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% of FTP for a Sprint (Page 10)
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 2016-04-13 12:42 PM in reply to: AdventureBear |
 Subject: RE: % of FTP for a SprintOriginally posted by AdventureBear Why is it you don't want to test again due to a race in May? You've improved based on that last "fun" workout. I'd suggest taking a 2-3 day recovery and do another 20' test and see what you can produce and get more accurate numbers. "Testing is training" so just sub for a threshold day. Hmm...then go fun do a 10 min brick and see how that feels. Or you could just do the threshold day adjusting for FTP given the power you would target for the 20' test. Testing is training, but training is also testing. Every single power workout you do is a test of fitness and should be viewed as a valid data point just like a test is. Unless you are targeting a 20ish minute time trial, I think 20' tests are vastly overrated. |
| 2016-04-13 1:00 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Extreme Veteran  5722   | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by AdventureBear Why is it you don't want to test again due to a race in May? You've improved based on that last "fun" workout. I'd suggest taking a 2-3 day recovery and do another 20' test and see what you can produce and get more accurate numbers. "Testing is training" so just sub for a threshold day. Hmm...then go fun do a 10 min brick and see how that feels. Or you could just do the threshold day adjusting for FTP given the power you would target for the 20' test. Testing is training, but training is also testing. Every single power workout you do is a test of fitness and should be viewed as a valid data point just like a test is. Unless you are targeting a 20ish minute time trial, I think 20' tests are vastly overrated. You can absolutely get an idea of CP by workouts, but it requires specific workouts and experience which a lot of newbies don't have. |
| 2016-04-13 1:36 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Jason N You can absolutely get an idea of CP by workouts, but it requires specific workouts and experience which a lot of newbies don't have. Originally posted by AdventureBear Why is it you don't want to test again due to a race in May? You've improved based on that last "fun" workout. I'd suggest taking a 2-3 day recovery and do another 20' test and see what you can produce and get more accurate numbers. "Testing is training" so just sub for a threshold day. Hmm...then go fun do a 10 min brick and see how that feels. Or you could just do the threshold day adjusting for FTP given the power you would target for the 20' test. Testing is training, but training is also testing. Every single power workout you do is a test of fitness and should be viewed as a valid data point just like a test is. Unless you are targeting a 20ish minute time trial, I think 20' tests are vastly overrated. True, but I am also one who believes knowing your exact CP at any given time is also highly overrated unless you're targeting a max 1 hour effort race or time trial. You don't need a test to know you can bump up future workout targets. Shooting too high or low on a future workout gives you information in the exact same way shooting too high or low on your next 20' test will. The more you do it, both adjusting future workouts and testing, the better you get at it. It is a learning process, but it's not to say testing is required to figure it out whether or not you are new to power. At least in my opinion...for whatever that's worth... Edited by Jason N 2016-04-13 1:37 PM |
| 2016-04-13 3:47 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by Jason N True, but I am also one who believes knowing your exact CP at any given time is also highly overrated unless you're targeting a max 1 hour effort race or time trial. I guess that depends on how you define "exact". Within 1%, no, not required. But if off 10%, that's way too much. IMO. But it all depends what you use your CP for. It's a lot more valuable than just pacing 1hr efforts. |
| 2016-04-13 4:10 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Coach 9167   Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by AdventureBear Why is it you don't want to test again due to a race in May? You've improved based on that last "fun" workout. I'd suggest taking a 2-3 day recovery and do another 20' test and see what you can produce and get more accurate numbers. "Testing is training" so just sub for a threshold day. Hmm...then go fun do a 10 min brick and see how that feels. Or you could just do the threshold day adjusting for FTP given the power you would target for the 20' test. Testing is training, but training is also testing. Every single power workout you do is a test of fitness and should be viewed as a valid data point just like a test is. Unless you are targeting a 20ish minute time trial, I think 20' tests are vastly overrated. Yeah, no disagreement. I'm not trying to be argumentative but the OP seems to be reluctatant to test and I'm wondering why. If he's worried about spending too much energy doing a test, he's also going to be concerned about spending too much energy doing a 20' effort with a raised power target. Every ride or workout you do informs something about your FTP...i don't often hae athletes test if they are deep in race season, but only because we are getting good data from criteriums or road races or "freindly" time trials or group rides with faster people...we just keep bumping the targets as we go. Tests are boring. I'm just standing here trying to make some helpful suggestions. |
