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2014-05-03 9:30 PM
in reply to: ritakandel

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
This week I felt back to normal for training. I did my longest ride (to date) of 65 miles today. It is hard to believe we'll have to do another 47 miles... I rode 60 last weekend and I felt good on both rides. My biggest concern going into the Vineman is nutrition. I have been drinking Cytomax and eating PBJ's and peanut butter pretzels. I felt good during both of these rides, but as soon as I stopped riding I was absolutely famished. Is this normal? I know I have to do the math and fix my caloric intake, yet I wanted to get some feedback on this hunger thing. Happy Training!


2014-05-03 10:01 PM
in reply to: ritakandel

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
Lisa good luck on the Prairie Fire Spring Half Marathon tomorrow. I hope you have a great race!
2014-05-03 10:52 PM
in reply to: khaddon

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread

Kate, thanks for the Boston review.  I won't be going next year as my qualifying race is after the 2015 deadline, so that would put me there in 2016.  The good news is that would mean plenty of time for planning, reservations, etc.  I too have aged up since my last marathon, but still will have to get a slight PR to get to Beantown.

Rita, I've been going with a plan of Infinit liquid nutrition and Payday candy bars during training, taking in the Infinit every 15 minutes but substituting 1/3 of a Payday on each hour.  This works great for me during the ride and I don't feel hungry at all, but like you, after long rides once I get off my appetite rapidly returns and I HAVE to eat.  Most of the time the body is calling for carbs, but sometimes it wants a healthy helping of protein as well.  I make a post ride/run recovery shake that consists of 8 oz Almond milk/1 scoop of protein whey/ 2 scoops of Hammer Recoverite/ one banana/1 tbs cocoa powder.  That satisfies the immediate need, but I know that in 30 minutes I'll be hungry again.  My go to place here is Red Robin where they have a bottomless side serving of regular or sweet potato fries.  The servers there know me by now and when they take my initial drink order they tell me the sweet potato fries will be there soon, and they are - well before the entrée arrives!  I found that if I don't pay close attention to the caloric needs I end up without energy pretty quickly and subsequent workouts are much harder.  I use an app on my phone called Lose It to track calories in and exercise and it helps a lot.  Last Friday my caloric need was about 5000 calories and I am sure that if I had not been tracking it, I'd have come up short.  There are plenty of evenings where I have to have extra stuff to top off the tank, but it is really worth it.  OK, I'll get off my soapbox now . . .

2014-05-04 7:52 PM
in reply to: TTom


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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
Rita - nice on the 65. I have the hunger while I am still on the bike. The gels just aren't going to be enough for a whole day. Everything I bring with me, bars, sandwiches, etc get mushy and nasty in the heat. I like the idea of the PayDays... I am still trying to figure out how to carry all this food...I guess this is the thing we have a few months to figure out...Next weekend...3000 open water swim. I am so new to swimming I have to force myself to do these events, and am just happy to finish without freaking out.
2014-05-04 10:57 PM
in reply to: TTom

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
Originally posted by TTom

Kate, thanks for the Boston review.  I won't be going next year as my qualifying race is after the 2015 deadline, so that would put me there in 2016.  The good news is that would mean plenty of time for planning, reservations, etc.  I too have aged up since my last marathon, but still will have to get a slight PR to get to Beantown.

Rita, I've been going with a plan of Infinit liquid nutrition and Payday candy bars during training, taking in the Infinit every 15 minutes but substituting 1/3 of a Payday on each hour.  This works great for me during the ride and I don't feel hungry at all, but like you, after long rides once I get off my appetite rapidly returns and I HAVE to eat.  Most of the time the body is calling for carbs, but sometimes it wants a healthy helping of protein as well.  I make a post ride/run recovery shake that consists of 8 oz Almond milk/1 scoop of protein whey/ 2 scoops of Hammer Recoverite/ one banana/1 tbs cocoa powder.  That satisfies the immediate need, but I know that in 30 minutes I'll be hungry again.  My go to place here is Red Robin where they have a bottomless side serving of regular or sweet potato fries.  The servers there know me by now and when they take my initial drink order they tell me the sweet potato fries will be there soon, and they are - well before the entrée arrives!  I found that if I don't pay close attention to the caloric needs I end up without energy pretty quickly and subsequent workouts are much harder.  I use an app on my phone called Lose It to track calories in and exercise and it helps a lot.  Last Friday my caloric need was about 5000 calories and I am sure that if I had not been tracking it, I'd have come up short.  There are plenty of evenings where I have to have extra stuff to top off the tank, but it is really worth it.  OK, I'll get off my soapbox now . . .




