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Went all out on 100m this morning (Page 2)
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 2014-09-25 3:45 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran  5722   |  Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morningOriginally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Left Brain You can go here to see how it breaks down for a large AG race.....this is AG Sprint Nationals from this year. Top 10 swims (out of ~1700) were all 1:08-1:10/ 100Y. 1:21/100Y was 176, so you're right at top 10% if you adjust to meters. http://www.pigmantri.com/jmsracing/results14/usatage14f.pdf Thanks. That definitely reinforces my plan to go to 3 swims/week. So far I've been doing one day a week of workouts (intervals, etc) totalling around 2,700 meters and one day of a 1,500 meter straight swim. That's been it for the past three months since I started. I've been so remedial in biking that I've spent all my time there (the fastest I've went on bike so far was a 21.7 mph average for 12 miles and that was an outlier...I'm normally around 20-21 when pushing hard). But I think I see the need to spend more time on the swim. Now keep this in mind Use this http://bikecalculator.com/veloUS.html Use the defaults, in the drops, to do 21,7mph on an Oly requires 210watts and gives you a time of 1:06:35. A normal bike focus, done properly can easily raise your FTP by 30 watts. Easily. Especially if you are starting low. Now that 240watt FTP gives 22.83 mph and 1:03:09 minutes So you are 3.5 minutes faster on an Oly What is easier to achieve ? 3.5 minutes on the bike or on the swim ? That's 14s/100m on an Oly swim Don't believe me ? Ask a ex-fish like Axteraa (Arend). Ask the people that did the power mentor group if 30 watts is reasonable I am far from a fish and I would benefit from more swimming, hands down, but most ex fishies turned triathletes with a weaker bike, get a lot more out of a bike focus Edited by marcag 2014-09-25 4:02 PM |
| 2014-09-25 4:01 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar Now keep this in mind Use this http://bikecalculator.com/veloUS.htmlUse the defaults, in the drops, to do 21,7mph on an Oly requires 210watts and gives you a time of 1:06:35. A normal bike focus, done properly can easily raise your FTP by 30 watts. Easily. Especially if you are starting low. Now that 240watt FTP gives 22.83 mph and 1:03:09 minutes So you are 3.5 minutes faster on an Oly What is easier to achieve ? 3.5 minutes on the bike or on the swim ? That's 14s/100m on an Oly swim Don't believe me ? Ask a ex-fish like Axterra (Arend). Ask the people that did the power mentor group if 30 watts is reasonable I am far from a fish and I would benefit from more swimming, hands down, but most ex fishies turned triathletes with a weaker bike, get a lot more out of a bike focus Originally posted by Left Brain Thanks. That definitely reinforces my plan to go to 3 swims/week. So far I've been doing one day a week of workouts (intervals, etc) totalling around 2,700 meters and one day of a 1,500 meter straight swim. That's been it for the past three months since I started. I've been so remedial in biking that I've spent all my time there (the fastest I've went on bike so far was a 21.7 mph average for 12 miles and that was an outlier...I'm normally around 20-21 when pushing hard). But I think I see the need to spend more time on the swim. You can go here to see how it breaks down for a large AG race.....this is AG Sprint Nationals from this year. Top 10 swims (out of ~1700) were all 1:08-1:10/ 100Y. 1:21/100Y was 176, so you're right at top 10% if you adjust to meters. Agreed....comparatively his bike is so weak that's a no brainer. But 3 swims a week is not much swimming and he's still dropping time like a rock......might as well squeeze the rest of it out. It's not going to be hard for a guy who swims like he does and runs 7:30 miles to get his bike up another 30 watts....basic work there, nothing special. I've got a Cavendish CD he can do 3 time per week for 50 minutes each over the winter and get that done......piece of cake. No power meter needed.