| 2016-04-13 4:10 PM in reply to: Jason N |
1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Jason N You can absolutely get an idea of CP by workouts, but it requires specific workouts and experience which a lot of newbies don't have. Originally posted by AdventureBear Why is it you don't want to test again due to a race in May? You've improved based on that last "fun" workout. I'd suggest taking a 2-3 day recovery and do another 20' test and see what you can produce and get more accurate numbers. "Testing is training" so just sub for a threshold day. Hmm...then go fun do a 10 min brick and see how that feels. Or you could just do the threshold day adjusting for FTP given the power you would target for the 20' test. Testing is training, but training is also testing. Every single power workout you do is a test of fitness and should be viewed as a valid data point just like a test is. Unless you are targeting a 20ish minute time trial, I think 20' tests are vastly overrated. True, but I am also one who believes knowing your exact CP at any given time is also highly overrated unless you're targeting a max 1 hour effort race or time trial. You don't need a test to know you can bump up future workout targets. Shooting too high or low on a future workout gives you information in the exact same way shooting too high or low on your next 20' test will. The more you do it, both adjusting future workouts and testing, the better you get at it. It is a learning process, but it's not to say testing is required to figure it out whether or not you are new to power. At least in my opinion...for whatever that's worth... If a training program is based on a 20 minute test, then it is the only test applicable to that training plan. That is why I'm doing it. Also, when comparing to previous tests to see improvement, a 20 minute test is the only thing applicable because that's what I did previously. So, to me, a 60 minute test is kind of pointless. The only thing I could see using it for would be bragging rights (that was meant to be ambiguous bragging rights...certainly not mine, maybe someday, but not right now) or for pacing, but as we can see by this thread, that's not exactly an exact science either. So for the purposes I need it for, the 20 minute test is the only applicable test. Looking back it did end up holding true that a retest was necessary. Although you guys said it didn't look like there was a change in FTP from the previous workouts posted, Sean made the point that the VO2 intervals weren't getting me anywhere near my max HR. And that was with me going higher than the plan said. If I had an accurate FTP, then those intervals would have been at a power level that would have got me to high 160's. That tells me that it was off and a retest needed. I'm not acting like I'm smart enough to have gotten this off the bat, it is all retrospective. I do pride my self in my 20-20 hindsight.  |
| 2016-04-13 4:13 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by 3mar I'm not acting like I'm smart enough to have gotten this off the bat, it is all retrospective. I do pride my self in my 20-20 hindsight. lol...well not everyone can be good even in hindsight! It's alll a learning pathway, and it should be fun or why do it at all. |
| 2016-04-13 4:24 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Jason N You can absolutely get an idea of CP by workouts, but it requires specific workouts and experience which a lot of newbies don't have. Originally posted by AdventureBear Why is it you don't want to test again due to a race in May? You've improved based on that last "fun" workout. I'd suggest taking a 2-3 day recovery and do another 20' test and see what you can produce and get more accurate numbers. "Testing is training" so just sub for a threshold day. Hmm...then go fun do a 10 min brick and see how that feels. Or you could just do the threshold day adjusting for FTP given the power you would target for the 20' test. Testing is training, but training is also testing. Every single power workout you do is a test of fitness and should be viewed as a valid data point just like a test is. Unless you are targeting a 20ish minute time trial, I think 20' tests are vastly overrated. True, but I am also one who believes knowing your exact CP at any given time is also highly overrated unless you're targeting a max 1 hour effort race or time trial. You don't need a test to know you can bump up future workout targets. Shooting too high or low on a future workout gives you information in the exact same way shooting too high or low on your next 20' test will. The more you do it, both adjusting future workouts and testing, the better you get at it. It is a learning process, but it's not to say testing is required to figure it out whether or not you are new to power. At least in my opinion...for whatever that's worth... If a training program is based on a 20 minute test, then it is the only test applicable to that training plan. That is why I'm doing it. Also, when comparing to previous tests to see improvement, a 20 minute test is the only thing applicable because that's what I did previously. So, to me, a 60 minute test is kind of pointless. The only thing I could see using it for would be