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Training Like a Swimmer
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 2015-09-23 8:45 AM |
 1502   Katy, Texas |  Subject: Training Like a SwimmerI realize I'm a bit out of the loop/antiquated when it comes to swimming in two ways; one is that I had an 18 year break after high school, and second is that I never swam at any reasonable level (college or otherwise). When I come across a legit swimmer here and there, the way they train looks really foreign to me. I'm used to just grinding out laps in front crawl, and maybe some kick sets and drills. When I have seen a legit or collegiate swimmer train, I've noticed a couple of things: - The number one thing is they seem really "explosive". They seem to do a lot of work putting a lot of explosive energy off the wall, especially for back and butterfly, but freestyle also. - A lot of dolphin kicking and underwater work (see above...really high energy). A lot with flippers. - I don't see a lot of drills - Actual straight swimming seems almost limited, maybe to a main set Now, these are REALLY limited observations as I've only had a chance to see swimmers like that train a couple of times, mostly when we have a lot of collegiate swimmers in the pool over the winter when they come down for a couple of weeks for a meet here. My question is two fold: 1. How do real swimmers train? I realize my observations are really limited, but what I come away with is that they train totally different than me, or anything I've seen. Is it just that I'm happening to see men/women who are non-freestyle swimmers and that's why it looks odd? 2. Is there any benefit to training in this way? Or is it better to just do the standard; warm up-kick-drill-main set-cool down, with focus on the stroke and breathing itself? This may be completely off, but I just know what I see them doing and what I'm doing are two totally different things. |
| 2015-09-23 9:21 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Member 1748  Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer If you can't swim short distances fast you won't be able to swim longer distances fast. If you are looking at actual swimmers, they also train for shorter events generally. 50's, 100's, 200's are very common events. You must be explosive and fast. 1) real swimmers swim with a coach 2) yes being coached by a swim coach will benefit you |
| 2015-09-23 9:29 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Expert 2373 Floriduh | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer To an extent, how you train depends on your event. Sprinters (50m/100m) will spend time with explosive stroke, and turns while a distance swimmer (1500m) will spend more time putting in the laps and stroke economy. |
| 2015-09-23 10:59 AM in reply to: 3mar |
| 1300 | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer Did you do a lot of continuos swims in practice during HS ? That sounds more like what you might be filling in yds with now swimming on your own. Rarely to never will you see a continuos swim in practice. In what I'll call the old days there was a much bigger emphasis on yds / day or week. For example we used to swim 363 days / yr , doubles M-F during the school year and Sat/Sun were 3-4 hr sessions. Pretty much all of that time was dedicated to something , speed work (a little) drills (a lot) - using kick boards, PB, fins, drag suits, bands, my favorite = 5 gallon buckets and some other gadgets. There's programs now that spend probably 25% of what we used to in the water. A lot of that time is spent doing speed work , threshold pace stuff and then drills. There's more emphasis on dry land stuff and cross training. I think part of that is to get rid of the burn out factor. And last of all and I was just talking to someone at the pool about this - old age. Being in the water with college age kids I can at least remember being that fast. The guy I was talking to said he can't even remember it anymore. |
| 2015-09-23 11:07 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer I love swimming with my masters team and it's definitely made me a faster and stronger swimmer. ( I should also mention that I was an AG swimmer growing up and still do a couple of masters swim meets during the year.) I swim with my masters group 3-4 mornings per week. Our coach gives us a lot of variety with drills, kicking and includes all the IM strokes in our workouts. We also focus a lot on streamlines off the wall. In addition, we'll also do some dryland work with stretch bands a couple times a week. Other than our warm-up and cool-down, everything is pretty high intensity swum on intervals. Our coach likes to pair us up with someone of similar ability so that we'll push each other to make the intervals. As an example, our main set this morning was: 3 x 4 x 50 kick on 1:20 (choice of kick) 6 x 75 ( 25 right arm /25 left arm / 25 catch up) on 1:30 2 x 100 fast on 1:40 We don't do a lot of long continuous swimming, but I can easily do sprint tri's off what we do at masters. For longer tri's I'll do something on my own with some longer continuous swims. Mark