Edited by Left Brain 2014-09-25 4:10 PM |
| 2014-09-25 6:19 PM in reply to: 0 |
1502  Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar Now keep this in mind Use this http://bikecalculator.com/veloUS.htmlUse the defaults, in the drops, to do 21,7mph on an Oly requires 210watts and gives you a time of 1:06:35. A normal bike focus, done properly can easily raise your FTP by 30 watts. Easily. Especially if you are starting low. Now that 240watt FTP gives 22.83 mph and 1:03:09 minutes So you are 3.5 minutes faster on an Oly What is easier to achieve ? 3.5 minutes on the bike or on the swim ? That's 14s/100m on an Oly swim Don't believe me ? Ask a ex-fish like Axterra (Arend). Ask the people that did the power mentor group if 30 watts is reasonable I am far from a fish and I would benefit from more swimming, hands down, but most ex fishies turned triathletes with a weaker bike, get a lot more out of a bike focus Originally posted by Left Brain Thanks. That definitely reinforces my plan to go to 3 swims/week. So far I've been doing one day a week of workouts (intervals, etc) totalling around 2,700 meters and one day of a 1,500 meter straight swim. That's been it for the past three months since I started. I've been so remedial in biking that I've spent all my time there (the fastest I've went on bike so far was a 21.7 mph average for 12 miles and that was an outlier...I'm normally around 20-21 when pushing hard). But I think I see the need to spend more time on the swim. You can go here to see how it breaks down for a large AG race.....this is AG Sprint Nationals from this year. Top 10 swims (out of ~1700) were all 1:08-1:10/ 100Y. 1:21/100Y was 176, so you're right at top 10% if you adjust to meters. Agreed....comparatively his bike is so weak that's a no brainer. But 3 swims a week is not much swimming and he's still dropping time like a rock......might as well squeeze the rest of it out. It's not going to be hard for a guy who swims like he does and runs 7:30 miles to get his bike up another 30 watts....basic work there, nothing special. I've got a Cavendish CD he can do 3 time per week for 50 minutes each over the winter and get that done......piece of cake. No power meter needed.
Man, I hope it's that easy of a fix, cause you know I've been getting frustrated on the bike. I've got an oly this weekend so I think that should tell me something. Edited by 3mar 2014-09-25 6:20 PM |
| 2014-09-25 6:31 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar Now keep this in mind Use this http://bikecalculator.com/veloUS.htmlUse the defaults, in the drops, to do 21,7mph on an Oly requires 210watts and gives you a time of 1:06:35. A normal bike focus, done properly can easily raise your FTP by 30 watts. Easily. Especially if you are starting low. Now that 240watt FTP gives 22.83 mph and 1:03:09 minutes So you are 3.5 minutes faster on an Oly What is easier to achieve ? 3.5 minutes on the bike or on the swim ? That's 14s/100m on an Oly swim Don't believe me ? Ask a ex-fish like Axterra (Arend). Ask the people that did the power mentor group if 30 watts is reasonable I am far from a fish and I would benefit from more swimming, hands down, but most ex fishies turned triathletes with a weaker bike, get a lot more out of a bike focus Originally posted by Left Brain Thanks. That definitely reinforces my plan to go to 3 swims/week. So far I've been doing one day a week of workouts (intervals, etc) totalling around 2,700 meters and one day of a 1,500 meter straight swim. That's been it for the past three months since I started. I've been so remedial in biking that I've spent all my time there (the fastest I've went on bike so far was a 21.7 mph average for 12 miles and that was an outlier...I'm normally around 20-21 when pushing hard). But I think I see the need to spend more time on the swim. You can go here to see how it breaks down for a large AG race.....this is AG Sprint Nationals from this year. Top 10 swims (out of ~1700) were all 1:08-1:10/ 100Y. 1:21/100Y was 176, so you're right at top 10% if you adjust to meters. Agreed....comparatively his bike is so weak that's a no brainer. But 3 swims a week is not much swimming and he's still dropping time like a rock......might as well squeeze the rest of it out. It's not going to be hard for a guy who swims like he does and runs 7:30 miles to get his bike up another 30 watts....basic work there, nothing special. I've got a Cavendish CD he can do 3 time per week for 50 minutes each over the winter and get that done......piece of cake. No power meter needed.