bragging rights (that was meant to be ambiguous bragging rights...certainly not mine, maybe someday, but not right now) or for pacing, but as we can see by this thread, that's not exactly an exact science either. So for the purposes I need it for, the 20 minute test is the only applicable test. Looking back it did end up holding true that a retest was necessary. Although you guys said it didn't look like there was a change in FTP from the previous workouts posted, Sean made the point that the VO2 intervals weren't getting me anywhere near my max HR. And that was with me going higher than the plan said. If I had an accurate FTP, then those intervals would have been at a power level that would have got me to high 160's. That tells me that it was off and a retest needed. I'm not acting like I'm smart enough to have gotten this off the bat, it is all retrospective. I do pride my self in my 20-20 hindsight. Lots of stuff in there.....but a) programs aren't based around 20min tests. Programs are based around a threshold power. 20min tests are a way of approximating that. If from period to period you can find a better way of approximating threshold then you should. I think you started with 5 and 20'. You seem now just doing 20'. IMO, you are going backwards if this is the case. b) It is wrong that for all people Hr should get close to max during VO2intervals. My max on the bike is 170ish. I never come close to that during VO2 intervals. But it depends what you define as VO2 intervals. I do my 3-5min intervals at 110-114%. I never hit max, not even close. c) It's not obvious yet that your CP is way underestimated. One way to find out :-) |
| 2016-04-13 4:35 PM in reply to: 0 |
Veteran 1677 Houston, Texas | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Hey 3mar, there's a 40k TT in June (probably only an hour away from you) if you want a really good approximation Registration opens in 17 days. http://txttchampionship.com/index.php Edited by ligersandtions 2016-04-13 4:35 PM |
| 2016-04-13 4:58 PM in reply to: ligersandtions |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by ligersandtions Hey 3mar, there's a 40k TT in June (probably only an hour away from you) if you want a really good approximation Registration opens in 17 days. http://txttchampionship.com/index.php That will actually be an interesting race. You have a few less watts but very close watts/cda |
| 2016-04-13 6:13 PM in reply to: marcag |
| 1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Jason N You can absolutely get an idea of CP by workouts, but it requires specific workouts and experience which a lot of newbies don't have. Originally posted by AdventureBear Why is it you don't want to test again due to a race in May? You've improved based on that last "fun" workout. I'd suggest taking a 2-3 day recovery and do another 20' test and see what you can produce and get more accurate numbers. "Testing is training" so just sub for a threshold day. Hmm...then go fun do a 10 min brick and see how that feels. Or you could just do the threshold day adjusting for FTP given the power you would target for the 20' test. Testing is training, but training is also testing. Every single power workout you do is a test of fitness and should be viewed as a valid data point just like a test is. Unless you are targeting a 20ish minute time trial, I think 20' tests are vastly overrated. True, but I am also one who believes knowing your exact CP at any given time is also highly overrated unless you're targeting a max 1 hour effort race or time trial. You don't need a test to know you can bump up future workout targets. Shooting too high or low on a future workout gives you information in the exact same way shooting too high or low on your next 20' test will. The more you do it, both adjusting future workouts and testing, the better you get at it. It is a learning process, but it's not to say testing is required to figure it out whether or not you are new to power. At least in my opinion...for whatever that's worth... If a training program is based on a 20 minute test, then it is the only test applicable to that training plan. That is why I'm doing it. Also, when comparing to previous tests to see improvement, a 20 minute test is the only thing applicable because that's what I did previously. So, to me, a 60 minute test is kind of pointless. The only thing I could see using it for would be bragging rights (that was meant to be ambiguous bragging rights...certainly not mine, maybe someday, but not right now) or for pacing, but as we can see by this thread, that's not exactly an exact science either. So for the purposes I need it for, the 20 minute test is the only applicable test. Looking back it did end up holding true that a retest was necessary. Although you guys said it didn't look like there was a change in FTP from the previous workouts posted, Sean made the point that the VO2 intervals weren't getting me anywhere near my max HR. And that was with me going higher than the plan said. If I had an accurate FTP, then those intervals would have been at a power level that would have got me to high 160's. That tells me that it was off and a retest needed. I'm not acting like I'm smart enough to have gotten this off the bat, it is all retrospective. I do pride my self in my 20-20 hindsight. Lots of stuff in there.....but a) programs aren't based around 20min tests. Programs are based around a threshold power. 20min tests are a way of approximating that. If from period to period you can find a better way of approximating threshold then you should. I think you started with 5 and 20'. You seem now just doing 20'. IMO, you are going backwards if this is the case. b) It is wrong that for all people Hr should get close to max during VO2intervals. My max on the bike is 170ish. I never come close to that during VO2 intervals. But it depends what you define as VO2 intervals. I do my 3-5min intervals at 110-114%. I never hit max, not even close. c) It's not obvious yet that your CP is way underestimated. One way to find out :-) Yeah, but if the program is based around an approximation of FTP from a 20 minute test, we're back where we started from. I'll take next week and do both tests again. |