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| 2015-09-23 11:23 AM in reply to: 3mar |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer I don't do really any continuous swims. 500 meters max as a warm up, but that's it under normal circumstances. When I'm with my masters group, I'll normally do the workout listed which is the standard type (or at least that I'm used to) with a warm up, then some kicking, then either drills or IM, a main set then a cool down. When I'm on my own, I tend to do more freestyle and a lot of 50's and 100's fast. When I see legit swimmers train, which is sometimes one on one with a coach if I go to the pool later in the day, they do a lot of what was mentioned here. A lot of explosive, high speed work. They seem to be out of the pool as much as in. I saw one girl where it was like they had (what sounded like) a fishing reel that she was pulling against while swimming about 20 yards off the wall until stopping. In the water it seemed like she was submerged half the time and a lot of very explosive, very high energy stuff. Quite frankly, it looked like a lot more fun than what I was doing. |
| 2015-09-23 11:39 AM in reply to: 0 |
| 216 | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer Originally posted by mike761 If you can't swim short distances fast you won't be able to swim longer distances fast. If you are looking at actual swimmers, they also train for shorter events generally. 50's, 100's, 200's are very common events. You must be explosive and fast. Yes, and Yes. And even though I race the whole spectrum of freestyle distances (50-open water), the bulk or my training is short segments. For example, my main set to train for the 500 free is 20-30 75's at 500 race pace on 20 seconds rest. Early in the set, it's not particularly high energy. After a half dozen or so reps, however, it takes more an more effort to hold that race pace. My 100 free training set is 20-30 25's at 100 race pace on 15 seconds rest. That's pretty high energy from rep one. I do very few kick sets, drill sets, or pull sets. I only swim 500 or more yards straight once every couple of weeks. Originally posted by Oysterboy To an extent, how you train depends on your event. Sprinters (50m/100m) will spend time with explosive stroke, and turns... Yes again, although turn work is important to all pool swimmers, regardless of whether they do sprints, middle distance, or long distance. One thing that changed in the time I was away from swimming is that Underwater Dolphin Kicks (UDK's) are now in integral part of "explosive turns". There's less drag underwater and, with training, many swimmers can swimmers can UDK faster than they can swim at the surface. Thus the emphasis you see on that skill. They actually had to add a rule that says you can only UDK out to 15 meters to keep every race from becoming essentially just a UDK race. (The exception is breaststroke, where you're only allowed one UDK off the wall). In the short course format, however, it's still a huge part of the races. Watch Phelps swim a 100 yard short course butterfly; he does the whole distance in 20 strokes, largely because he's underwater for more than half the race. https://vimeo.com/121519519 Even young age groupers are being coached this. Check out this video of Miriam Sheehan breaking the 10 & Under National Record in the 100 back. She's underwater for at least half the pool off each wall. https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=8&v=GIx4PhqqNVc Edited by gary p 2015-09-23 11:54 AM |
| 2015-09-23 11:50 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer I found the most overwhelming difference between the way swimmers swim and triathletes swim is volume. I don' think people realize just how much swimmers swim. It's impressive. When you're swimming 40, 50, 80k a week you mix it up differently than when you are swimming 8k. Edited by marcag 2015-09-23 11:52 AM |
| 2015-09-23 11:59 AM in reply to: marcag |
| 216 | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer Originally posted by marcag I found the most overwhelming difference between the way swimmers swim and triathletes swim is volume. I don' think people realize just how much swimmers swim. It's impressive. When you're swimming 40, 50, 80k a week you mix it up differently than when you are swimming 8k. That was the the way pretty much everybody did it back in the day. Many still train like that, but the philosophy of "Quality over Quantity" has certainly been gaining ground in swim coaching circles. |
| 2015-09-23 12:00 PM in reply to: 3mar |
| 82 | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer Originally posted by 3mar I don't do really any continuous swims. 