login
Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs
-
No new posts
|
 2015-07-13 9:43 AM |
 439   nashville, Tennessee |  Subject: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rsI'm curious what everyone thinks about the prevalence of PED's among lets say the top 5% of Age groupers. Throw out a percentage. I don't ever hear about in any cases personally which kinda surprises me. I used to lift weights years ago before I started tris and there were LOTS of guys juicing that I knew, myself included. I sometimes wonder how common it could be in tris. Part of me thinks why would anybody go to that extreme for just amateur racing that they receive no real reward for. But then I think if so many guys use it at the gym for just vanity sake, why wouldn't they be using it to win races. But I just find it strange that I never hear about anyone using and I never hear about any certain substance that may be going around. What are your thoughts? |
| 2015-07-13 10:12 AM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Extreme Veteran 1190 Silicon Valley | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs It isn't something I hear much about but knowing the competitive nature of many people, I would not be at all surprised. I just don't get the point. It's the same way with cheating in any form. I have seen people cut a run course. Who are they kidding other than themselves. If they want to beat me that bad that they are willing to cheat, go for it. I compete to see how much I can get out of my body, by my efforts. I measure success against myself. Sorry I don't have an estimate for you. But as the great John Wooden once said "“The true test of a man’s character is what he does when no one is watching.” |
| 2015-07-13 10:19 AM in reply to: Stuartap |
| 439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Yeah I guess I can see if youre really competitive and you just really want to beat some people then you'll go to those extremes. But for me personally, the only reason I do it is to see how much I can improve with what I have. Using PED's would totally throw it all out the window because I would never know what I am capable of. |
| 2015-07-13 10:50 AM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs There was a survey a couple years ago after an IM, asking who was using PED's. I don't remember all the specifics, however a large number of age groupers admitted to using PED's in that blind survey. |
| 2015-07-13 10:55 AM in reply to: mike761 |
| 439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Very interesting. |
| 2015-07-13 10:59 AM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Champion 7036  Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Personally I've never seen any evidence of it in the AG ranks at the races I've done over the past ten years. Not saying it might not be there, but I've never seen anything that raised my suspicions. Mark |
| 2015-07-13 11:04 AM in reply to: RedCorvette |
| Member 763 | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by RedCorvette Personally I've never seen any evidence of it in the AG ranks at the races I've done over the past ten years. Not saying it might not be there, but I've never seen anything that raised my suspicions. Mark I second this, but that said, anybody who stands between me and the podium is obviously juiced!! lol |
| 2015-07-13 11:04 AM in reply to: #5128374 |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs http://www.irishtriathlon.com/index.php/2014/01/ironman-triathlon-d... If 1 in 7 admit it (even anonymously) my guess is the true number is more like 1 in 5. My guess is the percentage goes up the closer to the top of the AG. I'd WAG that 1/3 of the top 20 in the M30-54 AG's are cheating with PEDS. |
| 2015-07-13 11:13 AM in reply to: LarchmontTri |
| 439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by RedCorvette Personally I've never seen any evidence of it in the AG ranks at the races I've done over the past ten years. Not saying it might not be there, but I've never seen anything that raised my suspicions. Mark I second this, but that said, anybody who stands between me and the podium is obviously juiced!! lol Haha!! Exactly! |
| 2015-07-13 11:15 AM in reply to: mike761 |
| 701 | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Interesting. I wouldn't think that it'd be all that high. For 95% of us AGers, we're in it because "we can", or "it's fun" or "it's all about the challenge" and the idea of beating anybody but yourself is really an insignificant thing. The survey itself, I think would be hard to get good data from. If you obtained data by soliciting responses from websites/forums....you're really only getting a small portion of folks. And even if you account for a site like this that's far more welcoming to a wider range of participants than others, you're still getting only people who "go online". And on top of that, even here, many of you are far deeper into it and far greater competitors than most of us AGers who simply don't care where we finish beyond "hey, I stacked up pretty well or better this time, against my AG". I suppose