Man, I hope it's that easy of a fix, cause you know I've been getting frustrated on the bike. I've got an oly this weekend so I think that should tell me something. It's not quite as easy as LB is saying, but certainly easier than knocking 14s/100 in the pool :-) The guys that raised their FTP by 30 watts worked pretty darn hard. |
| 2014-09-25 6:58 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Left Brain Man, I hope it's that easy of a fix, cause you know I've been getting frustrated on the bike. I've got an oly this weekend so I think that should tell me something. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar Now keep this in mind Use this http://bikecalculator.com/veloUS.htmlUse the defaults, in the drops, to do 21,7mph on an Oly requires 210watts and gives you a time of 1:06:35. A normal bike focus, done properly can easily raise your FTP by 30 watts. Easily. Especially if you are starting low. Now that 240watt FTP gives 22.83 mph and 1:03:09 minutes So you are 3.5 minutes faster on an Oly What is easier to achieve ? 3.5 minutes on the bike or on the swim ? That's 14s/100m on an Oly swim Don't believe me ? Ask a ex-fish like Axterra (Arend). Ask the people that did the power mentor group if 30 watts is reasonable I am far from a fish and I would benefit from more swimming, hands down, but most ex fishies turned triathletes with a weaker bike, get a lot more out of a bike focus Originally posted by Left Brain Thanks. That definitely reinforces my plan to go to 3 swims/week. So far I've been doing one day a week of workouts (intervals, etc) totalling around 2,700 meters and one day of a 1,500 meter straight swim. That's been it for the past three months since I started. I've been so remedial in biking that I've spent all my time there (the fastest I've went on bike so far was a 21.7 mph average for 12 miles and that was an outlier...I'm normally around 20-21 when pushing hard). But I think I see the need to spend more time on the swim. You can go here to see how it breaks down for a large AG race.....this is AG Sprint Nationals from this year. Top 10 swims (out of ~1700) were all 1:08-1:10/ 100Y. 1:21/100Y was 176, so you're right at top 10% if you adjust to meters. Agreed....comparatively his bike is so weak that's a no brainer. But 3 swims a week is not much swimming and he's still dropping time like a rock......might as well squeeze the rest of it out. It's not going to be hard for a guy who swims like he does and runs 7:30 miles to get his bike up another 30 watts....basic work there, nothing special. I've got a Cavendish CD he can do 3 time per week for 50 minutes each over the winter and get that done......piece of cake. No power meter needed.
There's a BIG reason that USAT athlete development wants to know what your benchmarks are in the swim and the run and rarely ask about the bike. If you've got the engine to swim and run well, the bike is relatively easy to get up to speed. It'll take a bit of work, but it's the easiest of the three to get competitive with.....you'll see. Why do you think most people who do triathlon spend so much time with the bike? It's easy and fun. Swimming and running fast is not. Edited by Left Brain 2014-09-25 7:02 PM |
| 2014-09-25 7:31 PM in reply to: 3mar |
| 1660 | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by yazmaster I haven't come across anyone faster than me in the pool yet, but that's because; A I swim with a lot of older guys (although some in really good shape) and B I've only been at it about 3 months. The only time I've swam outside of my pool here in town was while away on business and I swam with another masters group, but there wasn't anyone there faster either. You'll be in the front third or even front 20-25%, most likely in a typical triathlon. When you're at your pool or local masters, how many other swimmers are typically swimming faster than you?
1:06/100m with like 3monts of swim training is like ridiculous! If you're really just started swimming, you're a natural fish. |
| 2014-09-25 7:54 PM in reply to: marcag |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar It's not quite as easy as LB is saying, but certainly easier than knocking 14s/100 in the pool :-) The guys that raised their FTP by 30 watts worked pretty darn hard. Originally posted by Left Brain Man, I hope it's that easy of a fix, cause you know I've been getting frustrated on the bike. I've got an oly this weekend so I think that should tell me something. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar Now keep this in mind Use this http://bikecalculator.com/veloUS.htmlUse the defaults, in the drops, to do 21,7mph on an Oly requires 210watts and gives you a time of 1:06:35. A normal bike focus, done properly can easily raise your FTP by 30 watts. Easily. Especially if you are starting low. Now that 240watt FTP gives 22.83 mph and 1:03:09 minutes So you are 3.5 minutes faster on an Oly What is easier to achieve ? 3.5 minutes on the bike or on the swim ? That's 14s/100m on an Oly swim Don't believe me ? Ask a ex-fish like Axterra (Arend). Ask the people that did the power mentor group if 30 watts is reasonable I am far from a fish and I would benefit from more swimming, hands down, but most ex fishies turned triathletes with a weaker bike, get a lot more out of a bike focus Originally posted by Left Brain Thanks. That definitely reinforces my plan to go to 3 swims/week. So far I've been doing one day a week of workouts (intervals, etc) totalling around 2,700 meters and one day of a 1,500 meter straight swim. That's been it for the past three months since I started. I've been so remedial in biking that I've spent all my time there (the fastest I've went on bike so far was a 21.7 mph average for 12 miles and that was an outlier...I'm normally around 20-21 when pushing hard). But I think I see the need to spend more time on the swim. You can go here to see how it breaks down for a large AG race.....this is AG Sprint Nationals from this year. Top 10 swims (out of ~1700) were all 1:08-1:10/ 100Y. 1:21/100Y was 176, so you're right at top 10% if you adjust to meters. Agreed....comparatively his bike is so weak that's a no brainer. But 3 swims a week is not much swimming and he's still dropping time like a rock......might as well squeeze the rest of it out. It's not going to be hard for a guy who swims like he does and runs 7:30 miles to get his bike up another 30 watts....basic work there, nothing special. I've got a Cavendish CD he can do 3 time per week for 50 minutes each over the winter and get that done......piece of cake. No power meter needed.
