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% of FTP for a Sprint
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 2016-03-27 5:03 PM |
 1502   Katy, Texas |  Subject: % of FTP for a SprintWhat is the rule of thumb of for pacing a sprint based off of FTP? It's a 300m pool swim, 14 mile bike, 3 mile run (so a bit short of a true sprint). P.S. first race in like 5 months. Not doing a full taper, but taking the training back a bit this week, so expect lots of posts as nervous energy combines with my mind obsessing over the race.  |
| 2016-03-27 5:09 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Coach 9167    Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint 105%, 105%, 105% |
| 2016-03-27 5:20 PM in reply to: AdventureBear |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by AdventureBear 105%, 105%, 105% Wouldn't that be the average power from the 20 minute test? I don't know if I could run after that level of effort. |
| 2016-03-27 5:23 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by AdventureBear 105%, 105%, 105% Wouldn't that be the average power from the 20 minute test? I don't know if I could run after that level of effort. yes it would and I certainly couldn't :-) I'd try just under 100% Edited by marcag 2016-03-27 5:27 PM |
| 2016-03-27 5:28 PM in reply to: 0 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by AdventureBear 105%, 105%, 105% Wouldn't that be the average power from the 20 minute test? I don't know if I could run after that level of effort. Maybe, everyones power curve is a little bit different. For 20minutes I often use about 93% of the effort. But it should still take you less than an hour, (an hour would be 100% of your FTP). I don't know what your race experience is, or what your strengths are, so it's a hard question to answer. You can certainly use a lower effort, but I dont think there is a rule of thumb the same way that people often quote %ages for half-iron or iron distance races. How much do you think you'd have to knock it back to be able to run a 5k at any speed? How about at your full 5k potential? Your ideal power is somewhere in between those two. I think you could run after a 20 minute threshold test, just not very fast. Edited by AdventureBear 2016-03-27 5:31 PM |
| 2016-03-27 5:44 PM in reply to: 0 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint For me, when I was seriously racing, I would try to hold about 97% of FTP. I would do this by looking down and hoping to see my FTP. Too high, back off a little. Too low, work a bit harder. With turns and the last km into T2, I'd usually be around 95-97%. ETA - this would allow me to run at or just a touch faster than open 10k pace. Shane Edited by gsmacleod 2016-03-27 5:45 PM |
| 2016-03-27 6:02 PM in reply to: 3mar |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Thanks guys. My last 20 minute test was February 9th and my ave was 256, so I have been basing my training off of an FTP of 243. Now, the last two weeks the workouts have been challenging but not painfully hard. So I'm thinking that my FTP has increased a bit. This will be my first race with power, so it's going to be a learning experience. It's flat and has very limited turns (it's a big square) so maybe I'll just try to stay at 240. |
| 2016-03-27 6:02 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint i would pace the bike, for the frist half don't go over 100% of ftp, second half don't go under. the swim is all out, and the run i would start at 10k open pace and attempt to neg split |
| 2016-03-27 6:35 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by dmiller5 i would pace the bike, for the frist half don't go over 100% of ftp, second half don't go under. the swim is all out, and the run i would start at 10k open pace and attempt to neg split I like that strategy, but the only problem is I have absolutely no idea what my open 10k pace would be now. I haven't done much of any speed work this winter due to the bike focus. I'd hazard a guess that my 10k pace would be around 6:45, but I hit 7:00 on my 2-3 mile run off my long rides without much issue, so I don't know. I was just thinking, "run like hell" would be my strategy at that point in the race. |
| 2016-03-27 8:44 PM in reply to: marcag |
| Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar yes it would and I certainly couldn't :-) I'd try just under 100% Originally posted by AdventureBear 105%, 105%, 105% Wouldn't that be the average power from the 20 minute test? I don't know if I could run after that level of effort. Especially since a 14 mile bike likely means your riding for 35 minutes if your averaging 25 mph. Duplicating your 20' power, for 35', with a short swim and a 3 mile run after usually won't end well for most mere mortals. |
| 2016-03-27 9:44 PM in reply to: Jason N |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar yes it would and I certainly couldn't :-) I'd try just under 100% Originally posted by AdventureBear 105%, 105%, 105% Wouldn't that be the average power from the 20 minute test? I don't know if I could run after that level of effort. Especially since a 14 mile bike likely means your riding for 35 minutes if your averaging 25 mph. Duplicating your 20' power, for 35', with a short swim and a 3 mile run after usually won't end well for most mere mortals. Yeah, I don't see that happening either. |
| 2016-03-27 10:03 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Turn computer on, put tape over it, ride your bike like hell, run fast off. Then take the data and add it with a 3 or 5' test, plug it in here....http://www.cyclingpowerlab.com/MonodCriticalPower.aspx. Now you have your critical power set based on actual performance metrics. |