| 2016-04-13 6:21 PM in reply to: marcag |
| Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Jason N True, but I am also one who believes knowing your exact CP at any given time is also highly overrated unless you're targeting a max 1 hour effort race or time trial. I guess that depends on how you define "exact". Within 1%, no, not required. But if off 10%, that's way too much. IMO. But it all depends what you use your CP for. It's a lot more valuable than just pacing 1hr efforts. Correct...but one can infer CP based on workouts to much better than 10%. Im probably biased, but I don't see much value of knowing CP outside of one hour efforts. I think it can give you a good guess at what to target during race simulated training, but it's those training results that will actually guide your race strategy for a given distance or duration. Even if you did know your exact CP, it will still take experimentation in training to correlate to other distances...so again...IMHO...unless your targetting one hour...no reason to always pursue knowing it. |
| 2016-04-13 6:39 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by Jason N Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Jason N True, but I am also one who believes knowing your exact CP at any given time is also highly overrated unless you're targeting a max 1 hour effort race or time trial. I guess that depends on how you define "exact". Within 1%, no, not required. But if off 10%, that's way too much. IMO. But it all depends what you use your CP for. It's a lot more valuable than just pacing 1hr efforts. Correct...but one can infer CP based on workouts to much better than 10%. Im probably biased, but I don't see much value of knowing CP outside of one hour efforts. I think it can give you a good guess at what to target during race simulated training, but it's those training results that will actually guide your race strategy for a given distance or duration. Even if you did know your exact CP, it will still take experimentation in training to correlate to other distances...so again...IMHO...unless your targetting one hour...no reason to always pursue knowing it. Not everyone believes in metrics and I respect those that don't see the value in them, but if someone does see their value they don't mean anything with an inaccurate CP. TSS, CTL, IF...and many other useful metrics all mean nothing with an inaccurate CP. Some people believe in targeting specific adaptations but are completely uncalibrated when doing so. Edited by marcag 2016-04-13 6:40 PM |
| 2016-04-13 7:33 PM in reply to: marcag |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Jason N Not everyone believes in metrics and I respect those that don't see the value in them, but if someone does see their value they don't mean anything with an inaccurate CP. TSS, CTL, IF...and many other useful metrics all mean nothing with an inaccurate CP. Some people believe in targeting specific adaptations but are completely uncalibrated when doing so. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Jason N True, but I am also one who believes knowing your exact CP at any given time is also highly overrated unless you're targeting a max 1 hour effort race or time trial. I guess that depends on how you define "exact". Within 1%, no, not required. But if off 10%, that's way too much. IMO. But it all depends what you use your CP for. It's a lot more valuable than just pacing 1hr efforts. Correct...but one can infer CP based on workouts to much better than 10%. Im probably biased, but I don't see much value of knowing CP outside of one hour efforts. I think it can give you a good guess at what to target during race simulated training, but it's those training results that will actually guide your race strategy for a given distance or duration. Even if you did know your exact CP, it will still take experimentation in training to correlate to other distances...so again...IMHO...unless your targetting one hour...no reason to always pursue knowing it. I think the more trained you get the more value those metrics have. Once you start playing with the outer edges of training vs. doing too much they are invaluable. |