It does tend to be kind of easy for former swimmers to get fast on the bike, because they know how to suffer. It takes real mental toughness to stare at that black line for hours a day months on end. It's another of the reasons that former swimmers will almost always hurt themselves running if left on their own - they think it needs to hurt all the time, and they run straight through it no matter how bad it hurts. The runners are going to cry about this, but the opposite is one of the reasons it can be a challenge for runners to get fast in the pool and occasionally on the bike - they don't know how to suffer the same way that swimmers do.
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| 2014-09-25 7:57 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Left Brain Man, I hope it's that easy of a fix, cause you know I've been getting frustrated on the bike. I've got an oly this weekend so I think that should tell me something. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar Now keep this in mind Use this http://bikecalculator.com/veloUS.htmlUse the defaults, in the drops, to do 21,7mph on an Oly requires 210watts and gives you a time of 1:06:35. A normal bike focus, done properly can easily raise your FTP by 30 watts. Easily. Especially if you are starting low. Now that 240watt FTP gives 22.83 mph and 1:03:09 minutes So you are 3.5 minutes faster on an Oly What is easier to achieve ? 3.5 minutes on the bike or on the swim ? That's 14s/100m on an Oly swim Don't believe me ? Ask a ex-fish like Axterra (Arend). Ask the people that did the power mentor group if 30 watts is reasonable I am far from a fish and I would benefit from more swimming, hands down, but most ex fishies turned triathletes with a weaker bike, get a lot more out of a bike focus Originally posted by Left Brain Thanks. That definitely reinforces my plan to go to 3 swims/week. So far I've been doing one day a week of workouts (intervals, etc) totalling around 2,700 meters and one day of a 1,500 meter straight swim. That's been it for the past three months since I started. I've been so remedial in biking that I've spent all my time there (the fastest I've went on bike so far was a 21.7 mph average for 12 miles and that was an outlier...I'm normally around 20-21 when pushing hard). But I think I see the need to spend more time on the swim. You can go here to see how it breaks down for a large AG race.....this is AG Sprint Nationals from this year. Top 10 swims (out of ~1700) were all 1:08-1:10/ 100Y. 1:21/100Y was 176, so you're right at top 10% if you adjust to meters. Agreed....comparatively his bike is so weak that's a no brainer. But 3 swims a week is not much swimming and he's still dropping time like a rock......might as well squeeze the rest of it out. It's not going to be hard for a guy who swims like he does and runs 7:30 miles to get his bike up another 30 watts....basic work there, nothing special. I've got a Cavendish CD he can do 3 time per week for 50 minutes each over the winter and get that done......piece of cake. No power meter needed.