500 meters max as a warm up, but that's it under normal circumstances. When I'm with my masters group, I'll normally do the workout listed which is the standard type (or at least that I'm used to) with a warm up, then some kicking, then either drills or IM, a main set then a cool down. When I'm on my own, I tend to do more freestyle and a lot of 50's and 100's fast. When I see legit swimmers train, which is sometimes one on one with a coach if I go to the pool later in the day, they do a lot of what was mentioned here. A lot of explosive, high speed work. They seem to be out of the pool as much as in. I saw one girl where it was like they had (what sounded like) a fishing reel that she was pulling against while swimming about 20 yards off the wall until stopping. In the water it seemed like she was submerged half the time and a lot of very explosive, very high energy stuff. Quite frankly, it looked like a lot more fun than what I was doing. When people say how a triathlon can be won or lost in transition... Well, elite swimming is won and lost on starts and turns. Shaving hundreds and tenths of a second off your starts, turns and underwater kicks before you begin the stroke are absolute must haves for swimmers. And getting up to speed as quickly as possible. That is possibly the stuff that you are likely seeing them train for that is not in your regimen. And unless you plan to do an indoor tri, the stuff they are working on is not valuable to you. But if it looks like fun, go ahead and do it! 70-80% of my swimming is continuous laps at 600 yards and more, often with a pull buoy. But I throw in the occasional 100 yard butterfly, breast or back sprint. It doesn't do a whole lot to help me train for a one mile distance swim, but it's fun and breaks up the monotony. |
| 2015-09-23 12:06 PM in reply to: 3mar |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer It sounds like a lot of what I am seeing is indeed underwater dolphin kick. It is really impressive to see how much power they have off the wall. I turn then normally take my first stroke at the flags, or a little past, and really don't have any explosiveness. I realize it probably wouldn't help my triathlon much (or at least that's what I'm interpreting) but the power these guys/girls have over the water in those aspects looks awesome. I wouldn't mind doing some training like that, if for no other reason than to break things up and build confidence in the water, but have no clue where to start. |
| 2015-09-23 12:11 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer Originally posted by 3mar It sounds like a lot of what I am seeing is indeed underwater dolphin kick. It is really impressive to see how much power they have off the wall. I turn then normally take my first stroke at the flags, or a little past, and really don't have any explosiveness. I realize it probably wouldn't help my triathlon much (or at least that's what I'm interpreting) but the power these guys/girls have over the water in those aspects looks awesome. I wouldn't mind doing some training like that, if for no other reason than to break things up and build confidence in the water, but have no clue where to start. Tell yourself that you are going to do 2-3 quick dolphin kicks off every flip turn. You'll quickly realize how incredibly tiring it is! If you can commit to it and get used to it, it's likely very valuable (as a swimmer). I always bail on the idea when I get tired... |
| 2015-09-23 1:25 PM in reply to: 3mar |
| 1300 | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer Originally posted by 3mar, but have no clue where to start. Flippers |
| 2015-09-23 1:39 PM in reply to: axteraa |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by 3mar It sounds like a lot of what I am seeing is indeed underwater dolphin kick. It is really impressive to see how much power they have off the wall. I turn then normally take my first stroke at the flags, or a little past, and really don't have any explosiveness. I realize it probably wouldn't help my triathlon much (or at least that's what I'm interpreting) but the power these guys/girls have over the water in those aspects looks awesome. I wouldn't mind doing some training like that, if for no other reason than to break things up and build confidence in the water, but have no clue where to start. Tell yourself that you are going to do 2-3 quick dolphin kicks off every flip turn. You'll quickly realize how incredibly tiring it is! If you can commit to it and get used to it, it's likely very valuable (as a swimmer). I always bail on the idea when I get tired... I've been working on not breathing directly out of my turn (taking a stroke first) as that was slowing me down, and that has taken some getting used to. I'll have to try to incorporate that next. I just know when I dolphin kick, it certainly isn't even in the same realm as what I see legit swimmers do. |
| 2015-09-23 3:45 PM in reply to: axteraa |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by 3mar It sounds like a lot of what I am seeing is indeed underwater dolphin kick. It is really impressive to see how much power they have off the wall. I turn then normally take my first stroke at the flags, or a little past, and really don't have any explosiveness. I realize it probably wouldn't help my triathlon much (or at least that's what I'm interpreting) but the power these guys/girls have over the water in those aspects looks awesome. I wouldn't mind doing some training like that, if for no other reason than to break things up and build confidence in the water, but have no clue where to start. Tell yourself that you are going to do 2-3 quick dolphin kicks off every flip turn. You'll quickly realize how incredibly tiring it is! If you can commit to it and get used to it, it's likely very valuable (as a swimmer). I always bail on the idea when I get tired... Dolphin kicking gives you a great core workout. If the coach gives us a choice, I'll always do some dolphin kicking during a kick set. I'll push off, do 6 kicks, breathe and then repeat. I'll go 25 yds on three repeats. It's much faster than flutter kicking with a kickboard, and once you learn to engage your entire core, it's a lot easier, IMHO. Mark |