I purchased a payday today. Yummy! I still have some experimenting to do. Thanks for the info Tom.
2014-05-04 11:00 PM
in reply to: khaddon

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
Originally posted by khaddon

Rita - nice on the 65. I have the hunger while I am still on the bike. The gels just aren't going to be enough for a whole day. Everything I bring with me, bars, sandwiches, etc get mushy and nasty in the heat. I like the idea of the PayDays... I am still trying to figure out how to carry all this food...I guess this is the thing we have a few months to figure out...Next weekend...3000 open water swim. I am so new to swimming I have to force myself to do these events, and am just happy to finish without freaking out.


Thanks Kate. I am with you on the food thing, the paydays sound good to me too. I am going to try it next weekend. Good luck on your open water swim, I have a feeling you'll be amazing!


2014-05-04 11:03 PM
in reply to: TTom

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
Originally posted by TTom

Kate, thanks for the Boston review.  I won't be going next year as my qualifying race is after the 2015 deadline, so that would put me there in 2016.  The good news is that would mean plenty of time for planning, reservations, etc.  I too have aged up since my last marathon, but still will have to get a slight PR to get to Beantown.

Rita, I've been going with a plan of Infinit liquid nutrition and Payday candy bars during training, taking in the Infinit every 15 minutes but substituting 1/3 of a Payday on each hour.  This works great for me during the ride and I don't feel hungry at all, but like you, after long rides once I get off my appetite rapidly returns and I HAVE to eat.  Most of the time the body is calling for carbs, but sometimes it wants a healthy helping of protein as well.  I make a post ride/run recovery shake that consists of 8 oz Almond milk/1 scoop of protein whey/ 2 scoops of Hammer Recoverite/ one banana/1 tbs cocoa powder.  That satisfies the immediate need, but I know that in 30 minutes I'll be hungry again.  My go to place here is Red Robin where they have a bottomless side serving of regular or sweet potato fries.  The servers there know me by now and when they take my initial drink order they tell me the sweet potato fries will be there soon, and they are - well before the entrée arrives!  I found that if I don't pay close attention to the caloric needs I end up without energy pretty quickly and subsequent workouts are much harder.  I use an app on my phone called Lose It to track calories in and exercise and it helps a lot.  Last Friday my caloric need was about 5000 calories and I am sure that if I had not been tracking it, I'd have come up short.  There are plenty of evenings where I have to have extra stuff to top off the tank, but it is really worth it.  OK, I'll get off my soapbox now . . .




I have a similar protein drink after my workouts and have been craving protein after my long rides. I still have to do my homework, but I like your payday concept.
2014-05-05 6:03 PM
in reply to: ritakandel

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
I think the payday is a good idea. I would prefer a Snickers, but I don't know how to keep it cold in the heat. I do two PBJs on my long rides, and while they are mushy, they don't upset my stomach. That two bananas, and gels get me through about 80 miles of riding on long day. Hopefully that will keep me going from bonking on the run.

I am doing a half in four weeks, and will be using that nutrition formula. It is usually a pretty hot race for the half, and hope I don't run into any problem on the run with the heat.
2014-05-06 9:39 AM
in reply to: Happyinmarin

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
Originally posted by Happyinmarin

I think the payday is a good idea. I would prefer a Snickers, but I don't know how to keep it cold in the heat. I do two PBJs on my long rides, and while they are mushy, they don't upset my stomach. That two bananas, and gels get me through about 80 miles of riding on long day. Hopefully that will keep me going from bonking on the run.

I am doing a half in four weeks, and will be using that nutrition formula. It is usually a pretty hot race for the half, and hope I don't run into any problem on the run with the heat.