There's a BIG reason that USAT athlete development wants to know what your benchmarks are in the swim and the run and rarely ask about the bike. If you've got the engine to swim and run well, the bike is relatively easy to get up to speed. It'll take a bit of work, but it's the easiest of the three to get competitive with.....you'll see. Why do you think most people who do triathlon spend so much time with the bike? It's easy and fun. Swimming and running fast is not. It's certainly more simple than the others, but the work sure as heck ain't easy! |
| 2014-09-25 7:57 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Originally posted by TriMyBest Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar It's not quite as easy as LB is saying, but certainly easier than knocking 14s/100 in the pool :-) The guys that raised their FTP by 30 watts worked pretty darn hard. Originally posted by Left Brain Man, I hope it's that easy of a fix, cause you know I've been getting frustrated on the bike. I've got an oly this weekend so I think that should tell me something. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar Now keep this in mind Use this http://bikecalculator.com/veloUS.htmlUse the defaults, in the drops, to do 21,7mph on an Oly requires 210watts and gives you a time of 1:06:35. A normal bike focus, done properly can easily raise your FTP by 30 watts. Easily. Especially if you are starting low. Now that 240watt FTP gives 22.83 mph and 1:03:09 minutes So you are 3.5 minutes faster on an Oly What is easier to achieve ? 3.5 minutes on the bike or on the swim ? That's 14s/100m on an Oly swim Don't believe me ? Ask a ex-fish like Axterra (Arend). Ask the people that did the power mentor group if 30 watts is reasonable I am far from a fish and I would benefit from more swimming, hands down, but most ex fishies turned triathletes with a weaker bike, get a lot more out of a bike focus Originally posted by Left Brain Thanks. That definitely reinforces my plan to go to 3 swims/week. So far I've been doing one day a week of workouts (intervals, etc) totalling around 2,700 meters and one day of a 1,500 meter straight swim. That's been it for the past three months since I started. I've been so remedial in biking that I've spent all my time there (the fastest I've went on bike so far was a 21.7 mph average for 12 miles and that was an outlier...I'm normally around 20-21 when pushing hard). But I think I see the need to spend more time on the swim. You can go here to see how it breaks down for a large AG race.....this is AG Sprint Nationals from this year. Top 10 swims (out of ~1700) were all 1:08-1:10/ 100Y. 1:21/100Y was 176, so you're right at top 10% if you adjust to meters. Agreed....comparatively his bike is so weak that's a no brainer. But 3 swims a week is not much swimming and he's still dropping time like a rock......might as well squeeze the rest of it out. It's not going to be hard for a guy who swims like he does and runs 7:30 miles to get his bike up another 30 watts....basic work there, nothing special. I've got a Cavendish CD he can do 3 time per week for 50 minutes each over the winter and get that done......piece of cake. No power meter needed.
It does tend to be kind of easy for former swimmers to get fast on the bike, because they know how to suffer. It takes real mental toughness to stare at that black line for hours a day months on end. It's another of the reasons that former swimmers will almost always hurt themselves running if left on their own - they think it needs to hurt all the time, and they run straight through it no matter how bad it hurts. The runners are going to cry about this, but the opposite is one of the reasons it can be a challenge for runners to get fast in the pool and occasionally on the bike - they don't know how to suffer the same way that swimmers do.
BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!! Stone him!!!!! Edited by Left Brain 2014-09-25 7:58 PM |
| 2014-09-25 7:59 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Left Brain Man, I hope it's that easy of a fix, cause you know I've been getting frustrated on the bike. I've got an oly this weekend so I think that should tell me something. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar Now keep this in mind Use this http://bikecalculator.com/veloUS.htmlUse the defaults, in the drops, to do 21,7mph on an Oly requires 210watts and gives you a time of 1:06:35. A normal bike focus, done properly can easily raise your FTP by 30 watts. Easily. Especially if you are starting low. Now that 240watt FTP gives 22.83 mph and 1:03:09 minutes So you are 3.5 minutes faster on an Oly What is easier to achieve ? 3.5 minutes on the bike or on the swim ? That's 14s/100m on an Oly swim Don't believe me ? Ask a ex-fish like Axterra (Arend). Ask the people that did the power mentor group if 30 watts is reasonable I am far from a fish and I would benefit from more swimming, hands down, but most ex fishies turned triathletes with a weaker bike, get a lot more out of a bike focus Originally posted by Left Brain Thanks. That definitely reinforces my plan to go to 3 swims/week. So far I've been doing one day a week of workouts (intervals, etc) totalling around 2,700 meters and one day of a 1,500 meter straight swim. That's been it for the past three months since I started. I've been so remedial in biking that I've spent all my time there (the fastest I've went on bike so far was a 21.7 mph average for 12 miles and that was an outlier...I'm normally around 20-21 when pushing hard). But I think I see the need to spend more time on the swim. You can go here to see how it breaks down for a large AG race.....this is AG Sprint Nationals from this year. Top 10 swims (out of ~1700) were all 1:08-1:10/ 100Y. 1:21/100Y was 176, so you're right at top 10% if you adjust to meters. Agreed....comparatively his bike is so weak that's a no brainer. But 3 swims a week is not much swimming and he's still dropping time like a rock......might as well squeeze the rest of it out. It's not going to be hard for a guy who swims like he does and runs 7:30 miles to get his bike up another 30 watts....basic work there, nothing special. I've got a Cavendish CD he can do 3 time per week for 50 minutes each over the winter and get that done......piece of cake. No power meter needed.