| 2016-03-27 10:39 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by dmiller5 I like that strategy, but the only problem is I have absolutely no idea what my open 10k pace would be now. I haven't done much of any speed work this winter due to the bike focus. I'd hazard a guess that my 10k pace would be around 6:45, but I hit 7:00 on my 2-3 mile run off my long rides without much issue, so I don't know. I was just thinking, "run like hell" would be my strategy at that point in the race. i would pace the bike, for the frist half don't go over 100% of ftp, second half don't go under. the swim is all out, and the run i would start at 10k open pace and attempt to neg split I don't know how much running you've been doing, but a big bike focus will absolutely help your run in a triathlon, providing you've been keeping up at least some fair mileage. It's lost on most, but big bike fitness is imperative for a really good triathlon run. You'll likely see a big difference in your run off the bike because of your bike focus.....don't be afraid to dig really deep there. From what I've read of your background I would put some people in a hole with your swim (as much as you can with only 300, but you can put at least a minute on 90% of the field, or more, in an AG race), bike about 95-97%, and then build, build, build on the run. You'll likely surprise yourself on your run so leave SOMETHING from your bike.. Edited by Left Brain 2016-03-27 10:44 PM |
| 2016-03-28 8:34 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by dmiller5 I like that strategy, but the only problem is I have absolutely no idea what my open 10k pace would be now. I haven't done much of any speed work this winter due to the bike focus. I'd hazard a guess that my 10k pace would be around 6:45, but I hit 7:00 on my 2-3 mile run off my long rides without much issue, so I don't know. I was just thinking, "run like hell" would be my strategy at that point in the race. i would pace the bike, for the frist half don't go over 100% of ftp, second half don't go under. the swim is all out, and the run i would start at 10k open pace and attempt to neg split I don't know how much running you've been doing, but a big bike focus will absolutely help your run in a triathlon, providing you've been keeping up at least some fair mileage. It's lost on most, but big bike fitness is imperative for a really good triathlon run. You'll likely see a big difference in your run off the bike because of your bike focus.....don't be afraid to dig really deep there. From what I've read of your background I would put some people in a hole with your swim (as much as you can with only 300, but you can put at least a minute on 90% of the field, or more, in an AG race), bike about 95-97%, and then build, build, build on the run. You'll likely surprise yourself on your run so leave SOMETHING from your bike.. For the first part of the bike focus, I was at around 18-20 MPW running, but the past 6 weeks have all been between 23-25 MPW. So not a ton of miles, but I think quite a bit for a bike focus. Almost exclusively Z1/Z2 runs though, so little to no speed work, just a couple of times I let myself go nuts (you can only run slow so much before you lose it). On those runs, I was really surprised how easy/sustainable a 7:00 pace was, but that could have just been adrenaline from finally letting myself run. I have no idea what will happen sub 7 as I have spent zero time there. Should be interesting. I think I'm just going to have to do the run on feel. Manage the first mile, then let loose and hold on. |
| 2016-03-28 8:41 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by 3mar For the first part of the bike focus, I was at around 18-20 MPW running, but the past 6 weeks have all been between 23-25 MPW. So not a ton of miles, but I think quite a bit for a bike focus. Almost exclusively Z1/Z2 runs though, so little to no speed work, just a couple of times I let myself go nuts (you can only run slow so much before you lose it). On those runs, I was really surprised how easy/sustainable a 7:00 pace was, but that could have just been adrenaline from finally letting myself run. I have no idea what will happen sub 7 as I have spent zero time there. Should be interesting. I think I'm just going to have to do the run on feel. Manage the first mile, then let loose and hold on. Fast first mile, hang on for the second and hammer the third. Shane |
| 2016-03-28 9:05 AM in reply to: brigby1 |
Extreme Veteran 2261 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar yes it would and I certainly couldn't :-) I'd try just under 100% Originally posted by AdventureBear 105%, 105%, 105% Wouldn't that be the average power from the 20 minute test? I don't know if I could run after that level of effort. Especially since a 14 mile bike likely means your riding for 35 minutes if your averaging 25 mph. Duplicating your 20' power, for 35', with a short swim and a 3 mile run after usually won't end well for most mere mortals. Yeah, I don't see that happening either. I've heard the 105% figure before, but there's no way that I could hold 105% for a sprint tri and be able to run the 5k at a competitive pace. |
| 2016-03-28 9:35 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Veteran 276 | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by 3mar For the first part of the bike focus, I was at around 18-20 MPW running, but the past 6 weeks have all been between 23-25 MPW. So not a ton of miles, but I think quite a bit for a bike focus. Almost exclusively Z1/Z2 runs though, so little to no speed work, just a couple of times I let myself go nuts (you can only run slow so much before you lose it). On those runs, I was really surprised how easy/sustainable a 7:00 pace was, but that could have just been adrenaline from finally letting myself run. I have no idea what will happen sub 7 as I have spent zero time there. Should be interesting. I think I'm just going to have to do the run on feel. Manage the first mile, then let loose and hold on. Fast first mile, hang on for the second and hammer the third. Shane I'd go with this strategy on the run as well. I typically would have to dial it WAY back at the beginning of a run to hold certain mm pace, but in a race I will come off the bike at whatever pace my legs dictate and then evaluate at mile 1. Especially in a sprint you can then play the "it's only two miles" game with your body and mind to force it to the end. I wouldn't discount your Z1/Z2 running and bike focus actually giving you better run fitness than you'd expect. I'd wager that those runs at 7:00 that felt great were more fitness than adrenaline, especially since it was "just" a training run. |