| 2015-09-23 3:56 PM in reply to: H2OhNo |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer Originally posted by H2OhNo Originally posted by 3mar I don't do really any continuous swims. 500 meters max as a warm up, but that's it under normal circumstances. When I'm with my masters group, I'll normally do the workout listed which is the standard type (or at least that I'm used to) with a warm up, then some kicking, then either drills or IM, a main set then a cool down. When I'm on my own, I tend to do more freestyle and a lot of 50's and 100's fast. When I see legit swimmers train, which is sometimes one on one with a coach if I go to the pool later in the day, they do a lot of what was mentioned here. A lot of explosive, high speed work. They seem to be out of the pool as much as in. I saw one girl where it was like they had (what sounded like) a fishing reel that she was pulling against while swimming about 20 yards off the wall until stopping. In the water it seemed like she was submerged half the time and a lot of very explosive, very high energy stuff. Quite frankly, it looked like a lot more fun than what I was doing. When people say how a triathlon can be won or lost in transition... Well, elite swimming is won and lost on starts and turns. Shaving hundreds and tenths of a second off your starts, turns and underwater kicks before you begin the stroke are absolute must haves for swimmers. And getting up to speed as quickly as possible. That is possibly the stuff that you are likely seeing them train for that is not in your regimen. And unless you plan to do an indoor tri, the stuff they are working on is not valuable to you. But if it looks like fun, go ahead and do it! 70-80% of my swimming is continuous laps at 600 yards and more, often with a pull buoy. But I throw in the occasional 100 yard butterfly, breast or back sprint. It doesn't do a whole lot to help me train for a one mile distance swim, but it's fun and breaks up the monotony. I couldn't disagree more with that statement. While it's true that most triathletes just don't put in the volume and time because of their own time constraints, it's patently false to say that kind of swimming won't help you in a triathlon....especially during a swim focus. We can argue about it, but then I can show you what some of the very fastest swimmers (and also at the very top overall) at AG sprint nationals do for training (hint, they are al club swimmers). Triathlon swimming is not some kind of special swimming. Fast swimming is fast swimming. Training to swim fast is training to swim fast |
| 2015-09-23 3:58 PM in reply to: axteraa |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by 3mar It sounds like a lot of what I am seeing is indeed underwater dolphin kick. It is really impressive to see how much power they have off the wall. I turn then normally take my first stroke at the flags, or a little past, and really don't have any explosiveness. I realize it probably wouldn't help my triathlon much (or at least that's what I'm interpreting) but the power these guys/girls have over the water in those aspects looks awesome. I wouldn't mind doing some training like that, if for no other reason than to break things up and build confidence in the water, but have no clue where to start. Tell yourself that you are going to do 2-3 quick dolphin kicks off every flip turn. You'll quickly realize how incredibly tiring it is! If you can commit to it and get used to it, it's likely very valuable (as a swimmer). I always bail on the idea when I get tired... I know you know this xterraa - but try doing 50 X 25 underwater dolphin kicks if you want to see what kin of core it builds. I'm always stunned when I see our club team do that workout. |
| 2015-09-23 4:39 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 216 | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by H2OhNo When people say how a triathlon can be won or lost in transition... Well, elite swimming is won and lost on starts and turns. Shaving hundreds and tenths of a second off your starts, turns and underwater kicks before you begin the stroke are absolute must haves for swimmers. And getting up to speed as quickly as possible. That is possibly the stuff that you are likely seeing them train for that is not in your regimen. And unless you plan to do an indoor tri, the stuff they are working on is not valuable to you. I couldn't disagree more with that statement. While it's true that most triathletes just don't put in the volume and time because of their own time constraints, it's patently false to say that kind of swimming won't help you in a triathlon....especially during a swim focus. We can argue about it, but then I can show you what some of the very fastest swimmers (and also at the very top overall) at AG sprint nationals do for training (hint, they are al club swimmers).Triathlon swimming is not some kind of special swimming. Fast swimming is fast swimming. Training to swim fast is training to swim fast It's not exactly crazy to suggest that perfecting starts, turns, and other wall-work isn't a particularly high-value activity for a triathlete.  Edited by gary p 2015-09-23 5:05 PM |