There's a BIG reason that USAT athlete development wants to know what your benchmarks are in the swim and the run and rarely ask about the bike. If you've got the engine to swim and run well, the bike is relatively easy to get up to speed. It'll take a bit of work, but it's the easiest of the three to get competitive with.....you'll see. Why do you think most people who do triathlon spend so much time with the bike? It's easy and fun. Swimming and running fast is not. It's certainly more simple than the others, but the work sure as heck ain't easy!
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| 2014-09-25 8:01 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by TriMyBest Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar It's not quite as easy as LB is saying, but certainly easier than knocking 14s/100 in the pool :-) The guys that raised their FTP by 30 watts worked pretty darn hard. Originally posted by Left Brain Man, I hope it's that easy of a fix, cause you know I've been getting frustrated on the bike. I've got an oly this weekend so I think that should tell me something. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar Now keep this in mind Use this http://bikecalculator.com/veloUS.htmlUse the defaults, in the drops, to do 21,7mph on an Oly requires 210watts and gives you a time of 1:06:35. A normal bike focus, done properly can easily raise your FTP by 30 watts. Easily. Especially if you are starting low. Now that 240watt FTP gives 22.83 mph and 1:03:09 minutes So you are 3.5 minutes faster on an Oly What is easier to achieve ? 3.5 minutes on the bike or on the swim ? That's 14s/100m on an Oly swim Don't believe me ? Ask a ex-fish like Axterra (Arend). Ask the people that did the power mentor group if 30 watts is reasonable I am far from a fish and I would benefit from more swimming, hands down, but most ex fishies turned triathletes with a weaker bike, get a lot more out of a bike focus Originally posted by Left Brain Thanks. That definitely reinforces my plan to go to 3 swims/week. So far I've been doing one day a week of workouts (intervals, etc) totalling around 2,700 meters and one day of a 1,500 meter straight swim. That's been it for the past three months since I started. I've been so remedial in biking that I've spent all my time there (the fastest I've went on bike so far was a 21.7 mph average for 12 miles and that was an outlier...I'm normally around 20-21 when pushing hard). But I think I see the need to spend more time on the swim. You can go here to see how it breaks down for a large AG race.....this is AG Sprint Nationals from this year. Top 10 swims (out of ~1700) were all 1:08-1:10/ 100Y. 1:21/100Y was 176, so you're right at top 10% if you adjust to meters. Agreed....comparatively his bike is so weak that's a no brainer. But 3 swims a week is not much swimming and he's still dropping time like a rock......might as well squeeze the rest of it out. It's not going to be hard for a guy who swims like he does and runs 7:30 miles to get his bike up another 30 watts....basic work there, nothing special. I've got a Cavendish CD he can do 3 time per week for 50 minutes each over the winter and get that done......piece of cake. No power meter needed.
It does tend to be kind of easy for former swimmers to get fast on the bike, because they know how to suffer. It takes real mental toughness to stare at that black line for hours a day months on end. It's another of the reasons that former swimmers will almost always hurt themselves running if left on their own - they think it needs to hurt all the time, and they run straight through it no matter how bad it hurts. The runners are going to cry about this, but the opposite is one of the reasons it can be a challenge for runners to get fast in the pool and occasionally on the bike - they don't know how to suffer the same way that swimmers do.
BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!! Stone him!!!!!