you could configure it so you could get blind responses at athlete check-ins for a variety of races. Then again, the weekend warrior types and those like me who have maybe graduated a bit beyond that would be like "hey, I'm just here to challenge myself and finish, I'm not a competitor, I don't want to skew their data or anything. I'll leave that to the real athletes." and simply skip out on it. I'd think you'd almost have to call people that have yearly or those who have paid for a one-day USAT license and do it over the phone. Then again, I don't know what PEDs are beyond the obvious suspects. I'm imagining there's a fair amount of stuff you can buy at these powder stores that could be a PED...as that net's gotten wider. Like Sammy Sosa and the creatine. It was "legal" under baseball rules at the time. Not now. I assume there's stuff that's still available at those places that falls under that wider net. And now that those stores seem to be everywhere, I suppose it's possible. |
| 2015-07-13 11:17 AM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
| 439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Have you ever been suspicious about individuals? At what point would you wonder? What type of jumps in speed would cause you to question? |
| 2015-07-13 11:19 AM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
| 701 | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by GMAN 19030 http://www.irishtriathlon.com/index.php/2014/01/ironman-triathlon-d... If 1 in 7 admit it (even anonymously) my guess is the true number is more like 1 in 5. My guess is the percentage goes up the closer to the top of the AG. I'd WAG that 1/3 of the top 20 in the M30-54 AG's are cheating with PEDS. Welp, that blows my idea out the water. Looks like they got pretty good, and usable data. 99.7% response rate from competitors at 3 different events. |
| 2015-07-13 11:21 AM in reply to: LarchmontTri |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by RedCorvette Personally I've never seen any evidence of it in the AG ranks at the races I've done over the past ten years. Not saying it might not be there, but I've never seen anything that raised my suspicions. Mark I second this, but that said, anybody who stands between me and the podium is obviously juiced!! lol Most people don't brag about cheating. It's not like your going to walk through transition race morning and watch people sticking needles in the arms! I do know 1 guy(friend of a friend) who was doing tri's for a couple years and openly admitted to us that he doped. He still couldn't beat me, that's probably why he quit  |
| 2015-07-13 11:40 AM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Extreme Veteran 959 Greenwood, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by GMAN 19030 http://www.irishtriathlon.com/index.php/2014/01/ironman-triathlon-d... If 1 in 7 admit it (even anonymously) my guess is the true number is more like 1 in 5. My guess is the percentage goes up the closer to the top of the AG. I'd WAG that 1/3 of the top 20 in the M30-54 AG's are cheating with PEDS. I would guess the percentage would be lower in the US. The survey was done in Germany where PEDs are more available and accepted. I think the percentage is higher in Germany because they believe others are doing it and want a level playing field. I know some top guys in local races that are in the top five percent and don't believe they do any PEDs based on knowing them. But who knows what goes on behind closed doors. I do know the guys have been endurance athletes for years and put in long hours of training and I put more stock into that for their success. |
| 2015-07-13 11:46 AM in reply to: GODAWGS |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs I think the percentage at the top end in the AG ranks is higher than most of us realize or want to admit. To me, it's comical. Let's say you use PED's to try to get to AG worlds. I'm pretty sure the upper end of insanity is defined by people who use substances that could prove harmful to them just for the opportunity to spend thousands of dollars more to get to a race that isn't that important. |
| 2015-07-13 12:36 PM in reply to: GODAWGS |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by GODAWGS Originally posted by GMAN 19030 http://www.irishtriathlon.com/index.php/2014/01/ironman-triathlon-d... If 1 in 7 admit it (even anonymously) my guess is the true number is more like 1 in 5. My guess is the percentage goes up the closer to the top of the AG. I'd WAG that 1/3 of the top 20 in the M30-54 AG's are cheating with PEDS. I would guess the percentage would be lower in the US. The survey was done in Germany where PEDs are more available and accepted. I think the percentage is higher in Germany because they believe others are doing it and want a level playing field. I know some top guys in local races that are in the top five percent and don't believe they do any PEDs based on knowing them. But who knows what goes on behind closed doors. I do know the guys have been endurance athletes for years and put in long hours of training and I put more stock into that for their success. No idea why you think the US, or N.America would be different. Just look at the prevalence of doping at the local high school level, and as the OP stated the number of people who dope for appearance at any given gym. |