| 2015-09-23 5:05 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by 3mar It sounds like a lot of what I am seeing is indeed underwater dolphin kick. It is really impressive to see how much power they have off the wall. I turn then normally take my first stroke at the flags, or a little past, and really don't have any explosiveness. I realize it probably wouldn't help my triathlon much (or at least that's what I'm interpreting) but the power these guys/girls have over the water in those aspects looks awesome. I wouldn't mind doing some training like that, if for no other reason than to break things up and build confidence in the water, but have no clue where to start. Tell yourself that you are going to do 2-3 quick dolphin kicks off every flip turn. You'll quickly realize how incredibly tiring it is! If you can commit to it and get used to it, it's likely very valuable (as a swimmer). I always bail on the idea when I get tired... I know you know this xterraa - but try doing 50 X 25 underwater dolphin kicks if you want to see what kin of core it builds. I'm always stunned when I see our club team do that workout. I've never done 50 but have done (much) shorter variations of that. It's brutal! |
| 2015-09-23 5:18 PM in reply to: gary p |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer Originally posted by gary p Originally posted by Left Brain It's not exactly crazy to suggest that perfecting starts, turns, and other wall-work isn't a particularly high-value activity for a triathlete. Originally posted by H2OhNo When people say how a triathlon can be won or lost in transition... Well, elite swimming is won and lost on starts and turns. Shaving hundreds and tenths of a second off your starts, turns and underwater kicks before you begin the stroke are absolute must haves for swimmers. And getting up to speed as quickly as possible. That is possibly the stuff that you are likely seeing them train for that is not in your regimen. And unless you plan to do an indoor tri, the stuff they are working on is not valuable to you. I couldn't disagree more with that statement. While it's true that most triathletes just don't put in the volume and time because of their own time constraints, it's patently false to say that kind of swimming won't help you in a triathlon....especially during a swim focus. We can argue about it, but then I can show you what some of the very fastest swimmers (and also at the very top overall) at AG sprint nationals do for training (hint, they are al club swimmers).Triathlon swimming is not some kind of special swimming. Fast swimming is fast swimming. Training to swim fast is training to swim fast I know your point.....but every single one of those helps with feel for the water, breathing, streamline, and balance. I know people who are training for triathlon don't do those things, and that's fine.....but none of it is a waste of time even for them. Like I said......working to be a fast swimmer is not magic, it just takes work......all kinds of work.... the kind fast swimmers do, not the kind triathletes typically do. |
| 2015-09-23 6:56 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by 3mar It sounds like a lot of what I am seeing is indeed underwater dolphin kick. It is really impressive to see how much power they have off the wall. I turn then normally take my first stroke at the flags, or a little past, and really don't have any explosiveness. I realize it probably wouldn't help my triathlon much (or at least that's what I'm interpreting) but the power these guys/girls have over the water in those aspects looks awesome. I wouldn't mind doing some training like that, if for no other reason than to break things up and build confidence in the water, but have no clue where to start. Tell yourself that you are going to do 2-3 quick dolphin kicks off every flip turn. You'll quickly realize how incredibly tiring it is! If you can commit to it and get used to it, it's likely very valuable (as a swimmer). I always bail on the idea when I get tired... I know you know this xterraa - but try doing 50 X 25 underwater dolphin kicks if you want to see what kin of core it builds. I'm always stunned when I see our club team do that workout. Ryan Lochte going 20.8 underwater for 50 yds SCY: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZSUQwfg6ZU Mark |
| 2015-09-23 7:02 PM in reply to: RedCorvette |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer Originally posted by RedCorvette Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by 3mar It sounds like a lot of what I am seeing is indeed underwater dolphin kick. It is really impressive to see how much power they have off the wall. I turn then normally take my first stroke at the flags, or a little past, and really don't have any explosiveness. I realize it probably wouldn't help my triathlon much (or at least that's what I'm interpreting) but the power these guys/girls have over the water in those aspects looks awesome. I wouldn't mind doing some training like that, if for no other reason than to break things up and build confidence in the water, but have no clue where to start. Tell yourself that you are going to do 2-3 quick dolphin kicks off every flip turn. You'll quickly realize how incredibly tiring it is! If you can commit to it and get used to it, it's likely very valuable (as a swimmer). I always bail on the idea when I get tired... I know you know this xterraa - but try doing 50 X 25 underwater dolphin kicks if you want to see what kin of core it builds. I'm always stunned when I see our club team do that workout. Ryan Lochte going 20.8 underwater for 50 yds SCY: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZSUQwfg6ZU Mark That is insane. |
