Seal vs Sea Lion (Page 2)
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2016-02-02 2:12 PM in reply to: gary p |
360 Ottawa, Ontario | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion I'll just add that I think being able to engage a powerful kick as a tool when you need it is handy. Sure, you're not going to be kicking super hard for the whole distance of an Oly/HIM/IM, but sometimes it's useful to be able to give you an extra surge. For example, I often find myself getting dropped a little as I round a buoy and need to be able to pick it up a little in order to catch back up to whoever I was drafting, and having a strong kick helps to do that without taxing the rest of you too much. |
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2016-02-02 2:17 PM in reply to: gary p |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by gary p Originally posted by RedCorvette My masters coach was an ITU world champion, and she has us swimming with a six-beat kick all the time in practice. If you want to "swim" a triathlon, a 2-beat kick will work OK; if you want to RACE it, then you need to have a 6-beat kick in your arsenal. You may not need to employ it all the time, but it has to be there when you do. The catch is that developing a strong 6-beat kick takes work and commitment. That's where an individual needs to decide what their priorities are. Triathlon training is always about compromise and balance with S/B/R. Being able to swim with a six beat kick and having a powerful kick aren't necessarily the same thing. I know a lot of people, my self included, who can effectively employ a six beat kick but aren't particularly fast with a kickboard and no fins. A 6 beat can be useful for additional stability in rough water, or for additional stability at higher stroke rates. In neither situation are you necessarily deriving any significant additional propulsion from the kick. Mark An effective six-beat kick should provide somewhere around 25% of your propulsive force. With all due respect, doing a six-beat kick without deriving some propulsion from it seems like a big waste of energy. I guess my suggestion would be to have a coach take a look to see if there are any easily-identifiable fundamental issues that might help improve the effectiveness of your kick Mark |
2016-02-02 2:23 PM in reply to: marcag |
216 | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by marcag here's another AGer (BTer) bottom lane, he's pretty fast, but lacks on the kick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLa_PsM6wnk&t=30 Few of those kids really kicked hard until the last 100. Many of them broke 9 minutes for a half mile. |
2016-02-02 2:30 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by gary p Originally posted by marcag here's another AGer (BTer) bottom lane, he's pretty fast, but lacks on the kick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLa_PsM6wnk&t=30 Few of those kids really kicked hard until the last 100. Many of them broke 9 minutes for a half mile. Those 'kids' are the 2nd fastest heat at the world masters championships held in Montreal 2years ago. The 'kid' without the kick in the bottom lane is Bo, a BTer here, Canadian record holder for the 1500m free 35-39yo. Edited by marcag 2016-02-02 2:31 PM |
2016-02-02 2:37 PM in reply to: marcag |
216 | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by gary p Originally posted by marcag here's another AGer (BTer) bottom lane, he's pretty fast, but lacks on the kick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLa_PsM6wnk&t=30 Few of those kids really kicked hard until the last 100. Many of them broke 9 minutes for a half mile. Those 'kids' are the 2nd fastest heat at the world masters championships held in Montreal 2years ago. The 'kid' without the kick in the bottom lane is Bo, a BTer here, Canadian record holder for the 1500m free 35-39yo. Kids, not kids, they swam a damn fast half mile, mostly without the thunderous 6 beat kick some people mistakenly seem to think triathletes need to be fast. |
2016-02-02 2:42 PM in reply to: gary p |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by gary p Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by gary p Originally posted by marcag here's another AGer (BTer) bottom lane, he's pretty fast, but lacks on the kick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLa_PsM6wnk&t=30 Few of those kids really kicked hard until the last 100. Many of them broke 9 minutes for a half mile. Those 'kids' are the 2nd fastest heat at the world masters championships held in Montreal 2years ago. The 'kid' without the kick in the bottom lane is Bo, a BTer here, Canadian record holder for the 1500m free 35-39yo. Kids, not kids, they swam a damn fast half mile, mostly without the thunderous 6 beat kick some people mistakenly seem to think triathletes need to be fast. Yep!! And if you look at that other video, plenty of triathletes in that one not doing 'thunderous' 6 beat kicks |
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2016-02-02 2:45 PM in reply to: marcag |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by marcag here's another AGer (BTer) bottom lane, he's pretty fast, but lacks on the kick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLa_PsM6wnk&t=30 Yes he is, and yes he does (so it's no coincidence that he gets beat by everyone in the pool).....and it will be more pronounced in open water where a strong kick is an essential part of getting out of the washing machine in any type of decent race. It cracks me up that these discussions always break down to "triathlon swimming" vs. "swimming"......as if triathlon swimming is special swimming. LOL |
2016-02-02 2:49 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by ChrisM Originally posted by RedCorvette Originally posted by ChrisM Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Oysterboy Originally posted by RedCorvette Many FOP triathletes get along just fine utilizing a two-beat kick primarily for balance and stabilization. +1 Kicking for notable propulsion is fine if you are swimming a 100 yard race, but try keeping up that pace for a 1500m distance.