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| 2014-09-25 8:05 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Left Brain Man, I hope it's that easy of a fix, cause you know I've been getting frustrated on the bike. I've got an oly this weekend so I think that should tell me something. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar Now keep this in mind Use this http://bikecalculator.com/veloUS.htmlUse the defaults, in the drops, to do 21,7mph on an Oly requires 210watts and gives you a time of 1:06:35. A normal bike focus, done properly can easily raise your FTP by 30 watts. Easily. Especially if you are starting low. Now that 240watt FTP gives 22.83 mph and 1:03:09 minutes So you are 3.5 minutes faster on an Oly What is easier to achieve ? 3.5 minutes on the bike or on the swim ? That's 14s/100m on an Oly swim Don't believe me ? Ask a ex-fish like Axterra (Arend). Ask the people that did the power mentor group if 30 watts is reasonable I am far from a fish and I would benefit from more swimming, hands down, but most ex fishies turned triathletes with a weaker bike, get a lot more out of a bike focus Originally posted by Left Brain Thanks. That definitely reinforces my plan to go to 3 swims/week. So far I've been doing one day a week of workouts (intervals, etc) totalling around 2,700 meters and one day of a 1,500 meter straight swim. That's been it for the past three months since I started. I've been so remedial in biking that I've spent all my time there (the fastest I've went on bike so far was a 21.7 mph average for 12 miles and that was an outlier...I'm normally around 20-21 when pushing hard). But I think I see the need to spend more time on the swim. You can go here to see how it breaks down for a large AG race.....this is AG Sprint Nationals from this year. Top 10 swims (out of ~1700) were all 1:08-1:10/ 100Y. 1:21/100Y was 176, so you're right at top 10% if you adjust to meters. Agreed....comparatively his bike is so weak that's a no brainer. But 3 swims a week is not much swimming and he's still dropping time like a rock......might as well squeeze the rest of it out. It's not going to be hard for a guy who swims like he does and runs 7:30 miles to get his bike up another 30 watts....basic work there, nothing special. I've got a Cavendish CD he can do 3 time per week for 50 minutes each over the winter and get that done......piece of cake. No power meter needed.
There's a BIG reason that USAT athlete development wants to know what your benchmarks are in the swim and the run and rarely ask about the bike. If you've got the engine to swim and run well, the bike is relatively easy to get up to speed. It'll take a bit of work, but it's the easiest of the three to get competitive with.....you'll see. Why do you think most people who do triathlon spend so much time with the bike? It's easy and fun. Swimming and running fast is not. It's certainly more simple than the others, but the work sure as heck ain't easy! Yeah, actually, for a guy who can swim and run fast, it is. Give me a guy who has never been on a bike who can swim and run fast and I'll return you a guy who can bike fast enough to be competitive......without a power meter. Like TMB said......they just know how to get it done. People who train fast triathletes know this. Jr. won't even touch his bike in the off season......no reason to. It's all swim and run. (he rides his MTB for fun and handling) He'll still put up some of the fastest bike splits in AG and stay competitive in DL. You bike guys have it SO backwards. Edited by Left Brain 2014-09-25 8:09 PM |
| 2014-09-25 9:55 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning That's why I said simple. They know very well how to work hard and get it done. Hard work is not easy by definition. Is it less difficult for them? Sure, as they already have some tools to help with it. Anyway, the statement was more for the OP's benefit. I know better than to try changing your mind on something. Fyi, I don't actually have it backwards as I know what brings the most enjoyment for me. |
| 2014-09-25 10:05 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
| 1300 | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Originally posted by TriMyBest Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Left Brain I like your logic! Explains my running injuries the last two years much better then my friends theories of you're a jackarse [ It's another of the reasons that former swimmers will almost always hurt themselves running if left on their own - they think it needs to hurt all the time, and they run straight through it no matter how bad it hurts.
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| 2014-09-25 10:06 PM in reply to: brigby1 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Originally posted by brigby1 That's why I said simple. They know very well how to work hard and get it done. Hard work is not easy by definition. Is it less difficult for them? Sure, as they already have some tools to help with it. Anyway, the statement was more for the OP's benefit. I know better than to try changing your mind on something. Fyi, I don't actually have it backwards as I know what brings the most enjoyment for me. LOL - you can change my mind.....but not on something I watch year after year and get to discuss with some top coaches. I know why some people want to try to sell a winter program that really won't make you a better racer next year, but it doesn't have anything to do with being as fast as you can be at triathlon. And yeah, by all means, do what makes you happiest....I agree 100%. Just don't try to wrap it up in pretty paper and call it the best way to being fast in a triathlon. (I know YOU didn't do that) . |
| 2014-09-25 10:08 PM in reply to: Goggles Pizzano |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano Originally posted by TriMyBest Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Left Brain I like your logic! Explains my running injuries the last two years much better then my friends theories of you're a jackarse [ It's another of the reasons that former swimmers will almost always hurt themselves running if left on their own - they think it needs to hurt all the time, and they run straight through it no matter how bad it hurts.