| 2016-04-13 10:44 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Jason N Not everyone believes in metrics and I respect those that don't see the value in them, but if someone does see their value they don't mean anything with an inaccurate CP. TSS, CTL, IF...and many other useful metrics all mean nothing with an inaccurate CP. Some people believe in targeting specific adaptations but are completely uncalibrated when doing so. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Jason N True, but I am also one who believes knowing your exact CP at any given time is also highly overrated unless you're targeting a max 1 hour effort race or time trial. I guess that depends on how you define "exact". Within 1%, no, not required. But if off 10%, that's way too much. IMO. But it all depends what you use your CP for. It's a lot more valuable than just pacing 1hr efforts. Correct...but one can infer CP based on workouts to much better than 10%. Im probably biased, but I don't see much value of knowing CP outside of one hour efforts. I think it can give you a good guess at what to target during race simulated training, but it's those training results that will actually guide your race strategy for a given distance or duration. Even if you did know your exact CP, it will still take experimentation in training to correlate to other distances...so again...IMHO...unless your targetting one hour...no reason to always pursue knowing it. I think the more trained you get the more value those metrics have. Once you start playing with the outer edges of training vs. doing too much they are invaluable. metrics are great, i use them. however, i think a lot gets lost in the tri world in the form of feel on the bike. You should be able to ride pretty close to your goal time by feel rather than with a PM. You should know when to push and when not to push, you should have your head up to make tactical moves. i can't imagine how some of you guys sit in your house and push the pedals staring at the PM. I do 1 workout a week that is intervals with my PM on a flat section of road. The other workouts are by feel (and when i'm riding with my club the feeling is OW). |
| 2016-04-14 5:30 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Jason N Not everyone believes in metrics and I respect those that don't see the value in them, but if someone does see their value they don't mean anything with an inaccurate CP. TSS, CTL, IF...and many other useful metrics all mean nothing with an inaccurate CP. Some people believe in targeting specific adaptations but are completely uncalibrated when doing so. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Jason N True, but I am also one who believes knowing your exact CP at any given time is also highly overrated unless you're targeting a max 1 hour effort race or time trial. I guess that depends on how you define "exact". Within 1%, no, not required. But if off 10%, that's way too much. IMO. But it all depends what you use your CP for. It's a lot more valuable than just pacing 1hr efforts. Correct...but one can infer CP based on workouts to much better than 10%. Im probably biased, but I don't see much value of knowing CP outside of one hour efforts. I think it can give you a good guess at what to target during race simulated training, but it's those training results that will actually guide your race strategy for a given distance or duration. Even if you did know your exact CP, it will still take experimentation in training to correlate to other distances...so again...IMHO...unless your targetting one hour...no reason to always pursue knowing it. I think the more trained you get the more value those metrics have. Once you start playing with the outer edges of training vs. doing too much they are invaluable. metrics are great, i use them. however, i think a lot gets lost in the tri world in the form of feel on the bike. You should be able to ride pretty close to your goal time by feel rather than with a PM. You should know when to push and when not to push, you should have your head up to make tactical moves. i can't imagine how some of you guys sit in your house and push the pedals staring at the PM. I do 1 workout a week that is intervals with my PM on a flat section of road. The other workouts are by feel (and when i'm riding with my club the feeling is OW). There is a big difference between being slave to a PM and having an accurate power meter with an accurate threshold and collecting useful data for immediate or future use. In the summer when doing long aerobic rides or when just riding with a local group, the Garmin goes in the jersey pocket. No need to look at it. But having accurate data after the ride has value. I get the fact some like to ride "naked", I truly get that. I do it all the time. What I don't get is the people that have a PM which is an extremely accurate device, but use it in a way they lose most of it's value. It's funny. Jason, I looked at your FB Challenge thread. 99% of the people in that thread say "I did 80TSS", "I did .87IF", "I went 80%"....I would be curious to know how many of those people have an accurate CP, because they are all quoting numbers based off CP. So I agree that 20min testing is not the be-all-end all of assessing CP (au contraire) but I do think there is value in an accurate CP. And we won't talk about the guys that ask "what % of my CP should I use". |
| 2016-04-14 7:24 AM in reply to: marcag |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint I'm in the market (soon) for a PM. My fear is.....................that I'd use it in a race and the data I used to set my targets would be flawed, somehow. |
| 2016-04-14 7:28 AM in reply to: nc452010 |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by nc452010 I'm in the market (soon) for a PM. My fear is.....................that I'd use it in a race and the data I used to set my targets would be flawed, somehow. And you know what you're currently doing is spot on? |