I know the point you are making and I get it.....BUT.....go watch an open water swim race, or a DL triathlon with people who can actually swim fast. They kick, and it's all part of their fast swim times. No, they can't keep their 100 yard pace up for 1500.....but they can EASILY keep mine or your 100 pace up for that long (probably anyone on this thread) and kicking is part of the reason why. Fast swimming is fast swimming.......kicking is part of it. This is very true. If you truly want to be come the fastest swimmer you can be then become a good kicker. Watch any ITU race and this is clear Yep.. My masters coach was an ITU world champion, and she has us swimming with a six-beat kick all the time in practice. If you want to "swim" a triathlon, a 2-beat kick will work OK; if you want to RACE it, then you need to have a 6-beat kick in your arsenal. You may not need to employ it all the time, but it has to be there when you do. The catch is that developing a strong 6-beat kick takes work and commitment. That's where an individual needs to decide what their priorities are. Triathlon training is always about compromise and balance with S/B/R. Mark Here I'll disagree a bit as an AGer. I am very near the front out of the water and nowhere near a 6 beat. The only races I come near the podium when all is said and done are races with unusually long swims (i.e. a local sprint with a .5 mile swim). What keeps me off the podium is not lack of a kick, it's getting caught on the run. (ETA, maybe a 6 beat kick gets me another 5 minutes?? doubt it... ) But as LB points out this is an AGer phenomenon where lots of folks are just getting through the swim and surviving it. Not a swimmer or elite/jr. elite/pro level issue. JUST my n=1 experience Not suggesting that a 6-beat should be used throughout an entire race. Our coach has us practice race strategies where we use it at the start to gain some separation from the field, then settle into a 2 or 4 beat "cruising" pace, shifting back into a 6 beat either to pass or at the finish. We do sets where we practice doing accelerations and decelerations to target tempos mid-length in the pool (rather than at the wall to better simulate OW). Our coach is big on sharing "elite" strategies and techniques with us. Not everyone has the talent, ability or motivation to pull all of the stuff off, but I think being exposed to it does help even at the AG level. Mark |
2016-02-02 3:04 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by Left Brain You can't be a FOP swimmer in any upper level swim competition without a strong kick. Again.....any other notion is silly. Point is that in those two videos is there are FOP swimmers, pool and OW that are not all using a strong kick. There is not one guy in that first video that isn't a 'fast' swimmer. And to say Bo is anything but fast is.....silly Nobody is separating triathlon from competitive swimming. Edited by marcag 2016-02-02 3:13 PM |
2016-02-02 3:07 PM in reply to: 0 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag here's another AGer (BTer) bottom lane, he's pretty fast, but lacks on the kick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLa_PsM6wnk&t=30 Yes he is, and yes he does (so it's no coincidence that he gets beat by everyone in the pool).....and it will be more pronounced in open water where a strong kick is an essential part of getting out of the washing machine in any type of decent race. It cracks me up that these discussions always break down to "triathlon swimming" vs. "swimming"......as if triathlon swimming is special swimming. LOL Swimming is swimming but you have to admit they have different end goals. In a swim race, you are burning every match you've got with the goal of finishing completely spent. The goal of a tri swim is to finish as quickly as possible without digging yourself into a hole. A strong kick uses a lot of energy. If you can minimize that and it only costs you 30s in your swim time then overall you may be ahead at the end. You have to find the balance of what gets you to the swim finish the fastest vs setting you up for the rest of the race. BTW, I'm not saying don't kick to save your legs, I'm talking overall energy usage. Edit to add that in a draft legal race that 30s means you miss the bike pack so it's a completely different strategy. Same for the pointy end of a fast sprint - you probably aren't making up that 30s. Edited by axteraa 2016-02-02 3:11 PM |