| 2015-09-24 3:18 AM in reply to: RedCorvette |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer Originally posted by RedCorvette Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by 3mar It sounds like a lot of what I am seeing is indeed underwater dolphin kick. It is really impressive to see how much power they have off the wall. I turn then normally take my first stroke at the flags, or a little past, and really don't have any explosiveness. I realize it probably wouldn't help my triathlon much (or at least that's what I'm interpreting) but the power these guys/girls have over the water in those aspects looks awesome. I wouldn't mind doing some training like that, if for no other reason than to break things up and build confidence in the water, but have no clue where to start. Tell yourself that you are going to do 2-3 quick dolphin kicks off every flip turn. You'll quickly realize how incredibly tiring it is! If you can commit to it and get used to it, it's likely very valuable (as a swimmer). I always bail on the idea when I get tired... I know you know this xterraa - but try doing 50 X 25 underwater dolphin kicks if you want to see what kin of core it builds. I'm always stunned when I see our club team do that workout. Ryan Lochte going 20.8 underwater for 50 yds SCY: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZSUQwfg6ZU Mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EFjQDgIfKM A WR by almost a second. |
| 2015-09-24 4:04 AM in reply to: 0 |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer FWIW I was mainly a distance specialist in high school (500yd pretty much every meet, 1500m/1650 yd. in the big invitationals, and was the fastest 1500m swimmer on the team at just under or over 21 minutes, can't remember). So maybe my training was more focused on the distances that typical triathletes swim. Not a super high-powered team but we worked hard and did okay except against some of the big city schools that had swimmers who were also on junior elite teams. Our coaches were an MD with an ex phys. degree, and one of the early Ironmen. What I recall is-- *NOBODY swam just freestyle. You were expected to have a "stroke" that you would focus on for the stroke sets, and that you would swim on one of the relay teams. Probably 30-40% of most workouts was "stroke". I was mainly a distance swimmer, but I trained and competed for the 100 and 200 fly, and swam them in meets--the 100 mostly on the B or C relay and the 200 in bigger meets, since even some of the sprint girls had trouble finishing it. (Believe me, more suffering than the 1500m.) I have no doubt that all those years of fly (starting at 10 on a youth team) helped build my core and upper body strength as well as my lung capacity and mental toughness, which was useful in not only swimming but running. I cannot imagine how else I could have done times like a 2:59 marathon at age 14 and a 1:19 HM at fifteen after essentially taking the winter off running and then maybe 4 months of running 30-35 miles a week max. *We did quite a bit of kicking and pulling, with and without boards/buoys/fins. I don't remember using paddles. *Distance swimmers did do some longer repeats, but not that long. Mostly 50's and 100's and the occasional 200, holding 500m pace or better. Faster ones with a bit more rest, slower ones with less rest. I don't think we ever did repeats longer than 200m except as time trials. MAYBE occasionally I did some 400-500 repeats to work on pacing for the 1500m. It probably would have just been me, the one guy who usually swam it, and Mr. Ironman doing that (pacing us) for a few workouts before the meet, instead of the standard set. I don't really recall distance swimmers often doing different sets than anyone else, except when we were going to do a 1500 in an upcoming meet. Maybe a few times a week they would do some separate sets for us and the sprinters, with the latter focusing more on starts off the block and 25's. I don'r remember doing a lot of that in free, just in fly. *Most sets were very intense. Feeling like you were going to puke was extremely common, and actually doing it occasionally happened. *The dolphin kick thing was not legal back then in free (I think), just in fly and maybe back. We did do plenty of sets of underwater dolphin kick, some with fins. I think everyone did them, not just the butterfly swimmers. As I recall, you weren't supposed to come up for air. *We did quite a bit of yardage. I believed that has maybe changed to more of an emphasis on quantity. In HS (from age 13 on), during the season we peaked at about 10,000 yd a day, five days a week, plus a 5K practice on Saturday AM. Less during build and taper. I can't imagine that level of training now, but if it was my only sport, and I could just go home and collapse instead of make dinner, do housework, take online coursework, etc. then maybe. But I think in particular most triathletes would benefit from incorporating other strokes and making most of swim workouts focused on harder interval work rather than just steady lap swimming. Edited by Hot Runner 2015-09-24 4:06 AM |