| 2015-07-13 12:39 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by Left Brain I think the percentage at the top end in the AG ranks is higher than most of us realize or want to admit. To me, it's comical. Let's say you use PED's to try to get to AG worlds. I'm pretty sure the upper end of insanity is defined by people who use substances that could prove harmful to them just for the opportunity to spend thousands of dollars more to get to a race that isn't that important. I really wish you wouldn't post this crap. Races are important to the individual, but you keep reminding everyone that it's not important unless you're at the elite level. I was with you the rest of the statement before you took a swipe at everyone for whom those races matter. |
| 2015-07-13 12:42 PM in reply to: GoFaster |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by Left Brain I think the percentage at the top end in the AG ranks is higher than most of us realize or want to admit. To me, it's comical. Let's say you use PED's to try to get to AG worlds. I'm pretty sure the upper end of insanity is defined by people who use substances that could prove harmful to them just for the opportunity to spend thousands of dollars more to get to a race that isn't that important. I really wish you wouldn't post this crap. Races are important to the individual, but you keep reminding everyone that it's not important unless you're at the elite level. I was with you the rest of the statement before you took a swipe at everyone for whom those races matter. He means that going to AG Worlds doesn't make you money, it costs you money. Trust me I know. Its not important, its a race for fun. Putting that in your body for fun is stupid. You can kind of see how for a pro it might make sense (Lance). |
| 2015-07-13 12:47 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by GoFaster Originally posted by Left Brain I think the percentage at the top end in the AG ranks is higher than most of us realize or want to admit. To me, it's comical. Let's say you use PED's to try to get to AG worlds. I'm pretty sure the upper end of insanity is defined by people who use substances that could prove harmful to them just for the opportunity to spend thousands of dollars more to get to a race that isn't that important. I really wish you wouldn't post this crap. Races are important to the individual, but you keep reminding everyone that it's not important unless you're at the elite level. I was with you the rest of the statement before you took a swipe at everyone for whom those races matter. Its a race for fun......period. Dmiller gets it. Unfortunately, it's not that important on the elite level either unless you are the top 10% or so. And that IS a swipe at everyone who does triathlon but takes no interest in the sport beyond their own race. My point still stands......if you take PED'S to get to the top of AG racing you are a moron. Edited by Left Brain 2015-07-13 12:48 PM |
| 2015-07-13 12:50 PM in reply to: mike761 |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by mike761 Originally posted by LarchmontTri Most people don't brag about cheating. It's not like your going to walk through transition race morning and watch people sticking needles in the arms! I do know 1 guy(friend of a friend) who was doing tri's for a couple years and openly admitted to us that he doped. He still couldn't beat me, that's probably why he quitOriginally posted by RedCorvette I second this, but that said, anybody who stands between me and the podium is obviously juiced!! lol Personally I've never seen any evidence of it in the AG ranks at the races I've done over the past ten years. Not saying it might not be there, but I've never seen anything that raised my suspicions. Mark
Nope, haven't seen anyone shooting up in transition before a race.... My original post was based on racing against a lot of the same guys in my AG for 10 years and not seeing any first-hand evidence of doping based on performance improvement ( I also like to track the race results of the guys I race against and who are close to my national ranking on the USAT race results webpage). I know a lot of beginners who made significant improvements for a few years (myself included), but at some point most folks tend to level off and results tend to be fairly predictable. Having undergone some life-threatening medical issues a few years ago, I'm just glad to be here and can't imagine taking anything that might threaten my health just to improve my triathlon results. I wouldn't doubt that some of it is going on, maybe it's more prevalent at the upper echelons, but responding the OP's question, I haven't seen evidence, at least in the MOP of M60-64. Mark
|
| 2015-07-13 12:54 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by Left Brain [ My point still stands......if you take PED'S to get to the top of AG racing you are a moron. Hard to argue with that. Mark |