I followed TTom's advice to give Infinit a try and it has been awesome. I have used it in training and I used both the bike and run custom formulas at Ironman 70.3 St. George last Saturday and it was perfect. I never got sick of the flavors and it kept me fueled and controlled my hunger. I am going to try an Infinit only fueling strategy as I build up to the Vineman and see if I can get away with that. It would be so nice to only have to worry about drinking and not having to mess around with different nutrition options. At my Ironman last year (my first) I had a whole bunch of options and my brain was so fried that I screwed it all up and ended up bonking on the run. Hopefully this goes better.
2014-05-08 10:44 PM
in reply to: Lock_N_Load

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread

So my training plan is ramping up, moving from solidifying an aerobic base and now kicking that aspect up a notch while also building strength.  Most workouts thus far have been Z1/Z2 with the emphasis on good form.  Based on the Maffetone training I'd done in the past, I tried to keep things really at the z1.9 level, but now workouts are solid Z2 with forays into Z3 for intervals.  It has been a real education on how much more work it is to gain a little in speed!  Today was a two and a half hour ride on a course of flats and rolling hills and I was amazed at the difference in RPE to stay in the mid z2 range.  I feel like I've done my work in getting the cardiovascular system in good working order, but now the legs are going to have to catch up!  I may have to go back to doing TrainerRoad for my shorter rides to build strength and the longer ride to keep the endurance aspect in good shape.  Anyone else got this type of thing going on?

 

2014-05-09 9:46 AM
in reply to: TTom

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
Tom,

I know what you are saying. I have been feeling that way for the past two weeks on my runs, and on my speed days with swims. I have the cardio endurance to go long and slow, now I am working on getting the strength. This week was very telling with the speed workouts with the swim. On my run this week I noticed that when I do strides, I can hold them for a longer duration, which has helped on my times. For the bike, doing intervals have helped greatly, but there is certainly a jump in RPE.

My thought is moving from Z1-Z2/3 is going to correlate to a big jump in work to keep up.

Dan



Originally posted by TTom

So my training plan is ramping up, moving from solidifying an aerobic base and now kicking that aspect up a notch while also building strength.  Most workouts thus far have been Z1/Z2 with the emphasis on good form.  Based on the Maffetone training I'd done in the past, I tried to keep things really at the z1.9 level, but now workouts are solid Z2 with forays into Z3 for intervals.  It has been a real education on how much more work it is to gain a little in speed!  Today was a two and a half hour ride on a course of flats and rolling hills and I was amazed at the difference in RPE to stay in the mid z2 range.  I feel like I've done my work in getting the cardiovascular system in good working order, but now the legs are going to have to catch up!  I may have to go back to doing TrainerRoad for my shorter rides to build strength and the longer ride to keep the endurance aspect in good shape.  Anyone else got this type of thing going on?

 




2014-05-09 9:25 PM
in reply to: TTom


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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
I too am venturing into the speed training zones. I do my interval rides on the trainer and thus far have been unable to get to Z3/4. At the upper end of Z2 my legs are burning. I am hoping this will improve, but I figure if it's so hard I want to stop it has got to be helping.

How did St George go? The course looks beautiful, but the bike course seems intimidating for a newbie rider like myself.

Really looking forward to eating Paydays this weekend! It makes 4 hours on a bike something to look forward to. Haha. Hope weekend training goes well.

Kate

2014-05-10 12:28 AM
in reply to: khaddon

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
I agree Kate, right now it can be tough to hit the higher zones, but with the right motivation . . . On Thursday's ride I passed a rider who was going just a bit slower than me with a "Good morning, pass ing on your left", and didn't think anything of it. A minute later I turned to check for any traffic and she was right on my wheel. Don't know why that got me going but ended up pushing it a bit - and she stuck to me like glue. Came up to a stop sign and she came up to me and said thanks for the fun ride. Looked at the data when I got home and we were cruising on the flats at 23.4 mph and my hr peaked at z3.7! Had I tried to do that same thing just by myself, it would have been a real effort, but under those conditions it was just plain fun.
2014-05-10 5:37 PM
in reply to: TTom

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
Originally posted by TTom

I agree Kate, right now it can be tough to hit the higher zones, but with the right motivation . . . On Thursday's ride I passed a rider who was going just a bit slower than me with a "Good morning, pass ing on your left", and didn't think anything of it. A minute later I turned to check for any traffic and she was right on my wheel. Don't know why that got me going but ended up pushing it a bit - and she stuck to me like glue. Came up to a stop sign and she came up to me and said thanks for the fun ride. Looked at the data when I got home and we were cruising on the flats at 23.4 mph and my hr peaked at z3.7! Had I tried to do that same thing just by myself, it would have been a real effort, but under those conditions it was just plain fun.


You have the same kind of motivation as I do and it does make it more enjoyable.
2014-05-10 5:56 PM
in reply to: ritakandel

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
I am having challenges with speed right now too. I haven't figured out my zones yet, so I am not using them and can't contribute to that aspect of the conversation.

