get all upset when they find out the rules aren't what they think they should be. If it really bothers you that much, then sign up to take the USAT officials course. Mark
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2013-08-19 10:56 AM in reply to: 0 |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Originally posted by RedCorvette If it really bothers you that much, then sign up to take the USAT officials course. Here's what I do - I let the RD know that it matters to me. After just about every race, especially ones new to me, I email the RD or fill out the post-race survey. I let them know both the good and the bad. If I see cheating, which is rare, I let them know and ask that they do something the next year to better enforce the rules. I want to let them know that a clean race matters to me. For those suggesting that we as athletes should just focus on our own training, typing these few sentences to the RD takes all of about 90 seconds. If you would like to see RD's take measures to prevent cheating in the races you do, I encourage you to do the same. Edited by Goosedog 2013-08-19 10:57 AM |
2013-08-19 12:10 PM in reply to: Goosedog |
Veteran 154 Richmond, KY | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race It's it possible that at this particular race or many of the others that they aren't fully sanctioned races and therefore, running under a relaxed set of rules? If that's the case then it's just 'our' own set of 'rules' that we are applying. Don't get me wrong, I follow the rules when I'm competing, but whether someone else does or not isn't really my problem and worrying about it is just a waste of my time. |
2013-08-19 1:03 PM in reply to: tsprks |
Master 3127 Sunny Southern Cal | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race This reminds me of a charity fun run I did with my older son last year at his school. They carved out a 3k course throughout the school grounds. My older son is not much of a runner/athlete, but he was a good sport about doing this event to benefit his school. So we showed up early one Saturday morning for this thing, and he told me to just go ahead if I wanted. So I ended up taking off ahead for a stretch and then I'd loop back on the course and get him running again and provide him some encouragement. Then I'd take off again and do it all over again. At one point, I'd dropped back behind him to some point on the course with plans to catch up, then realized I wasn't going to catch back up before making the bend towards the finish which I wanted to cross with him. So I cut over to where he was. Well, this lady on the course sees this and completely goes off on me, yelling "CHEATER !! Cheaters only cheat themselves ... blah blah blah" and all sorts of crap at me. I'm just looking at her like the dumb *#$& that she was. So yeah, I probably did 6k out there but got pegged for being a "cheater". Which brings me to my point. Worry about yourself. You might see other people cheat. You might see something that looks like cheating but isn't for whatever reason. Just because it looks like some guy is ditching scuba fins a couple hundred yards from the swim finish doesn't mean he was wearing them, right? |
2013-08-19 2:50 PM in reply to: mikealti62 |
Houston | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Originally posted by mikealti62 Do you all really believe that listening to music is cheating?? I don't know I'm a pretty competitive racer and can usually finish in the top 5 of my age group but cheating to me would be cutting the course or lying about your age, not listening to music. I have never used ear buds not even in training because I like to think during my runs and you have to be nuts to do it when riding, but cheating?? I think the rule against using audio devices at a race is silly. I use my ipod at running races all the time. However, they are banned at triathlon. So you know what? I don't use my ipod in triathlon competitions. (I wish I could though). |
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2013-08-19 2:56 PM in reply to: gotab |
282 | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Originally posted by gotab Originally posted by mikealti62 Do you all really believe that listening to music is cheating?? I don't know I'm a pretty competitive racer and can usually finish in the top 5 of my age group but cheating to me would be cutting the course or lying about your age, not listening to music. I have never used ear buds not even in training because I like to think during my runs and you have to be nuts to do it when riding, but cheating?? I think the rule against using audio devices at a race is silly. I use my ipod at running races all the time. However, they are banned at triathlon. So you know what? I don't use my ipod in triathlon competitions. (I wish I could though). They are banned at most running races as well (this is for safety reasons, same as it is for Triathlons not because there is any performance benefit from it). At least they are banned at every running race I know of. Maybe this is a large vs small running race difference? |
2013-08-19 3:17 PM in reply to: #4832068 |
Veteran 154 Richmond, KY | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race I run in a HM with about 4000 participants and another with about 18000 each year and both allow music devices. For running I don't see the problem. |