| 2015-07-13 1:23 PM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs To say that it's not worth it for AGers and being understandable for pros based on money is kind of ludicrous. I'm sure the average AGer makes more money than a lot of the pros. We're not talking NFL money here. There are a very small handful that make bank, but it's really really rare, so the money thing doesn't cut it for me. Jesse Thomas (I think that's his name...the dude who wears the aviators) had an article about what pros actually make about 5-6 months ago in Triathlete magazine. A lot of them are in the 100-200 range, which, let's face it, to be able to afford this hobby, especially if you have kids, I can't imagine being less than 6 figures, so realistically, if money is the object, than not just AG nationals, or even local races...none of it means anything according to some of the posters here. That being said, just from the competitive point of view, I just don't get it. This is a competition, the whole point is to see if you can do what the other guy cant. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. So if you're cheating (PEDs, drafting, cutting turns, whatever) I just don't get it. You didn't win. You came in first, but you didn't win. The place you come across the finish doesn't mean you're a better athlete if you cheat, so what's the point? To make people THINK you won? Just go buy a trophy, put it on your mantle and tell people you won a race, they'll never know, and it means the same thing. I'm the guy that calls out all the drafters in non-draft legal races though, and I've said that same thing to them, why bother racing, just go buy a trophy. One guy was so close to a girls back tire, I yelled, "dude, if you're going to ride that close, at least buy her dinner first." I thought that was clever...and he backed off. |
| 2015-07-13 1:25 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by GODAWGS I would guess the percentage would be lower in the US. The survey was done in Germany where PEDs are more available and accepted. I think the percentage is higher in Germany because they believe others are doing it and want a level playing field. I know some top guys in local races that are in the top five percent and don't believe they do any PEDs based on knowing them. But who knows what goes on behind closed doors. I do know the guys have been endurance athletes for years and put in long hours of training and I put more stock into that for their success. It's funny, I would say the opposite. I spend a lot of time in Germany and doping is certainly not accepted by most people. Yes, you will find some guys that come from an ex cycling background that would not surprise me if I heard they did EPO so some 'hard core' stuff. But very very few would fall in this category. In the US, T replacement therapy is all over the place. I would bet there are tons of MOPers that are on T therapy. Not specifically to be better at tri, but because it makes them feel younger and better about themselves. They don't care if it's cheating, they justify it by saying they are just MOP or they need it for medical reasons. Joel Filliol recently said he believes in the 30% both at the AG and Elite levels. And while we think of LA and EPO injections, you are now hearing of coaches that are within the rules legally, but not morally. For example they play with TUEs to get their athletes on certain medications. I would bet 30% of elites, and elite wannabes do it to get to the next level. I would bet 30% of AGers do it, but a very small percentage do it specifically for their triathlon results. I would bet many do it for other reasons and don't care if it's cheating or not. I would bet most of these people don't believe what they are taking is bad for them. It's not just doping. It's course cutting, drafting, any form of cheating. If you set a goal and then cheat to reach it, what did you accomplish ? Edited by marcag 2015-07-13 1:28 PM |
| 2015-07-13 2:14 PM in reply to: #5128374 |
| 108 | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs The number of people posting pictures of their Garman watch showing their daily work out probably coincides with the number of people using PED's. When I lived in my last city, it was rather common knowledge that people juiced and freely discussed by those using, it was also minimized as being done for the sake of city pride compared to the bigger city that cast its shadow upon our city. sad but so, top tri AGers want victory for the sake of victory. after all, look how many Facebook likes you get whenever you win a race, do well, or especially Kona qualify. That's powerful incentive. |
| 2015-07-13 2:17 PM in reply to: Dutchcrush |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by Dutchcrush look how many Facebook likes you get whenever you win a race, do well, or especially Kona qualify. That's powerful incentive. That's scarier than the health risks. LOL |
|
|
|
|
| car vs ped (me) Pages: 1 2 |
View profile
Add to friends
Go to training log
Go to race log
Send a message
View album
CONNECT WITH FACEBOOK