Everything is a learning process.| 2016-04-14 7:43 AM in reply to: marcag |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by dmiller5 There is a big difference between being slave to a PM and having an accurate power meter with an accurate threshold and collecting useful data for immediate or future use. In the summer when doing long aerobic rides or when just riding with a local group, the Garmin goes in the jersey pocket. No need to look at it. But having accurate data after the ride has value. I get the fact some like to ride "naked", I truly get that. I do it all the time. What I don't get is the people that have a PM which is an extremely accurate device, but use it in a way they lose most of it's value. It's funny. Jason, I looked at your FB Challenge thread. 99% of the people in that thread say "I did 80TSS", "I did .87IF", "I went 80%"....I would be curious to know how many of those people have an accurate CP, because they are all quoting numbers based off CP. So I agree that 20min testing is not the be-all-end all of assessing CP (au contraire) but I do think there is value in an accurate CP. And we won't talk about the guys that ask "what % of my CP should I use". Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Jason N Not everyone believes in metrics and I respect those that don't see the value in them, but if someone does see their value they don't mean anything with an inaccurate CP. TSS, CTL, IF...and many other useful metrics all mean nothing with an inaccurate CP. Some people believe in targeting specific adaptations but are completely uncalibrated when doing so. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Jason N True, but I am also one who believes knowing your exact CP at any given time is also highly overrated unless you're targeting a max 1 hour effort race or time trial. I guess that depends on how you define "exact". Within 1%, no, not required. But if off 10%, that's way too much. IMO. But it all depends what you use your CP for. It's a lot more valuable than just pacing 1hr efforts. Correct...but one can infer CP based on workouts to much better than 10%. Im probably biased, but I don't see much value of knowing CP outside of one hour efforts. I think it can give you a good guess at what to target during race simulated training, but it's those training results that will actually guide your race strategy for a given distance or duration. Even if you did know your exact CP, it will still take experimentation in training to correlate to other distances...so again...IMHO...unless your targetting one hour...no reason to always pursue knowing it. I think the more trained you get the more value those metrics have. Once you start playing with the outer edges of training vs. doing too much they are invaluable. metrics are great, i use them. however, i think a lot gets lost in the tri world in the form of feel on the bike. You should be able to ride pretty close to your goal time by feel rather than with a PM. You should know when to push and when not to push, you should have your head up to make tactical moves. i can't imagine how some of you guys sit in your house and push the pedals staring at the PM. I do 1 workout a week that is intervals with my PM on a flat section of road. The other workouts are by feel (and when i'm riding with my club the feeling is OW). Yeah, I look at power all the time and believe some think I'll be a slave to it, but managed to do fine on a 130 and a 175 mile ride last summer on a bike without it because of developing RPE along with it. The data afterward would have been interesting as HR was still available and was fairly high for that duration. Though it was easy to tell I was quite tired and took it easy for at least a few days. Pretty sure at least some of those in the FB group do know their CP or FTP pretty well, though don't know about everyone. I don't use TSS there as I'm not looking in general since the overall workload I'm doing is notably less than in past years, even though it's coming back. The singular values of rides this size doesn't say as much to me with everything being about an hour or so. Also don't use it as much due to FTP estimate likely being less accurate than I'd like. Descriptions are a little more vague, but still sure they're hard (or easy) when they need to be. Have some history with hard work to help with that. Still wondering how many watts/hr would be good though. |
| 2016-04-14 10:56 AM in reply to: brigby1 |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by nc452010 I'm in the market (soon) for a PM. My fear is.....................that I'd use it in a race and the data I used to set my targets would be flawed, somehow. And you know what you're currently doing is spot on? I know I'm going as hard as I can go (for the distance covered). That's all I can do. I'm being serious when I ask this........... If you're going as hard as you imagine you can go......and you look down at your PM's head unit.....and it says you should be at 10 "more" (insert appropriate metric, here)......what do you do? Using RPE, I can't recall ever being in a sprint and saying to myself that I needed to "pick it up a bit". |