I am looking for some perspectives and feedback...
I am struggling with the hills. The bike I am riding for the past 5 months has a standard 53/39 and 12-25. I am contemplating on changing to a compact 50/34. ( I don't even know if I can afford it). I think I do better at spinning?. I always wish I had more gears on the hills, but I am afraid the effort will be so much more with a 50/34. I was in good condition for spinning on my other cheapo bike and was actually going faster on the hills, however the effort was more intense. On this new (to me - 11 years old) bike, the effort overall seams easier, but when it comes to the hills everyone flys by me. I would love the hills to be easier and faster, but I don't want to lose the other benefits and I am a afraid I have lost some of my spinning cardio over the past 5 months. Any thoughts? Even on what I can do so I can build my ability to work my 53/39 better? Thanks guys!
2014-05-10 7:58 PM
in reply to: ritakandel

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
Originally posted by ritakandelI am having challenges with speed right now too. I haven't figured out my zones yet, so I am not using them and can't contribute to that aspect of the conversation.I am looking for some perspectives and feedback...I am struggling with the hills. The bike I am riding for the past 5 months has a standard 53/39 and 12-25. I am contemplating on changing to a compact 50/34. ( I don't even know if I can afford it). I think I do better at spinning?. I always wish I had more gears on the hills, but I am afraid the effort will be so much more with a 50/34. I was in good condition for spinning on my other cheapo bike and was actually going faster on the hills, however the effort was more intense. On this new (to me - 11 years old) bike, the effort overall seams easier, but when it comes to the hills everyone flys by me. I would love the hills to be easier and faster, but I don't want to lose the other benefits and I am a afraid I have lost some of my spinning cardio over the past 5 months. Any thoughts? Even on what I can do so I can build my ability to work my 53/39 better? Thanks guys!
Rita, who wouldn't want the hills to be easier and faster :-). if my understanding is right a compact crank won't make you any faster on the hills, it'll just allow you to spin up them with less effort. You could accomplish that also by getting a 12-28 cassette on your rear wheel. I'm not sure how the cost compares between the two options, and there could be a need for a new chain and derailleur adjustment. It would be worth it to take your bike to your local bike shop and discuss it with them. And there is that oft-repeated school that says "the only way to get better at climbing hills is to climb more hills"


2014-05-12 9:52 PM
in reply to: TTom

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread

He who created hill repeats should be forced to run them for all eternity.  Plan today called for a 50 minute run that included hill repeats - 4 x 2 minutes.  Turns out I have a perfect hill for this at a local park and it looked like this:  Hill Repeats (Note, I was using imageshack for images, but they've done away with their free service.  Tried using Flickr here, but can't get the actual image to show up on the post.  Any suggestions for a free site that works, or how to make Flickr work?)Actually went well and was a bit of a confidence booster after reading some race reports and comments about the hills on the course.  Lots of training miles left to build up the rolling hills endurance!

Looks like I'm going to be able to break away and ride the course again this week.  Going to do 70 miles which will start in Guernville at T1 and do the first bike loop then the run course then back to T1.  I'll be able to see if they've done any repaving on the beginning of Westside road and will report back.  Only downside is that it is supposed to hit 90 degrees that day.  Let's hope race day is a bit cooler . . .

 

2014-05-13 8:55 AM
in reply to: TTom


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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
Those hills look like fun, and in a park so nice on your knees! You are lucky to have a place nearby to do the hills. I think I will be winging it on the run hills, just no time to drive somewhere to run hills.

I was cursing the long bike ride this weekend, a nine mile climb into the wind...but there really was no alternative but to keep going as I was in the middle of nowhere. Even the payday couldn't help make that fun. A flat, a bee sting...ugh! Looking forward to hearing about the course.

Rita - no idea what any of that bike stuff means. I am the sucker who walks into the shop and buys whatever they tell me. I did learn how to change a flat, but that is where I stop. Good luck.