| 2016-03-28 10:27 AM in reply to: AdventureBear |
| 89 | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by AdventureBear 105%, 105%, 105% this one goes to 11  Most people I know don't really think about FTP for sprints. All out is all out. FTP is good, but day to day you can have variances. Would be a shame to finish that race and feel like you left something on the table because you didn't want to go over a certain percentage. |
| 2016-03-28 10:33 AM in reply to: msteiner |
| 89 | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by msteiner Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar yes it would and I certainly couldn't :-) I'd try just under 100% Originally posted by AdventureBear 105%, 105%, 105% Wouldn't that be the average power from the 20 minute test? I don't know if I could run after that level of effort. Especially since a 14 mile bike likely means your riding for 35 minutes if your averaging 25 mph. Duplicating your 20' power, for 35', with a short swim and a 3 mile run after usually won't end well for most mere mortals. Yeah, I don't see that happening either. I've heard the 105% figure before, but there's no way that I could hold 105% for a sprint tri and be able to run the 5k at a competitive pace. That's the great thing about being a crappy runner who can't run at a competitive pace, I don't have to worry about that. It's just all out on the swim, aller outer on the bike, dear-god-let-me-hold-on on the run |
| 2016-03-28 10:36 AM in reply to: davejustdave |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by davejustdave Originally posted by AdventureBear 105%, 105%, 105% this one goes to 11 Most people I know don't really think about FTP for sprints. All out is all out. FTP is good, but day to day you can have variances. Would be a shame to finish that race and feel like you left something on the table because you didn't want to go over a certain percentage. You are certainly going hard but nobody races a sprint all out. Shane |
| 2016-03-28 10:39 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by davejustdave You are certainly going hard but nobody races a sprint all out. Shane Originally posted by AdventureBear 105%, 105%, 105% this one goes to 11 Most people I know don't really think about FTP for sprints. All out is all out. FTP is good, but day to day you can have variances. Would be a shame to finish that race and feel like you left something on the table because you didn't want to go over a certain percentage. Thank you!! Geez
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| 2016-03-28 11:01 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
| 89 | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint sigh so you don't race a sprint as fast as you can? A sprint is a SPRIIINNNNT. If you are doing it to be a competitor, not a completitor. It's about MAX effort, not sustained effort for a whole day. Perspective.... we are talking about an effort of +/- 1 hr: 3:15 swim, 35 min bike, 21 min r plus transitions, not a 5 hr HIM . hence the term "sprint" maybe I just approach it different, but I personally have it just about as wound out as possible.. Short distance is relative. In triathlon, 14 miles is very short, 300 yards or meters is insanely short, and 3 miles is pretty darn short too. So, sorry, I didn't differentiate between my 25 yard swim, 400 yard bike, 100 yard run pace, but we are talking 100% vs ninety..what 7? 8? I thought ST was the semantics forum. |
| 2016-03-28 11:03 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Shane....you're the coach. But, even if I'm not all-out in a sprint, I have no idea where I could go harder (and still finish w/out stopping). I think this topic is interesting, but I have no concept of holding back, during a sprint (or 5 or 10K). The only pacing I do is asking myself if I can go any harder and not have to stop (before the finish line). Maybe I could go faster if I didn't redline the whole way? My last sprint was a few weeks ago. I haven't looked at my HR data (Again....it was a sprint!), but I felt redlined the whole way (once I was out of the water). I think my time was just over 59'. |
| 2016-03-28 11:13 AM in reply to: nc452010 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by nc452010 Shane....you're the coach. But, even if I'm not all-out in a sprint, I have no idea where I could go harder (and still finish w/out stopping). I think this topic is interesting, but I have no concept of holding back, during a sprint (or 5 or 10K). The only pacing I do is asking myself if I can go any harder and not have to stop (before the finish line). Maybe I could go faster if I didn't redline the whole way? My last sprint was a few weeks ago. I haven't looked at my HR data (Again....it was a sprint!), but I felt redlined the whole way (once I was out of the water). I think my time was just over 59'. Again, you're going hard, but not all out. It is a hard aerobic pace in a sprint triathlon - not that it should be comfortable or that you think you clearly go faster but you are not going as fast as you can (even for the distance of the individual leg). Shane |
| 2016-03-28 11:18 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Well......no. I'm not going as fast as I can for the distance of the individual leg. I'm going as fast as I can for the distance of the individual leg..........considering there are two other legs. I'm not writing this to argue with you. We can certainly disagree, and like I said....you're the coach. |
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