That's the most jacked up quote in the history of quotes......how'd you even do that?? |
| 2014-09-25 10:09 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning HAHAHAHA! what the hell? |
| 2014-09-26 12:01 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Decent by masters swimming standards, but not a standout performance. For perspective I was 8th (35/-39)in the 100 Fly at FINA worlds with 1.00.9?long course. |
| 2014-09-26 4:47 AM in reply to: simpsonbo |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Originally posted by simpsonbo Decent by masters swimming standards, but not a standout performance. For perspective I was 8th (35/-39)in the 100 Fly at FINA worlds with 1.00.9?long course. Well give me a minute or two...I've been in the pool around 25 times since I started.  |
| 2014-09-26 4:54 AM in reply to: 3mar |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Regarding LB and Trimybest's comments, I do find that I push too hard every workout and that is something that I've been dealing with. I hear a lot of people one here, and in general, say you need to have a lot of your workouts at a lower effort level and only a few focused hard sessions but to hell if I have the self control for that. And what's weird is, even though I stink it up on the bike, I like it the most for some reason so I don't mind putting in the miles. |
| 2014-09-26 4:56 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by simpsonbo Decent by masters swimming standards, but not a standout performance. For perspective I was 8th (35/-39)in the 100 Fly at FINA worlds with 1.00.9?long course. Well give me a minute or two...I've been in the pool around 25 times since I started. Bo standards are a little higher than we are all used to :-) Here are FINA standards to qualify for worlds http://www.fina.org/H2O/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&i... Men, 35 is 1:06 long course. 99% of the people at that meet swam as kids. Edited by marcag 2014-09-26 4:57 AM |
| 2014-09-26 7:04 AM in reply to: 3mar |
| 631 | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by simpsonbo Decent by masters swimming standards, but not a standout performance. For perspective I was 8th (35/-39)in the 100 Fly at FINA worlds with 1.00.9?long course. Well give me a minute or two...I've been in the pool around 25 times since I started. You swam up through high school? You still have a lot of that muscle memory from then. You understand swimming workouts and you are already working with a coach. I don't think I would put you in the same category as some of the posters here who have never done a lap. I would not say that you just started, I would say you just returned to the pool. |
| 2014-09-26 7:25 AM in reply to: Sidney Porter |
| 489 | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning “Returned to the pool” is a good way of putting it – I’ve been frustrated that my progress in running and cycling has taken a while but I was back swimming at 1:15 p/100 pace for 4k within a few months of consistent swimming. I can break a minute for a 100 (in the recently opened to the public Olympic Pool in London – LOVE.IT) yet I’ve only just broken 1:45 for a HM and six hours for an IM bike leg after much more time investment. I hadn't swum for 15 yeas when I took up tri. Muscle memory and perhaps more importantly, knowing how to suffer in a pool are huge advantages over those converted runners. It is however horrible to get out of the water in the top 10% and have 60% of the field overtake you during the course of the next 11 hours! I’m jealous of those runners getting to hunt people down all day. |
| 2014-09-26 7:44 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
| 1300 | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning I have no idea! |
| 2014-09-26 8:14 AM in reply to: Dan-L |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Went all out on 100m this morning Originally posted by Dan-L “Returned to the pool” is a good way of putting it – I’ve been frustrated that my progress in running and cycling has taken a while but I was back swimming at 1:15 p/100 pace for 4k within a few months of consistent swimming. I can break a minute for a 100 (in the recently opened to the public Olympic Pool in London – LOVE.IT) yet I’ve only just broken 1:45 for a HM and six hours for an IM bike leg after much more time investment. I hadn't swum for 15 yeas when I took up tri. Muscle memory and perhaps more importantly, knowing how to suffer in a pool are huge advantages over those converted runners. It is however horrible to get out of the water in the top 10% and have 60% of the field overtake you during the course of the next 11 hours! I’m jealous of those runners getting to hunt people down all day. I can agree with that from similar experience. It took me 5 years of dedicated running to get sub-20 on my 5k and 1:35 on my HM time. That was a total grind. It does seem a bit crazy though that 4 years of swimming (only one of which I put up any decent times) would come back so quick after almost 20 years (that makes me feel really old). Even after 5 years, I had to put in a ton of very focused work to hit each of those PRs in running. It's nice to have one sport com easy at least. I'd also say that if I go for it and I don't see sub-1:00 100m by the end of this winter, I'd be a bit disappointed. I could never try something like that in biking or running. I really hope that it doesn't take me 5 years to put up decent bike times.One nice thing is that I can train here year round, so that should give me a bit of advantage. Actually, our season down here is just starting. |
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