2013-08-19 3:20 PM in reply to: gotab |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Originally posted by gotab Originally posted by mikealti62 Do you all really believe that listening to music is cheating?? I don't know I'm a pretty competitive racer and can usually finish in the top 5 of my age group but cheating to me would be cutting the course or lying about your age, not listening to music. I have never used ear buds not even in training because I like to think during my runs and you have to be nuts to do it when riding, but cheating?? I think the rule against using audio devices at a race is silly. I think the rule against using audio devices should be strictly enforced. |
2013-08-19 3:22 PM in reply to: mrbbrad |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Originally posted by mrbbrad I think the rule against using audio devices should be strictly enforced. I think we might have discussed this before and snipers were involved. |
2013-08-19 3:26 PM in reply to: tsprks |
553 St Catharines, Ontario | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Originally posted by tsprks I run in a HM with about 4000 participants and another with about 18000 each year and both allow music devices. For running I don't see the problem. My local running series posts this for every race: Course Safety: For everyone’s safety no strollers, dogs or bicycles on the course please. We also strongly recommend that you do not wear headphones while participating. Loads still have thier headphones in and therefore cant hear marshals instructions, or someone coming up behind them. Seems suicidal on a bike when you need to call out so often. I does seem to me to be an expression of "I value the help of having music to support me mentally over the value I place on others safety". Also how will you ever heart someone wolf whistle you with buds in!!! :-) |
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2013-08-19 3:28 PM in reply to: Goosedog |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Originally posted by Goosedog Originally posted by mrbbrad I think the rule against using audio devices should be strictly enforced. I think we might have discussed this before and snipers were involved.
I still think a really good sniper can disable the audio device with minimal damage to the person wearing it. |
2013-08-19 3:31 PM in reply to: Chillin |
Alpharetta, Georgia | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Originally posted by Chillin At least they are banned at every running race I know of. Maybe this is a large vs small running race difference? They aren't banned at races like Dallas Marathon, Chicago Marathon, the entire Rock N Roll series... just going by ones I've done. I'm assuming there are more. |
2013-08-19 3:58 PM in reply to: lisac957 |
282 | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Originally posted by lisac957 Originally posted by Chillin At least they are banned at every running race I know of. Maybe this is a large vs small running race difference? They aren't banned at races like Dallas Marathon, Chicago Marathon, the entire Rock N Roll series... just going by ones I've done. I'm assuming there are more. Well for the dallas marathon it does say you are not allowed to wear them at the start or finish, so as long as you put them on after you start and take them off before you finish you are ok I guess. And for the chicago marathon it says nothing about ipods specifically, but it does say cell phones are not allowed, so for most people that means no music. :p So maybe the difference is a more regional or national thing (I am not in the US)? Anyways here is a somewhat official answer: While the use of headphones used to be officially banned in many races, over the years, the rules have been relaxed. In 2008, the U.S. Track & Field (USATF) -- the governing body for long-distance running and track & field in the United States -- amended their rule banning headphones and other music playing devices at all USATF-sanctioned running events. The USATF's rule previously had banned the use of headphones by all runners. Now it limits the ban to "those competing in Championships for awards, medals, or prize money." Despite the official change, many race directors still discourage use of headphones and personal music devices during races for safety reasons. If you're listening to music during a race, you may not be able to hear instructions from race officials and other runners on the course. One of the basic rules of racing etiquette is that you can hear others, so you can move out of the way or stop, when necessary. The other warning about wearing headphones during a race is that you'll miss out on a lot of the race excitement. You won't be able to listen to bands, hear people cheering, or talk to other runners. ^That last reason is my main personal reason for not wanting to listen to music during a race. |
2013-08-19 4:03 PM in reply to: Chillin |