Kate
2014-05-13 10:16 AM
in reply to: khaddon

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
Hills? I just finished St. George Ironman 70.3 on May 3rd. I think that's all the hillwork I will need for about one year. Ouch....
2014-05-13 2:19 PM
in reply to: Lock_N_Load

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
Originally posted by Lock_N_LoadHills? I just finished St. George Ironman 70.3 on May 3rd. I think that's all the hillwork I will need for about one year. Ouch....
Jose, how did St George go? That's supposed to be a REALLY tough course!
2014-05-13 6:37 PM
in reply to: TTom

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
Originally posted by TTom

Originally posted by Lock_N_LoadHills? I just finished St. George Ironman 70.3 on May 3rd. I think that's all the hillwork I will need for about one year. Ouch....
Jose, how did St George go? That's supposed to be a REALLY tough course!


This is the 2nd year I do it. My PR in a local and mostly flat HIM is 5:34. On this course I pulled a 6:01 last year and I was happy to finish! I was so upset that I did not go sub six that I decided to come back this year. Well, the wind held off (mostly) and the day was beautiful but since I start a full 45 minutes after the Pros the run was deathly hot. I swear I thought I was going to have heat stroke.

The swim is in beautiful Sand Hollow reservoir. The scenery is just incredible and as long as the winds hold off the swim is cold (60 degrees this year, about 58-59 last year) but mostly easy. The bike is all up or down but it isn't that terrible if you have trained for hills. Snow Canyon, starting at mile 40, is the worst part with 6-7% grades for extended distances. That and the heat had many walking their bikes. However Snow Canyon is also visually breathtaking. THEN comes the most difficult run in all of the 70.3 circuit (from what I hear). It is all up and down with extended perods as steep as Snow Canyon. It is brutal.

The awesome part is the finish. The entire town comes out to the fnish line to welcome you in and after a tough course like that one truly feels accomplished. So, my 5:53 was not much better than my 6:01 but am very happy about it. I felt I gave it my all and I got it under six!

I really recommend this race. It is the most organized race aside from the Boston Marathon that I have participated in. Also, the Pro field that shows up is amazing. I was able to see Andy Potts kick butt on the swim and I saw Brent McMahon, Tim Don, and Jan Frodeno battle it out on the run. I also got to see how far back Meredith Kessler really was before she turned on the jets and took it again on the run. The race is like mini-Kona, including the lava fields in Snow Canyon!

I will be doing it again next year.


2014-05-15 8:22 AM
in reply to: Lock_N_Load


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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
Nice! It sure sounds like a challenge. That has got to make you feel pretty confident for Vineman as well.
2014-05-15 7:52 PM
in reply to: khaddon

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread

Rode the course from Guerneville around the first loop, then on the run course, then back to Guerneville, 70 miles with my training partner.  Was disappointed to find that they had done no repaving of Westside road on the early part of it, but they have done some further down which is really nice.  They also repaired what was a REALLY bad road to bridge transition on Chalk Hill road (caused an accident in the 70.3 last year).  Glad I rode the run course to get a feel for it.  Starts out relatively flat but the hills they show in the elevation map do deserve respect.  You really do need to do at least some hill training for this course.  There are lots of trees there that provided shade when we rode it at about 11:15, so hope that holds up for the later runs.

Swim area.  OK, don't panic but river is low as expected.  You can see where the dam will be put in place for the race, so it should be OK.  But just to give you a taste of what the area looks like, here are some photos.  The first was taken at 7:00, so pretty close to what it will look like at starting time in July.  The second is looking back at the start area and the third is an upstream shot that shows where the turn around buoy will be located:

Swim Start

Swim upstream

Now if I could just figure out how to hold the phone so the finger doesn't appear in the shot . . .

2014-05-15 11:29 PM
in reply to: TTom

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread

When I did the Vineman 70.3 last year, I found these videos that preview the course very well.  There are 4 of them, with the bike being split into two separate videos. http://viewtherace.com/california/ironman-vineman

Notes on the bike course videos:  They are for the 70.3, but will really cover 90% of the 140.6 course, specifically the full first loop.  The second loop portion not shown is (I'm estimating) about 8 miles of rolling hills.  A good portion on that is on a section that has been repaved and is right now smooth as glass, with a fantastic downhill portion that can be fast.

Notes on the swim course video:   My understanding is that the swim is the same, just 2 laps.

Notes on the run course.  Ignore everything past mile 4 as that is the approximate turnaround point for the 3-lap run.

 

 

2014-05-16 8:37 AM
in reply to: TTom

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Subject: RE: Full Vineman 2014 Triathlon : Official Thread
On youtube they have the full Vineman course on video. Here are the links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-7wQb2_5nM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mag_Mk0xQwY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SP4YhD09SQ

Thanks for the pictures of the swim area!

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