| 2015-09-24 9:12 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Training Like a Swimmer Originally posted by Hot Runner FWIW I was mainly a distance specialist in high school (500yd pretty much every meet, 1500m/1650 yd. in the big invitationals, and was the fastest 1500m swimmer on the team at just under or over 21 minutes, can't remember). So maybe my training was more focused on the distances that typical triathletes swim. Not a super high-powered team but we worked hard and did okay except against some of the big city schools that had swimmers who were also on junior elite teams. Our coaches were an MD with an ex phys. degree, and one of the early Ironmen. What I recall is-- *NOBODY swam just freestyle. You were expected to have a "stroke" that you would focus on for the stroke sets, and that you would swim on one of the relay teams. Probably 30-40% of most workouts was "stroke". I was mainly a distance swimmer, but I trained and competed for the 100 and 200 fly, and swam them in meets--the 100 mostly on the B or C relay and the 200 in bigger meets, since even some of the sprint girls had trouble finishing it. (Believe me, more suffering than the 1500m.) I have no doubt that all those years of fly (starting at 10 on a youth team) helped build my core and upper body strength as well as my lung capacity and mental toughness, which was useful in not only swimming but running. I cannot imagine how else I could have done times like a 2:59 marathon at age 14 and a 1:19 HM at fifteen after essentially taking the winter off running and then maybe 4 months of running 30-35 miles a week max. *We did quite a bit of kicking and pulling, with and without boards/buoys/fins. I don't remember using paddles. *Distance swimmers did do some longer repeats, but not that long. Mostly 50's and 100's and the occasional 200, holding 500m pace or better. Faster ones with a bit more rest, slower ones with less rest. I don't think we ever did repeats longer than 200m except as time trials. MAYBE occasionally I did some 400-500 repeats to work on pacing for the 1500m. It probably would have just been me, the one guy who usually swam it, and Mr. Ironman doing that (pacing us) for a few workouts before the meet, instead of the standard set. I don't really recall distance swimmers often doing different sets than anyone else, except when we were going to do a 1500 in an upcoming meet. Maybe a few times a week they would do some separate sets for us and the sprinters, with the latter focusing more on starts off the block and 25's. I don'r remember doing a lot of that in free, just in fly. *Most sets were very intense. Feeling like you were going to puke was extremely common, and actually doing it occasionally happened. *The dolphin kick thing was not legal back then in free (I think), just in fly and maybe back. We did do plenty of sets of underwater dolphin kick, some with fins. I think everyone did them, not just the butterfly swimmers. As I recall, you weren't supposed to come up for air. *We did quite a bit of yardage. I believed that has maybe changed to more of an emphasis on quantity. In HS (from age 13 on), during the season we peaked at about 10,000 yd a day, five days a week, plus a 5K practice on Saturday AM. Less during build and taper. I can't imagine that level of training now, but if it was my only sport, and I could just go home and collapse instead of make dinner, do housework, take online coursework, etc. then maybe. But I think in particular most triathletes would benefit from incorporating other strokes and making most of swim workouts focused on harder interval work rather than just steady lap swimming. 55,000 yards per week is 2.8 million yards per year. Nobody can realistically do that for triathlon training. BUT....they can incorporate all of the things in your post on a smaller scale. It's what a good swim coach would have you doing to learn to swim fast. My kid swims about 1.2 - 1.4 million yards per year. He doesn't swim 10,000 yards per day ever.....but he does swim every day. (misses a day here and there). His workouts are 4-5000 yards, with some days that go to 6500 or so during long course season. It's about an hour and 45 minutes per day. Yeah, it's still a lot of swimming, but only compared to a person trianing for triathlon who thinks 200,000 - 300,000 yards per year is A LOT of swimming. It's just not if you want to be competitive. I think any swimming is good swimming......but if you REALLY want to be a better swimmer you have to train like a swimmer. The overwheling majority of triathlon coaches can't get you there.....they wouldn't know where to start. The good ones will tell you that. It takes a swim coach to be a fast swimmer. And they will use all of those techniques that a triathlete will tell you that you don't need. Edited by Left Brain 2015-09-24 9:14 AM |
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