2016-02-02 3:16 PM in reply to: axteraa |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag here's another AGer (BTer) bottom lane, he's pretty fast, but lacks on the kick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLa_PsM6wnk&t=30 Yes he is, and yes he does (so it's no coincidence that he gets beat by everyone in the pool).....and it will be more pronounced in open water where a strong kick is an essential part of getting out of the washing machine in any type of decent race. It cracks me up that these discussions always break down to "triathlon swimming" vs. "swimming"......as if triathlon swimming is special swimming. LOL Swimming is swimming but you have to admit they have different end goals. In a swim race, you are burning every match you've got with the goal of finishing completely spent. The goal of a tri swim is to finish as quickly as possible without digging yourself into a hole. A strong kick uses a lot of energy. If you can minimize that and it only costs you 30s in your swim time then overall you may be ahead at the end. You have to find the balance of what gets you to the swim finish the fastest vs setting you up for the rest of the race. BTW, I'm not saying don't kick to save your legs, I'm talking overall energy usage. Edit to add that in a draft legal race that 30s means you miss the bike pack so it's a completely different strategy. Same for the pointy end of a fast sprint - you probably aren't making up that 30s. Yeah......I find that I no longer think of triathlon the way I used to. Since everything I am around is DL and sprint focused the idea of what is important and what isn't is vastly different then long course racing. Then too, I find that most people who focus on long course don't really have a clue about what short course strategy comprises. I enjoy the discussions. Still.....fast swimming is fast swimming.......fast triathlon swimming is a bastardization. |
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2016-02-02 3:27 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
1300 | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion LB, I think the other thing you need to look at is swimming has evolved over the years. What you have been exposed to with Jr is a lot different from what someone in their 40's and maybe 30's was taught. I showed one of my older brothers a video of my son swimming his first meet. He started telling him your dad or I need to work on your stroke. I started laughing and explained some of the changes that have occurred in the 40 years since he swam. The S pull he and I were taught are completely different from the stroke my son is being taught. My point being with younger swimmers like Jr the kick is enormous. When I was his age the kick (while important) wasn't as stressed as it is today. So when you say things like you can't swim fast without a great kick I wouldn't agree a 100%. |
2016-02-02 3:31 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag here's another AGer (BTer) bottom lane, he's pretty fast, but lacks on the kick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLa_PsM6wnk&t=30 Yes he is, and yes he does (so it's no coincidence that he gets beat by everyone in the pool).....and it will be more pronounced in open water where a strong kick is an essential part of getting out of the washing machine in any type of decent race. It cracks me up that these discussions always break down to "triathlon swimming" vs. "swimming"......as if triathlon swimming is special swimming. LOL Swimming is swimming but you have to admit they have different end goals. In a swim race, you are burning every match you've got with the goal of finishing completely spent. The goal of a tri swim is to finish as quickly as possible without digging yourself into a hole. A strong kick uses a lot of energy. If you can minimize that and it only costs you 30s in your swim time then overall you may be ahead at the end. You have to find the balance of what gets you to the swim finish the fastest vs setting you up for the rest of the race. BTW, I'm not saying don't kick to save your legs, I'm talking overall energy usage. Edit to add that in a draft legal race that 30s means you miss the bike pack so it's a completely different strategy. Same for the pointy end of a fast sprint - you probably aren't making up that 30s. Watching Kona this year I was surprised to see, especially amongst the women how strongly some were kicking and others net to nothing. Jodie Swallow for example has quite a quick. I wonder how much effort she is actually putting into that The first video I posted,, some have kick others next to nothing and they are all 'fast swimmers'. Very fast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIa6LG54RP8&feature=youtu.be&t=50 Second video, fastest heats of worlds master pool swimming (800m), some strong kicks, some not so strong. Pool, long distance, short distance, DL, non DL you seem to find those that kick, those less. Even amongst the 'fast' guys. Amongst the 100, 200m freestyle, they all have good kicks. The longer distance, pool. OWS, fast traithlon, it seems mixed. Edited by marcag 2016-02-02 3:39 PM |
2016-02-02 3:51 PM in reply to: 0 |