Alpharetta, Georgia | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Originally posted by Chillin Originally posted by lisac957 Well for the dallas marathon it does say you are not allowed to wear them at the start or finish, so as long as you put them on after you start and take them off before you finish you are ok I guess. And for the chicago marathon it says nothing about ipods specifically, but it does say cell phones are not allowed, so for most people that means no music. :p Originally posted by Chillin At least they are banned at every running race I know of. Maybe this is a large vs small running race difference? They aren't banned at races like Dallas Marathon, Chicago Marathon, the entire Rock N Roll series... just going by ones I've done. I'm assuming there are more. Eh? From the Chicago Marathon link I posted: Can I run with an iPod/headphones? |
2013-08-19 4:12 PM in reply to: 0 |
282 | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Originally posted by lisac957 Originally posted by Chillin Originally posted by lisac957 Well for the dallas marathon it does say you are not allowed to wear them at the start or finish, so as long as you put them on after you start and take them off before you finish you are ok I guess. And for the chicago marathon it says nothing about ipods specifically, but it does say cell phones are not allowed, so for most people that means no music. :p Originally posted by Chillin At least they are banned at every running race I know of. Maybe this is a large vs small running race difference? They aren't banned at races like Dallas Marathon, Chicago Marathon, the entire Rock N Roll series... just going by ones I've done. I'm assuming there are more. Eh? From the Chicago Marathon link I posted: Can I run with an iPod/headphones? My mistake, the Rules said nothing about music devices. You are correct, the FAQs did address it. EDIT: but, of course, that is the same thing. If the rules don't forbid it then it is allowed. Edited by Chillin 2013-08-19 4:16 PM |
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2013-08-19 4:16 PM in reply to: Goosedog |
Houston | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Originally posted by Goosedog Originally posted by mrbbrad I think the rule against using audio devices should be strictly enforced. I think we might have discussed this before and snipers were involved. I remember that discussion. |
2013-08-19 4:21 PM in reply to: Chillin |
Houston | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Originally posted by Chillin Originally posted by lisac957 The other warning about wearing headphones during a race is that you'll miss out on a lot of the race excitement. You won't be able to listen to bands, hear people cheering, or talk to other runners. This is the main reason I like wearing them. I hate talking to other runners. Also, I really don't want to hear some frat boy spectator yelling at me to "put on a shirt fattie*!" But like I said, if they were banned (not discouraged, BANNED, as they are in triathlons, then I would not wear them). *Yes, happened to me.* |
2013-08-19 4:27 PM in reply to: gotab |
282 | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Originally posted by gotab Originally posted by Chillin The other warning about wearing headphones during a race is that you'll miss out on a lot of the race excitement. You won't be able to listen to bands, hear people cheering, or talk to other runners. This is the main reason I like wearing them. I hate talking to other runners. Also, I really don't want to hear some frat boy spectator yelling at me to "put on a shirt fattie*!" But like I said, if they were banned (not discouraged, BANNED, as they are in triathlons, then I would not wear them). *Yes, happened to me.* LOL, well more the cheering and overall race excitement then socializing with other runners. I don't understand when I run past other racers who are having a conversation. Aren't we racing here? WTF? I've never seen spectators be anything but encouraging (Maybe because us Canadians are all so polite ). I hope he was told off by the other spectators. |
2013-08-19 4:31 PM in reply to: Chillin |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Cheaters at local race Originally posted by Chillin Originally posted by gotab Originally posted by Chillin The other warning about wearing headphones during a race is that you'll miss out on a lot of the race excitement. You won't be able to listen to bands, hear people cheering, or talk to other runners. This is the main reason I like wearing them. I hate talking to other runners. Also, I really don't want to hear some frat boy spectator yelling at me to "put on a shirt fattie*!" But like I said, if they were banned (not discouraged, BANNED, as they are in triathlons, then I would not wear them). *Yes, happened to me.* LOL, well more the cheering and overall race excitement then socializing with other runners. I don't understand when I run past other racers who are having a conversation. Aren't we racing here? WTF? I've never seen spectators be anything but encouraging (Maybe because us Canadians are all so polite ). I hope he was told off by the other spectators. If you don't talk to people on the course how will they know how many marathons you've done, that this is `just training for an ironman,' that you would be way faster if not for that stupid football injury from your college days, or that after this you're going to go dancing until 4am because running a marathon doesn't really wear you out anymore? HOW WOULD THEY KNOW!? |
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