| 2016-04-14 11:02 AM in reply to: nc452010 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by brigby1 I know I'm going as hard as I can go (for the distance covered). That's all I can do. I'm being serious when I ask this........... If you're going as hard as you imagine you can go......and you look down at your PM's head unit.....and it says you should be at 10 "more" (insert appropriate metric, here)......what do you do? Using RPE, I can't recall ever being in a sprint and saying to myself that I needed to "pick it up a bit". Originally posted by nc452010 I'm in the market (soon) for a PM. My fear is.....................that I'd use it in a race and the data I used to set my targets would be flawed, somehow. And you know what you're currently doing is spot on? I'd be more inclined to think that it would enable you to back off a bit at the start when you are feeling like superman. |
| 2016-04-14 11:04 AM in reply to: axteraa |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by axteraa Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by brigby1 I know I'm going as hard as I can go (for the distance covered). That's all I can do. I'm being serious when I ask this........... If you're going as hard as you imagine you can go......and you look down at your PM's head unit.....and it says you should be at 10 "more" (insert appropriate metric, here)......what do you do? Using RPE, I can't recall ever being in a sprint and saying to myself that I needed to "pick it up a bit". Originally posted by nc452010 I'm in the market (soon) for a PM. My fear is.....................that I'd use it in a race and the data I used to set my targets would be flawed, somehow. And you know what you're currently doing is spot on? I'd be more inclined to think that it would enable you to back off a bit at the start when you are feeling like superman. GREAT point. Thank you. |
| 2016-04-14 11:29 AM in reply to: nc452010 |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by axteraa GREAT point. Thank you. Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by brigby1 I know I'm going as hard as I can go (for the distance covered). That's all I can do. I'm being serious when I ask this........... If you're going as hard as you imagine you can go......and you look down at your PM's head unit.....and it says you should be at 10 "more" (insert appropriate metric, here)......what do you do? Using RPE, I can't recall ever being in a sprint and saying to myself that I needed to "pick it up a bit". Originally posted by nc452010 I'm in the market (soon) for a PM. My fear is.....................that I'd use it in a race and the data I used to set my targets would be flawed, somehow. And you know what you're currently doing is spot on? I'd be more inclined to think that it would enable you to back off a bit at the start when you are feeling like superman. It isn't that difficult to exhaust yourself. The learning part is more in getting the most out of that expenditure. |
| 2016-04-14 11:48 AM in reply to: brigby1 |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by brigby1 Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by axteraa GREAT point. Thank you. Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by brigby1 I know I'm going as hard as I can go (for the distance covered). That's all I can do. I'm being serious when I ask this........... If you're going as hard as you imagine you can go......and you look down at your PM's head unit.....and it says you should be at 10 "more" (insert appropriate metric, here)......what do you do? Using RPE, I can't recall ever being in a sprint and saying to myself that I needed to "pick it up a bit". Originally posted by nc452010 I'm in the market (soon) for a PM. My fear is.....................that I'd use it in a race and the data I used to set my targets would be flawed, somehow. And you know what you're currently doing is spot on? I'd be more inclined to think that it would enable you to back off a bit at the start when you are feeling like superman. It isn't that difficult to exhaust yourself. The learning part is more in getting the most out of that expenditure. We're still talking about a sprint triathlon, here, right???? |
| 2016-04-14 12:25 PM in reply to: nc452010 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: % of FTP for a Sprint Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by brigby1 We're still talking about a sprint triathlon, here, right???? Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by axteraa GREAT point. Thank you. Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by brigby1 I know I'm going as hard as I can go (for the distance covered). That's all I can do. I'm being serious when I ask this........... If you're going as hard as you imagine you can go......and you look down at your PM's head unit.....and it says you should be at 10 "more" (insert appropriate metric, here)......what do you do? Using RPE, I can't recall ever being in a sprint and saying to myself that I needed to "pick it up a bit". Originally posted by nc452010 I'm in the market (soon) for a PM. My fear is.....................that I'd use it in a race and the data I used to set my targets would be flawed, somehow. And you know what you're currently doing is spot on? I'd be more inclined to think that it would enable you to back off a bit at the start when you are feeling like superman. It isn't that difficult to exhaust yourself. The learning part is more in getting the most out of that expenditure. Yes. But a sprint triathlon is not that different from an iron distance race in that regard. They are both endurance events. |
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