1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion I have no idea what this 2-beat, 6-beat kick business is. I never think about anything going on outside of my arms. My legs just do their thing. Is that kicking 6 times for every stroke? Anyway, I have no idea what my legs are doing. I haven't had a video of myself swimming for almost a year and my (upper body) portion of my stroke is completely different now (and quite a bit faster) but I have made no effort to do anything different with my kick, so I'd assume that is unchanged. Looking back, it looks like I'm kicking 3 times per stroke, so is that a 3 beat kick? https://youtu.be/K6sKzHYBIS0 Here's another twist, although I'm pathetically slow kicking alone, I am also really slow with paddles and a pull buoy. So both kind of suck by themselves. Weird. P.S. did the seal vs sea lion thing land? Just wondering. You know, cause one propels themselves with their "legs" and the other with their "arms"? I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't done the "swim with a sea lion" thing in Florida. By the way, you're not allowed to race them. Edited by 3mar 2016-02-02 3:52 PM |
2016-02-02 4:20 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by 3mar I have no idea what this 2-beat, 6-beat kick business is. I never think about anything going on outside of my arms. My legs just do their thing. Is that kicking 6 times for every stroke? Anyway, I have no idea what my legs are doing. I haven't had a video of myself swimming for almost a year and my (upper body) portion of my stroke is completely different now (and quite a bit faster) but I have made no effort to do anything different with my kick, so I'd assume that is unchanged. Looking back, it looks like I'm kicking 3 times per stroke, so is that a 3 beat kick? https://youtu.be/K6sKzHYBIS0Here's another twist, although I'm pathetically slow kicking alone, I am also really slow with paddles and a pull buoy. So both kind of suck by themselves. Weird. P.S. did the seal vs sea lion thing land? Just wondering. You know, cause one propels themselves with their "legs" and the other with their "arms"? I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't done the "swim with a sea lion" thing in Florida. By the way, you're not allowed to race them. It's the number of kicks for a complete arm stroke cycle (one stroke by each arm). Mark. |
2016-02-02 5:07 PM in reply to: 0 |
216 | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by RedCorvette An effective six-beat kick should provide somewhere around 25% of your propulsive force. With all due respect, doing a six-beat kick without deriving some propulsion from it seems like a big waste of energy. I guess my suggestion would be to have a coach take a look to see if there are any easily-identifiable fundamental issues that might help improve the effectiveness of your kick You talk as if there's only one level of intensity for a 6 beat kick. That's simply not true. The 6 beat I use for a 50 sprint is more intense than the one I use for a 200 free which is more intense than the one I use to close out an 800 or 1500 which is more intense than the one I use in an open water swim where the water's a little choppy. As for how much propulsive force comes from the kick and how much from the pull, the question is one of the most perplexing questions in swimming. Experts have hugely different opinions on the answer, varying from almost all comes from the kick to almost none comes from the kick! I could maybe buy the 25% figure for a 50 sprint. At triathlon swim distance speeds? I just don't buy it. I do a LOT of sets of 50's on short rest at 200 race pace in my training. I recently re-tooled my stroke for that race from a 2-beat kick to a moderately intense 6-beat kick. My pace dropped from 32.5 seconds a 50 to 32. That small increase doesn't seem to jive with the notion that 25% of the propulsion is coming from the kick to me. And it's not like I can't kick. I think my kick, as an integral part of an overall stroke, is pretty solid. I'm just not that fast a kicker with kick board. I invite you to view a video of my 50 free from this past summer's Masters Nationals and give me any tips kick tips if you think otherwise. (I'm in the second lane from the bottom). https://youtu.be/CaASnTAKHTw?t=4h38m58s Can you improve your swim by concentrating on kick sets? Sure. But for the vast majority of triathletes, it's the slow path to improvement. For those other than the very few with world-class technique, there's a lot of lower hanging fruit to go after. I tend to be a pragmatist, and think the best way to get better at swimming is to do a lot of actual swimming, in a manner that's as close as possible to how you'll be swimming in the race or races you want to be better at. If there's ever a swim meet where they have 100 yard kick boarding or a triathlon where a kick board is required for the swim, I'll start worrying more about doing kick sets. Otherwise, I'll use the kick board primarily as a warm up and between-set recovery tool, and continue to work on improving my kick as part of my overall stroke. Edited by gary p 2016-02-02 5:08 PM |
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2016-02-02 5:23 PM in reply to: gary p |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by gary p Can you improve your swim by concentrating on kick sets? Sure. But for the vast majority of triathletes, it's the slow path to improvement. For those other than the very few with world-class technique, there's a lot of lower hanging fruit to go after. I tend to be a pragmatist, and think the best way to get better at swimming is to do a lot of actual swimming, in a manner that's as close as possible to how you'll be swimming in the race or races you want to be better at. If there's ever a swim meet where they have 100 yard kick boarding or a triathlon where a kick board is required for the swim, I'll start worrying more about doing kick sets. Otherwise, I'll use the kick board primarily as a warm up and between-set recovery tool, and continue to work on improving my kick as part of my overall stroke. I only quoted part of your post, but agree 100% |
2016-02-02 5:39 PM in reply to: 0 |
216 | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by axteraa Swimming is swimming but you have to admit they have different end goals. In a swim race, you are burning every match you've got with the goal of finishing completely spent. The goal of a tri swim is to finish as quickly as possible without digging yourself into a hole. A strong kick uses a lot of energy. If you can minimize that and it only costs you 30s in your swim time then overall you may be ahead at the end. You have to find the balance of what gets you to the swim finish the fastest vs setting you up for the rest of the race. BTW, I'm not saying don't kick to save your legs, I'm talking overall energy usage. Exactly. And the wet suit issue is not to be ignored. One of the principal benefits of kicking is the lower-body lift it generates. With a wet suit, you have significant lift before you even kick. Thus the frequent assertion by experienced pool swimmers that the kick in triathlon swimming isn't as critical. Edited by gary p 2016-02-02 5:45 PM |
2016-02-02 7:29 PM in reply to: gary p |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by gary p Originally posted by RedCorvette An effective six-beat kick should provide somewhere around 25% of your propulsive force. With all due respect, doing a six-beat kick without deriving some propulsion from it seems like a big waste of energy. I guess my suggestion would be to have a coach take a look to see if there are any easily-identifiable fundamental issues that might help improve the effectiveness of your kick You talk as if there's only one level of intensity for a 6 beat kick. That's simply not true. The 6 beat I use for a 50 sprint is more intense than the one I use for a 200 free which is more intense than the one I use to close out an 800 or 1500 which is more intense than the one I use in an open water swim where the water's a little choppy. As for how much propulsive force comes from the kick and how much from the pull, the question is one of the most perplexing questions in swimming. Experts have hugely different opinions on the answer, varying from almost all comes from the kick to almost none comes from the kick! I could maybe buy the 25% figure for a 50 sprint. At triathlon swim distance speeds? I just don't buy it. I do a LOT of sets of 50's on short rest at 200 race pace in my training. I recently re-tooled my stroke for that race from a 2-beat kick to a moderately intense 6-beat kick. My pace dropped from 32.5 seconds a 50 to 32. That small increase doesn't seem to jive with the notion that 25% of the propulsion is coming from the kick to me. And it's not like I can't kick. I think my kick, as an integral part of an overall stroke, is pretty solid. I'm just not that fast a kicker with kick board. I invite you to view a video of my 50 free from this past summer's Masters Nationals and give me any tips kick tips if you think otherwise. (I'm in the second lane from the bottom). https://youtu.be/CaASnTAKHTw?t=4h38m58sCan you improve your swim by concentrating on kick sets? Sure. But for the vast majority of triathletes, it's the slow path to improvement. For those other than the very few with world-class technique, there's a lot of lower hanging fruit to go after. I tend to be a pragmatist, and think the best way to get better at swimming is to do a lot of actual swimming, in a manner that's as close as possible to how you'll be swimming in the race or races you want to be better at. If there's ever a swim meet where they have 100 yard kick boarding or a triathlon where a kick board is required for the swim, I'll start worrying more about doing kick sets. Otherwise, I'll use the kick board primarily as a warm up and between-set recovery tool, and continue to work on improving my kick as part of my overall stroke. Just to be clear, in my previous posts, I never advocated swimming a full triathlon swim with a 6 kick beat kick; in triathlon it's employed more for tactical reasons. Separate studies by Watkins & Gordon and Hollander indicated that an average of 10-12% increase in propulsion from a six-beat kick, and that while good technique could increase that up that to 27%, poor technique could actually reduce total propulsion by 6%. At the same time studies by Adrian, Singh, and Karpovitch have shown that kicking increases oxygen consumption by a factor of four over just pulling, so again, for middle and longer distances that indicates kicking should be use judiciously. One other advantage of a six-beat kick, if properly timed, is that it helps to fill in the "dead spots" and resultant loss of velocity in the pull stroke. To your point about being "pragmatic", I mentioned previously that my best overall triathlon results have come in years when I focused on the bike. Quite frankly, I'm doing more swimming these days (49K yds in January) than I probably should be to optimize my triathlon performance. But I love swimming and see myself eventually morphing back to just swimming as running takes more of a toll on my 62 year old legs. Good discussion. Mark
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2016-02-02 10:53 PM in reply to: RedCorvette |
216 | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by RedCorvette To your point about being "pragmatic", I mentioned previously that my best overall triathlon results have come in years when I focused on the bike. Quite frankly, I'm doing more swimming these days (49K yds in January) than I probably should be to optimize my triathlon performance. But I love swimming and see myself eventually morphing back to just swimming as running takes more of a toll on my 62 year old legs. Good discussion. Mark
Yeah, I very quickly surmised that to be good at tri was going to require a massive effort on the bike; one that would ultimately be detrimental to my swim goals. So I stuck with my swim routine, added a little biking and running here and there, and am a "recreational" (i.e. slow) rather than competitive triathlete, at least from T1 on. |
2016-02-03 4:49 AM in reply to: gary p |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by gary p Originally posted by RedCorvette To your point about being "pragmatic", I mentioned previously that my best overall triathlon results have come in years when I focused on the bike. Quite frankly, I'm doing more swimming these days (49K yds in January) than I probably should be to optimize my triathlon performance. But I love swimming and see myself eventually morphing back to just swimming as running takes more of a toll on my 62 year old legs. Good discussion. Mark
Yeah, I very quickly surmised that to be good at tri was going to require a massive effort on the bike; one that would ultimately be detrimental to my swim goals. So I stuck with my swim routine, added a little biking and running here and there, and am a "recreational" (i.e. slow) rather than competitive triathlete, at least from T1 on. Mark, interesting stats on the contribution of the kick in the other post Gary, How much do you swim per week ? What kind of effect would it have on your triathlon swim if you scaled it back significantly ? The guys I know say it didn't impact the tri swim but did their masters swimming. A few seconds means little in a tri but everything in a 200m masters event. |
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2016-02-03 2:14 PM in reply to: marcag |
216 | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion Originally posted by marcag Gary, How much do you swim per week ? 10-15k yards, a lot of that at "race pace" (25's @ 100 race pace, 50's @ 200 race pace, 75's @ 400/500 race pace) on short rest (15-20 seconds). What kind of effect would it have on your triathlon swim if you scaled it back significantly ? I could probably maintain my tri swim pace with three 2000-2500 yard workouts a week. The guys I know say it didn't impact the tri swim but did their masters swimming. A few seconds means little in a tri but everything in a 200m masters event. Yeah, that's issue. When I realized how much biking it would take to get good at tri, I had to decide if that was more important than continuing to improve in pool events. I decided it wasn't. For me, it was not only the time the bike would take away from the pool, but the fact that it took 48 hours after a hard ride for my legs to recover enough to be able to successfully complete a satisfactory volume of race pace swim repeats. |
2016-02-03 3:24 PM in reply to: gary p |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Seal vs Sea Lion |
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